250 réponses à ce sujet

[Vandrayke]

rhautanen wrote...

I'm actually looking forward to DA2 more and more as time goes by. I don't see any of these changes as "breaking" continuity, as long as they are done well. I trust BW to do them well. I expect DA2 to be a great game. I have come to accept that it will be different from DAO (the greatest game yet made). Of course, I actually liked TSL better than KOTOR, which according to many people makes me "insane".

lol I liked TSL more, also... until you get to the uber-rushed end of the game

[Valente11]

This OP is fail. Bioware can do whatever they wish with their IP. FYI, they are not violating the lore and therefore are not changing the continuity. Honestly, things would never improve if everyone always kept everything the exact same to please the fans.



The new art style is a massive improvement from the first game.

[darkshadow136]

Many times the way races are described in books seem intimidating when your imagination is conceiving the image, but in reality when making them for a game either from those desriptions or even concept art they dont have that same feel or intent they were ment to. So they change things up a bit in order to make it work and have the desired effect.

Old Star Trek is a good example. The klingons from old Star Trek looked very little like the Klingons from the movies or the next generation. But in the end it was a great improvement on the original designs. In the end the artistic representation whether iit be in movies shows or games is an evolving process.

Modifié par darkshadow136, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:13 .

[darkshadow136]

EDIT: double post

Modifié par darkshadow136, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:04 .

[rhautanen]

Vandrayke wrote...

rhautanen wrote...

I'm actually looking forward to DA2 more and more as time goes by. I don't see any of these changes as "breaking" continuity, as long as they are done well. I trust BW to do them well. I expect DA2 to be a great game. I have come to accept that it will be different from DAO (the greatest game yet made). Of course, I actually liked TSL better than KOTOR, which according to many people makes me "insane".

lol I liked TSL more, also... until you get to the uber-rushed end of the game

Have you tried TSL lately? There is an excellent set of mods that restores (or replaces) a lot of "original" content. I liked it better to begin with, and with these mods it's even better than that. Don't get me wrong, KOTOR was a great game, I just don't feel as fully into my character after the point where I find out about "my past".

[Mecha Tengu]

TheMadCat wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

SoR82 wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

Darkspawn look different to give them an identity different from Orcs, they look more like "twisted parodies of men" than Uruk-Hai now, and that's a good thing IMO it also makes more sense now that we know where they come from.

About the Qunari, it's already been said but, not all Qunari have horns, some have and some don't, also it does not break continuity seeing how Ogres have horns, meaning the gene is there.

Yet their amour looks more Uruk-Hai like then ever

well you know when Tolkien wrote LOTR as a sequel to The Hobbit, there were so many differences in the books. The Hobbit was meant to kinda be a children's fairy tale. Orcs were called goblins, Gandalf was actually a wizard, Elves were pansies "oh noes WOE IS ME" , Sauron was called the "necromancer", and the ring was just a magic ring and not a godly epic item. Retcons were done to incorporate the Hobbit as a more appropriate prequel to LOTR.

It was good I guess, now there were trolls, orcs, men on giant elephants, and a more dark fantasy

Eh? I believe you're mistaken on just about, all accounts there. Grant it I'm not the most knowledgeable person on Tolkeins lore but I'm almost certain you're way off there calling them retcons when they've all been clarified and/or carried over between the two books.

Tolkien wrote first and second editions for the Hobbit

[rhautanen]

darkshadow136 wrote...

Many times the way races are described in books seem intimidating when your imagination is conceiving the image, but in reality when making them for a game either from those desriptions or even concept art they dont have that same feel or intent they were ment to. So they change things up a bit in order to make it work and have the desired effect.

Old Star Trek is a good example. The klingons from old Star Trek looked very little like the Klingons from the movies or the next generation. But in the end it was a great improvement on the original designs. In the end the artistic representation whether iit be in movies shows or games is an evolving process.

Ah, Klingons. Excellent example! They evolved from the original series, to the films, then to all the later TV series. They even had the cute episode of TNG where they "visit" the original tribble episode, and Worf "explains" why the old Klingons look different.

[captain.subtle]

Explain == near-Ret-con.

[AllThatJazz]

rhautanen wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Many times the way races are described in books seem intimidating when your imagination is conceiving the image, but in reality when making them for a game either from those desriptions or even concept art they dont have that same feel or intent they were ment to. So they change things up a bit in order to make it work and have the desired effect.

Old Star Trek is a good example. The klingons from old Star Trek looked very little like the Klingons from the movies or the next generation. But in the end it was a great improvement on the original designs. In the end the artistic representation whether iit be in movies shows or games is an evolving process.

Ah, Klingons. Excellent example! They evolved from the original series, to the films, then to all the later TV series. They even had the cute episode of TNG where they "visit" the original tribble episode, and Worf "explains" why the old Klingons look different.

That is a really good example! Though I don't think Worf explains, as much as pointedly doesn't explain, heh. Isn't it explained in an episode of Enterprise? (I know most Star Trek fans hated that show, please don't kill me!)x 

[HoonDing]

BioWare could always use the 'parallel universes' cop-out, if things don't work out. Worked for Marvel & DC over the years.

[Querne]

The biggest problem is not the RECOGNIZE the game. At least the name will be on the packaging I guess.

When elves suddenly start to look like purple elephants because a designer hat this amazing idea, it´s a little bit immersion breaking.

[darkshadow136]

AllThatJazz wrote...

rhautanen wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Many times the way races are described in books seem intimidating when your imagination is conceiving the image, but in reality when making them for a game either from those desriptions or even concept art they dont have that same feel or intent they were ment to. So they change things up a bit in order to make it work and have the desired effect.

Old Star Trek is a good example. The klingons from old Star Trek looked very little like the Klingons from the movies or the next generation. But in the end it was a great improvement on the original designs. In the end the artistic representation whether iit be in movies shows or games is an evolving process.

Ah, Klingons. Excellent example! They evolved from the original series, to the films, then to all the later TV series. They even had the cute episode of TNG where they "visit" the original tribble episode, and Worf "explains" why the old Klingons look different.

That is a really good example! Though I don't think Worf explains, as much as pointedly doesn't explain, heh. Isn't it explained in an episode of Enterprise? (I know most Star Trek fans hated that show, please don't kill me!)x 

Ah no worries I liked pretty much all the Star Trek shows in different degrees. They all had their good points and bad points.

[captain.subtle]

virumor wrote...

BioWare could always use the 'parallel universes' cop-out, if things don't work out. Worked for Marvel & DC over the years.

Don't...arrggHHH..Mention...DC...arrgghh...or..Marvel...EEEK....heart..stoooopss.........working....hands....shaking....

[Chairon de Celeste]

David Gaider wrote...

I find this kind of argument a little strange. Speaking personally, I feel more ownership over Dragon Age than most... and changes don't bother me so long as they preserve what is important about the world.

To me, what's important about Dragon Age doesn't lie in one artistic style or even one type of gameplay. There are certain central conflicts and themes which are important, rules which are sacrosanct which will make the world recognizeable to anyone playing the game. If those start being screwed with, that's where you'll find me tearing around the halls at BioWare flipping tables and making a nuisance of myself with all the yelling (not that this always gets me anywhere, as us writers are sometimes considered to have bizarre priorities by other disciplines). But not otherwise.

Maybe it's easier to dwell on this stuff because that's all you're seeing, I don't know. Or maybe some people just like to dwell and would prefer everything look exactly as it once did, complete with artistic and technical limitations, and never change. Lord knows I don't get the people who go on about inventory systems or other minutiae as if that was the essence of an RPG worth preserving for its own sake, either, but I suppose different things are important to different people.

In short, I feel confident that people will recognize Dragon Age just fine. The continuity that's important-- that of the world itself-- is indeed important to us and we're not "taking a dump" on anything, thank you very much.

Well, they should listen to you more often - bottomline for even the less accepted BoWare~
and BioWare licensed games was always that the majority of players, community and game
press agreed one upon thing - the story writers have pulled the title through despite
...graphic art concerpt, combat, technical world design - what ever folks didn't like as much as
anticipated, you name it.
Thank the (place wichever deity folks fancy) the trolls, doomsayers and lore mabari are just a
minority and constructive criticism is the rule here.
(at least mostly again, lately... )

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:39 .

[Maverick827]

virumor wrote...

BioWare could always use the 'parallel universes' cop-out, if things don't work out. Worked for Marvel & DC over the years.

No thanks, I prefer my fiction to not be revolving doors for any writer who wants to make his or her own spinoff universe.

[Magus_42]

AllThatJazz wrote...
That is a really good example! Though I don't think Worf explains, as much as pointedly doesn't explain, heh. Isn't it explained in an episode of Enterprise? (I know most Star Trek fans hated that show, please don't kill me!)x 

Unfortunately, yes, it was. Some sort of disease that messed with the Klingon genome for a few decades before they cured it. It was dumb.

On topic, I find the new Qunari to be dull. The Qunari were interesting because they looked almost human, but were the most alien of the races in culture. Now they just look like rote demons. *yawn*

The fact that the horribly mutated ogres had horns, and the Qunari didn't wasn't exactly keeping me up at night. Elves don't have the predator mandibles that shrieks have either (although perhaps they do in the new style).

And, personally, I find the new art style as a whole to be a big step backwards. I do agree with David Gaider's comment that this isn't the most important thing about the game, but it is what Bioware has chosen to lead with when presenting this game to the fans, and it's not exactly building my enthusiasm for the future of the series. I would also say that these games are being released only a year apart, and the stories overlap in time, so the fact that fans might find the transition jarring should not be surprising.

Modifié par Magus_42, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:43 .

[Kritanakom]

what is wrong with your post, Kordaris? =/

I mean, besides what is usually wrong.

EDIT: ah ok you fixed it.

Modifié par Kritanakom, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:51 .

[David Gaider]

Kordaris wrote...
its when you change the look of the world they played in-imagine their blond dwarf suddenly getting purple hair, or learning that humans have cat's eyes.

Sorry, but I consider that a specious argument. No-one's talking about giving dwarves purple hair or humans cat eyes or elves butterfly wings. Those are races with an established expectation for how they look, and one of the reasons we used elves and dwarves, for instance, is drawing on the pool of collected lore regarding them.

The qunari and the darkspawn, however, are our creation-- one you have had limited exposure to, at best. Making superficial changes to how we present them is not the same as presenting elves with monkey heads, and suggesting such is not going to fool anyone-- least of all us.

Modifié par David Gaider, 31 juillet 2010 - 04:53 .

[Vandrayke]

I like most of what I have seen of the new style so far

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Marzillius wrote...

Seriously, why?

They changed the darkspawn to look like undead.
Qunari now has horns and no bronze skin colour.

These are the two first continuity fails I've encountered so far. Why do you do it? If you created darkspawn once, then don't go change it! I hate when continuity changes.

What I find most peculiar is why the Mass Effect team thought that continuity was so important that they had to come up with some half arsed excuse as to why there was an ammo system in ME2 that still fit in with the lore of the first game and its half arsed excuse as to why guns had unlimited ammo in ME1 while the Dragon Age team took elements that did not need fixing and said to hell with continuity.

I would have understood and prefered if the Mass Effect team just threw out the lore of how guns work in the first game and changed the guns to use an ammo system that makes sense but the Dragon Age team taking elements that diddnt need changing and changing them beyond recognition is just strange.

[Arttis]

captain.subtle wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I find this kind of argument a little strange. Speaking personally, I feel more ownership over Dragon Age than most... and changes don't bother me so long as they preserve what is important about the world.

To me, what's important about Dragon Age doesn't lie in one artistic style or even one type of gameplay. There are certain central conflicts and themes which are important, rules which are sacrosanct which will make the world recognizeable to anyone playing the game. If those start being screwed with, that's where you'll find me tearing around the halls at BioWare flipping tables and making a nuisance of myself with all the yelling (not that this always gets me anywhere, as us writers are sometimes considered to have bizarre priorities by other disciplines). But not otherwise.

Maybe it's easier to dwell on this stuff because that's all you're seeing, I don't know. Or maybe some people just like to dwell and would prefer everything look exactly as it once did, complete with artistic and technical limitations, and never change. Lord knows I don't get the people who go on about inventory systems or other minutiae as if that was the essence of an RPG worth preserving for its own sake, either, but I suppose different things are important to different people.

In short, I feel confident that people will recognize Dragon Age just fine. The continuity that's important-- that of the world itself-- is indeed important to us and we're not "taking a dump" on anything, thank you very much.

I am being Totally Honest when I say that I feel relieved with this promise. Thank you David.

I did not see a promise....

[Kritanakom]

David Gaider wrote...
To me, what's important about Dragon Age doesn't lie in one artistic style or even one type of gameplay. There are certain central conflicts and themes which are important

Kordaris wrote...
 I personally wouldn't mind to continue playing games with graphics like Dark Sun had provided they have complicated detailed plot

Looks like you guys share priorities! We should all be buddies and go have lunch together

Kordaris wrote...
its when you change the look of the world they played in-imagine their blond dwarf suddenly getting purple hair, or learning that humans have cat's eyes

I can see the horns being a problem if we had played a qunari in-game (though not that much of a problem, since not all qunari have horns and thus your qunari could continue not having them).
Also,
1 )I would not be shocked to see a purple-haired dwarf, since facepaint and make-up exist.
2) Morrigan is a human with cat-ish eyes.

[Arttis]

David Gaider wrote...

Kordaris wrote...
its when you change the look of the world they played in-imagine their blond dwarf suddenly getting purple hair, or learning that humans have cat's eyes.

Sorry, but I consider that a specious argument. No-one's talking about giving dwarves purple hair or humans cat eyes or elves butterfly wings. Those are races with an established expectation for how they look, and one of the reasons we used elves and dwarves, for instance, is drawing on the pool of collected lore regarding them.

The qunari and the darkspawn, however, are our creation-- one you have had limited exposure to, at best. Making superficial changes to how we present them is not the same as presenting elves with monkey heads, and suggesting such is not going to fool anyone-- least of all us.

Make female qunari look like male qunari....yes I believe you may do this.

[captain.subtle]

Arttis wrote...

I did not see a promise....

David Gaider Wrote...
To me, what's important about Dragon Age doesn't lie in one artistic
style or even one type of gameplay. There are certain central conflicts
and themes which are important, rules which are sacrosanct which will
make the world recognizeable to anyone playing the game. If those start
being screwed with, that's where you'll find me tearing around the halls
at BioWare flipping tables and making a nuisance of myself with all the
yelling (not that this always gets me anywhere, as us writers are
sometimes considered to have bizarre priorities by other disciplines). But not otherwise.

I call that a promise, unless you want the literary word being mentioned. And there is NO need to pick a fight with me.