886 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

After killing 30+ guardsmen and war dogs, I think the Alienage is screwed anyway.

Also it is attacked regardless of what you do in the origin anway.



Also tmp raised a good point, the Arcane Warrior thing is tops of the nasty list, but I would tie this with it since you are selling your own family member out for money.

[tmp7704]

Vaughn probably does have a point about his death having considerably more weight -- he is son of arl of Denerim and his father definitely wouldn't look lightly at that. Compared to it few guards are very much expandable and their families aren't going to have much clout (if they're even told truth about how these men died to begin with and not plain told to shut up if they know what's best for them)

Modifié par tmp7704, 12 août 2010 - 01:57 .

[Giggles_Manically]

You cant hide the little assualt the city elf and Soris get up to though, that easily people will talk.



Also in a non CE origin PT the alienage is hit just as hard, even though Vaughan is still alive.

Not trying to start an argument, but its a load of bunk that Vaughan is feeding you there, and the last act of a doomed man as it was.

[tmp7704]

Yup he's obviously trying to buy his life there. I suppose it's just one could see his offer as somewhat plausible, that is, presuming Vaughn also has reasons to hide the whole disaster from his father if he can -- seeing how he goes on his rampage only when his father is away, it's possible the arl isn't actually fully aware of his son's deeds.

Of course, since as you point out the game events follow the same path no matter the option you pick it's mostly splitting the straws on my part. Although it would be interesting if this decision actually had some long-term impact by affecting just how bad the Alienage gets it.

[Giggles_Manically]

Even if it meant screwing up the Alienage I would still slaughter Vaughan.



There is only one thing that can set me off and that is my family. If someone did something like Vaughan to one of my relatives, I wouldnt stop until they were a quivering mass of pulp that was an interisting looking stain on the floor somewhere.



That would have been an interesting effect that sparing Vaughan would have spared the Aliengae some trouble, but he probably would have had it attacked for revenge knowing him.

[Xetirox]

tmp7704 wrote...

Vaughn probably does have a point about his death having considerably more weight -- he is son of arl of Denerim and his father definitely wouldn't look lightly at that. Compared to it few guards are very much expandable and their families aren't going to have much clout (if they're even told truth about how these men died to begin with and not plain told to shut up if they know what's best for them)

Justice will be demanded regardless, and once word catches on that elves were involved, the Alienage is screwed (seriously, do you expect Vaughn or anyone in power to step in and prevent any violence from being carried out on the elves?). If anything, accepting Vaughn's deal is probably putting the Alienage at greater risk, since its terms are, specifically, that you leave the city, and without any specific individual to take the fall, then the whole place will be blamed. Anyone worried about retribution on the Alienage should not have gone on a killing spree in the castle in the first place, and it's a little too late to back out once you reach Vaughn. At that point, best thing to do is kill him, save the women, then turn yourself in afterward, take all responsibility, and give Denerim a face to enact vengeance due process upon.

Modifié par Xetirox, 12 août 2010 - 02:25 .

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Even if it meant screwing up the Alienage I would still slaughter Vaughan.

There is only one thing that can set me off and that is my family. If someone did something like Vaughan to one of my relatives, I wouldnt stop until they were a quivering mass of pulp that was an interisting looking stain on the floor somewhere.

That would have been an interesting effect that sparing Vaughan would have spared the Aliengae some trouble, but he probably would have had it attacked for revenge knowing him.

I'm not  sure I would. I've never left her because Vaughan is obviously lying but if I had a legitimate reason to believe that the Alienage would be destroyed and many of the inhabitants killed if I killed Vaughan and there would be no retribution for them without it...it would be a tough call. I'd probably leave her but I couldn't take the money and I wouldn't blame everyone else for hating me.

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm not  sure I would. I've never left her because Vaughan is obviously lying but if I had a legitimate reason to believe that the Alienage would be destroyed and many of the inhabitants killed if I killed Vaughan and there would be no retribution for them without it...it would be a tough call. I'd probably leave her but I couldn't take the money and I wouldn't blame everyone else for hating me.

Even if it was true that the Alienage would suffer more, this is one of those moments where I would throw rationality out the window.

It's like one of those psychological examples that Xandurpein mentioned in an older thread. Voluntarily sacrificing someone for a greater good is simply too hard to do even if you know that saving that life will have more negative repercussions.

While Shianni's life wasn't necessarily in danger in this case (and that's debatable if you consider how the guards thought nothing of killing the other girl you were locked with), it's still a case where the above psychological example applies.

[tmp7704]

Overall the choice is made quite easier both by Shianni being very charming person and with Vaughan insisting to keep her for the night despite common sense. Does make you wonder though if players were more willing to pick other options if say, Shianni was simply allowed to go with you (turning it more into a matter of killing as punishment for what was already done) or alternatively if Shianni was created as someone with much more negative attitude toward's the player's character.

[adneate]

It would depend on whether or not they mentioned that Shianni had just finished being raped before you show up. If they beat around the bush and don't make it obvious I imagine quite a few players would probably leave him be only to be shocked that Shianni had indeed been raped when they meet the King at Ostagar. If it is clear that Vaughan had just finished with Shianni then I'm sure regardless of what happend to the Alienage he would die by the player's hand right then and there.

[Addai]

tmp7704 wrote...

Overall the choice is made quite easier both by Shianni being very charming person and with Vaughan insisting to keep her for the night despite common sense. Does make you wonder though if players were more willing to pick other options if say, Shianni was simply allowed to go with you (turning it more into a matter of killing as punishment for what was already done) or alternatively if Shianni was created as someone with much more negative attitude toward's the player's character.

I do think it would be more of an actual choice if you were allowed to let Vaughn go and take the other women.  As it is, I don't even consider not killing Vaughn.  Even on my non-CEF characters, if they have any inkling of the scumbag he is.

[Remmirath]

As it stands, the only way I could see ever actually sparing Vaughan is if your character is motivated purely by money (and further has no morals to speak of). If there were a convincing reason to believe that killing him would have worse repercussions for the whole Alienage, then I think some more practical-minded/forewards looking characters might do it while hating it.

I think that lopping Vaughan's head off is definitely one of the more enjoyable moments of the origin. He is quite despicable.

As far as the worst thing you can do in the game, I'd say that killing the elven slaves with blood magic just for a petty boost to power is right up there. If you're a city elf, I'd say it's probably the single worst thing you can do (leaving Shianni and the others to their fate probably coming in second), considering that your father is in with them.
That's one of those things I've never actually done and would probably have a hard time doing (or at least, sympathising with a character who did).

[Zjarcal]

Halae Dral wrote...

As far as the worst thing you can do in the game, I'd say that killing the elven slaves with blood magic just for a petty boost to power is right up there. If you're a city elf, I'd say it's probably the single worst thing you can do (leaving Shianni and the others to their fate probably coming in second), considering that your father is in with them.

I had totally forgotten about this one. If done by anyone other than a City Elf, I'd say it would still be below the Shianni deal, but if done by a City Elf it would definitely be the most despicable thing one could do.

One thing about this situation, I really wish that when Morrigan makes her little comment about how it's an interesting proposal, a City Elf could tell her "My father is one of those cages!" and get to see her reaction to this. Would she back down with one of her awkward faces or would she scoff at it?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 12 août 2010 - 06:08 .

[Sarah1281]

Zjarcal wrote...

Halae Dral wrote...

As far as the worst thing you can do in the game, I'd say that killing the elven slaves with blood magic just for a petty boost to power is right up there. If you're a city elf, I'd say it's probably the single worst thing you can do (leaving Shianni and the others to their fate probably coming in second), considering that your father is in with them.

I had totally forgotten about this one. If done by anyone other than a City Elf, I'd say it would still be below the Shianni deal, but if done by a City Elf it would definitely be the most despicable thing one could do.

Especially how, if you left her there, Shianni is giving you a second chance here...and yet again you prove not to give a damn about the people you grew up with.

[Zjarcal]

Indeed.



To complete a trifecta of City Elf jerkiness you'd leave the Alienage to burn in the final battle. There's a City Elf to be proud of...

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...

To complete a trifecta of City Elf jerkiness you'd leave the Alienage to burn in the final battle. There's a City Elf to be proud of...

I had always told the alienage elves to run before, but Shianni's response if they stay and fight is pretty moving.  She's so excited that they actually did something and that you won.  Plus my Dalish chick just had to say "You can fight like elves or you can run."  A little hypocritical of her, but it sounded BAMF at the time. 

[Cypher0020]

I never take the gold. You'd have to be the worst PC in the world to do that.....



Now I luvs Shianni, about what about Soris? He's awesome too! the only elf out of the entire alienage to storm the castle....with Nelaros if you're a female......



that says a lot about his bravery......two cousins slaughtering their way through the palace to find Shianni and the other maidens= epic badass

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

To complete a trifecta of City Elf jerkiness you'd leave the Alienage to burn in the final battle. There's a City Elf to be proud of...

I had always told the alienage elves to run before, but Shianni's response if they stay and fight is pretty moving.  She's so excited that they actually did something and that you won.  Plus my Dalish chick just had to say "You can fight like elves or you can run."  A little hypocritical of her, but it sounded BAMF at the time. 

Yes! I love Shianni's reaction when they stay and fight. She seems so resigned to death when you convince them to stay and fight but once it's all over... "We did it! I...I didn't think it was possible!".

I simply love that moment.

[mousestalker]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

To complete a trifecta of City Elf jerkiness you'd leave the Alienage to burn in the final battle. There's a City Elf to be proud of...

I had always told the alienage elves to run before, but Shianni's response if they stay and fight is pretty moving.  She's so excited that they actually did something and that you won.  Plus my Dalish chick just had to say "You can fight like elves or you can run."  A little hypocritical of her, but it sounded BAMF at the time. 

Yes! I love Shianni's reaction when they stay and fight. She seems so resigned to death when you convince them to stay and fight but once it's all over... "We did it! I...I didn't think it was possible!".

I simply love that moment.

When I'm on my elves, I love the whole Alienage battle. Using the Dalish army at that point makes it even better. I tend to pause a lot and roleplay whole conversations in my head through out.

[Northern Sun]

follis2 wrote...

Can Shianni die if she joins the fight? I always told her to run in fear of losing a cool character in the game.

I've never had her die, but I've always told her to hang back. Don't know what happens if you have her defend the gate.

[Addai]

mousestalker wrote...

When I'm on my elves, I love the whole Alienage battle. Using the Dalish army at that point makes it even better. I tend to pause a lot and roleplay whole conversations in my head through out.

I hadn't thought of that.  Though I usually call out the Dalish in the final against Archie because of their ranged attack.  I love the epic feel of "the Dalish Grey Warden", as they call you in Zathrian's camp, leading a Dalish army in the final charge against the archdemon.

[Addai]

follis2 wrote...

Can Shianni die if she joins the fight? I always told her to run in fear of losing a cool character in the game.

Pretty sure she is essential, sort of like Eamon in the AD fight, because she figures in most epilogues.

[Giggles_Manically]

I always use the Legion of the dead there.

As a city elf I think she refuses to leave though, Shianni is my fave elf in game.