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[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I suppose another thing about it that bothers me is that I consider elves, humans, dwarves, and qunari to be different species instead of just different races.

Qunari are most likely different species.

However I dont think that Humans, Elves and Dwarves do count as different species.
They can and do produce healthy offspring that can have their own offspring.

Which is strange since two different species cant do this normally.
Even a Mule which is part donkey/horse is infertile.

So this would make a biological grey area.
Also outside of pointy ears, or height there is no real difference between the three species.

[Sarah1281]

That's what's so confusing about the whole issue!

Distraction Shianni!

[Giggles_Manically]

Bah who cares really at the end of Dragon Age the Warden is a hero, and a legend.

What can people do? Run a smear campign on the person who ended a blight?



Methinks not!

My current PC Cyrus is going to make Shiani the Bann, and stand behind her the whole time and make angry faces at anyone who tries stuff.

[mousestalker]

ooh pretty!



As far as dwarves, elves and humans getting it on together, dogs, wolves and coyotes can all interbreed. That might be the degree of separation.

[DragonRacer13]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd guess Human males can sleep with as many elves as they want as long as they don't start thinking about marrying them.  Women maybe similar, as long as no embarassingly pointy eared children turn up.

Alienage elves in relationships with humans can probably expected to be shunned and pretty much forced to give up the relationship or leave

Wouldn't happen since the offspring of a human/elf relationship is always human. So, no pointy-eared half-elves running around.

[Corker]

Giggles_Manically wrote...


Which is strange since two different species cant do this normally.
Even a Mule which is part donkey/horse is infertile.

But wolf-dog and wolf-coyote hybrids are not.

ETA: Not that I endorse using science in fantasy settings.  Bad things happen.  But my inner pedant is lured irresistably to your comment.

Modifié par Corker, 31 août 2010 - 09:41 .

[Zjarcal]

So I just had the Ghoulish-Tamlen encounter for the first time. I was shocked at how much it moved me. I mean, I didn't feel that attached to Tamlen during the Dalish origin story, yet the way it was done, with him begging me to kill him, literally brought me to tears.



I imagined that after everyone leaves back to their positions my PC had an emotional breakdown and spent a good amount of time crying over Tamlen's body.



Also, Alistair's dialogue after the encounter was quite good IMO. It sure helped ease the tension that has been going between him and my PC on this playthrough. Though to be honest I would've preferred if your LI had shared some words of comfort instead (assuming Alistair isn't the PCs LI of course).

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...

So I just had the Ghoulish-Tamlen encounter for the first time. I was shocked at how much it moved me. I mean, I didn't feel that attached to Tamlen during the Dalish origin story, yet the way it was done, with him begging me to kill him, literally brought me to tears.

I imagined that after everyone leaves back to their positions my PC had an emotional breakdown and spent a good amount of time crying over Tamlen's body.

Also, Alistair's dialogue after the encounter was quite good IMO. It sure helped ease the tension that has been going between him and my PC on this playthrough. Though to be honest I would've preferred if your LI had shared some words of comfort instead (assuming Alistair isn't the PCs LI of course).

Definitely the most emotional I've gotten over the game.  The first time I had that, I never saw it coming and it was such a shock.  On my most recent character, I had RPed that they were lovers, so I felt the impact even more, though I knew it was coming.  If you follow the link in my sig, I wrote a little story about the aftermath for her.  I can't link because work hates ffnet, but it's "In Uthenera."  Also I made a video of it if others haven't seen it.  It gets a lot of commentary on YouTube.

One thing I noticed only when I played the video back is that as he starts attacking he says "you left me to die".    I'm tearing up just thinking about it.  One of the things I liked and incorporated into the story is that even though Alistair is the one talking to her (which for her is appropriate, since he is her LI), Zevran is also standing right behind him looking concerned.  Just an accident I'm sure but a nice one.

The best YouTube comment and the one that sums it all up best is: "TOO FAR, ARCHDEMON, TOO FAR.  F*CK!"  Also something I hadn't thought of which a YouTube commenter pointed out is that it shows how twisted the AD is that he sends the PC's friend/ lover to get her, not just random darkspawn.  Sort of an AD terrorist attack, meant to demoralize and not just harm.  *goes into a corner to cry*

Modifié par Addai67, 01 septembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[Addai]

dream_operator23 wrote...

The Dalish are my favorite, so I have had that darned Tamlen encounter many a time. It gets me every time too. My Wardens always need some time alone after that. It's really heart-wrenching. And no, I don't particularly care for Tamlen during the Origin story either. In fact the way I tend to play my Wardens (cautious and merciful) makes my Warden and Tamlen grate against each other in the short time they are together.

I think it helps that the Tamlen in my head is more realized due to writing out my character's backstory.  I do agree that his perky "I have to look at this shady mirror thing" is annoying.

[Sarah1281]

The best YouTube comment and the one that sums it all up best is: "TOO FAR, ARCHDEMON, TOO FAR. F*CK!" Also something I hadn't thought of which a YouTube commenter pointed out is that it shows how twisted the AD is that he sends the PC's friend/ lover to get her, not just random darkspawn. Sort of an AD terrorist attack, meant to demoralize and not just harm. *goes into a corner to cry*

I never thought of that but since Tamlen only shows up in the Dalish attack when it would be really easy to have him attacking in all origins but only stop and talk to the DE Warden I think you might be right about that.

[Zjarcal]

@Addai67:

Just finished reading "In Uthenera". Well done! The way you made the death of Tamlen represent the beginning of an Alistair romance was brilliant. I also liked how you made Leliana pitch in with the song, nice touch.

I had never thought about the taint corrupting the land in such a way. Burying a tainted body really isn't an option, eh?

You're really good at this stuff. I'll catch up and read your other stories as well.

Back to the Tamlen scene, I did have Leliana stand beside Alistair as he was comforting my PC, looking concerned and all. I just wish she had been given a line as well.

Also, it was horribly twisted to listen Tamlen curse at my PC and tell her how the AD would kill her as they were doing battle. The AD really knows how to get in the Warden's head.

The Dalish origin may be lacking in connection to the main story but this encounter really makes up for it. And a thought just occurred me as my PC prepares to embark on the Sacred Ashes quest. As if this scene wasn't gut-wrenching enough, we now have to deal with Tamlen at the Gauntlet! I'm going to prepared with tissues at the ready for that one.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:02 .

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...

@Addai67:

Just finished reading "In Uthenera". Well done! The way you made the death of Tamlen represent the beginning of an Alistair romance was brilliant. I also liked how you made Leliana pitch in with the song, nice touch.

I had never thought about the taint corrupting the land in such a way. Burying a tainted body really isn't an option, eh?

You're really good at this stuff. I'll catch up and read your other stories as well.

Aww.  You're my favorite person ever today!  Actually I have to credit Sandtigress for the idea that Tamlen couldn't be buried in the Dalish way.  I was talking about this scene on the Alistair thread one day- long before I succumbed to the insanity of DA fanfiction- and mentioned I always pictured my PC asking Alistair to help her do what she had told him about, i.e. bury Tamlen next to a new tree.  And I'm pretty sure it was Sandi who pointed out that wouldn't work.  The fact that my PC and Alistair rested under a tree was symbolic too, i.e. life out of death but not in the way she had thought it would be... etc. etc.   It was also supposed to tie in to the last line of In Uthenera, "we love another day."

Leliana singing was from her In Uthenera cutscene after you do Nature of the Beast.  My favorite Leliana moment. 

The Dalish origin may be lacking in connection to the main story but this encounter really makes up for it. And a thought just occurred me as my PC prepares to embark on the Sacred Ashes quest. As if this scene wasn't gut-wrenching enough, we now have to deal with Tamlen at the Gauntlet! I'm going to prepared with tissues at the ready for that one.

Well judging from the WH trailer it looks like Gaider had something up his sleeve, or else realized people were complaining about the Dalish origin not being connected to the main story.  I think it's the former, because I've always said the Dalish origin and Nature of the Beast felt more like foreshadowing of things to come rather than tied to the DAO main story line.  There were too many "wow, this is odd, Tevinter and elven things together" and "wow, this is odd, elves and humans fighting together and fleeing some great evil."  Plus the hints that the elven idea of their own history is largely manufactured and the truth is darker.  I'm hoping that's where it goes, actually.  I'd love to find out the elves did something diabolical that aided their own demise.  Drama!

Modifié par Addai67, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[Sandtigress]

Heck yeah, David Gaider says more Dalish in DA2!! :-D This makes me very happy, as does Dalish involvement in Witch Hunt...that is if they recognize that my Kara is Dalish too.

[Sarah1281]

Do the Dalish consider elves who were born Dalish but now live among humans as true Dalish? They seem rather proud of their seperation.

[Addai]

I don't know of any who did that? They show city elves leaving to join the Dalish, but not the other way around. I would think that if you leave permanently, you'd be considered a flat ear like the rest. Maybe depending on how long you had lived away from a clan.

[Zjarcal]

Sandtigress wrote...

Heck yeah, David Gaider says more Dalish in DA2!! :-D This makes me very happy, as does Dalish involvement in Witch Hunt...that is if they recognize that my Kara is Dalish too.

It has been confirmed that being Dalish will make a difference in Witch Hunt.

@Sarah:

I suppose not. I mean, a city elf is treated like a complete outsider and a Dalish who lives amongst humans wouldn't exactly be living the Dalish lifestyle. I guess it depends on the circumstances. The Dalish warden in Origins leaves the clan out of necessity and it seems like they will always be considered a Dalish.

[Sandtigress]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Heck yeah, David Gaider says more Dalish in DA2!! :-D This makes me very happy, as does Dalish involvement in Witch Hunt...that is if they recognize that my Kara is Dalish too.

It has been confirmed that being Dalish will make a difference in Witch Hunt.

Do you know how happy you've made me?  I haven't run my canon Dalish through Awakening yet (might next week) but I'm told that Velanna has next to no recognition for a Dalish Warden.  That Kara will be recognized is great!

[Sarah1281]

Zevran's mother was Dalish, though, and when the man she left the clan for died she turned to prostitution instead of going back and so I always figured that pointed to she wasn't welcome back.

[Sandtigress]

I would think a Dalish who willingly left to live in the cities would be considered a flat-ear, and maybe worse than just a flat ear. I've always felt that the feelings on the Dalish Warden would be mixed - some would recognize the honor in a Dalish fighting the Blight, otherwise would see how they abandoned their heritage to live amongst shems. The degree of either would probably depend on the Warden in question and how much they kept or abandoned their heritage.

[Sarah1281]

Leaving to become a GW will probably be looked upon kinder than a Dalish who says 'Ooh, hot flat ear!' or 'Wow, cute shem!' and followed them back to the human world.

[Sandtigress]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Leaving to become a GW will probably be looked upon kinder than a Dalish who says 'Ooh, hot flat ear!' or 'Wow, cute shem!' and followed them back to the human world.

Honestly, I think it depends on the clan and how much they honor the Wardens.  A clan who is extremely hostile to shemlen might let that override the honor of serving as a Warden and see it as equivalent to "Ohh, hot shem", while others are not so polar.  I think you've got a lot of room to play with it either way.

For a Dalish who left for other reasons though?  Shunning is probably the answer, maybe extreme displeasure and ridicule, etc. should that elf come running back to the clan later.

[Sandtigress]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Do you know how happy you've made me? I haven't run my canon Dalish through Awakening yet (might next week) but I'm told that Velanna has next to no recognition for a Dalish Warden. That Kara will be recognized is great!

OK, I have only played Awakening once and I didn't even finish it (I need to do that before Witch Hunt), BUT the Warden I did play Awakening with is who I would consider my canon character, if I had to consider any of my characters canon (I love them all), and he was Dalish. When he met Velanna she certainly did recognize him as Dalish and in fact had quite a lot to say about the fact that he was Dalish at their first meeting.

Well!  That's good.  Poor Kara has suffered from me wanting to make good story choices for her, and being my most favoritest canon ever, I've been agonizing over it.  That plus a shortage of time to play and migraines exacerbated by the game...she'll get there soon, I hope.

Thanks for that, very few people play Dalish it seems and so no one had discounted that rumor for me.