1507 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreadstruck]

To me it seems you haven't been either paying attention to it(e.g. skipping it alltogether "oh another wall of text") or just couldn't get arsed to finish it.

Our taste in RPGs differs, yes, but I would like to hear the "flaws" of the BG series from you.
But please, don't give me that "No ME2 cinematic scenes", because honestly, we are talking about a 1998 game.

BTW: You have also skipped my question about the other features that were in the game.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:23 .

[DarthCaine]

MGS1 was a 1998 game, and I consider it to be greatest game ever made. The Curse of Monkey Island is a 1997 game and I much prefer it over any RPG before 2003. Heck, Broken Sword 1 is a 1996 game and it's far better than any game of the 90s (excluding MGS1).

None of those features you mentioned really matter if their presentation sucks. I don't care about graphics, but if there's no voice acting the game becomes VERY dull and isn't in the least bit immersive.

EDIT:

I know none of the games I mentioned are RPGs, which is exactly my point, old RPGs suck and comparing them to any RPG post 2005 is like comparing a 90s adventure game to a text adventure game from the 80s (meaning any voiced 90s adventure game > any text adventure)

Of course there are exceptions, for one I prefered PS: T over VTMB, NWN1 and Deus Ex: IW.

For reference, here's my top 19 RPGs: (out of those that I have played and finished)

01. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
02. Mass Effect 2
03. The Witcher
04. Dragon Age: Origins
05. Mass Effect
06. Fallout 3
07. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
08. Alpha Protocol
09. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords
10. Deus Ex
11. Fable: The Lost Chapters
12. Jade Empire
13. Neverwinter Nights 2
14. Planescape: Torment
15. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
16. Fallout 2
17. Fallout
18. Deus Ex: Invisible War
19. Neverwinter Nights

Modifié par DarthCaine, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:37 .

[Pedrak]

About voice acting: I've posted this before but I feel it's worth repeating

http://www.escapistm...Voice-vs-Choice

Modifié par Pedrak, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

DarthCaine wrote...

I do read books, but it's not the same when I'm staring at a monitor (even in PS:T I just scanned through the text and skipped some of it). I never play sequels if I haven't finished the first part, so I've only played like 10 min of BG2

Well then, since you never even came close to finishing the first game, and only played 10 minutes of the second(adn better one), you're harldy in position to judge, are you?


BG2's presentation is just fine and dandy. Some games age well, Others don't. BG2 aged farely well. It's still playable and fun and immersive. Content >> packaging
If you cannot enjoy anything that isn't modern and full of frillss and shinies, then I can only feel sorry for you.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[Pedrak]

Also, ironically, the first 10 minutes of BG2 (the infamous Irenicus dungeon) are widely acknowledged to be the least interesting part of the game.

Modifié par Pedrak, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:54 .

[DarthCaine]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I do read books, but it's not the same when I'm staring at a monitor (even in PS:T I just scanned through the text and skipped some of it). I never play sequels if I haven't finished the first part, so I've only played like 10 min of BG2

Well then, since you never even came close to finishing the first game, and only played 10 minutes of the second(adn better one), you're harldy in positionh to judge, are you?

Why not? If I see vomit on the street I don't need to go tasting it if I know it's disgusting. I don't need to watch a whole movie to know it sucks if I've fallen asleep after 30 min.

If I don't finish a game it's because I disliked it. If I liked it, then of course I would have finished it

Modifié par DarthCaine, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:56 .

[Pedrak]

DarthCaine wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I do read books, but it's not the same when I'm staring at a monitor (even in PS:T I just scanned through the text and skipped some of it). I never play sequels if I haven't finished the first part, so I've only played like 10 min of BG2

Well then, since you never even came close to finishing the first game, and only played 10 minutes of the second(adn better one), you're harldy in positionh to judge, are you?

Why not? If I see vomit on the street I don't need to go tasting it if I know it's disgusting. I don't need to watch a whole movie to know it sucks if I've fallen asleep after 30 min

Ok, but you are judging a >150 hours game on the first 10 minutes - which were set in a fairly generic, railroaded dungeon which is - I kid you not - the worst part of the game. In fact, the mod which allowed to skip it was one of the most popular...

It's perfectly ok to dislike BG2 (hey, I love it, but I realize tastes are very different), and I understand the argument that a game should be gripping from the start - but really, you're missing some great stuff here ...

Modifié par Pedrak, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[DarthCaine]

Pedrak wrote...

Ok, but you are judging a >150 hours game on the first 10 minutes - which were set in a fairly generic, railroaded dungeon which is - I kid you not - the worst part of the game. In fact, the mod which allowed to skip it was one of the most popular...

It's perfectly ok to dislike BG2, and I understand the argument that a game should be gripping from the start - but really, you're missing some great stuff here ...

I only played BG2 for 10 minutes. I played BG1 for a few hours. It doesn't really matter since BG is the same crap as any other old RPG, and I didn't really liked those due to the barely any voice acting part, which is why BG wouldn't be anywhere near my top 10 RPGs even if I forced myself to play through it

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]DarthCaine wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Why not? If I see vomit on the street I don't need to go tasting it if I know it's disgusting. I don't need to watch a whole movie to know it sucks if I've fallen asleep after 30 min.

If I don't finish a game it's because I disliked it. If I liked it, then of course I would have finished it
[/quote]

Yes, you do. You cannot make an informed decision based on a few glimpses. You're not even trying to.

There are games I tried and didn't like, or games that from the very trailer concluded I wasn't interested in.
But I'd never go and say they sucked or that they are ****.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DarthCaine wrote...

I only played BG2 for 10 minutes. I played BG1 for a few hours. It doesn't really matter since BG is the same crap as any other old RPG, and I didn't really liked those due to the barely any voice acting part, which is why BG wouldn't be anywhere near my top 10 RPGs even if I forced myself to play through it

Wrong. BG1 and 2 have quite a few differences. If you'd bothered to paly a bit, you'd notice.
Just like some people are hung up on graphics (we call those peopel graphics ****s), you seem to be hung up on VO'.

[DarthCaine]

Everybody has different opinions. From my experience BG sucks meaning I didn't like it. I'm not supposed to force myself to like it, the game is supposed to make me like it

People don't finish some games because they find them boring, not because they liked them

Modifié par DarthCaine, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[SirShreK]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I only played BG2 for 10 minutes. I played BG1 for a few hours. It doesn't really matter since BG is the same crap as any other old RPG, and I didn't really liked those due to the barely any voice acting part, which is why BG wouldn't be anywhere near my top 10 RPGs even if I forced myself to play through it

Wrong. BG1 and 2 have quite a few differences. If you'd bothered to paly a bit, you'd notice.
Just like some people are hung up on graphics (we call those peopel graphics ****s), you seem to be hung up on VO'.

Can I say with some wisdom (perceived Wisdom i.e. not the real deal) that I can add something here?

I like the game Cuthtroats: Terror at the High seas. It has ugly graphics but I played it as a child. Its more like Nostalgia. The earliest RP game I played was Betrayal In Antara. I still would love to play (but Play I can't) even if its graphics are outdated.

But I played BG and BG2 quite recently. I could not play them through because of the aversion of bad graphics. Saying It sounds like hypocracy but I think the reason is that Nostalgia allows us to overcome ****ty graphics.... So it works for those who have that advantage. For those who don't it doesn't work....

Modifié par SirShreK, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[Dreadstruck]

Thing is that you didn't give that game a chance. Not even a little one.

I couldn't play Penumbra Overtue due to the lack of weapons but I just got over it and understood what the developers were aiming for. And I enjoyed the game.
It's not a torture if you can get over yourself.

old RPGs suck and comparing them to any RPG post 2005

Oh? And that is because? Maybe it's just me but you sound like it's a common fact around here.
To me it seems that you ARE really hung up on the graphics or you have a simple "Aesthetics>gameplay" philosphy which I don't agree with.

But I understand. Text hacking a monster in Dungeon Master or Might & Magic can be more boring than button mashing an ogre to death animation sequence..

But I played BG and BG2 quite recently. I could not play them through
because of the aversion of bad graphics. Saying It sounds like hypocracy
but I think the reason is that Nostalgia allows us to overcome ****ty
graphics.... So it works for those who have that advantage. For those
who don't it doesn't work....

Aaah, nostalgia. The same old excuse.
I can't understand all this talk about the graphics. It's not like you have just a bunch of pixels rolling around in 3 colors in BG.

Does THIS:
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:a-mS05GsjuDndM:http://mathiasbynens.be/images/92b.png&t=1[/img]

look better than THIS?
[img]http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/540/540065/baldurs-gate-1998-20040818041321532.jpg[/img]

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:36 .

[Damariel]

Faz432 wrote...

Damariel wrote...

hmmm yes... new interview (29 min) ... so look if you are interested.



In English language

Wow they've taken constructive critism from the presentation on board and are going to change the game accordingly!!? (female tourture boobs), that's pretty impressive. Everything I've heard about TW2 has been awesome tbf and I think it's very impressive that they're having a non-transitional open world without having to compromise on great graphics or story as some people would have us believe is nessersary.

I've not played TW1 but soley based on what I'm seeing from TW2 I'm definitley getting it soon.

yes you can say anything about CD-Projekt ... but not that they don't listen critics and fans.

[DarthCaine]

Avalla'ch wrote...

Thing is that you didn't give that game a chance. Not even a little one.

It has the same problems present as Fallout/PS:T, so I don't need to think twice. And if the first few hours don't grasp me, then you're asking me to force myself to like it (people keep misunderstanding me, I played BG1 for a few hours which is far more than a little chance, BG2 for about 10 minutes, and BG2 seemed like the same crap, but I don't wanna play BG2 because I only play sequels if I've finished the first part)

It's not a torture if you can get over yourself.

Unfortunately, I can't get over it. PS: T was short which was the only reason I finished it and I really doubt BG has a better story, as the story was the ONLY thing good in PS: T (and the characters)

old RPGs suck and comparing them to any RPG post 2005

Oh? And that is because? Maybe it's just me but you sound like it's a common fact around here.

Do I have to write IMO on every single sentance?

To me it seems that you ARE really hung up on the graphics or you have a simple "Aesthetics>gameplay" philosphy which I don't agree with.

Graphics? No, I still play adventure games from the early 90s as well as PS1 games. However, like I said, it's the presentation which I value the most in a game. RPGs without voice acting are one of the least immersive types of games (well I supose Morrowind could be an exception)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[Quercus]

Damariel wrote...

hmmm yes... new interview (29 min) ... so look if you are interested.



In English language

Good find, that was a nice interview.
I like what they are doing with the combat and skill upgrades in the shape of gameplay change rather then more dmg change. And have the ability to choose between killing someone with combat or letting them live by using fist fights.

The Witcher 2 is really shaping up to become the best RPG of 2011.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:22 .

[DarthCaine]

Shiroukai wrote...

Damariel wrote...

hmmm yes... new interview (29 min) ... so look if you are interested.



In English language

Good find, that was a nice interview.
I like what they are doing with the combat and skill upgrades in the shape of gameplay change rather then more dmg change. And have the ability to choose between killing someone with combat or letting them live by using fist fights.

The Witcher 2 is really shaping up to become the best RPG of 2011.

Unless ME3 somehow comes out in 2011 I'm pretty sure it WILL be the best RPG of 2011, and with it probably my GOTY

[zahra]

@DarthCaine



I salute you sir. Putting down BG II in this forum is akin to stomping on a [insert religious tome here] in a [insert religious place of worship here].



I agree that no V.O and crappy graphics are a hindrance to immersion and roleplaying but BG II managed to do it anyway, for 2 million people and counting. That right there is the magics.

[ErichHartmann]

Diablo III will outsell all RPGs combined coming out next year.  On a side note I'm intrigued by Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.  Despite very few details.  2011 - 2012 will be packed with RPGs.     

38studios.com/news/kingdoms-amalur-reckoning%E2%84%A2-revealed

Oh and a 2012 release for ME3 is a sure bet. 

[Pzykozis]

I might have to try BG2, after giving BG1 a whirl the other year when I went through Deus Ex and PS:T I gave up on the idea of BG2, BG1 was just too dated.



As for TW2, should be a great game, but it's just different from DA so meh, I just look forward to both of them.

[Quercus]

Also more commentary on the 'fixated' reviewer, about the boobs thing.

www.neoseeker.com/news/14863-witcher-2s-nude-woman-torture-scene-being-reconsidered/


I think CD-Project will still have her topless, but it will be more focused on the "poor woman being tortured".

[ErichHartmann]

Shiroukai wrote...

Also more commentary on the 'fixated' reviewer, about the boobs thing.

www.neoseeker.com/news/14863-witcher-2s-nude-woman-torture-scene-being-reconsidered/


I think CD-Project will still have her topless, but it will be more focused on the "poor woman being tortured".

So they're already thinking about censoring the game?  Very disappointed if they tone down anything.

[Quercus]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

Also more commentary on the 'fixated' reviewer, about the boobs thing.

www.neoseeker.com/news/14863-witcher-2s-nude-woman-torture-scene-being-reconsidered/


I think CD-Project will still have her topless, but it will be more focused on the "poor woman being tortured".

So they're already thinking about censoring the game?  Very disappointed if they tone down anything.

They never said anything like that, nor will they ever censore it. They say that they are thinking on remaking the scene so that prudents don't see a porn star, but rather a woman being tortured (I did saw that the first time, but w/e). So my guess is that if they do change it, it will enhence the woman being tortured, but she will most proberly still be topless.

[Governor Tarkin]

DarthCaine wrote...

Avalla'ch wrote...

Seems like you don't have much of an imagination Caine.

Like I said, I read books, but a game isn't supposed to be like a book.

Comparing BG to DAO is like comparing a text adventure to The Curse of Monkey Island. In other words the former is outdated and boring

Text adventure is not boring. For people like you who want games filled with noises and sounds. Yeah, I can understand the appeal. But just because it is 'outdated' means nothing to mean.

Is a slient flim stupid and boring because it has no sound? Nope, I love it actually. Movies like Speedy and the 1917 Coney Island(small short flim) are highly enjoyable. DarthCaine, please do not just slam on the text adventures. There are still plenty around the internet today and many people still love playing them. They deserve respect today and in the future when your great "Dragon Age of robotic heads and invisble walls" is 'oudated'.

[nhsk]

Heh I still play monkey island from time to time.. :] - Better plot, better humour and better gameplay than todays rubbish that had all their given resourses wasted on a graphics and the like.



For me, gave up on Witcher in second chapter - Found it annoying, bad voice acting, found it worse than Shepards line "I should go" (would have done better on text...) and horrible combat system plus a horrendeous quest system.



Mmm anything that should make it.. Can't find many positives tbh, ehh no nothing from the witcher should carry over IMO.