394 réponses à ce sujet

[Anarya]

captain.subtle wrote...

Slightly off topic:

Have you read "Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy"?

Yes I have mad nerd cred.

[captain.subtle]

Thedas = Earth



Mice = Maker

[Herr Uhl]

Anarya wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Anyway it seems like their efficiency would be a handicap to innovation since a lot of advances come from having to solve problems. Kind of like how evolution could not happen without genetic anomalies.

I don't think that their scientists cover the areas of confections, and that hasn't brought that much innovation to the human race either.

Well, if they plan ahead that well in their cooking I'm sure their efficiency extends to all other aspects of Qunari life. The cookie thing is just an illustration of the state of their society on the whole. I'm a big believer in the value of chance and imperfection as a driving force of innovation. Apparently "the Maker" is too or he wouldn't have made mortals to entertain him, lol.

They improve their methods to be more efficient through mistakes. Being efficient does not mean that they aren't trying to improve. How many groundbreaking discoveries have been due to inefficiency except for Penicillin though?

Or maybe all that about the scientific method that our present society is built around was BS? It's mostly due to mistakes, yes indeed.

[captain.subtle]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Anyway it seems like their efficiency would be a handicap to innovation since a lot of advances come from having to solve problems. Kind of like how evolution could not happen without genetic anomalies.

I don't think that their scientists cover the areas of confections, and that hasn't brought that much innovation to the human race either.

Well, if they plan ahead that well in their cooking I'm sure their efficiency extends to all other aspects of Qunari life. The cookie thing is just an illustration of the state of their society on the whole. I'm a big believer in the value of chance and imperfection as a driving force of innovation. Apparently "the Maker" is too or he wouldn't have made mortals to entertain him, lol.

They improve their methods to be more efficient through mistakes. Being efficient does not mean that they aren't trying to improve. How many groundbreaking discoveries have been due to inefficiency except for Penicillin though?

Or maybe all that about the scientific method that our present society is built around was BS? It's mostly due to mistakes, yes indeed.

As a matter of fact scientific method IS COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF SERENDIPITY.
EDIT: To make it clearer: NOT to so vice-a-versa.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 03 août 2010 - 10:22 .

[Herr Uhl]

What? Serendipity is a big part of the scientific method.



They do *not* consider their present state of life as perfection and strive for improvement. Being efficient doesn't make that any less true. In fact it shows that they try to improve even more than a society that is inefficient to me.

[Anarya]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Anyway it seems like their efficiency would be a handicap to innovation since a lot of advances come from having to solve problems. Kind of like how evolution could not happen without genetic anomalies.

I don't think that their scientists cover the areas of confections, and that hasn't brought that much innovation to the human race either.

Well, if they plan ahead that well in their cooking I'm sure their efficiency extends to all other aspects of Qunari life. The cookie thing is just an illustration of the state of their society on the whole. I'm a big believer in the value of chance and imperfection as a driving force of innovation. Apparently "the Maker" is too or he wouldn't have made mortals to entertain him, lol.

They improve their methods to be more efficient through mistakes. Being efficient does not mean that they aren't trying to improve. How many groundbreaking discoveries have been due to inefficiency except for Penicillin though?

Or maybe all that about the scientific method that our present society is built around was BS? It's mostly due to mistakes, yes indeed.

Yeah I think you're reading things into my words that I never actually said. And as to how many discoveries have been due to chance? More than you'd think, I'm sure.

The rigidity of Qunari society extends to the mindset of its people. Just look how difficult it was for Sten to wrap his mind around new concepts (women warriors for instance). Qunari are ruthlessly efficient. Humans are flawed and adaptive. It just seems to me that the Qunari mindset would not lead to as much innovation. Not that they are incapable of it, just that "outside the box" thinking seems to run counter to their nature. But I could be misreading the Qunari. I mean I know Sten is a soldier and not a thinker but he's all we really have to go on at this point.

[Malanek]

Anarya wrote...
The rigidity of Qunari society extends to the mindset of its people. Just look how difficult it was for Sten to wrap his mind around new concepts (women warriors for instance).

The same could be said about many forum posters

But seriously, in real life how long did it take for women to get to vote? Let alone join the millitary. I don't think humans in real history are quite as adaptive or free thinking as you believe. It is true though that the people of Thedas are more free thinking than our historical counterparts, after all it is a game where some of our modern day values are carried in.

[attend]

I would imagine a culture that rigid and unaccepting of independent thought would seriously lack artisans. In their bid for efficiency they would lose creativity. Chanting that teaches instead of songs that uplift. Buildings that are utilitarian instead of inspired. Hopefully you get the point.



Is there such a role in their society or is their thinking so far from human?



Someone once said Sten appreciated paintings for their skill (ie brush strokes) instead of their beauty. Even Alistair comments that the regret Sten feels over the murder of the family is most likely not for the same reason he or the warden would. I guess what I am looking for is this a society brainwashed into accepting a certain way of life or are they so far removed (being a different species) that human thinking is alien?



I would think that their culture would become static unless the reason they conquer other lands is to benefit from their advances.

[attend]

Oh and thank you Mr Gaider for your response.

[Anarya]

Malanek999 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
The rigidity of Qunari society extends to the mindset of its people. Just look how difficult it was for Sten to wrap his mind around new concepts (women warriors for instance).

The same could be said about many forum posters

But seriously, in real life how long did it take for women to get to vote? Let alone join the millitary. I don't think humans in real history are quite as adaptive or free thinking as you believe. It is true though that the people of Thedas are more free thinking than our historical counterparts, after all it is a game where some of our modern day values are carried in.

Well again, I never said humans are paragons of free thought and equality but compared to the Qunari? Yes, they are much more free thinking. Qunari probably have them/us beat on the equality front. As for adaptivity, humans are very, very adaptive. It's kinda our thing. Compared to all three of the other fantasy races in DA humans are the most adaptive, and even in real life when compared to other species we are highly adaptive creatures. Just look how we've overrun the planet. You can find us in almost any environment.

Adaptivity is not the same as social equality, and saying humans are adaptive is also not the same as saying every member of the species is good at openmindedness and creative thought processes. You don't have to tell me about women's rights, I mean I am a female after all. Still I hope I clarified my standpoint. 

edit: this is by far the most interesting thread I've seen on the forums. <3

Modifié par Anarya, 03 août 2010 - 11:26 .

[Legbiter]

tmp7704 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

So in theory, you could royally mess up Qunari society if you destroyed a big cache of pedigree rolls?

Since their "private names" hold the information about parentage and such, and none of them would suddenly forget both that and what their assigned job was... no, not really.

I disagree. All those carefully noted down generations of selective breeding and backcrossing to fix desirable traits lost...it would be chaos. 

[Anarya]

Legbiter wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

So in theory, you could royally mess up Qunari society if you destroyed a big cache of pedigree rolls?

Since their "private names" hold the information about parentage and such, and none of them would suddenly forget both that and what their assigned job was... no, not really.

I disagree. All those carefully noted down generations of selective breeding and backcrossing to fix desirable traits lost...it would be chaos. 

I think what he was saying was the lineage information is probably not stored in scrolls but in the names themselves. So there would be no "database" to destroy unless you wiped out the entire Qunari people.

Modifié par Anarya, 03 août 2010 - 11:28 .

[tmp7704]

Anarya wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

I disagree. All those carefully noted down generations of selective breeding and backcrossing to fix desirable traits lost...it would be chaos. 

I think what he was saying was the lineage information is probably not stored in scrolls but in the names themselves. So there would be no "database" to destroy unless you wiped out the entire Qunari people.

Yes, pretty much that. Also, i think the whole notion of "generations of crossing etc" is putting too much weight on it -- at the end of the day it's still medieval society. For comparison, the basics of genetics weren't really researched in our world until Mendel's work in late 19th century. The qunari are more likely to be just pairing strong soldiers to get more of strong soldiers and such, and for that they only need to know who already has what task, and maybe who their parents were to avoid the most obvious risks of pairing very close relatives.

They also appear far too level-headed to "fall into chaos" over it. Since it wouldn't prevent them from doing what they've been doing up to that point, i think they'd just shrug and carry on, recognizing it's not end of the world by any stretch.

[Saibh]

Huh. I wonder if they have music or art or anything we like to call "cultured" if they can't be bothered to have enough leftover batter for cookies.



I can't imagine what they might consider art.

[Herr Uhl]

filaminstrel wrote...

So the first blight began in 395 ancient and lasted for a century, according to the timeline. The qunari showed up in the jungle islands of the Boeric Ocean around 6:30 Steel. If the calendar goes from 1 ancient to 1:01-1:99 Divine to 2:01-2:99 Glory to etc, that should be about a 920 year gap.

This is interesting because in the opening cinematic of DAO, Duncan says, "The dwarven kingdoms were the first to fall, and from the deep roads the darkspawn drove at us again and again until finally we neared annihilation..." Then it shows an ogre smashing his way through a barrier set up by the dwarves. "Until the Grey Wardens came." So there were ogres during the first blight.

All of the blights occurred somewhere on the continent of Thedas, as far as I'm aware, but if there were ogres during the first blight, before the qunari arrived on the continent of Thedas, does that mean there are darkspawn in the land they originally came from? Is that why they left it? It would have interesting implications regarding the origins and leadership of the darkspawn, if they afflicted a people who had nothing to do with the Magisters and if they could organize into a threat without an archdemon. Or maybe they did have archdemons on that continent? Maybe all of this "seven old gods" nonsense is just.. well, nonsense. Or incomplete.

Or perhaps ogres were simply present during the first blight because there happened to be small populations of qunari in Thedas already, not enough to constitute an arrival of a nation so much as an emigration from one.

Or perhaps there weren't ogres during the first blight at all, and the cinematic wasn't so much a portrayal of what happened as it was a portrayal of Duncan's story of what happened.

I'll use Gaider's answer to a similar question.

David Gaider wrote...

tez19 wrote...
mr. gaider if you please could clear up the following quote as i think it is an interesting point somebody made.
thanks in advance.

It's an interesting question. Where could they have gotten the qunari from, if there were no qunari in Thedas at the time?

Hmmm...

[Kimarous]

So, about Qunari mages... the saarebas are leashed up, get their tongues get out if they practice forbidden magic, and are considered defective (but unwasted) tools. Two questions:

1) Is the Qunari definition of "forbidden" magic pretty much the same as for the rest of Thedas?
2) While considered "defective tools", what actual role do they play in Qunari society?

[Stoomkal]

Hmmm...



How can I trust any of this? Is this really what is going to *be*...



I used to think that if the writers claimed something, then that was important. Due to the conflicts with David Gaider's books and Awakenings, this idea has kinda died...



Can you really trust what Mary says *now*? Who knows what will happen?



Most likely, they will go to a "Focus Group" and the whole thing will be thrown out for DA3 due to a need to breath some new, errr, "life" into a concept.



Need to change the art? Give Qunari horns...



I am not sure this game has much fidelity anymore.



I personally expect the Darkspawn to reappear in DA3 as clockwork engineers, and it will be all about Spelljammers!



If that is what the marketing dept says, well, who cares about fidelity?

[captain.subtle]

Malanek999 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
The rigidity of Qunari society extends to the mindset of its people. Just look how difficult it was for Sten to wrap his mind around new concepts (women warriors for instance).

The same could be said about many forum posters

But seriously, in real life how long did it take for women to get to vote? Let alone join the millitary. I don't think humans in real history are quite as adaptive or free thinking as you believe. It is true though that the people of Thedas are more free thinking than our historical counterparts, after all it is a game where some of our modern day values are carried in.

Known Human history is only 5000 years long....

It took a 150 years for women to vote after suffrage became a right in most of the western world.

In most of arabia they still can't.

[Saibh]

Anarya wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
The rigidity of Qunari society extends to the mindset of its people. Just look how difficult it was for Sten to wrap his mind around new concepts (women warriors for instance).

The same could be said about many forum posters

But seriously, in real life how long did it take for women to get to vote? Let alone join the millitary. I don't think humans in real history are quite as adaptive or free thinking as you believe. It is true though that the people of Thedas are more free thinking than our historical counterparts, after all it is a game where some of our modern day values are carried in.

Well again, I never said humans are paragons of free thought and equality but compared to the Qunari? Yes, they are much more free thinking. Qunari probably have them/us beat on the equality front. As for adaptivity, humans are very, very adaptive. It's kinda our thing. Compared to all three of the other fantasy races in DA humans are the most adaptive, and even in real life when compared to other species we are highly adaptive creatures. Just look how we've overrun the planet. You can find us in almost any environment.

Adaptivity is not the same as social equality, and saying humans are adaptive is also not the same as saying every member of the species is good at openmindedness and creative thought processes. You don't have to tell me about women's rights, I mean I am a female after all. Still I hope I clarified my standpoint. 

edit: this is by far the most interesting thread I've seen on the forums. <3

I feel like adding that clearly Thedas does not reflect medieval Europe--again, women can become warriors or strong leaders. It probably helps that the prophet of the Chantry is female, the religious leaders are all female. I always wonder if Tevinter is more strict with women, since they are male-dominated (going so far as to always select a male Black Divine/First Enchanter, despite the common sense being that the prerequisite should be "mage", not "male mage").

Modifié par Saibh, 04 août 2010 - 05:44 .

[captain.subtle]

Saibh wrote...

I feel like adding that clearly Thedas does not reflect medieval Europe--again, women can become warriors or strong leaders. It probably helps that the prophet of the Chantry is female, the religious leaders are all female. I always wonder if Tevinter is more strict with women, since they are male-dominated (going so far as to always select a male Black Divine/First Enchanter, despite the prerequisite should be "mage", not "male mage").

You are almost right, (IMO), except for the Female priests....

There were Matriarchial societies in ancient history.. But as you point out correctly, None in MEdieval times...

[elfdwarf]

what jobs do they give the mages?

[captain.subtle]

elfdwarf wrote...

what jobs do they give the mages?

Cleaning the Toilets.