26 réponses à ce sujet

[Harcken]

Being a pretty old school rpg fan, I enjoyed the loot management in DAO, but also felt like it could have been greatly improved. Now, I hope Bioware keeps the loot collecting system of Dragon Age (called into question with unique animations/body types and defining armor, but still speculative) with a few improvements. I felt that Dragon Age loot never really rewarded me. When I defeat an awesome bad guy, I want awesome treasures. However, most awesome bad guys gave you around 8 items, with 6/8 items being junk and the other 2 being subpar or equal to equipment that you can buy. Reward the player, it makes the battle have that much more "oomph," that much more "I'm the hero factor."

Loot scaling was almost a necessity in DAO due to the game being split up into 5 parts, allowing you to explore each in any order. However, because of the flashback narrative structure that DA2 is using, the loot system is really allowed to shine. The devs should take adv. of this type of game and allow you to slowly build up your arsenal.

One huge problem I faced in DAO, is that I rarely, if ever, changed my equipment. Most of the DLC items lasted me up until the end of the game, and I picked up starfang and the warden commander armor early on and never swap them out. Don't give away items that are too powerful early on, otherwise it just destroys the whole loot system. Why put the effort into making all the other pieces of equipment/items if I'm using the same gear that I was basically spoon fed early on?

Going along with the "reward the player" idea, Rogue looting was very lackluster. Most of the time, chests contained junk items that I could get from wolves. It makes the rogue utility feel sort of dull, and makes chests feel like dead rats. Chests are known as treasure boxes; why lock a chest because it contains a health potion? Chests were too common and almost always had terrible loot. Place around 1-2 chests per dungeon (0 if chests aren't appropriate), and give the player some nice items. The more nice items, the more the player needs to think about his equipment. The loot system works great when the palyer has to stop an My master thief collected nearly 500 daggers and 500 potions by the end of the game, a master thief indeed.

The more varied and useful equipment, the more the player must stop and think, "What should I use?" A successfull loot system is one that forces the player to make difficult decisions when it comes to what gear he should use. A failed loot system is one where the most powerful items are given away very early on, and this in and of itself is a flaw. There should be no "absolute number 1 item." If there must be, it should be attained very late in the game (the exception is if the piece of equipment is used for story purposes).

What do you guys think? How should loot be improved/morphed in DA2?

[Shepard Lives]

Harcken wrote...

Being a pretty old school rpg fan, I enjoyed the loot management in DAO, but also felt like it could have been greatly improved. Now, I hope Bioware keeps the loot collecting system of Dragon Age (called into question with unique animations/body types and defining armor, but still speculative) with a few improvements. I felt that Dragon Age loot never really rewarded me. When I defeat an awesome bad guy, I want awesome treasures. However, most awesome bad guys gave you around 8 items, with 6/8 items being junk and the other 2 being subpar or equal to equipment that you can buy. Reward the player, it makes the battle have that much more "oomph," that much more "I'm the hero factor."

Loot scaling was almost a necessity in DAO due to the game being split up into 5 parts, allowing you to explore each in any order. However, because of the flashback narrative structure that DA2 is using, the loot system is really allowed to shine. The devs should take adv. of this type of game and allow you to slowly build up your arsenal.

One huge problem I faced in DAO, is that I rarely, if ever, changed my equipment. Most of the DLC items lasted me up until the end of the game, and I picked up starfang and the warden commander armor early on and never swap them out. Don't give away items that are too powerful early on, otherwise it just destroys the whole loot system. Why put the effort into making all the other pieces of equipment/items if I'm using the same gear that I was basically spoon fed early on?

Going along with the "reward the player" idea, Rogue looting was very lackluster. Most of the time, chests contained junk items that I could get from wolves. It makes the rogue utility feel sort of dull, and makes chests feel like dead rats. Chests are known as treasure boxes; why lock a chest because it contains a health potion? Chests were too common and almost always had terrible loot. Place around 1-2 chests per dungeon (0 if chests aren't appropriate), and give the player some nice items. The more nice items, the more the player needs to think about his equipment. The loot system works great when the palyer has to stop an My master thief collected nearly 500 daggers and 500 potions by the end of the game, a master thief indeed.

The more varied and useful equipment, the more the player must stop and think, "What should I use?" A successfull loot system is one that forces the player to make difficult decisions when it comes to what gear he should use. A failed loot system is one where the most powerful items are given away very early on, and this in and of itself is a flaw. There should be no "absolute number 1 item." If there must be, it should be attained very late in the game (the exception is if the piece of equipment is used for story purposes).

What do you guys think? How should loot be improved/morphed in DA2?

Well said. I agree completely.

[Chuvvy]

It should definitely still be there.

[Vaeliorin]

I think that it should be somewhat more random. I hate fixed loot, I think it makes replays less interesting. Other than that, I didn't really have much problem with DA's loot system.

[HopHazzard]

Definitely want a loot system of some sort. And I agree about the locked chests. There should be fewer and they should contain items that are actually worth locking up.

[In Exile]

With DLC loot, the issue was that it level scaled in a poor way. You lost armour protection for low level armour versus very high level armour but the stat bonus stayed the same, and it was still superior to a lot of armour. Really, with Juggernaught, Blood Dragon Armour, Warden Commander and the Templar Knight Commander (I think the 40% magic resist is beastly) you had as much armour as you needed warriors.

I haven't ever seen loot done well in a video-game to comment, though.Do you know a game that did do loot well, so we can have a baseline?

ETA:

I think the idea was that the garbage loot was just filler you sold, and the real powerful items you bought, and your hard choice was between which 100g items to buy in stores.

Modifié par In Exile, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:17 .

[In Exile]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I think that it should be somewhat more random. I hate fixed loot, I think it makes replays less interesting. Other than that, I didn't really have much problem with DA's loot system.

See, I have the opposite attitude. I hate random loot, because it just gives me 35 veridium scale gloves.

[Vaeliorin]

In Exile wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
I think that it should be somewhat more random. I hate fixed loot, I think it makes replays less interesting. Other than that, I didn't really have much problem with DA's loot system.

See, I have the opposite attitude. I hate random loot, because it just gives me 35 veridium scale gloves.

Well, I didn't mean quite that random.  Like, say we look at the dragon in the Orzammar throne room.  It always drops the same sword, Dragonslayer, I believe it's called (I've never actually used it, so I don't remember it too well, other than I think it had the Messy Kills property on it.)  In my preferred system, that dragon would always drop a 2-handed weapon of the same quality, but it would be randomly selected from 4 or 5 (and maybe one of the 4 or 5 is actually a bit better than the others).  That way, when I fight the dragon, it's not just "Ho hum, here's another easy fight to get a weapon that isn't really very useful." but instead I have a chance to maybe get something better, or at least something different that isn't always the exact same thing I got on my other 7 playthroughs.

I guess it just kind of bugged me that my characters would always end up kitted out the same at the end of the game.

[Dynamomark]

About loot scaling--

Rather than scaling the loot, I would prefer that they have a greater chance of finding high level/unique items based on the level of the character. For example, a 1% chance of looting the Rose's Thorn off the corpse of the Ogre in Ishaal Tower; 10% chance of getting the same from High Dragon.

Modifié par Dynamomark, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:32 .

[Lyna357]

However they decide to implement loot, I just hope they put in complete sets. I originally played on the 360 and looked everywhere for the Ceremonial gloves to complete the set. Same with the Blackblade armor in Awakening.
So then I get the PC version of the game to find they left the Eleven boots out of the cupboard, where I always found them on the Xbox version.<_<
'Set bonus' is frustrating when you cannot find the entire set.

[Vaeliorin]

Lyna357 wrote...
However they decide to implement loot, I just hope they put in complete sets. I originally played on the 360 and looked everywhere for the Ceremonial gloves to complete the set. Same with the Blackblade armor in Awakening.
So then I get the PC version of the game to find they left the Eleven boots out of the cupboard, where I always found them on the Xbox version.<_<
'Set bonus' is frustrating when you cannot find the entire set.

That does bring something to mind.  More light/medium/heavy sets that have bonuses equivalent to the massive sets.  It was so frustrating that there really weren't any good armor sets other than the massive ones.

[HopHazzard]

Don't know about the ceremonial armor, but the blackblade armor and elven boots are bugs. Not that you don't have a good point.

[Dynamomark]

Lyna357 wrote...

However they decide to implement loot, I just hope they put in complete sets. I originally played on the 360 and looked everywhere for the Ceremonial gloves to complete the set. Same with the Blackblade armor in Awakening.
So then I get the PC version of the game to find they left the Eleven boots out of the cupboard, where I always found them on the Xbox version.<_<
'Set bonus' is frustrating when you cannot find the entire set.

In case you weren't aware of this.

[Vandrayke]

HopHazzard wrote...

Definitely want a loot system of some sort. And I agree about the locked chests. There should be fewer and they should contain items that are actually worth locking up.

absolutely.  Fewer, better chests ftw.  And less loot that is more significant.

[Vandrayke]

Also I don't want to loot junk off darkspawn and brigands. One item or something off a boss is fine but 11ty crappy weapons and armors is just clutter.

[Merci357]

In Exile wrote...

With DLC loot, the issue was that it level scaled in a poor way. You lost armour protection for low level armour versus very high level armour but the stat bonus stayed the same, and it was still superior to a lot of armour.

Well, since you could always sell and re buy the DLC armor, it did also scale to your appropriate level. So even if you did WK or RtO early on, it offered about the best armor available for a whole playthrough. And looked better then most vanilla items.
I don't think DLC drops/items should be included in the discussion. Of course I did the same as most of you, my warrior had the Warden Commander armor and Starfang for 90% of the game, so those DLC items relegated almost every other drop in the game into vendor trash. However, the DLC is optional, and actually it's items are a reason why some purchased WK or RtO in the first place. That's not my mindset - but I've seen it way to often on these boards, as soon as there is a new story DLC announced, people will ask if they get any new items. I don't think this will change with DA2.

[Lyna357]

Dynamomark wrote...

Lyna357 wrote...

However they decide to implement loot, I just hope they put in complete sets. I originally played on the 360 and looked everywhere for the Ceremonial gloves to complete the set. Same with the Blackblade armor in Awakening.
So then I get the PC version of the game to find they left the Eleven boots out of the cupboard, where I always found them on the Xbox version.<_<
'Set bonus' is frustrating when you cannot find the entire set.

In case you weren't aware of this.

Thank you, good sir. Cool site, much appreciated.

[wickedwizzard01]

In Exile wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

I think that it should be somewhat more random. I hate fixed loot, I think it makes replays less interesting. Other than that, I didn't really have much problem with DA's loot system.

See, I have the opposite attitude. I hate random loot, because it just gives me 35 veridium scale gloves. 

I have no problem with either loot system the random fixed system since each system has its advantages and its disadvantages

Why not create a hybrid between the too of some sort, so that certain loot is random and other is fixed or that certain locations have a random system and other a fixed
i think it would even be very cool if it was tied to an action you perfomed or how you did it to determine what loot you would get
for instance if i kill an Ogre with a High spec warrior and powefull sword in say 2-3 blows then i would get one or more low items say health potions.
But if i would kill the same Ogre with a rogue and 2 low mediums spec daggers i would get a more valuable item lets say a better armor or whatnot.
wich could make it more interesting to play
at the least it would allow for some tactical planning of your attack
since it is deciding what loot you get

An other thing is to randomize the chests but only do it so that you have the more valuable stuff in chests
And place only a few chests and have it max at 4-5 depending how big the dungeon is
Do it in a way that you do not get a very high spec sword or shield or whatnot very early on in the game.
I would like to see that when i killed an Ogre i do not get the same health potion as when i would kill a random Darkspawn

just some ideas i got while reading the OP

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:35 .

[mdfitz2]

the only problem i had is when i was given a reward i sometimes could not tell what it was

[HopHazzard]

mdfitz2 wrote...

the only problem i had is when i was given a reward i sometimes could not tell what it was

Seriously. I've played six or seven times and still have no idea what my reward from Brother Genetivi is.

[wickedwizzard01]

HopHazzard wrote...

mdfitz2 wrote...

the only problem i had is when i was given a reward i sometimes could not tell what it was

Seriously. I've played six or seven times and still have no idea what my reward from Brother Genetivi is.

LOL have played it way more than seven and have no clue what i get from Genetivi either,
maybe he's just saying it but not giving anything<_<

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:48 .

[twincast]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

mdfitz2 wrote...

the only problem i had is when i was given a reward i sometimes could not tell what it was

Seriously. I've played six or seven times and still have no idea what my reward from Brother Genetivi is.

Master Dweomer Rune.

I only noticed because I'd bought a few runes and that wasn't one of them.

"you have received " would fix the problem.

thank you. that's been bugging me as well.

Anyway, I agree with the general sentiments in this thread so far.
loot = yay! lotsa crappy stuff that fills up my inventory = boo!

I don't want every single new piece of loot to be equal to or better than my current stuff, though. So enemies with low-level gear should always drop low-level gear throughout the game, but not every single specimen!
In that regard Drakensang is terrible (way too much clutter), while Drakensang: The River of Time is near perfect. And Origins and Awakening fail in different ways.

And yes, the new structure should (hopefully) help to balance loot way more efficiently.

If DA2 were to go the ME2 route regarding loot, that'd be a definite dealbreaker for me.

(PS: I can definitely also appreciate a what-you-see-is-what-you-get loot system when integrated well and thoroughly, though.)

[Lux]

What I hated in DAO's looting was that only rogues could open the locked chests. Whatever happened to bashing?

[WilliamShatner]

They should implement a Two Worlds loot system where you can combine items to create better ones.