Aller au contenu

Photo

Mass Effect 3 should have choices like Alpha Protocol( AP Spoilers)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
108 réponses à ce sujet

#101
DarthCaine

DarthCaine
  • Members
  • 7 175 messages

Therion942 wrote...

I find it a little funny you're in here defending ME2's abominable C&C system with a Witcher 2 signature, considering the Witcher did C&C much better than ME2 did with probably half the budget and even more paths and characters to deal with.<_<

I can't like both? I agree that TW did C&C far better than ANY BioWare games, but there are places where ME2 is superior (thought both TW and ME2 are far superior to AP and ME1)

ME2's C&C system was no different than any other BioWare game (ME2's emails==DAO's/BG's/JE's epilogue texts)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:55 .


#102
TwistedComplex

TwistedComplex
  • Members
  • 1 441 messages
I dont like that idea. I cant stand when a game makes you choose between friends and innocents.



I'de rather have an incredibly hard to beat path and save them all

#103
Oblarg

Oblarg
  • Members
  • 243 messages
Alpha Protocol has by far the most reactive narrative of any modern cRPG.  No, it's not perfect, but it sure as hell has better C&C than ME or ME2.  The timed dialogue system was fantastic, and the move to general stances as opposed to specific responses was necessary to make it work.  There were maybe two instances I can remember of being surprised at what my character said - generally, the descriptions were more than enough to know how you were going to respond.

That said, I don't think a timed dialogue system should be implemented in ME3.  That was something that was specific to AP, and fit in well with the espionage setting and the mindset of having to think on your feet.  The emphasis is very different than that of Mass Effect.  In many ways, the main focus of Alpha Protocol was on interaction with the various characters, and it makes sense that it was the most fleshed out and complete part of the game.  This is not true of Mass Effect, and I really don't think it should be.

There's also something to be said for the monumental task of implementing C&C on the scale of multiple games - from what I can gather, it took a *lot* of resources to give AP the amount of branching that it had, and you have to keep in mind that a similar amount of C&C is nearly impossible to maintain over a three game series.  You must keep in mind that developers, even those as large as BioWare, have limited resources.

Now, slightly off-topic, the complaints about the combat in AP are understandable, but unfounded.  The main problem people have is that the combat system (especially for pistols) almost completely revolved around lining up criticals - if you adapted to this, the pistol became absurdly powerful.  No, you can't play it like your standard point-and-shoot TPS, and it would really have been nice if the tutorials hadn't been so worthless in that respect, but overall the action and stealth worked fine.  Hell, I even managed to complete a playthrough using only SMGs without much trouble - yeah, the balance was really off, but none of the guns were unusable (as some would have you believe).  I've heard the game was buggy for many people, but all I encountered was the occasional graphical glitch and a few reactivity bugs (surprisingly few given how ambitious it was).

It wasn't a perfect game, not at all, but it was a very satisfying RPG.  Overall, I'd say I enjoyed it significantly more than I enjoyed ME2, though somewhat less than I enjoyed ME1.  It certainly wasn't deserving of the terrible review scores it received from all the mainstream American reviewers, but then again, no one with any sense puts value in those (and, oddly enough, it was almost universally well-received in Europe).

If there's one thing Mass Effect could learn from Alpha Protocol, it's to have better writing, but then again BioWare doesn't have Chris Avellone so I doubt they'll ever match Obsidian in that regard.

Modifié par Oblarg, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:35 .


#104
Kaiser Shepard

Kaiser Shepard
  • Members
  • 7 890 messages
Speaking of Alpha Protocol, it's only 20 euro new now, should I get it?

#105
Kronner

Kronner
  • Members
  • 6 249 messages

Oblarg wrote...

Alpha Protocol has by far the most
reactive narrative of any modern cRPG.  No, it's not perfect, but it
sure as hell has better C&C than ME or ME2.  The timed dialogue
system was fantastic, and the move to general stances as opposed to
specific responses was necessary to make it work.  There were maybe two
instances I can remember of being surprised at what my character said -
generally, the descriptions were more than enough to know how you were
going to respond.

That said, I don't think a timed dialogue
system should be implemented in ME3.  That was something that was
specific to AP, and fit in well with the espionage setting and the
mindset of having to think on your feet.  The emphasis is very different
than that of Mass Effect.  In many ways, the main focus of Alpha
Protocol was on interaction with the various characters, and it makes
sense that it was the most fleshed out and complete part of the game. 
This is not true of Mass Effect, and I really don't think it should be.

There's
also something to be said for the monumental task of implementing
C&C on the scale of multiple games - from what I can gather, it took
a *lot* of resources to give AP the amount of branching that it had,
and you have to keep in mind that a similar amount of C&C is nearly
impossible to maintain over a three game series.  You must keep in mind
that developers, even those as large as BioWare, have limited resources.

Now,
slightly off-topic, the complaints about the combat in AP are
understandable, but unfounded.  The main problem people have is that the
combat system (especially for pistols) almost completely revolved
around lining up criticals - if you adapted to this, the pistol became
absurdly powerful.  No, you can't play it like your standard
point-and-shoot TPS, and it would really have been nice if the tutorials
hadn't been so worthless in that respect, but overall the action and
stealth worked fine.  Hell, I even managed to complete a playthrough
using only SMGs without much trouble - yeah, the balance was really off,
but none of the guns were unusable (as some would have you believe). 
I've heard the game was buggy for many people, but all I encountered was
the occasional graphical glitch and a few reactivity bugs (surprisingly
few given how ambitious it was).

It wasn't a perfect game, not
at all, but it was a very satisfying RPG.  Overall, I'd say I enjoyed it
significantly more than I enjoyed ME2, though somewhat less than
I enjoyed ME1.  It certainly wasn't deserving of the terrible review
scores it received from all the mainstream American reviewers, but then
again, no one with any sense puts value in those (and, oddly enough, it
was almost universally well-received in Europe).

If there's one
thing Mass Effect could learn from Alpha Protocol, it's to have better
writing, but then again BioWare doesn't have Chris Avellone so I doubt
they'll ever match Obsidian in that regard.



Agreed, it is a good game. There are tough choices and no way around them like in Mass Effect - you got to pick something in any case. I enjoyed the story and characters, though combat and camera could be better. Pistols are overpowered in that game though (Chain Shot makes any boss fights a complete joke). You can play a stealth character, martial arts expert etc.

Very good game well worth 20 EUR imho.


PS: I hated the hacking mini game, I played PC version and the mouse control in that minigame is awful. 2 points in sabotage make it quite easy though.

Modifié par Kronner, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .


#106
Oblarg

Oblarg
  • Members
  • 243 messages
Also, something which many people didn't get about the save Madison/save innocents choice is that the main choice was not between Madison's life and the life of the civilians, it was between Madison's life and allowing Halbech to successfully create a terrorism scare in the EU that they could make a huge profit on. In fact, I believe the original dev who worked on Rome wanted the player to be told that the museum would be empty and that casualties would be minimal if the bombs went off, but that there was a bit of compromise because other devs felt that would result in all the players choosing to save Madison.

Kronner wrote...
PS: I hated the hacking mini game, I played
PC version and the mouse control in that minigame is awful. 2 points in
sabotage make it quite easy though.


The controls for the hacking minigame were really wonky, yeah, but the design was solid, and I found it to be a lot of fun once I got over the fact that I had to move my mouse so much to align the code properly.  It was certainly better than the minigames in Mass Effect, and I think they did a great job of nailing the player skill/character skill balance for the minigames - they were hard enough that the "high skill level" hacking, while still possible with no tech skill if you were *really* good at it, gave a good amount of incentive to dump some points into sabotage.

Modifié par Oblarg, 01 novembre 2010 - 05:57 .


#107
Kronner

Kronner
  • Members
  • 6 249 messages
The problem with the minigame was, that the "block" would not stay in one place.
IE I found where to put it, navigated, aligned properly, clicked and bam..time left was significantly lowered, because the block moved. This happened only with my mouse though - I had no problems using the arrows for the other block. So I read the talent description, put 2 points into Sabotage and it was a lot easier.

I agree that it is much better than ME2 minigames..which are incredibly easy and dull.

Modifié par Kronner, 01 novembre 2010 - 06:03 .


#108
Oblarg

Oblarg
  • Members
  • 243 messages

Kronner wrote...

The problem with the minigame was, that the "block" would not stay in one place.
IE I found where to put it, navigated, aligned properly, clicked and bam..time left was significantly lowered, because the block moved. This happened only with my mouse though - I had no problems using the arrows for the other block. So I read the talent description, put 2 points into Sabotage and it was a lot easier.

I agree that it is much better than ME2 minigames..which are incredibly easy and dull.


Yeah, that's a control issue - the motion involved with clicking would often throw off your alignment.  Using the mouse to align the second block was bad design.  If they had used arrow keys instead it would have been perfect.

#109
azerSheppard

azerSheppard
  • Members
  • 1 279 messages
this could add alot of repaly value to the 3rd game. Say you play as an ****hole first, followed by a by-the-books douchebag maybe followed by a charismatic suave type of cocky guy.



The roleplaying, or should i say character development in mass effect is very linear, Shepard does not even evolve as a person, but adding multiple reaction would allow for an interesting change for each play.



Rise of the Argonauts also had something like AP, you chose you conversation by your "Devine" alignment, choosing between Ares, Athena, Apollo or my fav smart**** god, Hermes xd (good game btw)