1507 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

RageGT wrote...

And Asai, this thread is about what you would like to mix in DA2. Not really which one is the better game. They are both amazing games. Except that TW2 promises to be a sequel. DA2 will only happen in the same world, with some references to what happened in DA:O. Pretty much what Arcania/Gothic4 is going to do with the cannon ending of Gothic 3, i.e., the Nameless Hero becoming the King and nothing but a mention in G4. (I wonder if some Gothic fans will be pissed off with that since there are other possible endings and my most usual ending is going thru a portal with the necromancer and leaving that world for good... how can he be the King then? heh)

That´s why I think Risen is the actual continuation of Gothic. Nameless got a proper ending to his story as the chosen of Innos and Xardas´s plan is resolved.
In Arcania it seem he´ll be the bad guy, so it looks worse so far than DA2.

[Tirigon]

Asai, you make a good post, but I disagree in a few points:

asaiasai wrote...

I have both games and i have to say that it is a tough decision that i have made regarding which game is better, it was very close, very close indeed.

Combat; I liked The Witcher combat system better, because skill was required as opposed to DAO's mashing a button stat driven outcome. TW combat was more intensive requiring the player to be mobile which could cause problems for the limited interface of the consoles, where as DAO was more static combat and for the most part the player could start combat in one spot, usually never straying far from it.
Result TW wins

This is not my experience - while I found Witcher´s combat enjoyable, I think it depends MUCH more on stats than on skill, as you have no way to actively block or evade and because the level of your fighting style has such a huge effect on damage. Effectively, some enemies that were a pain in the ass in the beginning became a cakewalk after a few level-ups, and it´s the reason I still consider the first bossfight before Vizima the most difficult fight in the entire game.
To stay on topic, I think DA2´s combat should be changed from DAO´s, but NOT in the Witcher´s way.

This next category is for me fastly becomming the criteria by which i decide what games i will be purchasing upon release or waiting to catch on sale.

Character customization; This category belongs to DAO with out question. Providing the player with the ability to choose a character's race, looks, sex, and personality also designing the game to reflect these different choices for the player, is where DAO shines. Each and every warden is an individual creation made by the player and each can be as different as the player chooses, which means they can be as different as the players themselves are. My wardens are mine, yours are yours, and by Bioware deciding to get out of the players way so that they may write thier own story with in the story has granted the played almost unlimited replay options. It is this simple idea that maybe difficult to implement, but the care taken in the details to ensure that each play can be different, is where DAO outshines them all.
Result Landslide DAO wins.

The character customization options avalable to me in DAO is the primary reason this game beats out TW. Once you have played TW 2 or 3 times the game is pretty much the same except for a few dialog options. I have 19 seperate wardens each is different some the only difference is subtle, but allowing me to replay a game numerous times and still see something different is a credit to the writing and attention to detail. Sure Bioware could have taken greater pains to ensure that the epiloge reflected the actual happenings in the game i think after the feed back they took the first time around, i am willing to bet that if there is a problem with DA2 this WILL NOT be it.

Sadly, the characters in DAO don´t differ from each other as much as you might think; leading to the point that I actually played Witcher more often than DAO. I agree, however, that Character customisation is better than a preset char, and this is why I consider Hawke as DA2 Mainchar a terrible mistake, cos it takes a big part of this customisation away.

[Persephone]

The enhanced, uncut, patched version of The Witcher is still my favorite RPG ever. While I adore DAO, their choices (If you can call them that) are cardboard cut out black and white, while in TW there were always shades of grey. In TW, the consequences HAPPEN in the game. If Geralt wants to be neutral, he can, in DAO you are forced to dabble in politics. The romances were more realistic, less kitschy. In TW, there were "good" and "bad" consequences, not just good = rewards & bad = punishment, people leave events. Geralts sarcastic, no nonsense outlook also was refreshing. (Not to speak of his brilliant VO) Of course TW was not perfect (Shianni forcing you to choose between her and Triss, even if you never romanced her?) but I'd like to see some of TW's realism, grit and shades of grey in DA2.

[Milana_Saros]

Shiroukai wrote...

As for me, I really liked the realistic mature aspect of the game. When people badmouthed someone, it was really badmouthing and not just some child friendly calling someone a cheese head. Dirty allys had not only thugs, but prostitutes as well. And some people didn't mind showing some skin here and there.

This. Why the game was rated mature is beyond me (obviously talking about DA:O here). The atmosphere in the Witcher was mind-tingling. After wording a little with someone, you actually wanted to break his bones. Hell, I even wanted to bunch Shani when she got all ownerish on me...and I'm a woman IRL 

[Weldridge]

Kalfear wrote...

Im loving The Witcher because its a true Action RPG, ublike ME2.
Combat builds up the STORY in the Witcher.
Styory builds up the Combat in ME2.

Thats the huge difference between the two.
At the end of the day, after playing tha Witcher, you know that story comes first and formost. At end of day with ME2, you know the story only there to give combat some meaning.
VASTLY different approachs to gameing.

As I said, im playing The Witcher for the first time and its already tied with DA:O for 2nd best game Ive ever played.
But one of my major complaints with the Witcher is the voice preset on Geralt. In chapters 1 and 2 it was totally immersion breaking for me. In chapter 3 ive grown to accept it, not like it, but accept it!

You cant really compare DA:O and TW combat as one is squad based and other is single player based. Developers have to approach combat in vastly different mindsets for these types of combat! I think both games did exceptionally well in this regard.

As for TW2, my spring of 2011 games buy stands as:
Deus Ex3
The Witcher 2
The Old Republic

Dragon Age 2 (whats been reported) doesnt hold a candle to what beed reported for Deus Ex3 or The witcher 2. Its not even close at this point in time!

But mostly (for me) it comes down to who I beleive now. I just have no faith in this new Bioware. I dont trust them, I dont like how they acting on boards and in interveiws, I (like many many others)dont like direction of DA2, and After ME2, there simply is no good will left over for them to play on.

Some folks might buy anything that has Biowares name with out question or thought, im far more thinking and picky then that! Game companies EARN (and lose) my respect by their actions and how good to their words they are. Right now, Bioware is as close to rock bottom as you can get for me (game wise).

Ill still check in, in hopes Bioware putting out a real RPG product but so far DA2 sounds like the Mass Effect approach where the stories only there to prop up the action.

For me, STORY, IMMERSION, INTERACTION of characters, and CHARACTER DETAIL, these things all come BEFORE combat in level of importance for real RPGs and CD Projekt seems to understand that in their designing of ROLE PLAYING GAMES ( RPGs)!! Doesnt mean you have to have bad combat, Mass Effect 2 could of had same combat system and still been a RPG if they only cared half as much about story and immersion and character detail as they did about combat in the game. But they didnt.

PS: I strongly suggest anyone that hasnt played The Witcher to try it! I got it for $20.00 off Steam and I would have gladly payed full price for this game, even now. Well worth the money.

CD Projekt being a independant developer doesnt get the attention it should (like Bioware and Blizzard gets) but their first game is as good as anything Bioware put out and better then anything Blizzard put out IMO.

Your comparison of The Witcher to the likes of Baldur's Gate...and Neverwinter Knights....and KoTOR is just mind boggling. The Witcher was based off of a BOOK......there isn't a single original thought in the game. Where as, although the setting was semi-determined by the different universes, the stories for BG, NWN, and KoTOR were completely original stories!

And I can't believe I'm even hearing you compare The Witcher to games such as Starcraft and Warcraft II, or perhaps even Diablo I/II. The Witcher is a farce when compared to these games of complete and utter originality. There are reasons these companies have risen to the top, and it's got everything to do with money. Why? Because they have it. Because they produce top quality games, period. If you do not produce good games....your company will fail.

Mass Effect 2 had amazing character immersion if you took the time to attempt it, as a matter of fact I felt like there was better character immersion than in ME1. I felt like the combat system took a dive in favor of better story.

This is not a matter of opinion....or rather it is....and your opinion is so skewed because the companies don't stick to what your used to so you say that the game is bad.

Wake up.

[elearon1]

It takes a lot if skill to translate a book to film and the same has to be said about a book to a game. Not anyone can take a blueprint and build an cathedral and that is what you're talking about when building one medium from another. Not to mention they had to translate, condense, and reorganize a few things to make a great game experience for people being introduced to the universe and the character for the first time - which includes almost the entire American audience. (the first two Witcher books weren't translated and released in the U.S. until after the game release, from what I recall ... since I went looking for them after I had played the game for the first time)



KotoR had an entire universe painted for it in games, movies, books, comics, merchandise, and more - so its biggest concern was writing a good story in a well known world. The Witcher had no great wealth of material to stand upon and so had to create the world for the people at the same time it was telling the tale. Both are great games, but don't underestimate just how much the Witcher had to go through to become a successful product.



Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights likewise had a vast wealth of material to draw off of - what with the Forgotten Realms setting being well and long established, adventures having been laid out, written and played for it, novels showcasing the setting, and more. Not to downplay the amount of work and quality storytelling that went into either - but they were no worse off for subject material than the Witcher and to suggest otherwise is to demonstrate your ignorance of the one while you condemn the other for the same thing.

[matt1284]

I really hope that they add more realism.

That seems to be a popular idea here.



I have to agree on the 2011 games list.

DX:HR is top of my list. But Im a HUGE fan of both the first ones.

AND TW2 looks incredible. Im going to reinstall TW so I can play through and actually beat it.



But I have my high hopes for DA2.

I loved the first. It was a refreshing change from most games, yet after playing it I hope they smooth it out.



Realism...

Panning out how a person would ACTUALLY react. The Witcher did it beautifully.

I hope da2 can expound on it.

[hoysexyjew]

AllThatJazz wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Anything from The Witcher would be cool. Except the combat. Horrible combat.

Anything? Even the sex cards?

Don't get me wrong, I collected all the sex cards too. I just felt kind of ashamed of myself for doing it 

They had more class than DA:O's sh*tty sex scenes...

[matt1284]

Also, the games rated Mature for a reason

And da didnt fufill that reason-_-

[elearon1]

matt1284 wrote...
Realism...
Panning out how a person would ACTUALLY react. The Witcher did it beautifully.
I hope da2 can expound on it.

Realism, agreed.  In a game that is supposed to feel realistic it should be a major consideration.  I have nothing against surrealism, or outright fantasy if that is what I'm going in for - but when something touts itself as "dark" we expect realistic responses to the setting and story. 

[Ulicus]

Weldridge: The events of The Witcher were set after the books, rather than being a direct adaption. To lambast it for being "unoriginal" means we have to do the same to Baldur's Gate and KotOR for daring to be set in universes that already had stories before they were released.

[matt1284]

I hate to bring it up again, but Oblivion is still an excellent choice of a fantasy rpg.

I have a lot of things to compare these games to.



But other than the game being able to relate interaction, real interaction, real action-reaction principals, filling the Holes in the story!



Take a step back and look at it: there is a GREAT deal of story to this game, so much lore behind what's going on right Now.

If everything falls into place how it's supposed to, Hawke's experiences occur DURING your warden's escapades, giving you another way to look at the events in Origins, correct?



They CLEARLY have a big picture of where they're going with this. And all of us would want to say it's for Hawke to become a warden.

But even so...the Arch Demon was killed in Origins.

I unfortunately haven't gotten my Awakening to work, I only got about a quarter of the way into it and had to reformat, so I have to start EVERYTHING over again. There are relations I don't understand from Awakening that has to play into da2 as well.



I hope they tie this together right..

[marko2te]

matt1284 wrote...

I hate to bring it up again, but Oblivion is still an excellent choice of a fantasy rpg.

Oblivion is one of the worst games I ever played and I started my gaming with Atari in late 80s.

[matt1284]

If that were the case I wouldn't have played through it 4 different times.



The thing with it is, it had the concept of "depth" covered.

How you wish you had more armor, more weapons, more items

Oblivion had it.

[Mallissin]

I want the sex cards from the Witcher, except they should be like Magic the Gathering and you can only beat the end boss if you have a powerful deck.

[marko2te]

matt1284 wrote...

If that were the case I wouldn't have played through it 4 different times.

The thing with it is, it had the concept of "depth" covered.
How you wish you had more armor, more weapons, more items
Oblivion had it.

Its a matter of taste, I finished it once and never returned to it. To me depth in rpg is measured by quality story, dialogs and choices and consequences not loot.

[AlanC9]

Exactly so. The things Oblivion does well -- and there are a few -- happen to be the things I don't care about. Plus it completely fails at -- or doesn't attempt --  some of the things I do care about.

TW and DA, meanwhile, do well at the things I want an RPG to do.

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 août 2010 - 04:08 .

[DraCZeQQ]

Oblivion is teribad ... please dont bring this trash here ...

[marko2te]

AlanC9 wrote...

Exactly so. The things Oblivion does well -- and there are a few -- happen to be the things I don't care about. Plus it completely fails at -- or doesn't attempt --  some of the things I do care about.

Have you played older Bethesda games Daggerfall, Battlespire and Morrowind, there is a reason that older TES fans like me consider Oblivion a step back in series. Altough Fallout 3 showed that they have started moving in right direction.

Sorry for offtopic.

[matt1284]

There are things in the witcher I havent seen

And I need to finish through it...because I will have tw2 as soon as possible.



What would be your biggest drawback from da?

[AlanC9]

The only older TES game I've played is Morrowind. I thought the lore was great, and the game was an adequate vehicle to explore the lore.



All this proves is that I don't like Bethesda's approach to RPGs. Doesn't bother me as long as Bio doesn't try to be like them.

[matt1284]

I very much respect that opinion.

And I completely understand your points of view.

However I never played any of the other Elder Scrolls, unfortunately.

[DragonRageGT]

I've played most of them.

Morrowind is a very good game and Oblivion gave me over 1,000 hours of great fun.(at least that's what my 2 main chars show with over 500 hours each in their record) If it were a bad game, it would never have had a large fan base and it has. (9.5 users' score with 36k votes at GameSpot/ 9.4 critics' score) Oblivion is a lot better with Mods, of course.

A bad game is Dungeon Lords. (6.3 score from 1,300 users .. eh.. for that one I'd follow the critics' score of 4.8 or even less)

The fact that you in particular may have not liked it does not make it true. And actually, I don't understand why some people acts as though loyalty to a game or gaming house is equal to trashing everything else.

Lots of people can enjoy a whole range of different games, just like they can enjoy a wide range of musical styles. The fact that I love classics doesn't mean I can't love Heavy Metal and Pop, Blues and Jazz, Rock and Dance. There are great pieces and bad ones too in any of them

Gothic, Risen, Morrowind, Oblivion, BG, NWN, TW and prolly many more that I don't know or don't remember right now, are great games. Fortunate are those who can enjoy any or all and do not necessarily need to trash the others to show one's love for a game.

(how can someone like FO3 w/out liking Oblivion? they're the same game w/ different graphics! which is why I could not play FO3 - I cannot touch Oblivion again... od'ed on it and of course, the queue advances and new and more enjoyable stuff appeared)

Modifié par RageGT, 01 août 2010 - 08:08 .