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The All-Purpose Elf Appreciation Thread

Débuté par Sarah1281 , juil. 31 2010 09:37

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#851
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Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 05:54

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Confederate Republic wrote...

Personally, the HC would have been my favorite, hands down. I still wish it was included. Personally I always preferred to play as humans in fantasy/sci-fi games. A HC origin would combine the rogue-ish rags to riches feel of what I wanted from the CE and DC, without the racial tensions or dwarven character models. I always wanted to play a human rogue, but I can't think up a good reason to have a Rogue Noble, especially one who is identified as a soldier or warrior by NPCs based on look alone, and was said to be trained in combat by his/her father from the beginning.

Of course I'm about to be set upon by Faerunner everyone in the thread for not acknowledging the awesomeness of elves, but, nothing is without risk I guess. :devil:


Well, this is an elf appreciation thread. Image IPB

Sadly, I think the human commoner would have been popular had it been kept. David Gaider himself said that had he known as many people would play humans as they did, the devs would have completed it and dropped one of the dwarf origins instead. Since we all know the dwarf commoner origin would have been the one to get the ax, I'm very glad it stayed.

Playing humans is boring to me. I'm a human in real life, and I interact with humans every day. When I play an escapist fantasy game with fantasy races, I want to role-play said fantasy races. Role-playing video games give you a chance to be what you never can in real life, and none of us can ever be mythological creatures. (Same with sci fi aliens, really.)

Not to mention that I just love elves in general, I love the way BioWare traditionally portrayed elves (BG and NWN) and I love the way they portrayed elves here. Their history, culture and socio-economic position is a far cry from the "elite, superior" Tolkien and D&D elves we're used to seeing, and I love every minute of it. The city elf culture also reminds me of my own culture and childhood too, so there you go. To me, the city elves combine the best elements of the fantasy race and real-world emotional accessibility.

#852
HallaGoddess
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 06:05

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 Yeah I agree, and not only that but the Elves just seem way cuter(?) Don't you think the unmodded human bodies are scary? The females look like they've been weight lifting for years and just started on swallowing steroids. Ughh man shoulders. And they're so TALL! It's like a baby faced man. :o

#853
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Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 06:52

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Oh yes. I don't mind tallness or muscles if they work, but they didn't seem to work in DA:O. Image IPB

I can almost understand the human noble as she's likely had a lot of martial training (especially if she's a warrior) and would likely develop big muscles, but human mages? When did she have time to work out? She just looks like a lumbering giant next to the petite elves.

I wouldn't mind playing a female kossith though. They're tall and muscular, but in the best kind of way! ^^

Modifié par Faerunner, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

#854
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Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 10:09

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...actually, I thought the human female model's arms were teeny-tiny and fragile-looking. YMMV.

#855
HallaGoddess
Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 12:33

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 @Faerunner, OMNOMNOM! I would defs play the female kossith- they're so awesome looking!! -fangirls- will they put them in DA3 I wonder? But it's set in Orlais...so what would a Kossith be doing in Orlais? Aren't female Qunari all baby making/ non fighting types?? Hope they give us race option...I didn't like DA2's ONLY HUMAN option...but from how Leliana described the elves in Orlais kinda made me feel-- angry? :(So maybe not...
@Corker, really? they're kind of long in my opinion- very masculine- until I modded them up. Now they're quite feminine. The only fragile looking thing on the HNF unmodded was probs the face? Dunno...hmm...ahh well- it didn't stop me from playing the chars and loving it. <3:D

#856
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Posté 12 juillet 2012 - 05:52

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I don't know if female kossith will be in DA3 or not, but I hope so. After seeing the concept art, many fans were hoping to finally see the mythical female kossith in DA2, and the devs got panned for failing to deliver. I hope they learn their lesson this time around. xD

I don't know. The Antivan Crows almost never operate outside of Antiva or try to assassinate Grey Wardens, yet the writers came up with a reason for Zevran to be with the Warden in Fereldan, so maybe they can find a reason for kossith (especially female) to be in Orlais as well. If not, thankfully kossith =/= Qunari, so maybe the female kossith companion could be Tal-Vashoth. ^_^

I hope they bring race options back too! Playing a fantasy game with fantasy races but not being allowed to play them is just too constrictive! It felt physically painful to be a human--physically painful! >_<

Noo, Qunari women are not considered baby-makers. It's true that in Qunari society women are not expected to fight, but this doesn't mean the Qunari are misogynists. They just feel that women have different talents that can be better used elsewhere.

Qunari society is basically divided into three sections, thought of as the body, mind, and soul. The "body" is the military, the "mind" is the craftsmen, and the "soul" is the priests. The Arishok (always male) leads the armies, the Arigena (always female) leads the craftsmen, and the Ariqun (either male or female) leads the priesthood. Qunari women are considered the mind and soul of Qunari culture, and capable and important in many areas, just not fighting.

Modifié par Faerunner, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:59 .

#857
HallaGoddess
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 10:08

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 oohhh I forgot about that bit of info- even after reading the wiki on everything Qunari... yeah Women are quite important over there :kissing: gooooddd!

Did you like the DA2 elves? I'm personally not fond of them...Merrill made me feel like I was taking advantage of her as a Male Hawke- her eyes look like she's constantly a sob away from bursting out into tears. :crying:
And the Elves are taller? hmm.. it feels that way... :mellow::mellow::mellow:

ANYWAYS DA2 aside, Who's your fave Elf out of Zevran, Soris, and Shianni.:o

Modifié par Joannayaya, 13 juillet 2012 - 10:11 .

#858
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Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 12:45

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DA2 elves are taller. Apparently there were complaints about Zevran being too short to be a proper LI. >.<

I appreciate that they wanted a more distinct look, and it's grown on me, but it still doesn't generally thrill me. Nobody makes the Avatar/Na'avi jokes anymore, but they were pretty on-point. Also, it grates on me that both Merrill and Fenris (and later, Tallis) were very, very carefully created to look more human than most of the other elves, so that they'd be attractive enough to be LIs. Hell, Fenris's custom body is apparently 50% bigger than the standard elf male, because we can't have our f!Hawkes involved with someone slender, can we?



Hard call between Zev and Shianni, but I'd probably come down on Shianni. I'm a total sucker for a character who has the steel in her to stand up for her people, even though she isn't a bamf-y adventuring type. I think that takes more guts than when you know you can whup people with one arm behind your back.

#859
HallaGoddess
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 02:27

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I liked Zevran short- but then again I usually only romance him when I play as an Elf Warden...

And YES, if you kidnap an elf in DA2 then dunk them in a bath full of blue paint- take them out, leave them in the sun to dry- they'd be identical to those Na'avi's!

...Now I want to try doing that... -cackles- Merrill will be my first elven victim.

And Shianni does have a lot of guts, I admire her. But I love Zevran more. His accent is to die for, and unfortunately I'm shallow enough to pick him for his accent and looks. Soris has some guts as well, considering he stormed a castle full of armed guards for his cousins. I think I admire him more than Shianni.

#860
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Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 04:03

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Oh, I HATE the DA2 elves! To me, they look like malnurished livestock!

Not to mention that the elves are supposed to look attractive to humans, yet the new designs look too hideous to make it remotely believable. As Corker said, the few "attractive" DA2 elves (Fenris, Merrill, maybe Tallis) only look good because they look more human. If you have to make the new elves look more human to look attractive, but you insist on keeping the hideous design to make them look "unhuman," then you're doing something wrong. (Attractiveness and "uniqueness" doen't have to be mutually exclusive.)

Choosing between Zevran, Soris and Shianni... that is honestly a VERY tough question because I think they're all awesome in different ways. =(

Modifié par Faerunner, 13 juillet 2012 - 04:05 .

#861
HallaGoddess
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 04:20

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UGH It feels kind of like bestiality now- they look like goats.

Every time I look at them I think 'damn...Vaughan and all the other human men in Thedas find them sexually attractive!' I understand DAO Elves being attractive but...but...GOATS!

If they make the Elves in DA3 like the DA2 elves- I'll be disappointed. And will probably not buy DA4. (Because I know they'll make a DA4 and base it in either Antiva or Rivain or Par Vollen)

On to another topic- IS IT TRUE SHIANNI DIES????

#862
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Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 04:54

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It's true that there's an epilogue card where she is killed if you make her bann. This card never shows in the vanilla game, but what I've heard is that it's because of a bug. It's not deleted content, it's content that was supposed to be left in, but bugs out. (ejoslin or another modder can correct me if I got that turned around.)

So, for some values of "true," yes, in that it was intended that she die. Or, no, because it never actually happens when you play the game.

(And of course, unless Shianni somehow rediscovers elven immortality, yes, she dies eventually.)

#863
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Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 05:12

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@Joannayaya I know, right???

Not to mention that humans have compared elves to animals since the very beginning (Vaughan calls them animals, Howe calls them animals, Brother Genitivi observes in one of the codex entries that humans exploit elves as surely as they exploit halla horns, an Elven Warden can call Leliana's praise of Orlaisian nobles' treatment of well-trained, attractive elven servants as "like a prize-winning animal," etc) and now the devs made elves LOOK like animals too! Not just any animals, but dumb herd animals like sheep, deer, goats, donkeys, etc. (Come on, there's no way that was a coincidence!) To me, this REEKS of unfortunate implications!

Unfortunately, I hear they plan on keeping the new elf design. >< The silver lining though is that they say they might tweak it if need be, and since we all know it needs tweaking in the worst kind of way, I'll hold onto foolish hope that they'll blunt the worst of the new designs.

Unfortunately, if you make Shianni the Bann of the Denerim Alienage, then one of the Epilogue Slides reveals that she's murdered by a human bigot several years later. It fails to trigger due to a bad flag, but it's supposed to come up. (However, David Gaider has gone on record to say that the devs like to think of the epilogue as "rumours and hearsay." If they won't take their own lore seriously, then neither will I.)

Modifié par Faerunner, 13 juillet 2012 - 05:15 .

#864
PizzaThe Hutt
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 05:23

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I rather liked the redesign, though I still felt that it needed some work and the graphics they used in DA2 didn't really seem to work with any of the redesigns in my opinion(I feel as if I'm playing The Sims 3 instead of playing DA2).  I think that the direction they were going with the redesigns was only halfway met.  Though they will probably edit the new design...   One major thing I think they need to look at is proper anatomy and connecting it to how the different races move and are built(For example, the elf necks, please fix them)... 

I typically favour the elf origin stories more than the dwarf and human options.  I normally go with the City elves for no reason.  My most recent playthrough is a female dalish elf.  For the city elves, I like how they show the underlying hatred between the humans and eves, which is something that carries with me when I play DA2.  I liked the Dalish elves because while they did seem a bit more like the typical fantasy elves they also seemed to step away from that a bit and stretch it out.  I was hoping that they would be a bit more woodsy though perhaps putting wolf skins and whatnot or a more "nature orientated" look with their armour but I guess DAO didn't have the graphics for that or something?  I don't really have a favourite elf, I like most of the ones the PC deals with for their own little quirks :3  

I hope they have kossith playables in the next game(because kossith=\\= Qunari) the devs can change as much of the codex and add onto it as they want so it is always a possibility to play as a kossith without them even being connected to the Qun OR the Tal'vashoth without their story sounding half-arsed.  Thedas is only a part of the world and not the whole thing, there is a lot more land to be discovered in the DA universe so I'm not going to cross out that there is more kossith culture out there besides the Qun.

#865
thats1evildude
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 05:27

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I don't put much stock in the epilogue slides any more. Unless I see Shianni's cold, rotting corpse, I assume she's still alive and running things.

I'm afraid I'm one of those people who likes the new elf look. I like that they're more distinctive — honestly, some of the elven women in DAO were indistinguishable from humans, save for their height — and I find quite a few of the women attractive. (Fenris, too, but only after I've had a few beers.)

I kinda hope DA3 affords some opportunities to NOT beat up on the elves.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 13 juillet 2012 - 05:53 .

#866
Corker
Posté 13 juillet 2012 - 06:36

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I do want to chip in - DA2 only emotionally gut-punched me twice, and once involved the elves. It's minor spoilers, so I'll leave a nice big jump and you can skip if you want.















------ Spoilers -----

The Act 2 climax, when the elven viddathari are fighting with the qunari - it was so wrenching to see how badly Kirkwall had failed the elves, that they thought this was a better answer.

The other was Jansen's death. You know, the funny guy up at the Bone Pit? You never see him die, but everyone there is gone and dead in Act 3, so I assume he got killed, too. That silent off-screen death upset me more than the allegedly dramatic death in Act 2.

-----------------------------

Also, I did love the vhenadahl design in DA2.

Modifié par Corker, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:36 .

#867
HallaGoddess
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 07:03

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@Faerunner, I remember Vaughan saying something along the lines of "Such a well formed thing" in CE Origins and I was thinking "If I'm a 'thing' then why the heck do you want to put your 'you know what' in my 'you know where'?! Do you treat your Mabari's like this? Your cats? Sicko'

It made it even ickier when I saw the DA2 Elves- I was actually imagining Vaughan prancing into an Alienage in DA2 and thinking 'Hmm, which goat....which goat...'

-shivers- if the men in Thedas find something attractive in a sexual way- could they at least not compare them to/ treat them like animals? Being called a 'creature' or 'thing' then suddenly these big shem men trying to molest you is just- no...no.

It'd be equivalent to me seeing a kitty and admiring it thinking 'naww look at it with it's feline grace, look at that animal, such speed!' and then capturing it, then banging it. GROSS.:sick: (Actually now that I think about it...I can't actually bang the kitty- I'm female...hmm...yuck, no more thinking about this...ick!)

@Corker, ohh that scene made me so disappointed at the Humans in Kirkwall! If only I could jump into the game and bash a few of those bastard's heads in. -frowns- Racism is a no no.

I mean REALLY, is it so hard to give a helping hand to the Alienage Elves? If they're such Andrastians then shouldn't they treat all of the Maker's creations equally? Bastards. No wonder the Maker abandoned them.

@thats1evildude, don't you think Fenris looks more human than elf? His eyes aren't as huge and creepy as all the other elves (not that I like his eyes any more than the others)- in fact if they covered his ears with a hood or something he'd look just like a rather skinny human guy. While on the other hand the other less important and non LI elves are running around with sunken cheeks, huge eyes, and protruding cheekbones.

I mean If I had to choose between Merrill (DA2) and Shianni as a LI, I'd pick Shianni because she just looks WAY better. (And I'd defs pick lovely Zev over Fenris)

Ahh well, I may be bias since I love everything DAO-DAA.

totally off topic: You know I absolutely hate Vaughan but I loved the scene where he's in the Alienage and says "Where's the **** that bottled me?" <-- I just love that quote. I don't know why...

I wonder if Vaughan's voice actor hate him...

Why do Elven Women have such small breasts? It's ridiculous.:)

OH and so long as I don't make Shianni Bann, she won't die? Excellent...:wub:

Ohh, In DAO- did you guys have Alienage Beggars ask you for money? I gave the guy some gold, then the next time I went to the Alienage there was another Beggar next to him and I gave them gold again, then the Elf Beggars started increasing and I didn't have the heart to say no...so I kept giving them money...:crying:

Modifié par Joannayaya, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:21 .

#868
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Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 07:10

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Joannayaya wrote...

@Faerunner, I remember Vaughan saying something along the lines of "Such a well formed thing" in CE Origins and I was thinking "If I'm a 'thing' then why the heck do you want to put your 'you know what' in my 'you know where'?! Do you treat your Mabari's like this? Your cats? Sicko'


Behold: the twisted mind of a sociopathic rapist. Doesn't see the victim as a person, but still wants to dominate "it."
 
I stand by my opinion of the new elf designs.


I mean REALLY, is it so hard to give a helping hand to the Alienage Elves? If they're such Andrastians then shouldn't they treat all of the Maker's creations equally? Bastards. No wonder the Maker abandoned them.

The Ethereal Writer Redux and I actually discussed this in the City Elf: Motivation thread. I think it's especially disgusting of the Chantry to preach "All are equal in the Maker's eyes," and yet not only sit by and allow unequal treatment to occur right under their noses, but they themselves don't even treat their subjects equally. How often do the priests do charity in the alienages, where help is needed most? When was the last time you saw an elven priest, chanter or templar?

I thought so.


@thats1evildude, don't you think Fenris looks more human than elf? His eyes aren't as huge and creepy as all the other elves (not that I like his eyes any more than the others)- in fact if they covered his ears with a hood or something he'd look just like a rather skinny human guy. While on the other hand the other less important and non LI elves are running around with sunken cheeks, huge eyes, and protruding cheekbones.

This probably doesn't apply to thats1evildude, but I keep noticing that many people who defend how the the new elf designs look usually pick elves that look more human than the others, or use pictures where they're looking straight ahead instead of in profile (where we can see the portruding foreheads and noses). If the new design is such an improvement because it looks "unhuman," then why are the ones who look more human deemed successful?


totally off topic: You know I absolutely hate Vaughan but I loved the scene where he's in the Alienage and says "Where's the **** that bottled me?" <-- I just love that quote. I don't know why...

I think the voice actor just has a lot of charisma. When I encountered Vaughan as a mage elf, I chose to leave him in the dungeon, and as I walked away he cried, "Come back here, you fat wh*re!" I don't know why, but just the way the line was delivered cracked me up. I kept reloading and replaying that scene over and over because I just found it so enteraining! xD


Why do Elven Women have such small breasts? It's ridiculous.:)

Really? I actually think their breasts are too big and disproportionate for their body size. 

Anyway, since elves are slimmer than humans, it makes sense that their breasts would be smaller too.


Ohh, In DAO- did you guys have Alienage Beggars ask you for money? I gave the guy some gold, then the next time I went to the Alienage there was another Beggar next to him and I gave them gold again, then the Elf Beggars started increasing and I didn't have the heart to say no...so I kept giving them money...:crying:

Well, they are genuinely poor and their lives do suck. It's played for comedy, but the elves did just go through a purge that lasted for several months and killed who knows how many people, and now they're going through a plague that's infected half of their remaining population and growing. If someone's willing to give them free gold, I can see why they'd be willing to ask for it.

I think it's kind of silly how the line is the same even if you're a city elf though. I remember thinking, "Guys. It's me. Cyrion's daughter. I grew up here, remember? I was your neighbor for years. You don't have to pretend for me to give you money."

Even if you aren't a city elf though, I think the scene is too funny not to pay them. These guys are such bad liars! If you call them out on their act, they just stand by their stories with these ****-eating grins. I don't know about you, but I find it so hilarious that I can't help rewarding them just for giving me a good laugh. As far as I'm concerned, they earned their gold. xD

Modifié par Faerunner, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:12 .

#869
Corker
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 08:31

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Joannayaya wrote...

totally off topic: You know I absolutely hate Vaughan but I loved the scene where he's in the Alienage and says "Where's the **** that bottled me?" <-- I just love that quote. I don't know why...


It has a regular cadence (WHERE'S the *ITCH that BOTtled ME?) and alliteration ('*itch' and "bottled"); the combination makes it roll off the tongue and stick in the head. 

Also, the use of "bottled" as a verb in that way - to mean "struck with a bottle" rather than "put into a bottle" - is at once unusual but absolutely clear in intention.  Makes it a very, very memorable turn of phrase.

IMO, YMMV, etc. :wizard:

#870
PizzaThe Hutt
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 08:50

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Fenris' look was made to look more human. Not really sure why they did that while they just SOL'd the other elves and left them alone. I got the elven beggar part as well, I love that part for some reason...

#871
jillabender
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 08:50

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As I've said before, my main problem with the designs for the DA2 elves is that their proportions are so exaggerated that they look like caricatures compared to the more realistically depicted humans, dwarves and kossith – which makes them feel out of place. And because I was already disappointed that the Dalish camp and the Alienage lacked the atmosphere that they had in DA:O, the fact that the designs for the elves similarly lacked realism and subtlety hit a sore spot for me.

To be fair, though, a few of the DA2 elves look okay – I think that people point to Merrill and Fenris because the designers didn't make them look quite so cartoonish and exaggerated, so people see them as an example of how the DA2 designs can look better with a bit of refinement.

I'm not exactly repulsed by the DA2 elf designs – puzzled would be a better word. If anyone's seen the movie Amadeus, my reaction whenever I see pictures of Orana or Tomwise is like the Emperor's when he sees the dancers rehearsing the ballet from Mozart's "Marriage of Figaro" without any music:

Emperor Franz Joseph: What are they doing? *puzzled frown* I don't understand. Is it modern?
(He turns to Salieri.)  Salieri – do you like this?

Salieri: It's not a question of liking, your Majesty – your own law decrees it, I'm afraid.

Emperor Franz Joseph: *confused pause* Well – look at them!

Modifié par jillabender, 18 juillet 2012 - 07:46 .

#872
Fiacre
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 09:50

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I haven't played DA2 yet, but after looking at some screenshots on the wiki, I can see where you're coming from. I mean, I like eyes and I like big eyes, but those elf eyes... They're exaggerated in a fashion that reminds me of manga, but they neither fit the rest of the graphics nor did the designesr manage to make that exaggeration look good. And the ears would look better if they didn't stand away from the head so much. They never looked so weird in DAO.

#873
jillabender
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 10:12

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Fiacre wrote...

I haven't played DA2 yet, but after looking at some screenshots on the wiki, I can see where you're coming from. I mean, I like eyes and I like big eyes, but those elf eyes... They're exaggerated in a fashion that reminds me of manga, but they neither fit the rest of the graphics nor did the designesr manage to make that exaggeration look good. And the ears would look better if they didn't stand away from the head so much. They never looked so weird in DAO.


I completely agree – I like characters with big eyes, but the huge, bulging eyes they put on many of the DA2 elves don't look remotely attractive to me – they just look misproportioned. The ears on many of the DA2 elves also don't seem to fit with the rest of their design – to my eye, anyway. Tomwise's ears look the strangest to me – they're so disproportionately huge that I'd expect him to have trouble lifting his head!

Modifié par jillabender, 14 juillet 2012 - 10:17 .

#874
Fiacre
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 10:31

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Yeah. I've just played some Fable and many characters have big eyes throughout all the games, but the art style there fits the big eyes. If I think that the Fable 3 Hero looks osort of ugly, that's not because his eyes seem misproportioned, because they don't. But DA2's art style doesn't accommodate those eyes at all as far as I can tell. I mean, if you compare those shots of Merrill's face in DAO and the one of DA2 that are on her wiki page, they seem to have grown twice as large without the rest of her face changing in ways to accommodate that.

And Tomwise's ears look creepy. I'm used to seeing elf ears drawn like that, but I saw that picture of him and came to the conclusion that those goat comparisons are rather accurate.

#875
PizzaThe Hutt
Posté 14 juillet 2012 - 10:52

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I think their redesign was only met half-way for DA2, I don't really think DA2's graphics were appropriate for the game comparing the game elves and the concept art for DA2, you'd see what I mean...  While the Concept art looks decent the actual ingame elves look totally different thanks to the graphic style they decided to use, it was the wrong graphics for THIS game as I've said in many other posts in many other topics, I felt more akin to playing The Sims 3 instead of playing a Dragon age game(which I blame EA for completly)
Image IPB
Image IPB

Modifié par PizzaThe Hutt, 14 juillet 2012 - 10:58 .

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