497 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulicus]

Dude, just play the game and do what comes naturally to you. You've all but admitted the reason you're reluctant to do the US is because you want to play your Warden in Awakening (and presumably don't want to retcon him back alive) ... which more or less exactly lines up with a Warden, y'know, not wanting to die.

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...
If she wanted to do something good with the OGB, why would she say she doesn't wish to tell me about it? After she lets you know that she doesn't want to tell you the truth, it's hard to believe any explanation she gives you after that. And it's just hard for me to picture that Morrigan's grand scheme is something excessively selfless.

Simple explanation: it's a plot mystery that the writers don't want revealed just yet.
 
She does not say she doesn't want to tell you the truth. She said she doesn't want to reveal all of it. You can choose not to trust her of course, but I heard enough for me to be persuaded.
Perhaps she didn't tell you the purpose because she felt you might disagree. Or to keep you away from what might be a dangerous situation. Or simply because you would't understand. There could be a lot of reasons as to why she chose not to tell you everything.

And I don't expect her to do something excessively selfless, nor do I care tbh. If what she wants is power, then good for her. As logn as she doesn't do something epicaly stupid with it.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:16 .

[Ulicus]

Considering a romanced Morrigan makes it clear at the final gates that she WANTS to stay with you but /can't/ I think it's pretty clear that there's some "destiny" thing going on with the godbaby's upbringing.. and that likely factors in to what she can and can't tell you.

I mean, for all we know, she's got to stick to some prophecy that says the saviour of the world will never know its father.

Modifié par Ulicus, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:18 .

[Khavos]

Ulicus wrote...

Dude, just play the game and do what comes naturally to you. You've all but admitted the reason you're reluctant to do the US is because you want to play your Warden in Awakening (and presumably don't want to retcon him back alive) ... which more or less exactly lines up with a Warden, y'know, not wanting to die.

Eh, I wound up doing the US, and I was pretty pleased with it.  The only other real option I'd consider would be Loghain, but there's just no way that guy lives past the Landsmeet.  It'd be like not gutting Howe in his basement.  

The guy I feel sorry for is Fergus.  It's been a bad Blight for him.  Father, mother, brother, wife, son. 

[Khavos]

Ulicus wrote...

I mean, for all we know, she's got to stick to some prophecy that says the saviour of the world will never know its father.

I find it interesting that so many seem to view the untainted Old Gods as potentially good.  Aren't they the ones who, in uncorrupted form, taught humanity magic in order to coax them into marching on the Golden City, spawning the first Blight?  

[Ulicus]

Khavos wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Dude, just play the game and do what comes naturally to you. You've all but admitted the reason you're reluctant to do the US is because you want to play your Warden in Awakening (and presumably don't want to retcon him back alive) ... which more or less exactly lines up with a Warden, y'know, not wanting to die.

Eh, I wound up doing the US, and I was pretty pleased with it.  The only other real option I'd consider would be Loghain, but there's just no way that guy lives past the Landsmeet.  It'd be like not gutting Howe in his basement.

Cool, fair enough.

Khavos wrote...
The guy I feel sorry for is Fergus.  It's been a bad Blight for him.  Father, mother, brother, wife, son. 

I'm still a little put out that he didn't turn up as a ghoul. Having him show up at the end was a cop out... but I suppose they wanted to keep the Cousland line alive.

Khavos wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

I mean, for
all we know, she's got to stick to some prophecy that says the saviour
of the world will never know its father.

I find it
interesting that so many seem to view the untainted Old Gods as
potentially good.  Aren't they the ones who, in uncorrupted form,
taught humanity magic in order to coax them into marching on the Golden
City, spawning the first Blight?  

That's what the Chantry says.

The Chantry also says the Qunari are irrevokably evil. And that Templars need lyrium to manifest their talents. Etc. Fact is, it could really go either way, and whether or not you trust Morrigan depends entirely on the character and their outlook.

Modifié par Ulicus, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:25 .

[Sarah1281]

Khavos wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

I mean, for all we know, she's got to stick to some prophecy that says the saviour of the world will never know its father.

I find it interesting that so many seem to view the untainted Old Gods as potentially good.  Aren't they the ones who, in uncorrupted form, taught humanity magic in order to coax them into marching on the Golden City, spawning the first Blight?  

That's just Chantry propaganda. All we know is that it's rumored that Dumat taught them blood magic and they later decided to go to the Golden City. The Maker's the **** that supposedly turned them into darkspawn and unleashed them back on humanity which was quite unnecessary. If we're supposed to accept that the Old Gods are evil because they're the Maker's enemies...well, as far as I'm concerned this Maker appears to be evil himself and so we have no idea what the morality of the Old Gods are like or if they don't even care about us.

[Giggles_Manically]

Uthemriel was to god of beauty though.



He had festivals of music, food, and parties.

Not blood sacrifices.



Overall he seems the least nasty of them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Uthemriel was to god of beauty though.

He had festivals of music, food, and parties.
Not blood sacrifices.

Overall he seems the least nasty of them.

Hence why he is the weakest archdemon.

A chantry devoted PC would probably find the idea of reviving Old Gods to be heritical. My PC doesn't care much for what the Chantry says. Nor does he intend to worship large lizards. 
What he does feel the DR might bring however is an end to the blights that the Maker supposedely thought was a good idea to punish humanity with.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:30 .

[Giggles_Manically]

My mainPCs all just politely tell Morrigan no.



My Dalish didnt think that unleashing something from the Tevinter time frame was very nice.



My Mage, felt that the Maker, and the Old Gods were just powerful spirits and had, had enough pains with them to even consider brining another one into the world.



My Human Noble, was a chantry kid, so he was a little jaded on the topic so he didnt do it.



Overall though the whole GOD part puts me off. Morrigan may be powerful but there are somethings that should not be meddled in, and the paranormal is one of them.

[Sarah1281]

What makes it a god, anyway? The fact that the Tevinter worshipped it? The fact it's powerful? I don't believe it actually is one.

[Giggles_Manically]

I take the term God to mean that it is very powerful and exists on a tier above:

Demons, Spirits, or other things in the fade.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I call them "gods" for convenience's sake. But neither them nor the Maker fit my monotheist understanding of God.

[Khavos]

Well, I think I recall seeing a post from Gaider somewhere suggesting that Archdemon = Old God isn't 100% confirmed by anything, just the conventional wisdom.



And while it's true that the bit about the Old Gods inciting the first Blight is Chantry propaganda...still. Whatever's in that archdemon is extremely powerful, if not inherently evil. Nuclear power is extremely powerful and not inherently evil, and we certainly don't want just anyone having it. I guess Morrigan is my rogue state.

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

phaonica wrote...
If she wanted to do something good with the OGB, why would she say she doesn't wish to tell me about it? After she lets you know that she doesn't want to tell you the truth, it's hard to believe any explanation she gives you after that. And it's just hard for me to picture that Morrigan's grand scheme is something excessively selfless.

Simple explanation: it's a plot mystery that the writers don't want revealed just yet.

Well as much crap as I give Alistair for giving up the leadership role, despite that he's only like that because the writers wanted it that way, I feel obligated to consider Morrigan the same way. Sorry you're at the fate of the writers and all, but you are the way you are.

She does not say she doesn't want to tell you the truth. She said she doesn't want to reveal all of it. You can choose not to trust her of course, but I heard enough for me to be persuaded. 

I imagine it could be easier to be convinced if she is your LI, because you get to know her better and it may be easier to trust her. I don't know her as an LI so I don't know how my thoughts on the subject would be different.

[phaonica]

Khavos wrote...

Eh, I wound up doing the US, and I was pretty pleased with it. 

It's a good death, I think.  A very good one.

Modifié par phaonica, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

phaonica wrote...
Well as much crap as I give Alistair for giving up the leadership role, despite that he's only like that because the writers wanted it that way, I feel obligated to consider Morrigan the same way. Sorry you're at the fate of the writers and all, but you are the way you are.

Except this is not really a character trait, but something bigger than Morrigan.
But yea sure, when playing, you want reasons to be on the ground. 

I imagine it could be easier to be convinced if she is your LI, because you get to know her better and it may be easier to trust her. I don't know her as an LI so I don't know how my thoughts on the subject would be different.

I personally was equally persuaded and convinced. But out of all decisions, this is the one that factured emotions the most and I am not sure my PC, who considers himself a rationalist, likes it that much. 

But yes, Morrigan as an LI generated trust from my part towards her. But that's only me. You could still romance her and not trust her, especially since she does not appear at her best in the DR (it was supposed to be different when Morrigan is romanced but it was cut). 

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Remember the whole DR thing was budget cut; so you have this neutral one size fits all Morrigan and scene. Then the whole plothammer thing. I can think of a lot of reasons Morrigan would not tell the Warden why she has to leave or why she can't reveal to him the whole plan. What if the Old God kills her like an accelerated version of the taint. Would a Warden in love with her agree to do it if he knew the women he loved was going to die? Would he rather die; than let her die to save you and something she feels very strongly about. It comes down do who you trust and what you believe in. The way I looked at it was. I can die and end this Blight, or I could live, end this Blight, and possibly help end the next two Blights.

[Ulicus]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Uthemriel was to god of beauty though.

He had festivals of music, food, and parties.
Not blood sacrifices.

Overall he seems the least nasty of them.

He seems to roughly correspond with Apollo insofar as his role in the pantheon/Tevinter society is concerned. Which is pretty cool.... though Apollo was a right **** a lot of the time. Most pagan gods were. I imagine the Old Gods aren't too different.

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Remember the whole DR thing was budget cut; so you have this neutral one size fits all Morrigan and scene.

Wait, really? This
is the first I've heard of this. Interesting. Was it supposed to play
out much more differently depending on your reputation/influence with
her?

Modifié par Ulicus, 29 juillet 2010 - 11:51 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Friendly or Romancing Wardens would have gotten a much nicer version then we got. At least according to Gaider. However to know this you must metagame, all you are left with is the cold and worst salesperson in ferelden morri.

[Zjarcal]

Ulicus wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Remember the whole DR thing was budget cut; so you have this neutral one size fits all Morrigan and scene.

Wait, really? This
is the first I've heard of this. Interesting. Was it supposed to play
out much more differently depending on your reputation/influence with
her?

Here's a glimpse into "the might have been" that was...

http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

Modifié par Zjarcal, 30 juillet 2010 - 01:10 .

[TJPags]

Zjarcal wrote...

That depends on how you play your Warden.

I hate it when people say that Grey Wardens "should fulfill their duty and do the sacrifice". Sorry, but considering we didn't enlist in the Wardens voluntarily (it's either be a Warden or die in almost every Origin) I never ever felt that this was "my duty". Therefore, if there's a way out, I'll take it.

Is that a selfish mentality? Perhaps, but I really hate this whole duty thing. If being a Warden is something my character wanted from the beginning then that'd be a different case. As it is, I was either conscripted, pulled away from my dying parents (where I would've preferred to stay and die with them), corrupted with the taint, etc.

What's worse, everything about the organization is kept a secret to you until you complete the Joining. I realize why they do it (otherwise no one would join), but it still a bitter pill to swallow.

As for reasons why the DR is a "non-cowardly" option (are you serious?), I think about this way. If someone had to die to kill the Archdemon and there was no other way to do it, I'd be willing to step up since we're gonna die either way if we don't kill the bloody thing. But if there's a way to kill it and live, why on earth would I not choose that option. It's not like I think the DR is the "terrible" thing everyone paints it to be. I like Morrigan and trust her enough to believe it won't spell doom. And even if it does, at least I'll still be alive to fight it back in case it happens.

This sounds like it came from my mouth - except much more eloquently than I could ever say it.

Just to add-  as a Warden, my job is to stop the Blight - my duty is NOT necesarily to DIE doing it.  Why die when I don't have to???  That really makes no sense to me.

[errant_knight]

I can never let Loghain live. I just think his crimes deserve death, so that's what he gets. From a roleplaying point of view, I don't feel like Riordan gives you enough reason to spare him, and even if he came right out and spilled the beans, I'd still kill him. He killed the king, and my best friend or LI is standing right there expecting justice for the man who was like a father to him, and the only real friends he ever had. No way I could do that to him, especially since I agree. Loghain shouldn't die a hero, he should just die.

Modifié par errant_knight, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:13 .

[TJPags]

errant_knight wrote...

I can never let Loghain live. I just think his crimes deserve death, so that's what he gets. From a roleplaying point of view, I don't feel like Riordan gives you enough reason to spare him, and even if he came right out and spilled the beans, I'd still kill him. He killed the king, and my best friend or LI is standing right there expecting justice for the man who was like a father to him, and the only real friends he ever had. No way I could do that to him, especially since I agree. Loghain shouldn't die a hero, he should just die.

I agree.  There's really no reason to spare him at all, except to do it for the goof, or to try something different.

That said, Alistair is not my best friend - in any playthrough - nor is he my love interest, so his feelings never impact  me.

[Zjarcal]

TJPags wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

That depends on how you play your Warden.

I hate it when people say that Grey Wardens "should fulfill their duty and do the sacrifice". Sorry, but considering we didn't enlist in the Wardens voluntarily (it's either be a Warden or die in almost every Origin) I never ever felt that this was "my duty". Therefore, if there's a way out, I'll take it.

Is that a selfish mentality? Perhaps, but I really hate this whole duty thing. If being a Warden is something my character wanted from the beginning then that'd be a different case. As it is, I was either conscripted, pulled away from my dying parents (where I would've preferred to stay and die with them), corrupted with the taint, etc.

What's worse, everything about the organization is kept a secret to you until you complete the Joining. I realize why they do it (otherwise no one would join), but it still a bitter pill to swallow.

As for reasons why the DR is a "non-cowardly" option (are you serious?), I think about this way. If someone had to die to kill the Archdemon and there was no other way to do it, I'd be willing to step up since we're gonna die either way if we don't kill the bloody thing. But if there's a way to kill it and live, why on earth would I not choose that option. It's not like I think the DR is the "terrible" thing everyone paints it to be. I like Morrigan and trust her enough to believe it won't spell doom. And even if it does, at least I'll still be alive to fight it back in case it happens.

This sounds like it came from my mouth - except much more eloquently than I could ever say it.

Just to add-  as a Warden, my job is to stop the Blight - my duty is NOT necesarily to DIE doing it.  Why die when I don't have to???  That really makes no sense to me.

Glad to know I was able to "eloquate" your feelings! 

@errant_knight:

I sort of agree. It's really hard for me to spare Loghain. I actually like his character and I believe that his motives weren't as malicious as everyone paints them to be. That said, what makes it hard for me to spare him is the slavery issue. The betrayal of the King (he was a righteous idiot) and the lies spread about the Wardens don't bother me that much. But allowing slavery and showing very little remorse about it when confronted about the issue, really makes me think twice about whether to spare him or not.

That said, the way I play all of my characters is that they believe in giving everyone a second chance. It's the reason why I like Leliana and Zevran so much, two characters with a very dark past who are now making things right. I believe that Loghain should be given a second chance as well, especially given the things he did in the past.

Alistair's reactions don't have a major influence in my decision. I understand his rage, the same rage a HN would feel towards Howe (though that's different since Howe's betrayal was much more personal), but I still don't let it influence me. If he decides to leave the party, that's his decision.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:34 .