1507 réponses à ce sujet

[Abriael_CG]

Mycrus Ironfist wrote...
o'common... when diablo came out it blew away any game of that era...  i have been playing games since KQ1

And then Baldur's Gate came and blew that diablo hackfest away.

And that's why many of us are here. Too bad that Bioware seems to be very much set on not releasing products of that caliber anymore.

[elearon1]

>>Nor do I see it as roleplaying when all I control is Geralt's combat moves.<<



....And a number of the decisions he makes, how he deals with conflicts between his duty and morality, help define his philosophical outlook on a few subjects, determine what his thoughts on relationships are, not to mention what he says in conversations. Like the other guy said, 5% of a game is not enough to base an impression on. Though to be fair, if you didn't like the game then you didn't like it - I won't try to change your mind (as that is not the point of this thread) and you don't try to convince me it's not a roleplaying game.



You make a good point, though, in that when you are provided with a - even partially - defined character it becomes more difficult to make you care about them. Since we aren't deciding Hawke's back story I hope Bioware has developed other ways to make us care about the character early in the game.

[AlanC9]

Addai67 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I just wish Addai67 had explained how TW's prologue is any weaker than, say, a DA origin.

I cared about my character in Origins.

Do you know why? You mentioned that you don't get to control much about what Geralt does in the early game, but you've got about as much control over what happens to him as you do over what happens in one of the origins.

[DragonRageGT]

Addai67 wrote...

Kenrae wrote...

That's like... 5% of the game at most. You can't talk about the depth of a game you've played 5% of.

I realize that, but I'm not going to spend hours and hours trying to delve into a game that has given me nothing to care about.  Every author knows you grab your readers on the first page, in the first paragraph if possible.  Nor do I see it as roleplaying when all I control is Geralt's combat moves.

Anyway, as this is apparently a thread about how great the game is, I won't rain on the parade any longer.

See, I don't think you even got to the part where Geralt gets to choose anything. From saving a waitress of a bunch of rapists, discover and punish the hipocrisy of the villagers, find out about a fanatic Priest that expelled his pregnant daughter from home to make her a wh0re in the city, the gard that raped his girlfriend and caused her to poison herself, the respectful villager that had killed his brother in his sleep out of envy because he was a coward and his brother was a knight, the witch that was blamed for everything as if she caused them all to behave like that and it is up to you to save her or let them burn her at the stake...

This only in the Outskirts and there are more there too. To save an old friend from some racists humans, to help or not the elves which are later called terrorists and later, to meddle into a strong and deep political struggle beetween powerful forces that are not that clear to identify at all and make choices, lots of choices, most of them very important and very grey.

If you had paid attention to the first cutscene at the start of the game and taken the time to investigate who is that guy with amnesia, to read the books in Kaer Morhen and learned about Witchers and how that fortress came to be in ruins, you might have stated to care for Geralt as much as you can do with any Origins char you may create.

And later on, as you advanced through the chapters, you'd be rewarded with amazing twisting plots, more choices, cool detective/CSI quest with very different outcomes depending on how dedicated to the lore of the land you played, cool references to stuff like The Da Vinci Code and the meaning of the Holy Graal or Sang Real, Destiny or Free Will, the search for your identity.

All, of course, mixed with fun poker games, fistfights, seduction and rejection, drinking contests, cool suprises for exploring and trying all that you could try, while developing Geralt abilities to awesome levels.

Geralt's combat moves are also one of the most awesome things in the game, specially as you develop his abilities. One of the best in any games too! You said "Nor do I see it as roleplaying when all I control is Geralt's combat moves." My guess is that you did a very poor job at that (the control of the proper timing for attacks and the early development of your Steel sword abilities) and could not kill the Barghests that attacked you at night near the shrines, got frustrated and quit. Or the Ghouls or those nasty Echinops plants. Did you even got to that part?

See, I wouldn't bother to respond or to try to show you all above but when "you don't see" The Witcher as a RPG and compare it to a FPS (is Modern Warfare a FPS? I really have no idea. Never bothered even to read about it) while millions of people around the world do love it specially because it is an amazing RPG, I'd say that the problem is with you and not with the game.

I can only imagine how many amazing books you also didn't read because the first page or the first paragraph didn't "hooked" you right on. You couldn't be more wrong about books either!

P.S.: And pard my English or grammar mistakes. This is not even my language! And let me make clear that Dragon Age is my favourite game, with Gothic and The Witcher close too. (and BG, NWN and a few more not RPG's, but only DA got me to make over 100 videos of it!)

Modifié par RageGT, 05 août 2010 - 06:16 .

[Celticon]

I liked the execution moves in The Witcher on downed enemies. It'd be nice if Dragon Age 2 had some warrior skills that could only be activated against stunned or knocked down enemies, with devastating effects.

[GodofTheForge]

The Witcher FTW. If Bioware decides to take a few notes from CD Project, then all the better

[joriandrake]

Celticon wrote...

I liked the execution moves in The Witcher on downed enemies. It'd be nice if Dragon Age 2 had some warrior skills that could only be activated against stunned or knocked down enemies, with devastating effects.

We call those execution moves I believe, and I prefer them to appear sometimes on their own, and not have to click on something "at the right time" or having to make combo moves to make them

[Addai]

RageGT wrote...

If you had paid attention to the first cutscene at the start of the game and taken the time to investigate who is that guy with amnesia, to read the books in Kaer Morhen and learned about Witchers and how that fortress came to be in ruins, you might have stated to care for Geralt as much as you can do with any Origins char you may create.

I paid attention, and I always read lore stuff.  The cinematic at the beginning was very long and seemed mostly to demonstrate Geralt's BAMF ability to leap across rooftops.

Geralt's combat moves are also one of the most awesome things in the game, specially as you develop his abilities. One of the best in any games too! You said "Nor do I see it as roleplaying when all I control is Geralt's combat moves." My guess is that you did a very poor job at that (the control of the proper timing for attacks and the early development of your Steel sword abilities) and could not kill the Barghests that attacked you at night near the shrines, got frustrated and quit. Or the Ghouls or those nasty Echinops plants. Did you even got to that part?

I think I said I got to the outskirts village?  The combat did not frustrate me, I just found it boring.  I had consulted a game guide re. timing attacks, different fight styles etc.  I said I lost interest in the game.

See, I wouldn't bother to respond or to try to show you all above but when "you don't see" The Witcher as a RPG and compare it to a FPS (is Modern Warfare a FPS? I really have no idea. Never bothered even to read about it) while millions of people around the world do love it specially because it is an amazing RPG, I'd say that the problem is with you and not with the game.

You can say that about any game.  That's as meaningless as saying someone who likes this movie but not that movie has a personal problem.  WTF?

[Addai]

AlanC9 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I just wish Addai67 had explained how TW's prologue is any weaker than, say, a DA origin.

I cared about my character in Origins.

Do you know why? You mentioned that you don't get to control much about what Geralt does in the early game, but you've got about as much control over what happens to him as you do over what happens in one of the origins.

By the time I even started an origin, I had already put thought into who my character was.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Not to troll. But why waste creative thought into a constrained environment instead of using it for open purposes?

[Kalfear]

AlanC9 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I just wish Addai67 had explained how TW's prologue is any weaker than, say, a DA origin.

I cared about my character in Origins.

Do you know why? You mentioned that you don't get to control much about what Geralt does in the early game, but you've got about as much control over what happens to him as you do over what happens in one of the origins.

See this is where the old Alanc9 appears!

Hosre pooy you had no control over your origin character.
I played the game 12+ times and had 12+ different outcomes because I had control over the character!

Its like you know what your saying is wrong but you cant help going back to the tried and true mindless fanboi rant!
You were doing so well for a while there!

And Abbi, you have no right to talk about The Witcher, you basically just admitted to quitting after the Tutorial ended! Of course you had no control over Geralt, you were in the tutorial learning about the game and its mechanics! The REAL GAME starts at those dog attacks and thats where you quit!

Your veiw on the Witcher as relevant as my veiw on Modern Warfare 2 (I never played it) or as relevant as Gamespots or IGNs reveiw of Mass Effect 2 (they never played it).

You need to play the game to have a accurate opinion of the game! 

Fact is you do have ALOT of control over Geralt because the story is written in a way that your given control.

The Witcher is every bit as good as DA:O and both are tied as my #2 game of all time.

[Onyx Jaguar]

He has been in this entire thread



Seriously dude you are ridiculous

[Kalfear]

Addai67 wrote...

RageGT wrote...

If you had paid attention to the first cutscene at the start of the game and taken the time to investigate who is that guy with amnesia, to read the books in Kaer Morhen and learned about Witchers and how that fortress came to be in ruins, you might have stated to care for Geralt as much as you can do with any Origins char you may create.

I paid attention, and I always read lore stuff.  The cinematic at the beginning was very long and seemed mostly to demonstrate Geralt's BAMF ability to leap across rooftops.

Geralt's combat moves are also one of the most awesome things in the game, specially as you develop his abilities. One of the best in any games too! You said "Nor do I see it as roleplaying when all I control is Geralt's combat moves." My guess is that you did a very poor job at that (the control of the proper timing for attacks and the early development of your Steel sword abilities) and could not kill the Barghests that attacked you at night near the shrines, got frustrated and quit. Or the Ghouls or those nasty Echinops plants. Did you even got to that part?

I think I said I got to the outskirts village?  The combat did not frustrate me, I just found it boring.  I had consulted a game guide re. timing attacks, different fight styles etc.  I said I lost interest in the game.

See, I wouldn't bother to respond or to try to show you all above but when "you don't see" The Witcher as a RPG and compare it to a FPS (is Modern Warfare a FPS? I really have no idea. Never bothered even to read about it) while millions of people around the world do love it specially because it is an amazing RPG, I'd say that the problem is with you and not with the game.

You can say that about any game.  That's as meaningless as saying someone who likes this movie but not that movie has a personal problem.  WTF?

Actually the opening cutscreen is basically the fight you read about in "The Last Wish" and paramount to this games story. Alot of stuff wouldnt end up making sense with out that opening movie!

Again, you need to play the game to form a credable opinion. You have played the tutorial, you have no idea whats in the game or how it runs/feels as you never gave it a chance.

[elearon1]

>>The cinematic at the beginning was very long and seemed mostly to demonstrate Geralt's BAMF ability to leap across rooftops.<<



Well, there's the issue right there. While Geralt's ability to do slightly greater than human acts is clearly explained in the material, if you did not like the opening cinematic (which ties back to the princess later and is a *very* important part of her story) then you were not going to like the game. The Cinematic is a near blow by blow account of that event from the story (save a few details you really need to a have read the story to get completely) and in addition to setting up some events later in the game, gives you a pretty good impression of what the game setting will feel like.



Again, it is a matter of taste.

[Celticon]

joriandrake wrote...

Celticon wrote...

I liked the execution moves in The Witcher on downed enemies. It'd be nice if Dragon Age 2 had some warrior skills that could only be activated against stunned or knocked down enemies, with devastating effects.

We call those execution moves I believe, and I prefer them to appear sometimes on their own, and not have to click on something "at the right time" or having to make combo moves to make them

It can't be too easy. But adding reaction skills opens up a whole new world of possibilities. If you're grabbed by an ogre or overwhelmed by a spider, wouldn't be nice if you had a timed skill that would allow you to escape or debilitate your enemy?

In DA:O you still had to click on things at the right time. If you freeze enemies, you'd have to immediately follow up with stonefist/any critical skill to shatter them. They won't just shatter on their own.

[elearon1]

>>wouldn't be nice if you had a timed skill that would allow you to escape or debilitate your enemy?<<



Yes it would, and it annoyed the hell out of me that such a thing didn't exist. Basically if I started to get mauled it was game over and aside from using ranged attacks there wasn't really a way to avoid that. They needed something to dislodge you in those situations ... there are ways to fight angry dogs irl, and while they are painful if you're a talented fighter they shouldn't result in you getting the living hell torn out of you.



And, I was thinking that while The Witcher type timed special maneuvers wouldn't work for the entire party in DA2, it might be a cool bonus if they were available only to your main character.

[Celticon]

If an enemy is stunned or knocked down, you get to deliver a coup de grace.

If you are overwhelmed or grabbed, the character uses a small backup weapon (like a dagger) or a spell to break the enemy's grip.

If an enemy missile-type spell like fireball or stonefist is about to hit you and you character is equipped with a shield, your reaction skill allows you to absorb the impact with your shield and resist knockdown and a good chunk of the damage - if you time it right.

Dodge maneuvers - if you see an enemy warrior casting mighty blow or some other slow/strong move, you can move out of the way to avoid their attack. This is something that annoyed me in DA:O. Enemies could still hit your character even if you moved out of the range of their attack, as long as they initiated their attack or skill before your movement. Then there were the ridiculously large AOE skills like fireball that couldn't be avoided period.

Modifié par Celticon, 05 août 2010 - 07:10 .

[Nerevar-as]

To Abbi and anyone else who doesn´t know, AFAIK, the first Witcher tale (the one of the cinematic) was included with the game in some way, PDF I think.

One thing Witcher has far more of than DA was no win situations: whatever you did there was no perfect outcome. Going back to ME2, what I really missed was Virmire, a point where a choice would have a high cost no matter what. There was no way to save them both (if you cared for both), in ME2 you could get everything right if you know how to.

In DA this depends on who you like, got a friend who didn´t care at all for Morrigan or Alistair, so he was perfectly happy with redeeming Loghain. The happiest situation in the Witcher for me, curing the werewolf, is even lampshaded in game.

[AlanC9]

Kalfear wrote...
See this is where the old Alanc9 appears!

Kalfear, why do you always personalize stuff? I have zero respect for you, but I don't go bringing it up all the time. I figure your immaturity and inability to engage in reasoned discourse speak for themselves.

The amusing part is that you're trying to pick a fight where we actually agree on the substance.

Hosre pooy you had no control over your origin character.
I played the game 12+ times and had 12+ different outcomes because I had control over the character!

I'm talking about comparing a single DA origin to TW's intro area. Obviously a game with six different starts will have more variety if we compare its six areas to another game's one, just as DA's starts must be more diverse than BG1's single start. 

My fault for not restating the obvious. I forgot you were reading the thread.

[In Exile]

Celticon wrote...

I liked the execution moves in The Witcher on downed enemies. It'd be nice if Dragon Age 2 had some warrior skills that could only be activated against stunned or knocked down enemies, with devastating effects.

I thought it was awesome how it applied to pretty much almost all characters. So if you were after a trophy quest, used aird and got a knockdown, it was instant kill.

And I loved how alchemy was absolutely neccesary to win on normal. Swallow with rubedo essence and herbalism were absolutely critical, and that really made you feel like a witcher with the potions.

joriandrake wrote...

We call those execution moves
I believe, and I prefer them to appear sometimes on their own, and not
have to click on something "at the right time" or having to make combo
moves to make them [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

I don't think you played the Witcher. Knockdown instant kills did not need to be timed, short of having to not sit around and not click on your character to attack, which if you disable tactics and in DA you often had to remind your characters to attack a target if (for example) it moved away.

RE: Witcher in General

I honestly bought the game after reading some threads here on it. I was very much not drawn to Geralt as a main character and had no interest in playing the game, but honestly, some performance issues with the EE aside it's an absolutely brilliant game. In many ways, as an RPG in terms of choice and consequence, it is far superior to DA.

[DragonRageGT]

Addai67 wrote...

RageGT wrote...

If you had paid attention to the first cutscene at the start of the game and taken the time to investigate who is that guy with amnesia, to read the books in Kaer Morhen and learned about Witchers and how that fortress came to be in ruins, you might have stated to care for Geralt as much as you can do with any Origins char you may create.

I paid attention, and I always read lore stuff.  The cinematic at the beginning was very long and seemed mostly to demonstrate Geralt's BAMF ability to leap across rooftops.

I think I said I got to the outskirts village?  The combat did not frustrate me, I just found it boring.  I had consulted a game guide re. timing attacks, different fight styles etc.  I said I lost interest in the game.

You can say that about any game.  That's as meaningless as saying someone who likes this movie but not that movie has a personal problem.  WTF?

Sorry, my bad. I actually meant the first in game cutscene not the Intro Cinematics. The one where a guy with no memory is rescued by some people and brought into a fortress in ruins.

Yes, you said you got to the Outskirts. For all I know, it simply means you reached the Inn. But apparently you never left the Inn past the gate where you had to fight the first Barghests. Since you didn't answer my question in that post, I can only assume.  "Or the Ghouls or those nasty Echinops plants. Did you even got to that part?" - I'd say no.

And since you brought movies into this, what you said about TW being more like MW than a RPG, is like saying "The LotR trilogy is more like Transformers action style movie than a fantasy movie based on Tolkien's work.". And I said nothing about "liking" this or that. I said you have a problem identifying what is a RPG. You can dislike it all you want but saying that it is more similar to Modern Warfare than to a RPG is... weird.

[AlanC9]

RageGT wrote...
...is like saying "The LotR trilogy is more like Transformers action style movie than a fantasy movie based on Tolkien's work.".

Actually, there are some questionable action-film bits in the LOTR films. The collapsing stair in Moria (did we really need to set up a dwarf-tossing gag?), the whole mumak-killing bit , etc.

[DragonRageGT]

In Exile wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

We call those execution moves
I believe, and I prefer them to appear sometimes on their own, and not
have to click on something "at the right time" or having to make combo
moves to make them [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

I don't think you played the Witcher. Knockdown instant kills did not need to be timed, short of having to not sit around and not click on your character to attack, which if you disable tactics and in DA you often had to remind your characters to attack a target if (for example) it moved away.

RE: Witcher in General


I honestly bought the game after reading some threads here on it. I was very much not drawn to Geralt as a main character and had no interest in playing the game, but honestly, some performance issues with the EE aside it's an absolutely brilliant game. In many ways, as an RPG in terms of choice and consequence, it is far superior to DA.

I think he got confused about the final attack of a 4-5 skill combo with the knockdown which gives a coup-de-grace and kills whatever is knocked down in one hit.

Nerevar-as wrote...
...
The happiest situation in the Witcher for me, curing the werewolf, is even lampshaded in game.

Not to mention that we must give up a very powerful Story-based Talent upgrade mutagen if we choose to remove the curse from VM.

But the happiest situation for me is the unique compliment we get to pay to a godess who is tired of people worshiping her "soul" ... and of course the divination of her desire afterwards... a godess! That was worthy the game! (I just got it in this run... never really tried it on the previous ones. - "Your *** put others to shame!" ... remember that when complimenting a godess!
(if only we had that option with Witherfang! *sighs*)

Modifié par RageGT, 05 août 2010 - 09:09 .

[DragonRageGT]

AlanC9 wrote...

RageGT wrote...
...is like saying "The LotR trilogy is more like Transformers action style movie than a fantasy movie based on Tolkien's work.".

Actually, there are some questionable action-film bits in the LOTR films. The collapsing stair in Moria (did we really need to set up a dwarf-tossing gag?), the whole mumak-killing bit , etc.

Well, there are action packed sequences in Dragon Age. Lots of them.  Does that make it a pure action game and not a RPG?

[AlanC9]

I don't think DA could be classed as an action game since it doesn't rely on my personal reflexes. But TW does. If your definition of RPG is pure stat-based combat, then TW has to be some sort of genre hybrid.