1507 réponses à ce sujet

[nov_pl]

Vaeliorin wrote...
Grey morality gets kind of boring when everyone basically sucks, and you're still forced to pick a side (for example, why couldn't I off Abigail and all those stupid villagers?

Wouldn't that be wiered?
"Hey Abi, I saved your life and now I'm gonna take it, we'll be even..."<_<

[AlexXIV]

javierabegazo wrote...

Night and day rotation would be amazing

season actually too. I liked how I came back to ostagar and it was all snowy.

[nov_pl]

RageGT wrote...


And hey, even Gothic 3 became the Epic it promised to be.. after patch 1.12 but specially after the 900MB community Patch, now in version 1.74. Talk about love for a game by a great community!

Oh yes, that I've got to admit, with community-created Enhanced Edition it's pretty differend game, and even with just few first patches (i guess with 1.5) i finished the game with nV6600 and 512 RAM, and G3 was still one of my favourites

Modifié par nov_pl, 31 juillet 2010 - 02:17 .

[Vaeliorin]

nov_pl wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
Grey morality gets kind of boring when everyone basically sucks, and you're still forced to pick a side (for example, why couldn't I off Abigail and all those stupid villagers?

Wouldn't that be wiered?
"Hey Abi, I saved your life and now I'm gonna take it, we'll be even..."<_<

Actually, I'd have like to have the opportunity to kill her before we ever left the cave, so I wouldn't have saved her life at that point.  Or I suppose I could have let the Beast eat her...that would have been oddly appropriate.

[errant_knight]

Shiroukai wrote...

I'm pretty sure a lot of you RPG lovers have played The Witcher as well, and found its likes and dislikes about it.
What I would like to know of you guys though, is which elements of The Witcher you would like to see in Dragon Age 2.

As for me, I really liked the realistic mature aspect of the game. When people badmouthed someone, it was really badmouthing and not just some child friendly calling someone a cheese head. Dirty allys had not only thugs, but prostitutes as well. And some people didn't mind showing some skin here and there.

Other then that I really liked the choice and consequence that happened between chapters (heard it will be implemented in DA II as well, but I would still like to point that one out).

Sometimes choosing lesser evil because there were no good.

Night/Day rotation, with their added effects.

Well, this is why I'm not interested in The Witcher, myself. I like the humor and fun of DA, and it combined with difficult choices and mature themes. Really not all that interested in spending my time in a grim, ugly place. Day/night rotation night be nice, though--although it's a drag when stores are closed and you have to kick your heals until morning....

[Kalfear]

slimgrin wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Crippledcarny wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Alright we are way off topic. Let me try and steer it back.

To CD Projekt red's credit, they are looking to games as diverse as Mass Effect and Arkham Asylum as models for TW2. I say Bioware should have the same philosophy. Steal what works.

Pretty sure any combat system other than pause and play is going to make the hard core dice roller fans filp a ****.

That's because pause 'n' play is awesome and there's no good reason to replace it with anything else.
ME, in specific, is a horrible example to base further RPG gameplay on. It took two systems that just don't mix and tried to mix them. Most RPG and Shooter fans didn't like the combat. ME2 is more of a shooter game, which is fine, but should be kept to shooter style games and not RPG style games.

Excellent story and chracter progression is something that can be added on to any genre or game and doesn't really bear much weight in the argument.

I wasn't necessarily advocating a change in combat for DA2. But there are elements from other games I wish Bioware would consider taking a look at, like the way choice and consequence was done in TW,  moving npc's, day and night cycles, etc.

Theres also the fact that in TW2 there will supposedly be three main story arcs, one for each playthrough. This kind of stuff sounds good to me.

See Slim (heheh heyas stranger) for me, the big deal of TW2 is not that they taking stuff from action games and what not.

The big thing about The Witcher 2 (from what we know) is you look at it and you know its the sequel to The Witcher. No new character, improved but not brand new art style, (I can go on and on but those two things should drive home the point im making). CD Projekt were smart enough to keep WHAT WORKED and what players felt connected to from the first game into the 2nd game.

Yes they changed and upgraded a boat load of stuff but we still know, from a glance, what game it is, even with Alpha screen shots. You show me Dragon Age 2 screen shots and I have no clue what game its for with out being told before hand.

There is alot of things, as you said, that Bioware could have learned from CD Projekt, but the number one lesson to be learned is you dont totally and completely rewrite a sequel with new characters, new art, new dialog, new everything. If your doing that, you ALSO give it a NEW NAME that stands on its own and its own IP!

Thats the big lesson Bioware should have learned from CD Projekt IMO and one of the main reasons Im personally buying the Witcher 2 over DA2. One is sequel im sure ill enjoy. One is a new franchise im not sold on yet.

[Kalfear]

Crippledcarny wrote...

My problem isn't that they exist but that they're done in a very poor fashion. People in the game will have unrealistic sex with you, some times even as a reward for a quest. How many of you women out there felt like ****ing the bag boy becuse he helped you to your car?

LOL, what world you living in? The night club/bar industry is created and supported by women that will jump your bones for opening a car door for them (and less).

There is nothing in The witcher that I havent seen, experienced, or heard of in the real world regarding sex and how its protrayed!

[Bryy_Miller]

Kalfear wrote...

but the number one lesson to be learned is you dont totally and completely rewrite a sequel with new characters, new art, new dialog, new everything. If your doing that, you ALSO give it a NEW NAME that stands on its own and its own IP!

But they kinda said at the very beginning that there would be a new main character every game.

Dragon Age is not about the character's continuing story. It's about the world.

Context is key.

[yummysoap]

I haven't played much on the Witcher, and from what I saw it seemed decent, but there is one aspect of it that bugged me so much.



Let me be straight, I like swearing in games. I liked that it was included in Mass Effect 2, and I always light up with joy whenever I hear a nice hearty "F*CK" being bellowed about, but The Witcher wasn't just profane, it was like a thirteen year old just discovering offensive words and attempting to spout them at every possible chance to show how "dark", "edgy" and "rebellious" he is. Other people seem to think that this makes the game mature; I just saw it as juvenile.

[Morroian]

Kalfear wrote...

There is alot of things, as you said, that Bioware could have learned from CD Projekt, but the number one lesson to be learned is you dont totally and completely rewrite a sequel with new characters, new art, new dialog, new everything. If your doing that, you ALSO give it a NEW NAME that stands on its own and its own IP!

Yeah yeah yeah just keep everything nice and safe and static with only small changes.

The Witcher series is clearly focussed on 1 character, DA is focussed on the world, hence the changes. Its funny too, some of the stuff they're changing in DA2 is moving more towards the Witcher, being able to play as only 1 race and fully voiced. If DAO had these already then there wouldn't be nearly the storm there has been, and if you don't mind this sort of gameplay why are you criticising DA2?

Modifié par Morroian, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:37 .

[flixerflax]

Elements of the Witcher I'd like to see in Dragon Age 2:

Day and night cycles for every location instead of a static time for each area.

Meditation/sleeping

Advanced alchemy and herbalism w/ the ability to experiment with ingredients and formulae.

The ability to attack neutral or friendly characters, and possible consequences for doing so.

More moral ambiguity.

Food and drink with benefits and side-effects.

Scenic outdoor vistas that give a sense of exploration and openness, less claustrophobic areas.

[DragonRageGT]

Kalfear wrote...
The big thing about The Witcher 2 (from what we know) is you look at it and you know its the sequel to The Witcher. No new character, improved but not brand new art style, (I can go on and on but those two things should drive home the point im making). CD Projekt were smart enough to keep WHAT WORKED and what players felt connected to from the first game into the 2nd game.

Yes they changed and upgraded a boat load of stuff but we still know, from a glance, what game it is, even with Alpha screen shots. You show me Dragon Age 2 screen shots and I have no clue what game its for with out being told before hand.

There is alot of things, as you said, that Bioware could have learned from CD Projekt, but the number one lesson to be learned is you dont totally and completely rewrite a sequel with new characters, new art, new dialog, new everything. If your doing that, you ALSO give it a NEW NAME that stands on its own and its own IP!

Thats the big lesson Bioware should have learned from CD Projekt IMO and one of the main reasons Im personally buying the Witcher 2 over DA2. One is sequel im sure ill enjoy. One is a new franchise im not sold on yet.

Man, I hear you! I've played Gothic 2 many times (and G3 too after - I love the series) before I was able to get my hands on Gothic I. (it was never released where I live and I could only buy a digital version a few years ago) Now, after finishing G1, Gothic2 is a whole new game for me. It made a lot more sense and I could not wait to start G2 again as I was about to end G1. I'm at G2 right now and I'm craving for another run in G1+G2 before I move to G3+Risen which is actually a new IP but with the best of all 3 Gothics, from the same devs.

Arcania - Gothic 4 will be a whole new thing from new devs. And like DA2, it will not be a real sequel. Just the World will be the same with some references to the previous Hero. Still to be tested before bought, for me, just like I will do with DA2. If I don't like it... trash can for them!

I'd bet that TW2 will inspire new runs with original TWEE for me. Because it is a sequel and tthat's what they do for me when I loved the first chapter. Or the second when that's all I could have to start with it, like Gothic 2, one of the most immersive and amazing RPG ever.

And while I do love DA:O as one of my best games ever, I could not even get past the first hour with Leliana's DLC. I know I will in the future but there is no way I'll stop a Gothic run for a stand-alone module of DA. And if Bioware cannot give me this urge to replay Dragon Age Origins after finishing DA2 then for me DA2 will uttterly fail.

Morroian wrote...
Yeah yeah yeah just keep everything nice and safe and static with only small changes.

The Witcher series is clearly focussed on 1 character, DA is focussed on the world, hence the changes. Its funny too, some of the stuff they're changing in DA2 is moving more towards the Witcher, being able to play as only 1 race and fully voiced. If DAO had these already then there wouldn't be nearly the storm there has been, and if you don't mind this sort of gameplay why are you criticising DA2?

Now, put a fraking ME style dialogue wheel in The Witcher 2 to see what would happen within the fans community! And like Kalfear, I'm definitely not against improvements but when you change the core of a game style like DA2 seems that will do, you should also change its title. It will not be a real Dragon Age II. It might as well just be named "The Dragon Age Effect" and it would all be fine. I may even enjoy it. At least it would leave the hope for a true sequel alive.

[DragonRageGT]

yummysoap wrote...

I haven't played much on the Witcher, and from what I saw it seemed decent, but there is one aspect of it that bugged me so much.

Let me be straight, I like swearing in games. I liked that it was included in Mass Effect 2, and I always light up with joy whenever I hear a nice hearty "F*CK" being bellowed about, but The Witcher wasn't just profane, it was like a thirteen year old just discovering offensive words and attempting to spout them at every possible chance to show how "dark", "edgy" and "rebellious" he is. Other people seem to think that this makes the game mature; I just saw it as juvenile.

You never had a cockney Brit for a roomie, have you?

[DragonRageGT]

flixerflax wrote...

Elements of the Witcher I'd like to see in Dragon Age 2:
Day and night cycles for every location instead of a static time for each area.
Meditation/sleeping
Advanced alchemy and herbalism w/ the ability to experiment with ingredients and formulae.
The ability to attack neutral or friendly characters, and possible consequences for doing so.
More moral ambiguity.
Food and drink with benefits and side-effects.
Scenic outdoor vistas that give a sense of exploration and openness, less claustrophobic areas.

You have just described Gothic II... beautifuly too! (not to mention it is a fully 3D world where one can, among other things, climb, jump, dive, swim, cook, skin a wide range of animal trophies - pelt, teeth, horn, claws, wings, stingers, heart, mandibules, etc, forge your own weapons and there is nothing like a self forged big two handed sword. woot!)

[Kalfear]

RageGT wrote...

Now, put a fraking ME style dialogue wheel in The Witcher 2 to see what would happen within the fans community! And like Kalfear, I'm definitely not against improvements but when you change the core of a game style like DA2 seems that will do, you should also change its title. It will not be a real Dragon Age II. It might as well just be named "The Dragon Age Effect" and it would all be fine. I may even enjoy it. At least it would leave the hope for a true sequel alive.

So true, If they had just called it Dragon Age: The Hawke Saga, most of my complaints and worries would not exist!

I still probably wouldnt buy the game as it seems to be more like ME2 where the story there to prop up the action rather then vise versa as you find in RPGs, but I wouldnt be ragging on it as much either.

But you know what else wouldnt be there, the 3.2 million fans of DA:O. Calling it DA2 gives the false impression this the CONTINUEING SAGA of the Warden and companions.

And thats one of my major issues with Bioware since the buy out. The honesty is gone, replaced with spin and smoke and mirrors!

Fact is most people that loved DA:O will not read up on DA2, they will just assume (rightfully) that DA2 is the continuation of the series because THATS WHAT A SEQUEL IS! A continuation. And thats what Bioware/EA is counting on. Sure they might lose a few thousand (maybe even a few multiples of ten thousands) that know about the changes from the web site but most, the mass majority, will buy the game thinking its one thing and finding out its something else entirely.

Like ME2, its going to get a boat load of false sales from people expecting one thing and getting anouther entirely different product! All because Bioware/EA couldnt be bothered to not intentionally disceive its customer base.

Ill be very interested to see the sales numbers for products like ME3 and DA3 when the smoke and mirrors crap has played out and they have to once again market on the actual product and not the reputation of the previous title!

Im sure the website fanbois will still be blinding following along like lemmings claiming they the majority in their delusions.

As you said, im not against change, just be honest about it! Dont name things in a way people thinking they going to get one thing when in fact they probably getting something entirely different, from the sounds of things.

naaa, I think ill stick with companies that being straight up with me. TW2 has a entirely new combat system and im ok with that because I feel CD Projekt understands im here for story first and formost and they not going to change its importance or standing from being that!

Anyways you right Rage, change the name to something like Dragon Age: The Hawke Cronicles or something like that that tells people upfront and clearly they are playing a new DA story/franchise that doesnt include your old favorites! That way expectations are gone. People then have no right or reason to think/expect a continuation of the old story with the old core elements. This is what they should have done with ME2 as well. Remove Sheppard and make it a different franchise with in the Mass Effect world and then try and sell the game on how IT was designed and not lie so people expected the ME1 core systems and concepts.

[Hulk Hsieh]

The choice/consquence in The Witcher is quite disapointing.

We don't get to affect the fate of the one person we should have most influence over.

Most choices except the elf/knight one have little impact on gameplay except a 2D image re-cap.

Hope they improve it in the 2nd game.

[elearon1]

yummysoap wrote...
Let me be straight, I like swearing in games. I liked that it was included in Mass Effect 2, and I always light up with joy whenever I hear a nice hearty "F*CK" being bellowed about, but The Witcher wasn't just profane, it was like a thirteen year old just discovering offensive words and attempting to spout them at every possible chance to show how "dark", "edgy" and "rebellious" he is. Other people seem to think that this makes the game mature; I just saw it as juvenile.

But that wasn't the only thing that made The Witcher edgy, otherwise I would agree with you.  But the story was simply more mature - not only darker, but willing to admit to the terrible things humanity is capable of.  It was also willing to be fun at times, but rarely silly fun - more clever, or at least slightly sublter fun.  

It dealt with hard decisions, repercussions, accusation, grey morality, racism, terrorism, and more.  The Witcher fealt like a game made for adults, not a game marketed for adults but made for teens.  

And, to the other poster, sure the Witcher 2 is using the same character and progressing his story - it could hardly do otherwise.  The Witcher series will always be limited to what it can do with one character, while DA has a whole continent and slew of heroic tales it can tell.  So in that matter they are fundamentally different.  

I still believe no one is better than the other - but bother are excellent in their own right.

[elearon1]

By the way, for anyone who hasn't read the Witcher novels, two of them have been translated into English and I encourage you to check them out. Geralt is, in his way, a young contender for a Conan-esque legacy ... though whether he will ever get it is yet to be seen. Still, they are good stories worth the read.



Speaking of which, something I keep expecting to see in a game and which I've only ever seen done once in ME, was the "this guy is too scary to fight" scene. In the first Witcher book there is a scene were Geralt's enemies freak out upon seeing a demonstration of how baddass he was ... we should get more of this in games where your character has a reputation of - or has just undoubtedly - working over many foes.



I recall a scene in the Witcher game where I'd just killed something like 8 people in a room and more guards rushed into fight me. I should think that after popping their head in and seeing me surrounded by 8 corpses in a nice little circle of gore they would have run the other direction ... I know I would in that situation.

[elearon1]

Oh yes, and if you new people picking up The Witcher have gameplay issues, post and ask people here - because most of us have had to deal with those issues and know what to do about them.

[GodWood]

I hope DA2 is as dark/darker then the Witcher.

[Greenface21]

The one thing The Witcher did very well was establishing a very dark ambiance to their world. The area designs with their musical soundtrack was impressive. Other then that I hope to never see anything else from that game come near DA2.



I think its been said before, the dialogue was very painful to go through, the combat system was unintuitive and romances/sex cards really felt like CD Projekt was trying to market towards vigorous male teens. Maybe the dialogue was better in the original Polish?



From what I've been reading The Witcher 2 is going to be toned down and more mature then the first, I am looking forward to that. As for DA2 I think it would be best if bioware did their own thing. In an ideal world both games would be awesome and there would no point for comparison.

[DPB]

RageGT wrote...

Now, put a fraking ME style dialogue wheel in The Witcher 2 to see what would happen within the fans community!

They're using short paraphrased dialogue options, so it's effectively the same method as DA2.

Modifié par dbankier, 31 juillet 2010 - 11:44 .

[Nerevar-as]

Greenface21 wrote...

The one thing The Witcher did very well was establishing a very dark ambiance to their world. The area designs with their musical soundtrack was impressive. Other then that I hope to never see anything else from that game come near DA2.

I think its been said before, the dialogue was very painful to go through, the combat system was unintuitive and romances/sex cards really felt like CD Projekt was trying to market towards vigorous male teens. Maybe the dialogue was better in the original Polish?

From what I've been reading The Witcher 2 is going to be toned down and more mature then the first, I am looking forward to that. As for DA2 I think it would be best if bioware did their own thing. In an ideal world both games would be awesome and there would no point for comparison.

At least in the EE version the dialogues felt as something taken from the books (though I played game in English and read the books in Spanish - it´s already complete by the way). Sex in the sequel from what I´ve heard so far will also be more like in the books. It isn´t very explicit (I think), years light from ASoF&I, for example.

I quite liked the combat at first, but in the last chapters I could fight by the sound of the sword alone, without looking at the screen most of the time. Only fight gave me trouble there was the wizard and only because I wanted Berengar to survive. I installed the Nightmare difficulty patch, but still haven´t played seriously at it.

[nov_pl]

RageGT wrote...




You have just described Gothic II... beautifuly too! (not to mention it is a fully 3D world where one can, among other things, climb, jump, dive, swim, cook, skin a wide range of animal trophies - pelt, teeth, horn, claws, wings, stingers, heart, mandibules, etc, forge your own weapons and there is nothing like a self forged big two handed sword. woot!)

Sir, I think our cRPG taste is very similar.
I'd have to think about it for a while but I think the Gothic 2 was my favourite cRPG. With all that you've just said there was good soundtrack and unforgetable mood of this game. I always like to get back to it!