Faerunner wrote...
Dintonta wrote...
I have frequently seen LOTR elves shown with pointy ears, but I can't remember where in J.R.R. Tolkien's books it is made mention of it (maybe in his drawings)?
Apparently Tolkien's elves had "leaf-shaped ears, pointed relative to men," which is what most adaptations go with.
Thank you!
(Now, if the leaf is provided by a weeping-willow...
)
I've always supposed his elves closer to the medieval celtic feys (sort of noble supernatural humans) than to the actual nordic elves (upon whom I know very little, to be honest).
I think it makes sense. Not much is known about the original Nordic elves, because the Norse didn't talk about them much. All we really know is that they were another race that had their own world in the "World Tree" Yggdrasill, much like humans, dwarves, and giants. I think they were more commonly associated with nature and fertility than the other races though.
Yes! Now I remember that Snorri Sturluson's
Edda was one of the many sources of Tolkien's inspiration.
Actually, I think that the ugly dark elves (dokkalfar), who live underground, were the source model for his orcs... (and btw for the darkspawn...*shiver*)
Funny how D&D made both ugly orcs and cute dark elves...
I think since the very basic concept of elves and fairies were similar - a race of beautiful, hidden people who were more in touch with magic and nature than other races - later folklore borrowed aspects of fairy lore to flesh out the elves. I think by the end of the Middle Ages and especially the 1800's, elves and fey were considered very similar to each other (sometimes interchangable), so it makes sense that Tolkien would base his elves very strongly on the fey in his work too.
I was thinking of feys like the Lady of the Lake, from the Arthurian Legend, or some characters of the welsh
Mabinogion. (In the french Jura mountains' folkore, which keeps some ancient celtic elements, there is dangerous "white ladies" or "green ladies" who are not without similitude with Morgan the Fey...)
That's my big question : I am not sure Tolkien gave an absolute racial canon to elves, such as more recent Fantasy worlds seem like they see fit to impose one. All of his elven races are at least described as graceful and share some physical aspects (the leaf-ears you mentionned), but on other regards they seem vary greatly (from the rather simple wood fellows like the common sylvan elves in
The Hobbit, who look actually closer to folkore fairies, to very powerful magical beings like Galadriel or Glorfindel, who look more like the almost deified ancient heroes of both greek and irish myths...)
Actually, what surprise me with the recent Fantasy (especially D&D) is that it seems to use a very modern concept of race (Darwin and stuff...) which could be largely irrelevant speaking of Tolkien's elves or any other mythological creatures.
In a way, I feel like it tone down their poesy...
As you said...
I don't mean to be cynical, but I think part of the reason is that those types of elves are the ideal people. As a fantasy race, they have all the best aspects of humanity with none of the worst. They're immortal and/or they live a very long time, they're always beautiful, always young, never grow old, never get sick, never die, (or at least don't die until much later). They're much more peaceful, intelligent, cunning, wise, etc. than the average human; which is a big plus for human-haters. They are "superior" in every way, which works for people who want to think of them that way.
Tolkien set up his elves as beautiful, immortal people and most other fantasy universes just ran with it.
Absolutely... That's what I remembered Tolkien wrote in
On Fairy-Stories : That his elves were some sort of worldly idealization of humankind.
The trick is that he used writing to describe them, which may be the most appropriate mean to suggest an idealized being... Because I feel sometimes that the other modes of expression only keep the overall shape of his elves instead of the impression they should convey (whatever the size and almond of their eyes, or the lenght of their ears...)
On a very side-note... I think it may be because of that Tolkien reference that some of the discussions about the dalish lore look sometimes heated... I mean, the DA world is a dark world with many conflicts which follow the same absurd and ugly route that they usually take in our real world (more like G.R.R. Martin's Fantasy and less like Tolkien's which is more romantic). In that overall clouded perspective, the very Tolkienesque golden ages of both Arlathan and the Dales, if true, open a refreshing window.
Since Bioware's writers took a great care to show us the DA's world only through the saying of its protagonists, and to keep a veil about the truth of what really happened in the past of their elves, we can not really know which one of those two contradictory source of inspiration will be the lasting one...
Those who wouldn't want to see this window closed plead for dalish lore veracity, while those who'd feel betrayed if such golden ages could truly happen in dark Fantasy worlds, prefer to indulge in suspicion...
(If I were in a DA writter's shoes and if I would like to satisfy everybody, I would
never reveal the truth...)
EDIT : Sorry, I couldn't keep the links you provided in the post I quoted, because I have gone through a notepad to save what I wrote during yesterday's forum interruption. I'm lame at web things...
Modifié par Dintonta, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .
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I'll let him live this time around- just for giggles because I usually kill him. And because I want to here him call me a fat ****. 
