394 réponses à ce sujet

[Archontor]

i wonder if qunari have spies after all being a spy requires creativity, acting skill physical prowess and survival training .....or so im told

[Herr Uhl]

Archontor wrote...

i wonder if qunari have spies after all being a spy requires creativity, acting skill physical prowess and survival training .....or so im told

How would a Qunari go about blending into human society? Acting skill is probably not needed. Physical prowess, creativity and survival training are probably there though.

They are probably more of scouts than spies really.

Edit: Human and Elven converts might though, but spying doesn't seem very Qunari-ish.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 05 août 2010 - 11:40 .

[Archontor]

i did mean humans and elves (and maybe dwarves who knows) and acting skill was to help take on a role and pretend not to be an operative for a dangerous military force also it seems relitively qunari that they would study their targets to get the best grip of their weaknesses.

[Herr Uhl]

Considering that Sten is one of their diplomats, tact is not the Qunair's forte. Scouting is something that they'd do though.

[KSuri]

Kileyan wrote...

Aedan lives wrote...

seems like the guys at Bioware have been reading up on Plato or atleast came up with very similar ideas to his. Well done guys.

No it isn't well done yet. It is easy to create this dream society without other influence. LIttle things add up and turn into mountains. The Qunari spend long times away from home. I assume every scouting force doesn't have a cook and blacksmith. Before you know it, the Warrior caste is learning the sharpen and repair their weapons and armor. They ran out of rations, and are learning to hunt and cook their food. For even so stoic a bunch of limited thinking peoples, they after years away from home learn to make their food tasty, and learn to fix their equipment. Jobs done by others back home.

Then they are introduced to capable warriors from these new lands. A warrior they respect who was a farmer before, a cook, a musician, or political leader. They start thinking, this very capable warrior is able to best me, equal me, or even lead me. How is that possible, my leaders say the only way to excel is to single mindedly do one thing and not question.

It won't be well done until they explore what happens when the Qun meet a race of people that through passion and pure willpower can beat their breeding program. They meet a warrior in combat, that wasn't bred to fight, he was a farmer. Their world will crash down, doubt will be seeded when they are beaten on the battlefield by people who fight because they have to, not because they are bred to fight.

Who's to say that scouts don't bring a blacksmith with them? Sten doesn't specifically mention that it was just his fellow scouts.  Also, when in the Fade with Sten, his 'brothers' talk about who's turn it is to cook and the unsavory results of such. It would make sense that all scouting parties or small battalions would know how to survive off the land and prepare rudimentary food. Preparing food for a large number of people in a communal setting requires a different skillset than just cooking something for 4-8 people.

The bolded portion might just be why there are Tal'Valosth in the first place. Qunair sent into foriegn lands who did start to question their culture and the Qun.

[tmp7704]

Kileyan wrote...

Then they are introduced to capable warriors from these new lands. A warrior they respect who was a farmer before, a cook, a musician, or political leader. They start thinking, this very capable warrior is able to best me, equal me, or even lead me. How is that possible, my leaders say the only way to excel is to single mindedly do one thing and not question.

It won't be well done until they explore what happens when the Qun meet a race of people that through passion and pure willpower can beat their breeding program. They meet a warrior in combat, that wasn't bred to fight, he was a farmer. Their world will crash down, doubt will be seeded when they are beaten on the battlefield by people who fight because they have to, not because they are bred to fight.

You're extrapolating "a single exceptional individual strong enough to overcome their background and best an average specialist" into ability to do that race-wide. Which is, let's be honest based very much on wishful thinking because exactly why should "farmers turned warriors" be able to beat "warriors for life" on such scale?

And if it's not done race-wide but just on scale of a few people, then it's hardly earth shattering event that would cause "world crash down". Anyone with working brain can accept existence of exceptional individuals like that who are capable of defying the norm. It doesn't however change the norm.

[Archontor]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Considering that Sten is one of their diplomats, tact is not the Qunair's forte. Scouting is something that they'd do though.

perhaps he was lying after all a warden's word carries weight so telliing or even emplying to them that they have spys in fereldan would risk compromising them

[Dick Delaware]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Considering that Sten is one of their diplomats, tact is not the Qunair's forte. Scouting is something that they'd do though.

Sten was a diplomat? I always thought he was a commander, a pretty high ranking qunari soldier of the Beresaad.

And yeah, it's wishful thinking to assume that qunari culture would crumble just from contact with the outside world. Yes, they're an insular people, but they're not nearly as insular as say, Spartan culture, or modern-day North Korea, to cite a few examples.

[Anarya]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Considering that Sten is one of their diplomats, tact is not the Qunair's forte. Scouting is something that they'd do though.

Sten was a diplomat? I always thought he was a commander, a pretty high ranking qunari soldier of the Beresaad.

And yeah, it's wishful thinking to assume that qunari culture would crumble just from contact with the outside world. Yes, they're an insular people, but they're not nearly as insular as say, Spartan culture, or modern-day North Korea, to cite a few examples.

I wouldn't call him a diplomat. A soldier on a recon mission, but to complete his objective he does need to interact with the other races and he does serve as a representative of his race to those people.

[Dave of Canada]

If a Qunari removes his horns but hasn't left the Qun, how would he be regarded amongst his people? Would he be cast out, tolerated or it doesn't bother them at all?

Does the breeding decisions done by their leaders also impact the races and people who serve them? Say, an elf baker who was conquered but is married to a human spy. Would the Qunari 'disband' this marriage and make the elf baker breed with another baker in order to pass on the genes or does this only impact the Qunari race themselves?

Following my above point, do the Qunari make humans / elves / dwarves crossbreed to pass down genes or do they believe only in elf-elf / dwarf-dwarf and human-human pairings?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 05 août 2010 - 08:17 .

[mildmort]

Blumbum wrote...

Also the Qunari in the concept art have the same armor/armor stitching as the Darkspawn. As someone who is paying attention more than he probably should be, I find this disturbing.

If it is about the picture a qunari looking at a stone, it couldn't be anything else but a stone.
But I'm sorry if there is a possibility for what I have never imagened.
 
Or if it is about meaning of "war", in enemy looking portrait...looks grey, at least...I'm not sure.

Modifié par mildmort, 06 août 2010 - 06:45 .

[esoterican]

Mary, many thanks for visiting this thread (and others) and answering our questions. It makes my day to read your posts, and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Do you think we will ever encounter Sten again, perhaps in DA2?

[kaispan]

humans in Ferelden cremate their remains, elves bury their dead and plant saplings over their graves... what do qunari do? we know the "tamrassans note their passing" (presumably recorded in their book of geneology) and that they honor their dead heroes in huge celebrations.... but what about the rest of the population? is it simply left to the individual culture that that member is from? (ie elf or human) If so--what about specifically the qunari qunari (if I can refer to them as a race)?

apologies if this has been answered elsewhere--if so, please copy the answer in all caps with the appropriate expressive emoticons. ^^

also I would be curious of their general attitude towards death-- with their lack of belief in an afterlife and their lack of focus (in most cases) on the individual-- it doesn't seem like there would be much wailing and teeth-gnashing, in any case...

Modifié par kaispan, 08 août 2010 - 01:24 .

[Archontor]

kaispan wrote...

humans in Ferelden cremate their remains, elves bury their dead and plant saplings over their graves... what do qunari do? we know the "tamrassans note their passing" (presumably recorded in their book of geneology) and that they honor their dead heroes in huge celebrations.... but what about the rest of the population? is it simply left to the individual culture that that member is from? (ie elf or human) If so--what about specifically the qunari qunari (if I can refer to them as a race)?

apologies if this has been answered elsewhere--if so, please copy the answer in all caps with the appropriate expressive emoticons. ^^

also I would be curious of their general attitude towards death-- with their lack of belief in an afterlife and their lack of focus (in most cases) on the individual-- it doesn't seem like there would be much wailing and teeth-gnashing, in any case...

id imagine they store the custom tools or weapons of heroes in large reppositorys whilst cremating the bodies or maybe they're given sea burials given that they live on islands

[captain.subtle]

Archontor wrote...
maybe they're given sea burials given that they live on islands

Only to have the bodies float back and pile up on the shores?


EDIT: Considering how efficient and practical Qunari are they perhaps:

1) Use the dead for Manure
2) use them For Medical experimentation
3) Cannibalize them
4) make Not Pet/Useful animal food out of them
5) hang them up for Target practice a la Wanted

Modifié par captain.subtle, 08 août 2010 - 10:13 .

[Merlin326]

captain.subtle wrote...
EDIT: Considering how efficient and practical Qunari are they perhaps:

1) Use the dead for Manure
2) use them For Medical experimentation
3) Cannibalize them
4) make Not Pet/Useful animal food out of them
5) hang them up for Target practice a la Wanted

I find all these options both disturbing to the extreme and equally possible with what we know about qunari efficiency.

EDIT: Irony would dictate that means of 'burial' would depend on job.

1. deceased was a farmer.
2.  deceased was a doctor/medical scientist
3. deceased was a cook.
4. deceased was a stable hand
5.  deceased was an archer.

Modifié par Merlin326, 08 août 2010 - 11:18 .

[Archontor]

captain.subtle wrote...

Archontor wrote...
maybe they're given sea burials given that they live on islands

Only to have the bodies float back and pile up on the shores?

well sailors are burried at sea on occasion and i assume they dont wash up besides the could custom build the coffins to be  too heavy to float

Modifié par Archontor, 09 août 2010 - 01:11 .

[Archontor]

kaispan wrote...

humans in Ferelden cremate their remains, elves bury their dead and plant saplings over their graves... what do qunari do? we know the "tamrassans note their passing" (presumably recorded in their book of geneology) and that they honor their dead heroes in huge celebrations.... but what about the rest of the population? is it simply left to the individual culture that that member is from? (ie elf or human) If so--what about specifically the qunari qunari (if I can refer to them as a race)?

apologies if this has been answered elsewhere--if so, please copy the answer in all caps with the appropriate expressive emoticons. ^^

also I would be curious of their general attitude towards death-- with their lack of belief in an afterlife and their lack of focus (in most cases) on the individual-- it doesn't seem like there would be much wailing and teeth-gnashing, in any case...

It states that they devote their LIFE to the qun so maybe they pick what they do with their corpses on their death bead if given the chance

[Wolf8472]

I like the Qunari's government system. I think it would work. You've got the designated warriors, workers, and "priests" (although I've been led to believe that they believe in no god), with everyone doing their part in the ideal community. Of course there's the Tal'Vashoth, but every society has its malcontents. I would have no problem at all if the entire world was ruled by the Qun, even though I'd be stuck under the influence of the Arigena. I would hope to be under the Arishok, but I doubt that would happen.

[Wolf8472]

Archontor wrote...

kaispan wrote...

humans in Ferelden cremate their remains, elves bury their dead and plant saplings over their graves... what do qunari do? we know the "tamrassans note their passing" (presumably recorded in their book of geneology) and that they honor their dead heroes in huge celebrations.... but what about the rest of the population? is it simply left to the individual culture that that member is from? (ie elf or human) If so--what about specifically the qunari qunari (if I can refer to them as a race)?

apologies if this has been answered elsewhere--if so, please copy the answer in all caps with the appropriate expressive emoticons. ^^

also I would be curious of their general attitude towards death-- with their lack of belief in an afterlife and their lack of focus (in most cases) on the individual-- it doesn't seem like there would be much wailing and teeth-gnashing, in any case...

It states that they devote their LIFE to the qun so maybe they pick what they do with their corpses on their death bead if given the chance

I was under the impression that the body is no longer them, and is therefore no longer deserving of any special treatment. I don't think that will help, but maybe.

[dIRECT0R]

OMG they ruined the Qunari.. Of all the moronic dumbing-down changes this was the worst. I mean they almost completely ruined the glorious feel the game had, its just barely holding on.

As for the Qunari its obvious someone imagined them, an original, interesting race I really looked forward to learning about (I mean Sten was probably right up there alongside Morrigan as one of the most interesting Origins characters), and then some IDIOT decided his "vision" is more accurate. Someone who really, really likes horns for some weird Freudian reason. Probably the same guy who turned Flemmeth into a hair-horned fashion queen that for some reason wears armour only on her hands and legs - something so incredibly stupid I've never even seen it in any RPG, anywhere. We're talking about a guy (or a group) with a very low capacity for subtlety or elegance of expression.

Its completely plain and obvious that they were "re-imagined" (to use a euphemism), and that all this was a stupid idea someone had only recently. For example, in Origins they were described as wearing "glittering steel armour", a sophisticated yet powerful people. Now we have this bunch of WoW-like Illidan-horned, shirtless quasi-demonic freaks that do not come close to displaying the quiet restraint, the intelligence and culture of Sten and his companions (his companions can be seen in the fade during the mage tower quest - wearing "glittering steel armor", just like all Qunari in DA1). It was precisely their near-human form that made them elegantly original, similar yet markedly different. But nooo, lets give them GIGANTIC horns spanning their entire heads.. I mean its not so much their Qunari behavior in DA2, which is tolerable, as the stupid re-imagining of their phyisical appearance and clothing - the MASSIVE physically implausible horns really take the cake.

BioWare gave this project into the hands of some people who have NO idea what a fantasy RPG is about. I don't know what happened in BioWare, but there was clearly one intelligence behind their original conception, and another.. "intelligence" behind the butchering of the concept. I mean such cheapness is everywhere today, but to see it so cruelly implemented on one of the best RPGs in modern gaming history is... physically painful. Hope they come to their senses in DA3, or else Bethesda will simply blow them away. Skyrim is liable to be better even than DA1, let alone the dumbed-down version. The number of top-notch RPG series just went down from 2 to 1. I mean, the game is "good" I guess, its just not up there anymore.

Modifié par dIRECT0R, 22 mars 2011 - 11:20 .

[Daxne Kettel_]

Mary Kirby wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

I come from... Dresden, which was in East Germany .... so I kind of understand... But that does not feel right to me.... (It actually sends shivers up my spine...)

EDIT: Can I know your personal opinion on the matter, meaning you feel if its right or wrong, irrespective of the Qunari?

Personally, I view the Qunari as a negative utopia. Totalitarianism is too high a price to pay for anything. Even an end to poverty and economic class discrimination.

Really? I prefer to think like a Grey Warden. Sacrifices are an unfortunate necessary at times, but if the results are great, then it is worth it. The Qunari society seems to be much better than any other society I've seen in the game. They don't treat their converts like second-class vermin (Chantry and the elves *cough cough*). They may be cold and fanatical, but I've read about their ways of life, and it's a great deal better than the Chantry's or Tevinter's or the Dalish's. If, in the next game, we can pick which race to side with to reshape Thedas, I'm going with the Qunari.

[nynuwe]

Daxne Kettel wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

I come from... Dresden, which was in East Germany .... so I kind of understand... But that does not feel right to me.... (It actually sends shivers up my spine...)

EDIT: Can I know your personal opinion on the matter, meaning you feel if its right or wrong, irrespective of the Qunari?

Personally, I view the Qunari as a negative utopia. Totalitarianism is too high a price to pay for anything. Even an end to poverty and economic class discrimination.

Really? I prefer to think like a Grey Warden. Sacrifices are an unfortunate necessary at times, but if the results are great, then it is worth it. The Qunari society seems to be much better than any other society I've seen in the game. They don't treat their converts like second-class vermin (Chantry and the elves *cough cough*). They may be cold and fanatical, but I've read about their ways of life, and it's a great deal better than the Chantry's or Tevinter's or the Dalish's. If, in the next game, we can pick which race to side with to reshape Thedas, I'm going with the Qunari.

 
Grey Wardens believe in saifice to FREE people from Darkpawn, to keep the alive. Because when you face the option: you die vs. eyeryone else dies, you know which one they will pick. Grey Wardens are about saving people's lives, but as they even accept blood mages into their order, you can tell they don't try to tell you HOW to live your life. Your comparison of Grey Wardens to Qunari is very poor. You are comparing an independent military structure specialized in killing monsters with a totalitarist, fanatically religious, expansionist government.

Qunari don't treat converts as vermin because when you convert, you become a person. Before that, you are THING. Lovely. This speaks of their humility so highly. Where the Chantry is racist, the Qunari are extremely religiously discriminating more so than the Chantry (Chantry calls non-converts 'heretics', Qunari calls them 'things'. At least being called a heretic doesn't deny you are person, just calls you a bad one}. And how is that you view racism to be better than religious persecution? Last time I checked, religious persecution led to as many or more more wars, conflicts, and tragedies throughout history than racism alone, and frequently both were interconnected (much like the Jewsih holocaust was both religious and racist persecution}.

Exalted Marches occurred when the Chantry felt threatened, Qunari planned on attacking all of Thedas to forcefully convert them. One is reactive, and one is deliberate invasion. Yes, both are bad, but you are practically idealizing the Qunari. Mary Kirby herself wrote the Qunari, don't you think her opinion of her own creation could be an indication that they are not a pretty as you think they are? Mary admits to them being totalitarian, which anyone who knows what a totalitarian government is could have already assumed they were. This doesn't ring warning bells in your head?

And thirdly, Qunari are OCD and extremely efficient to the point that they shallowly brainwash you into thinking that your core identity is a mere professional role. Yes, shallow, because WHO you are in the core of your true being is not dependant of the roles you play. Roles are like masks, skins, clothes, tools. You put them on, you use them, and go to work.  That's it. The personification of a professional role should not substitute your own core identity or even try to be more valuable than it, just as it would be considered an abuse and an act against  basic human rights to deny a person his or her right to have hi/her own name. In other words, "Bob"  is still Bob regardless if he is a doctor, a policeman, a politician, a merchant, an engineer, a farmer, ect. What is better? To identify yourself with a job role, something that can be taken away from you- or with something that stays with you until the day you die, regardless of everything else? People who foolishly confuse their own core identities with the roles they play face pychological trauma if anything were to happen to them that would prohibit them to assume the role ever again. The Qunari try to assure the health of the whole by diminishing the individuality, and sense of self of its followers. And what is the point of living in a highly structured society if the individuals must sacrifice their basic human rights? Are you certain you would take away people's freedom to choose and follow their own religion, their jobs/roles regardless of gender, have romantic relations (Unless you are asexual, I bet you wouldn't like being prohibited from having romantic relations for the rest of your life} just for governmental efficiency?

Forgive me for sounding harsh in this post. I'm just very VERY pro human rights. I really like having them. I would sooner become a radical freedom fighter, or commit suicide than to subject myelf to the rule of a totalitarian government.