Well, I could be misreading what was posted, but what I interpreted as him calling our exposure "limited" was that the average game of DA is probably between 30 and 60 hours depending on the player. In contrast, the development team at Bioware has been working on the game for years.
Now I have no idea if they originally wanted to do X or Y with Darkspawn or Qunari (although I suspect yes given that they are doing it now), but it is at least plausible to me that they wanted to do things with the art in DA:O that they couldn't due to the limitations of the engine.
However, I fully admit that this is 100% conjecture and I have no evidence whatsoever.
Why is BioWare taking a dump on continuity?
Débuté par
Marzillius
, juil. 31 2010 11:01
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#177
Posté 01 août 2010 - 07:43
Aratham Darksight
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Yes, but people make a lot of effort not to acknowledge this.Kranaos wrote...
I thought Qunari were supposed to have horns in the first place. They have them in the lore I think just not in Origins because of clipping issues with armor and helms.
#178
Posté 01 août 2010 - 07:43
captain.subtle
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Its This:
Story NOT heavily violated and only art changed. Fine. Go ahead.
Story NOT heavily violated and only art changed. Fine. Go ahead.
#179
Posté 01 août 2010 - 08:03
Lintanis
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Aratham Darksight wrote...
Yes, but people make a lot of effort not to acknowledge this.Kranaos wrote...
I thought Qunari were supposed to have horns in the first place. They have them in the lore I think just not in Origins because of clipping issues with armor and helms.
You get people still moaning about things even when the Devs and Writers come on here and to say if it is true or false
#180
Guest_JoePinasi1989_*
Posté 01 août 2010 - 08:23
Guest_JoePinasi1989_*
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I wish they'd change the darkspawn back to the Origins version, but as long as there's an explanation for the new appearance, I'm happy.
#181
Posté 01 août 2010 - 08:23
AngryFrozenWater
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There are also people on this forum who believe all the marketing hype of BioWare. That's even more funny.Lintanis wrote...
Aratham Darksight wrote...
Yes, but people make a lot of effort not to acknowledge this.Kranaos wrote...
I thought Qunari were supposed to have horns in the first place. They have them in the lore I think just not in Origins because of clipping issues with armor and helms.
You get people still moaning about things even when the Devs and Writers come on here and to say if it is true or false
#182
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:00
Bryy_Miller
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Lintanis wrote...
Aratham Darksight wrote...
Yes, but people make a lot of effort not to acknowledge this.Kranaos wrote...
I thought Qunari were supposed to have horns in the first place. They have them in the lore I think just not in Origins because of clipping issues with armor and helms.
You get people still moaning about things even when the Devs and Writers come on here and to say if it is true or false
I think that it's more of a problem with people's perceptions of what the devs being on the forums actually means. They see Gaider or Kirby responding, and their first reaction is that being rude and confrontive works.
#183
Posté 01 août 2010 - 09:12
wicked_being
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JoePinasi1989 wrote...
I wish they'd change the darkspawn back to the Origins version, but as long as there's an explanation for the new appearance, I'm happy.
The genlocks jumped ship since Two Worlds 2 offered to pay higher talent fees.
#184
Guest_Magnum Opus_*
Posté 01 août 2010 - 01:45
Guest_Magnum Opus_*
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Might also be the difference in perspective between the player and The One Who's Writing the History Of the Ever-Unfolding World, too.David Gaider wrote...
Maybe it's easier to dwell on this stuff because that's all you're seeing, I don't know. Or maybe some people just like to dwell and would prefer everything look exactly as it once did, complete with artistic and technical limitations, and never change. Lord knows I don't get the people who go on about inventory systems or other minutiae as if that was the essence of an RPG worth preserving for its own sake, either, but I suppose different things are important to different people.
In short, I feel confident that people will recognize Dragon Age just fine. The continuity that's important-- that of the world itself-- is indeed important to us and we're not "taking a dump" on anything, thank you very much.
Themes and grand histories... these don't mean so much to me. Not yet, anyway. Having played one game, an add-on, and most (but not all) of the official DLC, I lack the perspective needed to bring these themes and histories into view.
What I can see as a player, though, is that my character from Origins was somehow missing his armor and his sword on being imported into Awakening. For a player on the verge of being jumped by darkspawn, these are life-and-death important little bits of continuity that are missing. To a developer... just a sword, and oyu'll find a better soon enough. To a player... I'M FLIPPIN' NAKED HERE AND THERE ARE DARKSPAWN CHARGING AT ME OMGOMGOMG!!1. As a player I can see that my Ultimate Sacrifice warden was someone alive and well for Awakening, as if that particular choice/ending simply didn't happen or just didn't matter. And, I can also see the qunari, who by all accounts in Origins, didn't have horns. The codex doesn't contain much information on their physical appearance, but given "White-haired, bronze-skinned giants, a head again taller than any man, with frighteningly calm demeanors and a sort of sparkling fire behind their eyes"... a fairly up-close-and-personal sort of description; you'd think they'd have mentioned horns somewhere, no?
*shrugs*
Mostly, I think it boils down to perspective. What's important to you as a writer, I suspect, simply isn't what's important to me as a player, and I'm curious as to how much of that will translate into the changes you guys n' gals are making for DA2. My personal feeling is that it will end up affecting my own sense of the setting far more than you're anticipating, but we'll see.
Might be something to keep in mind, though. For both players and developers.
#185
Posté 02 août 2010 - 07:01
Bryy_Miller
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It's so cute when the forum suggests that the developers don't know anything about their games.
#186
Posté 02 août 2010 - 07:16
AlanC9
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Magnum Opus wrote...
What I can see as a player, though, is that my character from Origins was somehow missing his armor and his sword on being imported into Awakening. For a player on the verge of being jumped by darkspawn, these are life-and-death important little bits of continuity that are missing. To a developer... just a sword, and oyu'll find a better soon enough. To a player... I'M FLIPPIN' NAKED HERE AND THERE ARE DARKSPAWN CHARGING AT ME OMGOMGOMG!!1.
Ummm.... you're thinking that was a deliberate design choice rather than just bad implementation? Otherwise I don't see the relevance.
As a player I can see that my Ultimate Sacrifice warden was someone alive and well for Awakening, as if that particular choice/ending simply didn't happen or just didn't matter.
If you thought that choice mattered, why did you play him in Awakening? I agree that doing the Orlesian Warden makes little sense if Bio wasn't going to support the US, but the only person resurrecting your dead Warden was you.
Or are you making a more general point that DAA showed a certain degree of... carelessness?
#187
Guest_Magnum Opus_*
Posté 02 août 2010 - 10:48
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A general sense of carelessness more than anything for the former, although in the case of weapons not being imported I suspect it was more the sense of it not being worth the effort than them setting out to deny anything. From my perspective, though, it still counts.
I keep hearing "the devil is in the details" from the writers on these boards, but it seems they're very selective about which details they're referring to sometimes.
For the latter, my US warden made just as many choices as the ones who survived, after all, and I would very much have liked to see the effects of those changes. A little blurb at the beginning of Awakening explaining that yes, this particular Warden you've just imported made that sacrifice, so here's the Orlesian we're going to give you instead (in that same timeline) would have been just fine by me.
What I was expecting was a resurrection of the timeline, not of the warden himself. That grand "history of the world" Bioware keeps talking about.
*shrugs* To my mind, Bioware certainly does need to work on their consistency. From the way their mechanics work all the way up to the major events of the stories they're telling, it seems to me as if their games are becoming increasingly arbitrary, and that's something I find irritating because it shuts me out of the experience.
@Bryy: if that's what you got out of my post, you need to read it again.
I keep hearing "the devil is in the details" from the writers on these boards, but it seems they're very selective about which details they're referring to sometimes.
For the latter, my US warden made just as many choices as the ones who survived, after all, and I would very much have liked to see the effects of those changes. A little blurb at the beginning of Awakening explaining that yes, this particular Warden you've just imported made that sacrifice, so here's the Orlesian we're going to give you instead (in that same timeline) would have been just fine by me.
What I was expecting was a resurrection of the timeline, not of the warden himself. That grand "history of the world" Bioware keeps talking about.
*shrugs* To my mind, Bioware certainly does need to work on their consistency. From the way their mechanics work all the way up to the major events of the stories they're telling, it seems to me as if their games are becoming increasingly arbitrary, and that's something I find irritating because it shuts me out of the experience.
@Bryy: if that's what you got out of my post, you need to read it again.
#188
Posté 02 août 2010 - 11:03
The Hardest Thing In The World
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Magnum Opus has some pretty good points there, DAA is such a blot for the DA franchise.
"if the players dont have a problem bringing back the US warden, the same goes for us". Think youre pretty clever saying that? How about those who has a problem with that? Not to mention the bugs in that game.
"if the players dont have a problem bringing back the US warden, the same goes for us". Think youre pretty clever saying that? How about those who has a problem with that? Not to mention the bugs in that game.
#189
Posté 02 août 2010 - 12:20
Jimmie_Rox
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rhautanen wrote...
I'm actually looking forward to DA2 more and more as time goes by. I don't see any of these changes as "breaking" continuity, as long as they are done well. I trust BW to do them well. I expect DA2 to be a great game. I have come to accept that it will be different from DAO (the greatest game yet made). Of course, I actually liked TSL better than KOTOR, which according to many people makes me "insane".
As did I, although I hate Peragus, I always felt that as a game intro level for a RPG it took far to long until you actually hit the point where the game stopped being so bleeding linear. Not to mention once you've played the Peragus bit through it makes every following playthrough boring as hell for the first wee while. Apart from that I enjoy TSL more than KoTOR, but in the same vane people also tell me I'm insane because I think ME1 is more fun than ME2 and that COD4 is massively better than MW2, that Civ3 is a better game than Civ4, that EVE is better than WoW and that Heart of Darkness is one of the best books ever written.
Well if I'm not mistaken BW covered their arses for new look darkspawn at Ostagar when the sergeant with the dead genlock says that they're "getting reports of things they've never even heard of" and unless I'm very much mistaken I remember something about how darkspawn change in the blight? But then on the subject of continuity I always thought the protheans looked like those tentacle mouthed statues you see all over Ilos and not giant bug things with triangular heads and 4 eyes. They tried to explain that by saying they were genetically re-engineered but not so much that EDI couldn't identify them from a comparison with remnants of prothean DNA recovered on Ilos which was a little break in continuity that could have been easily explained away by saying that it turns out Ilos was built on the ruin of one of the civilizations that came before the protheans.
#190
Posté 02 août 2010 - 02:31
odiedragon
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Marzillius wrote...
Seriously, why?
They changed the darkspawn to look like undead.
Qunari now has horns and no bronze skin colour.
These are the two first continuity fails I've encountered so far. Why do you do it? If you created darkspawn once, then don't go change it! I hate when continuity changes.
I hate it too, man. Right there with you on this one.
Though honestly by the time we learned about the changes in the DS and the Qunari it was just salt in already heavily salted wounds. My rage over this has passed, now I'm just dissapointed that I won't get a continuation of a game that I truly enjoyed. Which is compounded by the fact that so few games hold my interest anymore, but DA:O was special. And now, for all the promise of a "sequel" we're getting something that's akin to having bought an original painting done by an artist we enjoy and appriciate, but being told that any new pieces by this artist will not be produced, and only knockoffs sold in hotel conference rooms as "art" will be avaliable. No thanks.
It's the potential greatness that we're sad over losing. And all these changes away from the original just continue that moement.
#191
Posté 05 août 2010 - 02:31
Ryllen Laerth Kriel
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Just_mike wrote...
As for Qunaris, arent there like, 2 Qunaris in the entirety of Origins and Awakening combined? Maybe some look like Sten, but saying an entire people looked like one person would be silly dont you think? We havent seen, or at least, I havent seen many Qunaris to say definitively that this is what they looked like. Putting horns on em, meh.
Actually if you take Sten into the Circle tower, his dream sequence has his comrades back alive so you get to see three more Qunari...who look a heck of alot like Sten, no horns.
On a seperate note, another forum poster mentioned clipping issues with helmets...massive armor clips itself all the time in the game so I'm not sure why they didn't include long hair and cloaks anyway. The existing hair models clip all the time. I'm guessing they were operating under the "more clipping is worse" mantra but there's alot of it going on already. Luckily people have modded the long hair issue. They should of tossed in the Qunari horns and cracked a whip behind those armor modelers or just made specific helms fit Sten...which would of made perfect sense too considering his larger and is supposed to have horns.
#192
Posté 05 août 2010 - 02:33
Collider
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We barely see any Qunari in DA:O. Only a few. We didn't exactly have a nice sample size.
#193
Posté 05 août 2010 - 03:18
Novadove
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the whole DA2 fail because DA2 and DA1 are 2 different product all together.
no story continuation,
different art style, DAO realistic, DA2 disney like
DAO can play different race, DA2 force u to play an idiot call hawke
no story continuation,
different art style, DAO realistic, DA2 disney like
DAO can play different race, DA2 force u to play an idiot call hawke
#194
Posté 05 août 2010 - 03:24
In Exile
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odiedragon wrote...
. And now, for all the promise of a "sequel" we're getting something that's akin to having bought an original painting done by an artist we enjoy and appriciate, but being told that any new pieces by this artist will not be produced, and only knockoffs sold in hotel conference rooms as "art" will be avaliable. No thanks.
Or maybe the artist just decided to switch from realism to cubism. Shocking, I know.
#196
Posté 05 août 2010 - 04:06
Riona45
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Novadove wrote...
the whole DA2 fail because DA2 and DA1 are 2 different product all together.
So? Baldur's Gate 2 was rather different from the original Baldur's Gate.
no story continuation,
That seems to be false, based on what the devs have said.
different art style, DAO realistic, DA2 disney like
It doesn't appear Disney-like to me in any sense, based on the very few screenshots that have been released. A different art style isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it doesn't make a sequel less of a sequel, necessarily.
DAO can play different race, DA2 force u to play an idiot call hawke
Hawke will be an idiot only if played that way. It's possible to play an elf or dwarf as an idiot as well.
Modifié par Riona45, 05 août 2010 - 04:06 .
#197
Posté 05 août 2010 - 04:23
Novadove
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Riona45 wrote...
DA2 changed because "Bioware FELT like it" you dont get the why, but you get the answer stuffed right into
your mouth
Answer to the architect?
Answer to alister after becoming the king?
Answer to everything?
there is no answer. if there is no apparent answer, how can you say it is true that bioware continues the story?
DEV already said "We want to tell the story from ANOTHER perspective."
The age of dragon stays the same, but different adventure. Different adventure EQUALS to "no continuation of warden story arc in DA2". Period
ok, to be fair, i will not use the word disney. but it become more "Cartoony"
i did not say it is a bad thing but neither it is a good thing. it feel more like a kid's game rather than for mature adult like me.
DAO is a mature gloomy game. the art they use now is more "Cartoony" and drifting away from context.
Darkspawn that look like undead... do i need to elaborate more?
epic fail.
Hawke is someone else's name and we are not playing his/her job but we are actually playing as someone who is name hawke.
Warden is a job. hawke is a refugee.
Warden can be blood mage or noble. Hawke is a refugee from lothering.
You are not comparing apple to apple. Bioware is not comparing apple to apple.
Hawke: The protagonist who had escaped from Lothering to become champion of Kirkwall in the Free Marches
i will, anytime, play any race, and BEING a champion of kirkwall and call myself Jessie and not an idiotic name call hawke.
In DAO i got that freedom.
Novadove wrote...
the whole DA2 fail because DA2 and DA1 are 2 different product all together.
They were different because of Computer technology improved. Not because they switch as they felt like it.So? Baldur's Gate 2 was rather different from the original Baldur's Gate.
DA2 changed because "Bioware FELT like it" you dont get the why, but you get the answer stuffed right into
your mouth
no story continuation,
Answer to morrigan?That seems to be false, based on what the devs have said.
Answer to the architect?
Answer to alister after becoming the king?
Answer to everything?
there is no answer. if there is no apparent answer, how can you say it is true that bioware continues the story?
DEV already said "We want to tell the story from ANOTHER perspective."
The age of dragon stays the same, but different adventure. Different adventure EQUALS to "no continuation of warden story arc in DA2". Period
different art style, DAO realistic, DA2 disney like
It doesn't appear Disney-like to me in any sense, based on the very few screenshots that have been released. A different art style isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it doesn't make a sequel less of a sequel, necessarily.
ok, to be fair, i will not use the word disney. but it become more "Cartoony"
i did not say it is a bad thing but neither it is a good thing. it feel more like a kid's game rather than for mature adult like me.
DAO is a mature gloomy game. the art they use now is more "Cartoony" and drifting away from context.
Darkspawn that look like undead... do i need to elaborate more?
epic fail.
DAO can play different race, DA2 force u to play an idiot call hawke
there is a difference in playing AS a warden because warden is a vocation.Hawke will be an idiot only if played that way. It's possible to play an elf or dwarf as an idiot as well.
Hawke is someone else's name and we are not playing his/her job but we are actually playing as someone who is name hawke.
Warden is a job. hawke is a refugee.
Warden can be blood mage or noble. Hawke is a refugee from lothering.
You are not comparing apple to apple. Bioware is not comparing apple to apple.
Hawke: The protagonist who had escaped from Lothering to become champion of Kirkwall in the Free Marches
i will, anytime, play any race, and BEING a champion of kirkwall and call myself Jessie and not an idiotic name call hawke.
In DAO i got that freedom.
Modifié par Novadove, 05 août 2010 - 04:35 .
#198
Posté 05 août 2010 - 04:38
Bryy_Miller
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Novadove wrote...
Answer to morrigan?
Answer to the architect?
Answer to alister after becoming the king?
Answer to everything?
there is no answer. if there is no apparent answer, how can you say it is true that bioware continues the story?
DEV already said "We want to tell the story from ANOTHER perspective."
The age of dragon stays the same, but different adventure. Different adventure EQUALS to "no continuation of warden story arc in DA2". Period
Wow, that's awesome, that you know exactly what is going to be in a game that won't be out for eight months. Besides there being an import feature, this is all rather ludicrous assumption on its own merit.
And name yourself Jessie Hawke. That's an awesome name.
Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 05 août 2010 - 04:39 .
#199
Posté 05 août 2010 - 04:47
Novadove
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Bryy_Miller wrote...
Novadove wrote...
Answer to morrigan?
Answer to the architect?
Answer to alister after becoming the king?
Answer to everything?
there is no answer. if there is no apparent answer, how can you say it is true that bioware continues the story?
DEV already said "We want to tell the story from ANOTHER perspective."
The age of dragon stays the same, but different adventure. Different adventure EQUALS to "no continuation of warden story arc in DA2". Period
Wow, that's awesome, that you know exactly what is going to be in a game that won't be out for eight months. Besides there being an import feature, this is all rather ludicrous assumption on its own merit.
And name yourself Jessie Hawke. That's an awesome name.
if a person walks into the bank with a helmet on and a gun in his hand, everyone will assume that you are going to rob a bank isnt it? only someone as ignorant will still be standing thinking that is the town's latest circus show.
it takes basic intelligence to forsee the direction of the game and where it is heading. if you do not understand what i mean, pls go check up diablo 3's history and see how they evolve from primal cartoon artstyle to the current dark theme style.
i did not say i am going to be called jessie hawke. if that assumption of yours is true,
i bet your name in real life will be thomas linda or sandra mike. lol
your avatar says a lot about yourself really.
Modifié par Novadove, 05 août 2010 - 04:49 .
#200
Posté 05 août 2010 - 04:52
Bryy_Miller
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Novadove wrote...
if a person walks into the bank with a helmet on and a gun in his hand, everyone will assume that you are going to rob a bank isnt it? only someone as ignorant will still be standing thinking that is the town's latest circus show.
Whut?
it takes basic intelligence to forsee the direction of the game and where it is heading. if you do not understand what i mean, pls go check up diablo 3's history and see how they evolve from primal cartoon artstyle to the current dark theme style.
But that's not what you were talking about, nor what I was responding to. You were making a bunch of meaningless and quite frankly ludicrous assumptions based off of.... nothing. From "you are no longer the Warden", you assume all this stuff.
i did not say i am going to be called jessie hawke. if that assumption of yours is true,
i bet your name in real life will be thomas linda or sandra mike. lol
I was saying that you can still name your character.
your avatar says a lot about yourself really.
What is that even supposed to mean?
