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[TheMadCat]

Saibh wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Three out of nine, actually. Overstate much?

But those three have been the last three full games, why wouldn't it be safe to assume the trend will continue?

Wait, are we talking about how many BioWare games have romances? I thought they were talking about companions that are romancable.

Because all of the their major games except Baldur's Gate have romances, no?

They were talking about how a larger number of companions are becoming romance options and how more in your face it's become over their recent games compared to their previous games where the game had a total of 2 or 3 options for both genders and was more subtle but deep. 

[TheMadCat]

Damn double post.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 02 août 2010 - 07:10 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

TheMadCat wrote...

They were talking about how a larger number of companions are becoming romance options and how more in your face it's become over their recent games compared to their previous games where the game had a total of 2 or 3 options for both genders and was more subtle but deep. 

Hmm.  OK, here's a numerical summary.

BG2 and ToB: 3 for males + 1 for females = 4 LIs
NWN: 2 for males + 2 for females = 4 LIs
NWN: HoTU: 2 for males + 1 for females = 3 LIs (so 6 total in the NWN franchise since Aribeth is in NWN and HoTU)
KOTOR: 1 for males + 2 for females (arguably including Juhani) = 3 LIs
JE: 1 for males + 2 for males and females = 3 LIs
ME1: 1 for males + 1 for females + 1 for both = 3 LIs
DA:O: 2 for males (arguably including Anora) + 1 for females + 2 for both = 5 LIs
ME2: 3 for males + 3 for females + (arguably Kelly for both) = 7 LIs

Generally, 3-4 LIs has been the pattern since BG2 with no particular trend of increasing.  The only exception is ME2, which had three heterosexual love interests for each gender of Shepard, plus Kelly as a fling for both.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 03 août 2010 - 12:33 .

[TheMadCat]

There has been a slight upward trend since BioWare began the almost pure cinematic and story route in KoToR (Why count Juhani though? There wasn't a whole lot there given the fact it was cut). So 2, 3, 3, 4, 7 which looks like an upward trend to me, after all never claimed it was a dramatic increase just that it's been getting larger.

[TheMadCat]

filaminstrel wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Saibh wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Three out of nine, actually. Overstate much?

But those three have been the last three full games, why wouldn't it be safe to assume the trend will continue?

Wait, are we talking about how many BioWare games have romances? I thought they were talking about companions that are romancable.

Because all of the their major games except Baldur's Gate have romances, no?

They were talking about how a larger number of companions are becoming romance options and how more in your face it's become over their recent games compared to their previous games where the game had a total of 2 or 3 options for both genders and was more subtle but deep. 

Uh no I'm pretty sure "three out of nine" was a response to the prior poster's contention that "every character in Dragon Age tells you that they'e into you at some point." Nine being the amount of companions available, three the amount of romance options for any one character.

Indeed they were, forgot to add the I think part. What can I say, been a long day and it was along the lines of what I was thinking.

[Manou1]

Personally, I'd prefer one really well-written romance that spans the length of the game and really adds to the story.  BioWare's games always have these little romance stories that just don't matter.  They're quick, ridiculously over the top, and usually have absolutely no impact on the game at all.  What's the point?

I understand choice.  Truly, I do.  But I much prefer a really great story to a less great story that lets me be a lesbian, or whatever.

I agree.

[Sable Rhapsody]

filaminstrel wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


NWN: 2 for males + 2 for females = 4 LIs
NWN: HoTU: 1 for males + 1 for females = 2 LIs (so 6 total in the NWN franchise)

Are you counting.. Sharwyn and Daelan?

Also, couldn't you kind of romance Aribeth in HotU?

Yes, I'm counting them.  For the same reasons why I counted Juhani and Kelly.  And you're right, I forgot about Aribeth in HoTU.

[StreetlightEagle]

Ok, in my original post I may have exaggerated a bit in terms of the amount of romancable characters there are. But still, my point stands. Romance has become a much more important part of RPG's than it ever should have. If you want to have a relationship you can do that in real life, however if you want to cleave the heads off darkspawn... you cannot. I do enjoy the character building in BW games but that shouldn't be mainly about love interests. I do not want to play glorified dating sims.

[TheMadCat]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Ok, in my original post I may have exaggerated a bit in terms of the amount of romancable characters there are. But still, my point stands. Romance has become a much more important part of RPG's than it ever should have. If you want to have a relationship you can do that in real life, however if you want to cleave the heads off darkspawn... you cannot. I do enjoy the character building in BW games but that shouldn't be mainly about love interests. I do not want to play glorified dating sims.

See, now this reasoning I find a bit stupid. So because it's something we can do in real life it means it shouldn't be a part of the game? To me good stories and RPG's are a reflection of ourselves and our world, they allow us to feel a real connection by letting us read or do what we feel we'd do if we were put in such a situation. Love, romance, and sex are huge parts of our lives, why shouldn't they also be a big part in a world and culture and story that is based off ours? I give you the fact BioWare has been more over the top and cheesy with their romances, but I don't think they need to be excluded simply because it's also something we can do in real life. Personally I think BioWare just needs to make them better.

[Malanek]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
DA:O: 1 for males + 1 for females + 2 for both = 4 LIs

There was also Anora for males. Didn't have all that much content but hey I liked her.

[StreetlightEagle]

TheMadCat wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Ok, in my original post I may have exaggerated a bit in terms of the amount of romancable characters there are. But still, my point stands. Romance has become a much more important part of RPG's than it ever should have. If you want to have a relationship you can do that in real life, however if you want to cleave the heads off darkspawn... you cannot. I do enjoy the character building in BW games but that shouldn't be mainly about love interests. I do not want to play glorified dating sims.

See, now this reasoning I find a bit stupid. So because it's something we can do in real life it means it shouldn't be a part of the game? To me good stories and RPG's are a reflection of ourselves and our world, they allow us to feel a real connection by letting us read or do what we feel we'd do if we were put in such a situation. Love, romance, and sex are huge parts of our lives, why shouldn't they also be a big part in a world and culture and story that is based off ours? I give you the fact BioWare has been more over the top and cheesy with their romances, but I don't think they need to be excluded simply because it's also something we can do in real life. Personally I think BioWare just needs to make them better.

Yeah, maybe I didn't make myself clear actually. I didn't really mean that romances shouldn't be in because you can have relationships in real life, more that fanboys/girls on this forum latch on to the NPC's as if game romances are substitutes for real life romances which I find a little creepy. One of the first things a lot of people ask about when a new BW game is announced is the romance options and the fact we even have stock phrases such as "LI's" on this forum does depress me. Even though I didn't make it very clear, my original point is that I don't want this series to be all about which characters your PC can and can't have sex with. 

[Tirigon]

Saibh wrote...

Hate it.

Really. Really. Hate it.

If you hate the guy, you hate the romance, and you have no other options.

Remember Anomen?

THIS. THIS SO MUCH.


I mean, if it was Liara that´s your romance option, and if she´s available for female char, I wouldn´t mind, but chances are that I would NOT like the character of the only LI.

And even if I´d be lucky, others would be screwed then.


Therefore, we need MORE, not less, options.

[AlanC9]

TheMadCat wrote...

They were talking about how a larger number of companions are becoming romance options and how more in your face it's become over their recent games compared to their previous games where the game had a total of 2 or 3 options for both genders and was more subtle but deep. 

I'm not sure I'd classify the BG2 romances as subtle. Which was a good thing -- I though the catfights were fun.

And yes, the ratio of romanceable to non-romanceable characters is higher than in BG2. But there's no trend here. HotU had a higher ratio than DA or ME, assuming you don't count the characters that don't last past chapter 1. 100% of the females present after chapter 2 are romanceable for a male character, and 50% of the males for a female.

Nowadays I suppose people would be demanding a Deekin romance....

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 août 2010 - 12:29 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Yeah, maybe I didn't make myself clear actually. I didn't really mean that romances shouldn't be in because you can have relationships in real life, more that fanboys/girls on this forum latch on to the NPC's as if game romances are substitutes for real life romances which I find a little creepy. One of the first things a lot of people ask about when a new BW game is announced is the romance options and the fact we even have stock phrases such as "LI's" on this forum does depress me. Even though I didn't make it very clear, my original point is that I don't want this series to be all about which characters your PC can and can't have sex with. 

Does it really weird you out so much that people are interested in romances?  It's true of all other fiction--just look at fandom shipping wars for books, movies, TV shows, etc.  And in real life, we as a species are fascinated by romantic relationships, both our own and others'.  Romance is a genre of fiction in and of itself.  Our media is saturated with gossip and advice on love and sex.  And this is far from a modern phenomenon--take a peek at the sex museum in Amsterdam.  Human fascination with love, sex, and romance is as old as dirt.  Why shouldn't that same fascination apply to video games?

Malanek999 wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
DA:O: 1 for males + 1 for females + 2 for both = 4 LIs

There was also Anora for males. Didn't have all that much content but hey I liked her.

Duly noted.  She's a little iffy, but I suppose since my original list included everything but the one-off fliings, she counts.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 03 août 2010 - 12:32 .

[TheMadCat]

AlanC9 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

They were talking about how a larger number of companions are becoming romance options and how more in your face it's become over their recent games compared to their previous games where the game had a total of 2 or 3 options for both genders and was more subtle but deep. 

I'm not sure I'd classify the BG2 romances as subtle. Which was a good thing -- I though the catfights were fun.

And yes, the ratio of romanceable to non-romanceable characters is higher than in BG2. But there's no trend here. HotU had a higher ratio than DA or ME, assuming you don't count the characters that don't last past chapter 1. 100% of the females present after chapter 2 are romanceable for a male character, and 50% of the males for a female.

Nowadays I suppose people would be demanding a Deekin romance....

Who wouldn't want a Deekin romance, I mean come on....

But yeah, I tend to separate games before KoToR from KoToR and beyond, it really was a completely different style they used and audience they targeted from there on out. Obviously you have points there, but like I said from a personal standpoint I feel it's best to seperate them from most discussions. No reason to stick apples next to oranges.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


NWN: 2 for males + 2 for females = 4 LIs

Hmm, for female PCs, I can only remember Aarin Gend (sp?).  Who was the other one?

Also, you could also say there were 3 romances for male PCs: Aribeth, Sharwyn, and the elven cleric companion (can't remember the name).

Regarding romances, I've said this before and I'll say it again: as long as romances are just an option that you don't have to take, there's really no reason to complain about the option being there for those who do want it.

Modifié par Riona45, 03 août 2010 - 01:19 .

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Are you counting.. Sharwyn and Daelan?

Also, couldn't you kind of romance Aribeth in HotU?

Yes, I'm counting them.  For the same reasons why I counted Juhani and Kelly.  And you're right, I forgot about Aribeth in HoTU.

How was Daelan a romance? 

[Riona45]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Ok, in my original post I may have exaggerated a bit in terms of the amount of romancable characters there are. But still, my point stands. Romance has become a much more important part of RPG's than it ever should have.

I have the feeling BW-style romance in RPGs in general are not as ubiquitous as you are making them out to be.  And like it or not, BW has observed that their romances are a popular part of their games.

Modifié par Riona45, 03 août 2010 - 01:30 .

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Our media is saturated with gossip and advice on love and sex.  And this is far from a modern phenomenon--take a peek at the sex museum in Amsterdam.  Human fascination with love, sex, and romance is as old as dirt.  Why shouldn't that same fascination apply to video games?

There's a sex museum in New York City as well.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Are you counting.. Sharwyn and Daelan?

Also, couldn't you kind of romance Aribeth in HotU?

Yes, I'm counting them.  For the same reasons why I counted Juhani and Kelly.  And you're right, I forgot about Aribeth in HoTU.

How was Daelan a romance? 

Daelan was kind of like the elven cleric lady.  He had a semi-romance, not as well-developed as Aribeth or Aarin Gend's, but still there.  Though I've never personally played it.  I played a male character for the original NWN campaign.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


Daelan was kind of like the elven cleric lady.  He had a semi-romance, not as well-developed as Aribeth or Aarin Gend's, but still there.  Though I've never personally played it.  I played a male character for the original NWN campaign.

Hmm.  I played a female my first time through, took Daelan the whole time, and yet I never noticed even an inkling of romance. Not even a "No thanks, you're nice and all but I'm not interested."  Granted, I wanted to romance him, but couldn't.  Now I'm wondering if I missed something!

Oh well...his HotU epilogue mentions him taking a barbarian wife anyway.