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[elikal71]

Dragon Age a critical view on the absence of light



SPOILERS OF THE FIRST HALF OF THE GAME!!!!


One of the forming experiences of my gaming career was playing Ultima IV The Quest of the Avatar. You see that I am one of the older gamers. Ultima IV and Ultima in general was one of the decisive moments for me as gamer. The idea of Ultima IV was not to kill as much as possible to gain XP and to loot everything not nailed down, but on the contrary. It was a tale about discovering yourself and to this day it is one of the few of the great RPGs without any supervillain or horde of evil to slay.

When I started playing Dragon Age, I played all starter races/classes just to see them, and I can say they are all excellent. I found the game quite great in the first 2-3 days, but with every passing hour now, I feel less and less connected, less and less inclined to continue, so I allowed myself a break to contemplate why this is so? All reviews are full of praise, 9 of 10 or even 10 of 10, it is said to be THE RPG at Eurogamer.de. But truth be told, at this moment I start to have doubts about this. I am at the point where I finished the stories of the Mages Tower, of Red Cliff, the Urn of Ashes and I now met the Dalish. The game informs me I have solved about 30%.

I am at the point pondering to give the game up, and that is something VERY disturbing, given I rarely ever give up on a RPG, let alone one crafted with such great story telling. So why?

Now in the Paragon of Fantasy, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, one of the darkest and depressing parts is Moria. The Dwarfs all failed, there is a Balrog on the loose and the good old Gandalf dies. All seems to be lost. But after the darkness of Moria comes the light of Lothlorien. Even if it is more a sad remain. That is what IMO makes the darkness bearable, makes it stand out, it has a counterpoint. And so far in DA it seems to me I always got from bad to worse.


I have stated elsewhere that I don't get along with any of the companions. Since I let Blood Magic use to save the kid in Red Cliff, Alistair stays at +12 and he stopped telling me anything personal. Morrigan is a misantrope, Leilana way too dreamy and disattached from reality, Zevran is so so, entertaining but not really emotionally connected to anything, and now evern Wynne has started to nerve me with morals like "you can have no relationship, you have ALL duty as a Warden". So I end up carrying a party of people, to NONE of whom I feel like a friend. They are with me for the need. That's it. Ok, I forced a closeness to Zevren, for the sole purpose of trying out how the gay relationship works out, but in real, I never would do it. He IS a murderer after all. What bugs me with these people, none of them really is on my side. I value the try of Bioware to make them personalities, and they sure have believable ones and well told ones, but I don't like the experience. I am all surrounded by people who stick to me and I have zero reason why. Alistair should by all right lead as Warden senior, Morrigan seems to have no feel of a greater good by her survival, and so on. They all just are with me to have a cheap taxi to drive to to "see the world". I never feel they are my companions or even my friends. All have ratings -10 to +15, save Zevran, where as said I forced the issue. So there is no cheering, no nice party feeling anywhere in my group. They are people for the use of more swords. End of story. And that is quite sad.


The same goes with the world. Good riddance, what a place. I understand Bioware wanted to make a darker world, but I tell you I will surely NOT buy a second RPG in this world setting. Sorry, but it's not the darkness, it is the total absence of light that bugs me. No merry moments with my companions, no happy savings or bright moments. Nada.

When I saved Red Cliff, ALL of the villagers who participated the battle where dead. So the "victory" was quite depressing to experience. The Dwarfs, as we see from the Dwarf beginning are worse than Ferengi, lost all in political warfare. The Elves are either docile menservants or wild nomads. First I found that romantic, but after a while of thinking, it looked quite backwaterish to me. They survive and that's pretty it. Where ever you look, and whatever your choices are, it just is to chose between dark and less dark. I never seem to come to any moment where I feel good, happy about the endings, happy about a party of friends. Even the good chars; Wynne is just berating me of duties and Lelianna is a religious lunatic!

And Zevran is a sex partner. As a gay gamer I must say I find it a horrible way. I don't seek sex in a game, but I would well have liked romance. Some steady, serious partner in the war, some small foothold of comfort. Zev is just "now we have sex there is no place for love". Thank you very much. God, I never felt so alone in a party.


Another aspect which starts to aggravate me is, that I feel way too much confined, led like the donkey with the carrot or more like the rat in the experimental maze. When you plays City Elf, you never have a choice. You MUST marry, you CAN not fight the humans right away (you are just slapped unconscious without chance of defense), you MUST save the girls, and then you MUST join the Wardens. No. Single. Choice. And those Warden are all but goody-goods. They pick on those without choice, they don't care to ruin lives (Ser Jory!) no matter what, and Duncan seems very clever using people as tools for his cause. And if you play Soldiers Peak you know the Wardens of the past where no Saints either. All the time I am hook-nosed, lead like a cattle with no choice but to slay all or slay almost all. Like in that Mage Tower. I sorta feel like in a quest tunnel and less like in a free world to roam. And somehow I feel that is a big step back from Baldurs Gate or Oblivion or Fallout 3. Outside the fighting I more feel like in a streamlined Adventure than in an RPG. In the end I don't really feel like having a choice or an impact.

Where are the cheerful moments, the moments of belonging to your party, the moments of hope and comfort to counter and balance the darkness? I don't see it. And while I have no problem with darker stories, I also don't feel entertained when ALL is dark. I try to save the Mages, but in the end nearly all are dead. I try to save Red Cliff, but guess what, nearly all are dead. I expect the Dalish and Dwarf stories are equally bleak in the outcome. And it makes me wonder, do I want to delve into a world where there is all dark and bleak? I don't know. For now I make a break, and I don't know if I really go back to the realm of Ferelden at this moment.

Modifié par elikal71, 10 novembre 2009 - 05:48 .

[Medivan]

Honestly, I had quite a few good moments with my party, I think it's literally the party you've brought or the way you've talked to them, the ONLY person I didn't have above at least +60 with was Sten. I took him no where and didn't know what gifts to give him.

Lelianna fell in love with me,

Zevran shat himself everytime I gave him a piece of armor (Antivan boots, Dalish gloves, etc),

Oghren hit on anything with a pair of Breasts (very funny to bring Lelianna and Morrigan along when he's in a group)

Allistair spilled his heart (sounded almost whiney someties) every chance he got

Morrigan tried to sleep with me, TWICE but my char loved Lelianna

Shale ACTUALLY called me a YOU at one point and not a it! Course shortly after that Shale went back to saying it .

Wynne is the wise old Grandmother hands down, against my relationship with Lelianna to begin with, and then apologized to me later (Lelianna at Love level) for trying to say it wouldn't work.

Ed (Dog) well I don't think I could get him below +100 if I tried really.

I swear I'm forgetting someone

Modifié par Medivan, 10 novembre 2009 - 05:53 .

[Poubo]

your experience was totally different to mine, i tried to play it like it was me there, making the decisions, knowing what i knew from the books as well.



i saved redcliffe, only 2-3 people died, they werent "named" characters. Zevran betrayed me after i showed him mercy, this is true of a lot of people in real life. Morigan was only with me to serve her own needs. People are only in it for themselves. Lord of the Rings you only pay attention to the fellowship, people don't like Boromir. Why? To me he was a hero, reminded me of Loghain in some ways. If you played the game where it was self preservation first, you will only see darkness, i played the game to save the lives of others.



unfortunately this game has more reality in it than what most fantasy games do. The bottom line is sacrifices are made, but the outcome is never what you want.



but there are a few cheerful and colourful conversations with Oghren... Rather amusing really.

[Margoshi]

I actually agree with this guy, my favourite parts in the LotR movies (to continue the example) are the happy bits, the first scene in Hobbiton where everything is so innocent and cheerful, people are dancing and happy, or in the deleted scenes of the (I think) second movie, when Legolas and Gimli are challenging each other to a drinking contest. It's scenes like that that make me want to watch the movies again and again.



I think maybe BioWare got a little bit carried away being all dark and dangerous that they ended up taking themselves almost too seriously. It just goes from one drama to another, no feeling of reward when you save those people, just some token cutscene where everyone is like 'yay great!'. I want to be able to mingle, to drink a night away, to interact with the people I've saved, not just the main characters,



I don't know, that's just me.

[Elwoodw]

Hi, OP. Tell us all of the forming experiences of your gaming career.

[Elwoodw]

...and I heard that the sophisticated, cosmopolitan elves had already contracted to work with another developer on a different title, so they were unavailable to lend some light to Bioware on this one.

Modifié par Elwoodw, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

The point is that YOU bring light to the world: you kill demons, free little boys from spells, save Mages from the Fade and angry Templars, and try to stop Loghain from seizing power in Ferelden. How is that so different from LotR? That world isn't exactly a ray of light either until Aragorn and his friends come by and save their asses. Like that king that was enthralled, the city under siege, the advancing armies of Sauron. Without the protagonist, it would all have gone up ***** creek.

When I saved Red Cliff, ALL of the villagers who participated the battle where dead. So the "victory" was quite depressing to experience

You know what would help? SUCK LESS. I did that battle on Normal, to be fair, but only 2 or 3 soldiers actually died on me. Have you tried actually healing the blue-ringed allies?



You can't screw up in this game and then blame the developers for making the experience too dark.

[tkaz85]

Um, we ARE talking about a world that is facing imminent destruction by a nigh-unstoppable horde of ravenous monsters that just slaughtered its king and a whole bunch of his troops. Exactly how much happy were you expecting to find?

[KnightofPhoenix]

So, you don't like Dragon Age for being realistic?

There is no absence of light. For instance, in the Elves vs Werewolves questline, my decision led to both sides being happy. And that was a happy moment.



But yes in general, whatever you do has to come with sacrifice. And although I am sad, bordering depression actually, because Morrigan left, I can't but applause Bioware for the wolrd they created.

It's my kind of world. Nothing great or good comes without sacrifice.

[Red Viking]

The setting is very dark, but like others have said, there are bright spots and your character can be the light in the darkness if you choose to play that way.



The thing is, this is one of those games where you have to work for that happily ever after.

[Red Viking]

double post

Modifié par Red Viking, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:03 .

[Teshronesh]

There are a lot of "light" moments with your party, you have to talk to them more, use the right (background related) gifts and so on.

[DarthKaldriss]

tkaz85 wrote...

Um, we ARE talking about a world that is facing imminent destruction by a nigh-unstoppable horde of ravenous monsters that just slaughtered its king and a whole bunch of his troops. Exactly how much happy were you expecting to find?

             He might have been expecting the Carebear commando squad with there carebear stare special powers to bring light and happiness into the game. 

[Naurhir]

To quote 'some other fantasy series' family's motto', "Winter is coming."

I personally didn't mesh well with Alistair, and found him to be too soft and whiney - so I ditched him for Shale, even though Alistair is a better tank once he has his skills and good equipment.

I didn't like Sten, who was going to be in my party, since he always whined at me about being side-tracked.

I loved, absolutely adored, Shale and to a lesser extent Morrigan and Oghren. I would have appreciated being able to respec characters to make a party of this group, but that would ruin the characters of Morrigan only being out for herself (wouldn't make a proper healer in RP), and Oghren gets drunk and berserks... its only natural that he does this, than has discipline and works as my tank, holding the line.

I am stuck with Leilana and Wynne conspiring together and lecturing me everywhere I go (I am an elven blood mage, and I choose intimidate often). I just buy them enough gifts, and lie to them like I am on their side in the camp. I can't wait to 'harden' Leilana so she will shut up about her damned Chantry.

I think my character choices were slightly forced due to the preferred party I decided on ahead of time, but even so, I appreciate that the characters all have their reasons for being the way they are, and even so, I have 60+ approval with everyone short of Zev and Sten (both of which can go die in a fire).

Edit: also, a response to churchy dialog stating that I worship the old gods of the elves, or the Tevinter Imperium and to take their Maker and shove it, would have been nice too.

Modifié par Naurhir, 10 novembre 2009 - 07:13 .

[Boycarino09]

To boil this down into a one sentence response... Make certain to give the right gifts to the right characters and be sure to do their quests/requests.



I gotta tell ya, the depth of character for me has been the complete opposite as the OP. For instance, I gayed it up with with Zev too and he has gotten to the point where he quotes me poetry man! I'm crushin out on the dude! Sure his past is rough and it makes him pretty calloused at the outset, but the cool thing about this game is watching the characters change for the better (assuming that is how you play).



I've had several moments of real light and depth and faux friendship back at the camp. In fact, this is the first game that I've actually looked forward to getting to camp and learning more about the characters and building their relationships with my PC.



Some annoy me, sure. But even Sten like me now and says some nicely things. Wynne, who generally irritated me at first cuz she was so preachy and had the gall to tell me that Zev and I shouldn't be together almost brought a tear to my eye last night in one of our talks. (I said almost dammit!) In fact, I have to eat crow (that's not a reference to my gaying it up with Zev btw) over how I bad mouthed her because she totally changed my opinion of her.



Sure the dark is really dark... The world is in a sad state... But I'm getting a really rich experience watching the things happening between the characters in camp. And the humor is KILLER! I could go on but I won't.



On some of your points I agree. It truly isn't as 'open ended' as it could be in regards to choices in the narrative, but I accepted that from the get go and am enjoying what it is. It really is a good story!

[Spyre2001]

Nice rant



Your complaint on Zevran being the only gay partner in the group got he thinking it is nice how they are maintaining stereotypes . Bi-guy is carefree morally questionable sex fend. And the Bi-girl is the shy repressive religious girl (aka catholic school girl) starved for attention.



As for the lack of light you did see the word "Dark" on the box right in front of Fantasy didn't you?



Also give that you used Blood Magic that means you sacrificed the mother to save the child. Well yea Alistar doesn't tend to like that sort of thing given he was a templar. Too bad you pissed him off though other wise you could of just "pretended" to have a relationship with him since he acts all emotional most of the time and likes to have "heart to heart" talks. And Orgahn even makes the joke to Morigain that he doesn't think Alistar likes girls .



Personally I tried my best to get the happiest outcomes and I thought it was rather bright. I didn't take the easy way out and use blood magic to save the child. I instead went to the Circle and got their help so I saved the whole family. The battle of Redcliff was... well a battle. People die in battle and it's sad but those you saved will live on. I don't know what more you expected from that scene. And did you take Leliana with you to the Urn? You is very happy to see the Urn since she is very religious and use to be a priest.



As for abandoning the world I know what you mean. So many people betray you in that game it's just rediculous. I've played through the game once and played through the 3 different origins so far just to see how they start out different and all three of them you are betrayed in your origin only to then be betrayed at the battle.



And later at the end during the landsmeet when your trying to get the Lords to listen to reason another major betrayal. When that happen I know it was near the end of the game but I couldn't help but thinking. You know what SCREW YOU GUYS. If you all are to stupid to see that the darkspawn is at your door step and will sweep across this land destroying all of you then fine burn for all I care. In fact I'd love to see how well you do without my help or the allies I've gathered. It was only later that I learned the reason that Gray Wardens are needed to stop a blight and that it's impossible to do with just an army alone. So they really would of stood no chance without the Gray Warden's help.



Sadly though the game is so compelling at times because it mirrors real life. People fighting over power and position while real threats or problems gather and are completely ignored. Or people backstabbing and framing others for their own gains. Which is why I don't hold out much hope for Humanity. After all the state of the Economy is a direct result of all that kind of stuff going on.

[Jaredh]

elikal71 wrote...
One of the forming ....


.....at this moment.

Well if you didn't get along with your party members you missed out the really big moments. The romances really carry this game and because of the romances the ending will affect players in a way no game has ever affected them.
The conversations between your character and the romance partner are the "light" parts in the game. When Alistair gives your character the rose or when you give Morrigan the mirror. These moments are epic!
And just like in the real world it isn't always possible to save everyone. It's a war and people die, that's just the way it is.

[Kalfear]

welp first off the OP is a troll, well spoken but still a troll. He posted this nonsence about DA being to dark, then about how hes a pagen and doesnt beleive in good or evil, and now how no one likes him.

Serious answer: Seems to me the problem isnt the NPC characters but the PC player has no personaly (good or bad) for the characters to relate to, so none of them are. As I expect is the case in the real world as well.

Fact of matter is, if you play a good character, the good characters of the party will embrace you and the game will be all shiny and bright and full of goodness (once you correct the wrong of course).

If your evil and play a evil, Zervan and Morrigan will embrace you and your deeds and the world will be dark and forbidding.

If your middle of road and do no good not bad but just selfish deeds, well there really is no characters like that (because they would add nothing to the game if you must know) you are what you have asked for, alone and disliked and untrusted.

seems to me the OP is the problem here, not the game, not the world, not the NPCs.

And of course no one responding to your advances (gay or not) THEY DONT LIKE YOU! Seriously, how hard is it to give a gift once in a while to build up influence? This isnt rocket science after all. Do things to influence the NPCs and you build up influence with them, do nothing and care only for yourself and you will be alone and by yourself!

Seems to me the only real darkness is the personality of the OP and the world he creates around himself!

Modifié par Kalfear, 14 novembre 2009 - 12:00 .

[Flamin Jesus]

The game is too dark? I have a solution, turn up the Gamma value.

[Ub3r_]

the OP clearly is playing a different game, even though the end of my first play through was bittersweet, i thought the ending was a happy one, i decided to turn down morrigan, i made Alistair king--but wait, he didnt want to be king, so much so, that when we had to slay the Arch Demon, Alistair turned to me and said he would do it, i asked him about the kingship, he said he never wanted it, and that by slaying the arch demon and making the sacrifice that he was "all the king [he] wanted to be right here" how could i say no? even though he died, he died a hero and died happy. The rest is history, and things were looking up under Anora

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Eh, if you don't care for DA's tone, you can always play any other game Bio has ever made.



Personally, I consider the party banter pretty cheery, and saving the world is a major resume point. Actions have both good and bad consequences, but that's just part of creating a believable world. I mean, what's the point in a world where you don't have to make sacrifices or tough decisions to prevail? The good guys just go along easily winning every conflict in every way.

[Ub3r_]

Good demands personal sacrifice
Evil demands

Modifié par Ub3r_, 14 novembre 2009 - 12:12 .

[Walina]

Well, I think the game lack of companions because whatever you play male or female you only have 2 lovers. I miss a lot the fact of friendship beteween characters like I heard in BG there were even couples!

For me the game is not dark, it's reflect some thongs in real life but I would have loved to be able to free my hero from them and not to choose a side, example : why can't just go kill Loghain or even his daughter?! Just like when you can go visit dwarves or elves or mages ? what the hell I can't live more than 30 years?! Is just like have a cancer/tumor? Can't I save myself too? Can't I be happy or destroy Ferelden since everybody only want me dead like all previous Grey Wardens ?

It's the a sad fact, Grey warden are just meat shield for people if they can't at least be happy so yeah I agree, this game is dark, no wait it's not dark it's stupid! Cause making me do all quests, discovering all those ruins, why the hell can't I find a secret weapon to lift the curse on my head?? Oh, I know because soldiers for Bioware don't need it, don't need to think about themselve and just serve those weaklings who will greatly let me die!

Oh, yeah and please Bioware for DAO 2 make some friendship! Not everyone in your group has to dislike eacho other or stay cold, you know ?!

I do not agree about this philosophy : "being good need to some sacrifice", who the hell would like to live with a tumor in their head without trying to find a way to heal it??! who wanna go all around the world asking help then going to die alone on the ennemy?? What's the point then of making this journey? There is none in my opinion!

I am not asking  for the moon like Morrigan becoming a saint, oh god no! Just some logical ending just like when Frodon as to destroy the ring while Araghron protecting his country! That's logical and can you tell me where is the sacrifice?? N where! And everybody loved it because it's nice to see heroes like that who can win over and not dying by the hand of the demon

Modifié par Walina, 14 novembre 2009 - 12:33 .

[DASockDA]

I must've played a different game. Aside from the unavoidable betrayals... I can't think of a single time that anyone actually betrayed my character when he showed mercy. Every single time I had someone at the end of my sword, if I let them live then they helped me out in some way. I never experienced a moment where being a naive "good guy" had any dire consequences, except for what happened with Orzammar. And even then, that only ended badly for them, and had no downside for my character.



I was very disappointed with that. I was hoping for more situations of betrayal. I tend to favor tragic heroes, who strive to do good but are beaten down by the reality of the world they live in. In the case of Dragon Age, I ended up dying to save the world from the Archdemon, which was the only consequence I ever faced.



Nothing even happened to Redcliff -after- I left for a few days to go get the Mages to help, even though there was a warning that something could happen.



So, for me, Dragon Age wasn't dark enough. It just flirted with disaster, but there was always a way to please everyone and have a happy ending (exceptions being Alister vs Loghaine, Morrigan, and my whole family in Highever).

[tls5669]

elikal71 wrote...

Dragon Age a critical view on the absence of light



SPOILERS OF THE FIRST HALF OF THE GAME!!!!


One of the forming experiences of my gaming career was playing Ultima IV The Quest of the Avatar. You see that I am one of the older gamers. Ultima IV and Ultima in general was one of the decisive moments for me as gamer. The idea of Ultima IV was not to kill as much as possible to gain XP and to loot everything not nailed down, but on the contrary. It was a tale about discovering yourself and to this day it is one of the few of the great RPGs without any supervillain or horde of evil to slay.

When I started playing Dragon Age, I played all starter races/classes just to see them, and I can say they are all excellent. I found the game quite great in the first 2-3 days, but with every passing hour now, I feel less and less connected, less and less inclined to continue, so I allowed myself a break to contemplate why this is so? All reviews are full of praise, 9 of 10 or even 10 of 10, it is said to be THE RPG at Eurogamer.de. But truth be told, at this moment I start to have doubts about this. I am at the point where I finished the stories of the Mages Tower, of Red Cliff, the Urn of Ashes and I now met the Dalish. The game informs me I have solved about 30%.

I am at the point pondering to give the game up, and that is something VERY disturbing, given I rarely ever give up on a RPG, let alone one crafted with such great story telling. So why?

Now in the Paragon of Fantasy, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, one of the darkest and depressing parts is Moria. The Dwarfs all failed, there is a Balrog on the loose and the good old Gandalf dies. All seems to be lost. But after the darkness of Moria comes the light of Lothlorien. Even if it is more a sad remain. That is what IMO makes the darkness bearable, makes it stand out, it has a counterpoint. And so far in DA it seems to me I always got from bad to worse.


I have stated elsewhere that I don't get along with any of the companions. Since I let Blood Magic use to save the kid in Red Cliff, Alistair stays at +12 and he stopped telling me anything personal. Morrigan is a misantrope, Leilana way too dreamy and disattached from reality, Zevran is so so, entertaining but not really emotionally connected to anything, and now evern Wynne has started to nerve me with morals like "you can have no relationship, you have ALL duty as a Warden". So I end up carrying a party of people, to NONE of whom I feel like a friend. They are with me for the need. That's it. Ok, I forced a closeness to Zevren, for the sole purpose of trying out how the gay relationship works out, but in real, I never would do it. He IS a murderer after all. What bugs me with these people, none of them really is on my side. I value the try of Bioware to make them personalities, and they sure have believable ones and well told ones, but I don't like the experience. I am all surrounded by people who stick to me and I have zero reason why. Alistair should by all right lead as Warden senior, Morrigan seems to have no feel of a greater good by her survival, and so on. They all just are with me to have a cheap taxi to drive to to "see the world". I never feel they are my companions or even my friends. All have ratings -10 to +15, save Zevran, where as said I forced the issue. So there is no cheering, no nice party feeling anywhere in my group. They are people for the use of more swords. End of story. And that is quite sad.


The same goes with the world. Good riddance, what a place. I understand Bioware wanted to make a darker world, but I tell you I will surely NOT buy a second RPG in this world setting. Sorry, but it's not the darkness, it is the total absence of light that bugs me. No merry moments with my companions, no happy savings or bright moments. Nada.

When I saved Red Cliff, ALL of the villagers who participated the battle where dead. So the "victory" was quite depressing to experience. The Dwarfs, as we see from the Dwarf beginning are worse than Ferengi, lost all in political warfare. The Elves are either docile menservants or wild nomads. First I found that romantic, but after a while of thinking, it looked quite backwaterish to me. They survive and that's pretty it. Where ever you look, and whatever your choices are, it just is to chose between dark and less dark. I never seem to come to any moment where I feel good, happy about the endings, happy about a party of friends. Even the good chars; Wynne is just berating me of duties and Lelianna is a religious lunatic!

And Zevran is a sex partner. As a gay gamer I must say I find it a horrible way. I don't seek sex in a game, but I would well have liked romance. Some steady, serious partner in the war, some small foothold of comfort. Zev is just "now we have sex there is no place for love". Thank you very much. God, I never felt so alone in a party.


Another aspect which starts to aggravate me is, that I feel way too much confined, led like the donkey with the carrot or more like the rat in the experimental maze. When you plays City Elf, you never have a choice. You MUST marry, you CAN not fight the humans right away (you are just slapped unconscious without chance of defense), you MUST save the girls, and then you MUST join the Wardens. No. Single. Choice. And those Warden are all but goody-goods. They pick on those without choice, they don't care to ruin lives (Ser Jory!) no matter what, and Duncan seems very clever using people as tools for his cause. And if you play Soldiers Peak you know the Wardens of the past where no Saints either. All the time I am hook-nosed, lead like a cattle with no choice but to slay all or slay almost all. Like in that Mage Tower. I sorta feel like in a quest tunnel and less like in a free world to roam. And somehow I feel that is a big step back from Baldurs Gate or Oblivion or Fallout 3. Outside the fighting I more feel like in a streamlined Adventure than in an RPG. In the end I don't really feel like having a choice or an impact.

Where are the cheerful moments, the moments of belonging to your party, the moments of hope and comfort to counter and balance the darkness? I don't see it. And while I have no problem with darker stories, I also don't feel entertained when ALL is dark. I try to save the Mages, but in the end nearly all are dead. I try to save Red Cliff, but guess what, nearly all are dead. I expect the Dalish and Dwarf stories are equally bleak in the outcome. And it makes me wonder, do I want to delve into a world where there is all dark and bleak? I don't know. For now I make a break, and I don't know if I really go back to the realm of Ferelden at this moment.

That right there explains this entire post to me and the reason I stopped reading it. The real world is like that, there's not always a happy ending. You're job is to save the world, with companions that have PERSONALITY! I dont get along with the people I work with, but we do fabulous work together. I guess you want everyone dancing in the street, wearing pink, holding flowers and singing.

You mentioned LOTOR, have you actually read the book? The whole thing is dark, and the ending in THE BOOK is nothing like the movie ending, it would have been too dark to put in the movie IMO. I have no problem what so ever with the story in this game, as a matter of fact I love the fact that there really is no happy ending. Myself I'm sick of every story having a happy ending, this is a refreshing change from the norm. Bioware hit a home run in that aspect.