26 réponses à ce sujet

[Alexia89]

Or will you be making us keep them the same to keep the unique look of the character intact?

[Valente11]

I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that we won't be able to. Chances are that companions are just as customizable as the first game.

[Zlarm]

I really hope the DA2 team have the good sense not to go the ME2 route on this atleast....

[andar91]

Valente11 wrote...

I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that we won't be able to. Chances are that companions are just as customizable as the first game.

This.

[AntiChri5]

We wont be able to because Bioware hates us and hates making money.

[CalJones]

I think it's down to ME2 - you could dress your companions how you wanted in ME, but in ME2, they kept their own armour or outfit for the whole game (which was silly as you had Miranda going into a near vacuum in a catsuit and breather mask).

But, have to bear in mind the DA team does things differently.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Catering to the desire that each character have a distinct look that persists under all circumstances is a huge threat to verisimilitude.

Clothing should change how people look. And people should wear clothing appropriate to the situation.

[stevej713]

I don't care, as long as I can customize my stuff as much as I want.

I'm more interested in being able to change your companions' specialties, like changing Alistair from DPS to Tank.  Very useful stuff, there.

Modifié par stevej713, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:04 .

[Alexia89]

Artists take pride in there work....when you see a great looking character like Morrigan or Thane from ME2 running around in bulky armor and a face mask i can see why they would want to lock there appearance. Dragon age 2 has a nice artstyle...it looks nice but worries me a little. Them doing it for ME 2 did cross my mind

Modifié par Alexia89, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:05 .

[Shepard Lives]

filaminstrel wrote...

Well, part of me wonders this as well. They've said characters have their own unique rigs, I believe, which I dunno is possible unless they've changed the underlying system (otherwise their "rig" would conform to the armor they're wearing) or unless they've locked the characters into unique armors.

Unless I've missed on important info, which I likely haven't, the devs have only said that males and females have entirely different rigs. Meaning, no more man-shoulders, gorilla walk and ape-hands for the ladies.

They didn't say each character was going to have a different rig.

[Haexpane]

The hope is yes. If they did remove it, I'd probably not buy DA2 until it hits budget price

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alexia89 wrote...

Artists take pride in there work.

Their pride shouldn't override my gameplay.

[Brockololly]

Yeah, its that there are new female specific animation rigs versus Origins where the male and females had one rig.

There was a big thread in the Origins forum several months ago which went back and forth on the idea of giving companions a fixed look, like Morrigan or going the ME2 route of limiting the armor customization. Here is that thread- Gaider posted a bunch in it- here some of his quotes on the topic:

David Gaider wrote...

There are definitely advantages to having a "set" model for companion characters, that's true. They acquirea unique look that does not need to be made "one size fits all" with the regular armor sets, and thus can look different from everyone else in the game. That makes them more visually interesting. At the same
time, there's a drawback with regards to less customization.

I doubt the idea is going to get much support here, since the prevailing opinion is usually "freedom=all" -- but I don't think more interesting-looking companions is necessarily a bad thing, so long as  other sorts of customization are allowed elsewhere. It's certainly something to consider.

David Gaider wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...
My mind is very open, and that's why I enjoy both western RPGs and JRPGs more or less equally. That said, there are plenty JRPG developers in Japan. We don't really need Bioware to suddenly start doing the same kind of game, when you're well known and proficent in doing something different (and actually pretty rare in the market nowadays), do we?

You claim your mind is open, but it seems there's no middle ground. If we were to undertake such a feature asset companion models, it would no doubt be because the advantages were worthwhile... and that would not  mean all customization and dialogue options immediately vanish. It is  not one extreme or the other, with nothing inbetween, much as some people would like to claim.

Honestly, if the definition for a "true RPG" is so narrow that every feature of it must be strictly adhered to simply because it's traditional then I don't think it's a very useful genre.

But it's a theoretical debate. I'm not the lead designer and the decision wouldn't be mine, so I'm not going to start hashing it out here. I think there are plenty of players who like RPG's, however, who would be more than happy to see some changes if it meant some improvements in the game overall -- even if that meant having to endure the mass suicides on the forums. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

David Gaider wrote...

corebit wrote...
Compared to DA:O and even ME1, ME2 companion customization is NON-EXISTENT.

Perhaps, but it doesn't necessarily have to work in the exact same way, either. Aset model doesn't have to mean customization is completely removed outside of their look -- and while some people may not like the idea of
such a set look all I'm suggesting (as Maria is) is that there are benefits to be had just like there are drawbacks to having companions use generic armor models. Customization is not win/win on all fronts.

David Gaider wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

Sure, there can be a middle ground, but DA doesn't exactly offer an immense wealth of armor models already (expecially in the non-massive armor department), if even less resources would be dedicated to customization in order to give each character their "style" (that is, instead, plenty characterized with dialogue, expressiveness, writing, and such, and yes, you can interpret this as a personal compliment ), there wouldn't be much customizability left.

Now, if Bioware gave each character their initial costume like they did with Morrigan, but still allowed them to wear a wide range of generic armor models, then it would be quite a lot better. But we're talking about putting more resources into it, not less

Consider this: one of the reasons you don't get a lot of variety in the armor models is because they are required to fit all body types. More concentrated use of armor likely means more variation overall.

Also, I'm not sure that anyone is necessarily suggesting that the player character themselves be limited to one type of armor or appearance. All I remember Maria suggesting was that the followers could have such -- and she is correct in her assumption that this would likely work to give  them a unique look that distinguished them from the player and from  other opponents you'd encounter wearing the same armor.

As I  recall, part of the benefit is also that the footprint of a model that  doesn't use multiple armor "pieces" is much smaller -- which could  potentially allow for more creatures on-screen at one time. Which can  certainly add more variety to the combats you face, not to mention the  environments the party enters.

All I ever suggested was that  there were trade-offs with such a consideration, and it isn't solely a  "customization vs. appearance" thing, either. If we were to go down that path (and that's if) that doesn't mean we have to do it the same as a JRPG or Mass Effect, nor do I think anyone was suggesting that we  should.

So yeah, I wouldn't mind it if every companion had one or 2 unique outfits like how Morrigan had her robes. But at the same time, I'd prefer it if they had that unique look in ADDITION to being able to play armor dress up. 

Its my guess that its likely one or the other though, given that the models with armor customization probably take up more memory and space in the engine, like David mentioned in one of the quotes above.

But then again, limiting the companions to a certain look likely means cutting back on loot and inventory too, since you wouldn't need any on the companion characters, no?

Modifié par Brockololly, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:41 .

[Grommash94]

I believe someone mentioned after ComicCon that there is still an inventory in DA2..but, that doesn't necessarily mean that we won't be able to dress companions as we see fit, I suppose.

[DA Trap Star]

This would be a gamekiller for me if they did this...

[Dave of Canada]

I'd like the armor system of Dragon Age but with unique touches to each piece to give each character a unique feel. For example, a Templar party member might have his plate armor adorned with symboles of the Maker - even though the same plate won't look the same on say.. the Dwarf who prefers psychotic murder, who decided to cover his plate with markings of blood.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd like the armor system of Dragon Age but with unique touches to each piece to give each character a unique feel. For example, a Templar party member might have his plate armor adorned with symboles of the Maker - even though the same plate won't look the same on say.. the Dwarf who prefers psychotic murder, who decided to cover his plate with markings of blood.

And that's not a terrible idea.  We already allow that the armour is a different shape depending who is wearing it to accommodate both men and women, or both humans and dwarves.

Though that does increase the number of models or textures they need.  It would probably mean we'd have fewer different types of armour available to us.

[Haexpane]

Gaider wrote...



There are definitely advantages to having a "set" model for companion characters, that's true. They acquirea unique look that does not need to be made "one size fits all" with the regular armor sets, and thus can look different from everyone else in the game. That makes them more visually interesting. At the same

time, there's a drawback with regards to less customization.



I doubt the idea is going to get much support here, since the prevailing opinion is usually "freedom=all" -- but I don't think more interesting-looking companions is necessarily a bad thing, so long as other sorts of customization are allowed elsewhere. It's certainly something to consider.

The thing is you can have both. It's been done before.



Summoner 1 is an example of a BG2/KOTOR style game. Real time w/. pause, party based, party members have real time full customization of gear.



Party members also have distinct look and items that only work on them, but can also share certain items.



Not surprisingly, Summoner 1 is my fav PS2 RPG

[Sylvius the Mad]

Even in Baldur's Gate the characters all has a distinctive look because of their unique colour-schemes.

And then, even better, those themselves were customisable, so you could change those distinctive looks to suit your preferences.

[Haexpane]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Even in Baldur's Gate the characters all has a distinctive look because of their unique colour-schemes.
And then, even better, those themselves were customisable, so you could change those distinctive looks to suit your preferences.

The polar opposite is FFX where you can change out Tidu's flower wrist band for a space flower wristband

[dewcrowe]

I don't know why but I have worried about this a bit aswell. I just hope you get alot of different armor sets.

[Maverick827]

The fixed outfit motif is fine iff there are quite a few outfits; I would say at least three "tiers" for each companion, and said "upgrades" are acquired through meaningful in-game methods (companion quests, boss kills, etc.).

They don't have to be terribly different, so this shouldn't be asking too much.

[dewcrowe]

Maverick827 wrote...

The fixed outfit motif is fine iff there are quite a few outfits; I would say at least three "tiers" for each companion, and said "upgrades" are acquired through meaningful in-game methods (companion quests, boss kills, etc.).
They don't have to be terribly different, so this shouldn't be asking too much.

I don't know I would be kinda bumed if they didn't have a different look to them.