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[Giggles_Manically]

I named my dog Zedog in my last three games.

[Addai]

mousestalker wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

follis2 wrote...

Right before entering the podium, the CE can ask Soris why there are no elven priests. Soris replies that they could ask Mother Boann about this when she arrives. So it seems likely that elves cannot hold any position within the Chantry be it as priests or templars.

Oh, right, you mean in Ferelden not in gameplay.  Yes I'm sure there is a general ban on arming elves in any capacity.  "An elf who uses a sword dies on one."

OTOH, Brother Burkel is an indication there isn't a racial ban on priests, just probably a lack of interested elves or dwarves.

They probably made an exception for Burkel given their interest in expanding, particularly in Orzammar where they might get cheaper lyrium if they were Andrastian, and as the insular nature of the dwarves means that they'd likely be more receptive if it were coming from one of their own.

Burkel isn't a priest. He's a brother. Priests are Father (in Haven and possibly the Tevinter Imperium) or Mother (in Ferelden and Orlais). Using the medieval Catholic church as a guide, Brother Burkel is a missionary who has taken orders of some sort (roughly analogous to a monk or a friar). In the chantry in Lothering you meet some sisters.

Leliana was a lay sister of the Chantry during her stay in Lothering.

I realize he's a brother- hence why he's called Brother Burkel - but it doesn't change the fact that there doesn't seem to be any racial ban on clergy.  Brother Burkel says he chose to come back to his people as a missionary.

[Addai]

mousestalker wrote...

Never. That's one reason my current CEF's mabari is named 'Maker'.

I played an elven mage who was an Andrastian.  The city elves also seem to be fairly pious, in a folk sort of way (i.e. they don't know much about the religion but have a basic Andrastian piety).  You can go in different directions with it.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 août 2010 - 12:40 .

[Hyper Cutter]

Addai67 wrote...Cutest elf in the game?
*picture of Sorisi*

Right family, wrong sibling

[Avilia]

Addai67 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

follis2 wrote...

Right before entering the podium, the CE can ask Soris why there are no elven priests. Soris replies that they could ask Mother Boann about this when she arrives. So it seems likely that elves cannot hold any position within the Chantry be it as priests or templars.

Oh, right, you mean in Ferelden not in gameplay.  Yes I'm sure there is a general ban on arming elves in any capacity.  "An elf who uses a sword dies on one."

OTOH, Brother Burkel is an indication there isn't a racial ban on priests, just probably a lack of interested elves or dwarves.

They probably made an exception for Burkel given their interest in expanding, particularly in Orzammar where they might get cheaper lyrium if they were Andrastian, and as the insular nature of the dwarves means that they'd likely be more receptive if it were coming from one of their own.

Burkel isn't a priest. He's a brother. Priests are Father (in Haven and possibly the Tevinter Imperium) or Mother (in Ferelden and Orlais). Using the medieval Catholic church as a guide, Brother Burkel is a missionary who has taken orders of some sort (roughly analogous to a monk or a friar). In the chantry in Lothering you meet some sisters.

Leliana was a lay sister of the Chantry during her stay in Lothering.

I realize he's a brother- hence why he's called Brother Burkel - but it doesn't change the fact that there doesn't seem to be any racial ban on clergy.  Brother Burkel says he chose to come back to his people as a missionary.

The humans don't appear view dwarves with the same level of comtempt as they do the elves.  Is it possible there's no 'official' ban on race but its 'understood' that only humans are allowed?  Thus Brother Burkel would be an exception to that rule - on expansionary grounds as suggested?

Modifié par Avilia, 03 août 2010 - 03:00 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I think Avilla is right.

No one treats a dwarf rudely in the game, outside of a few npcs.



So its possible that the Chantry dosent care so much about dwarves.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

From what the pair in Denerim said, the Chantry almost doesn't believe dwarves exist. Not as far as the Chant goes anyways.



I believe ther response to asking about if the Chant says anything about dwarves was roughly "Heavens no. Why should it?"

[Addai]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

From what the pair in Denerim said, the Chantry almost doesn't believe dwarves exist. Not as far as the Chant goes anyways.

I believe ther response to asking about if the Chant says anything about dwarves was roughly "Heavens no. Why should it?"

Those dotty old birds aren't exactly a good source.  :happy:  It's true that Orzammar doesn't appear to come to the Chantry's attention until the uprising over Brother Burkel, though.  Andrastians are supposed to preach the Chant of light everywhere, so maybe there's just a general xenophobia that influences things.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 août 2010 - 03:30 .

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

From what the pair in Denerim said, the Chantry almost doesn't believe dwarves exist. Not as far as the Chant goes anyways.

I believe ther response to asking about if the Chant says anything about dwarves was roughly "Heavens no. Why should it?"

Those dotty old birds aren't exactly a good source.  :happy:  It's true that Orzammar doesn't appear to come to the Chantry's attention until the uprising over Brother Burkel, though.  Andrastians are supposed to preach the Chant of light everywhere, so maybe there's just a general xenophobia that influences things.

I know they were just joking but this banter always comes to mind when the subject of how the Chantry sees the dwarves comes up and I think it is possible that the dwarves lack of Fade connection gives the Chantry pause given how important that is to their beliefs.
 

[*]Leliana: It must be a wonderful thing, to be able to weave spells.
[*]Wynne: Wonderful? To you, perhaps. Most do not feel the same way
[*]Leliana: Oh, what do they know? They are just jealous. The Maker gives you magic; you must use it. You do it so effortlessly. It's like breathing for you. I wish I had such talent.
[*]Wynne: Oh, but you do. You have your music, your dancing. You are more graceful than anyone I've ever met. I think that perhaps the Maker gives us all magic... but of different sorts.
[*]Leliana: Even Oghren?
[*]Wynne: Oghren is a dwarf. He doesn't really come from the Maker.
[*]Leliana: Oh, yes. That explains it.

[mousestalker]

Addai67 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Never. That's one reason my current CEF's mabari is named 'Maker'.

I played an elven mage who was an Andrastian.  The city elves also seem to be fairly pious, in a folk sort of way (i.e. they don't know much about the religion but have a basic Andrastian piety).  You can go in different directions with it.

Oh definitely. I have a mage that's pious as well (odd, that, but it does make sense). This current playthrough I'm trying to be as true to my CEF's family, heritage and upbringing as possible. Her best friend and maid of honour is Shianni, so her take on the Chant o' Light is pretty casual. She just wants to have a reason to hide a laugh whenever someone says "Maker's breath!", because that's usually followed by either darkspawn or undead showing up a bit later.

She's also very pragmatic and judges people on what they do and not their role. She respected the templars in Lothering, for example and Mother Boann. 

[SirOccam]

If I am given the option, I will almost always choose an Elf. They're humanoid enough to be familiar, but exotic enough to be interesting. I loved the Tolkien Elves, and when I played EQ/EQ2 I played a High Elf/Half Elf (respectively). When I first started DAO, my first character (a Dalish) was essentially a recreation of my EQ2 character.

Though I have to say, like many here, that the City Elf origin is far and away my favorite. I loved the twist BioWare gave them, and it was very interesting to see the juxtaposition of what is normally a proud and somewhat aloof people with such squalor and oppression. I loved Shianni from the first scene of the game, and I loved how she turned up in the Gauntlet and her activities in the Alienage later on, and the fact that you can make her Bann of the Alienage.

I played Malfaer Tabris as a young, fairly ordinary, albeit somewhat naïve elf...he wasn't thrilled with the idea of the arranged marriage, but he thanked his father for doing what he could to try to give his son a better life. And seeing his bride-to-be helped remove his last niggling doubts.  He was brought up to be very polite and had a very casual belief in the Maker and the Chant (which he would largely lose over the course of the game). He'd grown up with a general distrust of humans (as I imagine life in an Alienage foments), but never really hated them until Vaughan. If not for Duncan, then Alistair, then most of all Morrigan, he might very well have let that hatred consume him. But as it turned out, Alistair became his best friend, and Morrigan his love. She was instrumental in tempering his idealism and naïvete...and he her cynicism and bitterness.

He hadn't so much as hit anyone before the wedding, despite the training he received from his mother, and he was disturbed by the ease with which he was progressively able to make himself do it after that. Wynne was an invaluable source of advice and counsel, and though she could never fill the void left by the passing of his mother, she did better in that regard than anyone else could. It was her guidance that helped him in certain moments of crisis, such as during the duel with Loghain. He simply could not murder a man in front of his daughter, no matter how much Alistair's friendship meant.

He tried to do right by all he encountered, but his past informed many of his decisions, such as backing Bhelen for king because he couldn't abide the whole "casteless" thing. He was devastated by Morrigan's impending departure, and he agreed to her ritual, in part hoping she would change her mind, in part wanting to create something lasting with her, and in part wanting to demonstrate to her the trust he had in her. He never took her ring off after that (including all the way through Awakening), and has vowed to find her one day.

Okay I'm done rambling. The point is I have become SO immersed with that character that it's hard for me to play any other characters differently. It took me two days on a different character to decide to spare Flemeth and lie to Morrigan...and in the end I still couldn't do it. The Alienage and Shianni will always receive special notice, even if I'm not playing an elf.

tl;dr: yay elves!

[Remmirath]

The Chantry thing... I had just assumed that it was that they wouldn't let elves get to that high of a rung in society. There isn't any Chantry in the Alienage, and you wouldn't normally see elves anywhere else in the city (except as servants).

Of my characters, Zemariel is probably actually my most pious one (though that isn't saying terribly much; my human noble is a rather irreverent sort and the rest of my characters are Dalish, dwarves, or mages), and he thinks that seeing the Black City from the Fade is pretty good evidence for at least some of what the Chantry says being true.

Addai67 wrote...
Feanorian fist-bump.    The movie elves are very ethereal and breathy, hence perhaps why you see people in the DA2 forums hoping that DA elves don't end up more Tolkienish- they seem to be picturing pretty fairies.

I like Maedhros and Fingon because of their story.  It's the sort of thing I hope we see in future installments- elves living real drama.  DA2 is not likely to be that game, I guess, because it seems to be centering on human history.

-Fist-bumps-

Yes! I agree. I'd love to see something like that. Hopefully some later game or expansion will focus more on elves and dwarves. Especially elves. There's generally been more for dwarves in what we've gotten already. It's not that I dislike humans, I just find them to be less interesting.

I think people tend to think of the elves as portrayed in the Hobbit instead of the Lord of the Rings, and definitely not as portrayed in the Silmarillion. It certainly gives a very different impression.

[Sarah1281]

and he thinks that seeing the Black City from the Fade is pretty good evidence for at least some of what the Chantry says being true.

I'm not sure the existence of the Black City proves the Chantry right on anything more than the existence of fire meant that Prometheus stole it from the gods and gave it to man like the Greeks believed. The Chantry could have very easily came up with their own explanation of the Maker punishing the Tevinter since they were founded by a people that hated the Tevinter once they wondered what that black city-ish thing no one could get to in the Fade was.

[Remmirath]

Sarah1281 wrote...

and he thinks that seeing the Black City from the Fade is pretty good evidence for at least some of what the Chantry says being true.

I'm not sure the existence of the Black City proves the Chantry right on anything more than the existence of fire meant that Prometheus stole it from the gods and gave it to man like the Greeks believed. The Chantry could have very easily came up with their own explanation of the Maker punishing the Tevinter since they were founded by a people that hated the Tevinter once they wondered what that black city-ish thing no one could get to in the Fade was.

I agree with that. Doesn't mean my character's not mildly gullible (and if you're already inclined to believe something, you're probably more likely to take things you see as proof of that). I probably didn't make the distinction clear enough there, though. 

I think the city could be there because enough people believe it's there so they see it in the Fade when they dream (although that probably doesn't explain mages seeing it, unless it's some kind of mass hallucination), or it could be from something entirely different. It could be a city the Tevinter created in the Fade. It could be something built by the spirits of the Fade. Or it could be what they say it is. There's really not much evidence for any explanation.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Mages are more or less forced Andrastians. Weather they hold that belief is another matter, but with them being raised and watched by the Chantry for a very solid chunk of their lives, if not all of it.



I, personally, go with the idea that since so many are expecting it to exist, and the Fade is a realm of dreams, the collective slumber belief and the more potent belief of the mages over the centuries has made the city no one can get to but everyone can see no matter what.

[Merllle]

Maric would approve of this thread.

[Sarah1281]

Merllle wrote...

Maric would approve of this thread.

And then he would sleep with it.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Merllle wrote...

Maric would approve of this thread.

And then he would sleep with it.

But he wouldn't admit it later.

[Sarah1281]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Merllle wrote...

Maric would approve of this thread.

And then he would sleep with it.

But he wouldn't admit it later.

Better than killing it.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

And several years from now, the thread can assume the throne.

[Avilia]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

And several years from now, the thread can assume the throne.

 As long as no one finds out its mother was an elf thread ;-)

[Addai]

Shapeshifter bug hits again??

[Addai]

Zyanic wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Shapeshifter bug hits again??

nah was that wings of velvet (?) mod.  i ended up with two robes and one of them did this. I, of course, found it hilarious as I do with all modding misadventures, I'd have kept her as a disembodied floating head if it hadn't confused me so much.

Oh, right, that's the man version.  Which I always end up selling, because I can't make Anders wear it.