394 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Corker wrote...

I've always wondered why a culture that otherwise seems very ability-focused has such rigid gender roles. If a child displays strong talent and competence in an opposite-sex ability (art, management, breaking skulls), why is that not accommodated? Is it just a peculiar blind spot in their philosophy?

We have yet to see how the female Qunari look. It stands to reason from a breeders point of view that the biggest and strongest should be fighters. You don't use a terrier to guard your property instead of a rottweiler just because it has the disposition to guard it.

[iTomes]

Corker wrote...

iTomes wrote...

hmmm, how would you know that someone is good at something from the oposite gender?

From their play?

I don't know if the qunari have basic literacy, but it seems to suit them.  That implies a bunch of kids with writing implements and writing surfaces.  Sure, you could beat the tendency to scribble and draw out of a kid, if that was 'wrong' for his (? I forget who the artisans were) gender, but if that's what he's good at, why?

There's definitely a component of talent realized through opportunity; the Western history of (say) art is predominated by men not because women are bad artists, but because they weren't generally given the opportunity to be artists.  But like I said, I find it strange that a culture which seems so focused on fitting people into society based on ability would slot a twin brother and sister - same parentage, same genetics, same breeding - into different places based on sex instead of actual aptitude.  Not impossible, just odd.

the qun doesn't have to do much with human standards. there are no real familys, only the persons youre working with. thats why sten calls his cofighters brothers, for example. you rather have to imagine the qunari as insects. everybody does his work and nothing else. if someone would actually be better at something else doesn't matter. you could compare it to the hinduistic (or wherever it is provided, i don't want to insult someone and dont want to start a discussion about the hinduism or other things) castsystem: if someone is "untouchable" he has to collect others crap or something, if he actually can paint great pictures or something doesn't really matter.

[Herr Uhl]

Corker wrote...

But like I said, I find it strange that a culture which seems so focused on fitting people into society based on ability would slot a twin brother and sister - same parentage, same genetics, same breeding - into different places based on sex instead of actual aptitude.  Not impossible, just odd.

How do you know that the reason that it is so is gender? It might be so since the men might be bigger and stronger. That Sten then has it hard-printed into his mind that there are no female fighters would be his personal interpretation, not how the Talmassran thinks.

[tmp7704]

Herr Uhl wrote...

How do you know that the reason that it is so is gender? It might be so since the men might be bigger and stronger. That Sten then has it hard-printed into his mind that there are no female fighters would be his personal interpretation, not how the Talmassran thinks.

I think it's more than his personal interpretation, you have David Gaider say this earlier in the thread:

the Tamassrans wield a huge amount of influence. It's also a female gender role (as all administrative tasks are) (..)

If it was a task within the confines of that gender, yes. Even then a qunari might do it if the need was great enough-- though they would feel a task belonging to another gender beneath them. A male qunari will farm, if he must, just as a female qunari will fight. They won't like it, however.

"task belonging to the gender" seems rather clear, and outside of Sten's individual view/interpretation.

[Mary Kirby]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Corker wrote...

But like I said, I find it strange that a culture which seems so focused on fitting people into society based on ability would slot a twin brother and sister - same parentage, same genetics, same breeding - into different places based on sex instead of actual aptitude.  Not impossible, just odd.

How do you know that the reason that it is so is gender? It might be so since the men might be bigger and stronger. That Sten then has it hard-printed into his mind that there are no female fighters would be his personal interpretation, not how the Talmassran thinks.

Qunari believe the genders are inherently better at certain tasks: No matter how much aptitude a male shows for management, he'd never be as good at it as a female, therefore, it would never be considered efficient to put him into a role where a woman would serve better.  The Tamassrans would find something else he showed aptitude for, and have him do that instead.

[javierabegazo]

Mary Kirby wrote...


Qunari believe the genders are inherently better at certain tasks: No matter how much aptitude a male shows for management, he'd never be as good at it as a female, therefore, it would never be considered efficient to put him into a role where a woman would serve better.  The Tamassrans would find something else he showed aptitude for, and have him do that instead.

Wow, they really are totalitarians at heart

[nightcobra]

they remind me of the ancient persian empire, is that a good assumption or far from the truth?

[Herr Uhl]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Corker wrote...

But like I said, I find it strange that a culture which seems so focused on fitting people into society based on ability would slot a twin brother and sister - same parentage, same genetics, same breeding - into different places based on sex instead of actual aptitude.  Not impossible, just odd.

How do you know that the reason that it is so is gender? It might be so since the men might be bigger and stronger. That Sten then has it hard-printed into his mind that there are no female fighters would be his personal interpretation, not how the Talmassran thinks.

Qunari believe the genders are inherently better at certain tasks: No matter how much aptitude a male shows for management, he'd never be as good at it as a female, therefore, it would never be considered efficient to put him into a role where a woman would serve better.  The Tamassrans would find something else he showed aptitude for, and have him do that instead.

How many jobs are (virtually) gender-exclusive then? Is it only a few or most?

[nightcobra]

there seem to be a lot of our own cultures mixed within thedas, an obvious example of this is with orlais and france. is there a country or culture of people in thedas that resembles the 15th century portuguese? as in friendly opportunistic mercenaries and pirates.

[Mary Kirby]

Herr Uhl wrote...


How many jobs are (virtually) gender-exclusive then? Is it only a few or most?

Most of them. At best, you might see fields (like philosophy or the sciences) that have both genders, but they'd be broken down by discipline. Men would do one sort of research and women would do another. The Ben-Hassrath has both genders but again, they're separated somewhat by specialization. You will almost never find a role in Qunari society that is occupied by both genders doing exactly the same thing.

[TolaGarf]

I so hope we'll get a Qunari centric expansion sometime, for either DAO or DA2. I just find the Qunari quite fascinating.

[Herr Uhl]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

How many jobs are (virtually) gender-exclusive then? Is it only a few or most?

Most of them. At best, you might see fields (like philosophy or the sciences) that have both genders, but they'd be broken down by discipline. Men would do one sort of research and women would do another. The Ben-Hassrath has both genders but again, they're separated somewhat by specialization. You will almost never find a role in Qunari society that is occupied by both genders doing exactly the same thing.

How much would an Qunari meet people outside their line of work then? Does a farmer hang out with the farmers and a mason hang out with the masons etc?

Because if they had homogeneous groups in their social life, that would cut down on unsanctioned pregnancies too.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 03 août 2010 - 05:25 .

[lokithe2nd]

do Qunari literally have leashes around all their mages. "That just seems so excessive."

[Corker]

iTomes wrote...
you rather have to imagine the qunari as insects.

No, I don't.

Insects are either hatched with their behaviors instinctually ingrained, or else influenced by certain environmental variables (e.g., the presence or absense of pheremones) to switch from one behavior set to another. 

Mammals play.  It's how young things develop the social and life skills (like, say, hunting) that their species uses. 

I'm sure qunari play is very different from human play.  But I just can't see qunari toddlers (including, btw, the human and elven qunari) who behave with total composure and decorum.  Cognitive development does not work that way. 

[Herr Uhl]

Corker wrote...

iTomes wrote...
you rather have to imagine the qunari as insects.

No, I don't.

Insects are either hatched with their behaviors instinctually ingrained, or else influenced by certain environmental variables (e.g., the presence or absense of pheremones) to switch from one behavior set to another. 

Mammals play.  It's how young things develop the social and life skills (like, say, hunting) that their species uses. 

I'm sure qunari play is very different from human play.  But I just can't see qunari toddlers (including, btw, the human and elven qunari) who behave with total composure and decorum.  Cognitive development does not work that way. 

There is a whole talk thing with Sten where he is confounded by seeing children doing something peculiar in the market district of Denerim. That something is playing. So logical or not, they don't play.

[Corker]

I think what he says is that "They are too young; send them back to the priests." Children that young and playing should not have been in a mixed public space with adults, they should be 'in school,' for want of a better term.

ETA: Oh, the conversation in camp after?  That I admit I don't recall the particulars of, but I would not be surprised that Sten has never seen children play (he is not a priest who raises children) and does not recall playing himself.  I'd hazard that most people don't remember what they were doing at age 2.

By the time the kids hit the human equivalent of 5-7ish, I'd buy that they are already in training.  I don't know how a creature that cannot even be relied upon to control its own bowels can be in any way 'disciplined,' though.

Modifié par Corker, 03 août 2010 - 06:21 .

[Nerevar-as]

Will we know more about those enemies Sten mentioned in the elven forest? It was chilling how he seemed about to cry when you asked him about them.

[iTomes]

Corker wrote...

iTomes wrote...
you rather have to imagine the qunari as insects.

No, I don't.

Insects are either hatched with their behaviors instinctually ingrained, or else influenced by certain environmental variables (e.g., the presence or absense of pheremones) to switch from one behavior set to another. 

Mammals play.  It's how young things develop the social and life skills (like, say, hunting) that their species uses. 

I'm sure qunari play is very different from human play.  But I just can't see qunari toddlers (including, btw, the human and elven qunari) who behave with total composure and decorum.  Cognitive development does not work that way. 

qunari culture is totally different from human culture at almost every point. if you listen to what sten says you know that. qunari dont even have names. and why is it that thing with the toddlers?? what you are is fixed in the qunari society so i guess the childs dont really get the chance to grow up playing and stuff as you are used to. those chidls dont even have parents.

[Herr Uhl]

Corker wrote...

I think what he says is that "They are too young; send them back to the priests." Children that young and playing should not have been in a mixed public space with adults, they should be 'in school,' for want of a better term.

I took it as that the priests are very strict in their upbringing. I couldn't find a complete transcript of the conversation though, and it was a while since I heard it.

[Corker]

Ninja'd my post, Herr. I'm rather sure about the trigger (he sounded so anxious, it was adorable), but less so about the camp conversation.

[Fraq Hound]

I'm really interested to hear more about Qunari Females at this point because from the information I've read in this thread It doesn't seem that there is much chance we will see one in DA2.

I wouldn't imagine Qunari have Ambassadors if they only want to conquer and convert other races, they might have traveling merchants who trade in human lands but given the way their society is structured I doubt females are allowed to be merchants either.

We already know they can't be soldiers and even though Qunari do have mages, they view such powers as defects so its not like they are shipping a mage out with every battalion of soldiers.

So unless Bioware produces content that takes place in or revolves around the Qunari homeland I doubt we'll see a female Qunari. Bummer.

[iTomes]

Fraq Hound wrote...

I'm really interested to hear more about Qunari Females at this point because from the information I've read in this thread It doesn't seem that there is much chance we will see one in DA2.

I wouldn't imagine Qunari have Ambassadors if they only want to conquer and convert other races, they might have traveling merchants who trade in human lands but given the way their society is structured I doubt females are allowed to be merchants either.

We already know they can't be soldiers and even though Qunari do have mages, they view such powers as defects so its not like they are shipping a mage out with every battalion of soldiers.

So unless Bioware produces content that takes place in or revolves around the Qunari homeland I doubt we'll see a female Qunari. Bummer.

1. not all qunari are loyal to the qun.
2. i believe females can be merchants, tough im not sure...

[Herr Uhl]

Fraq Hound wrote...

I wouldn't imagine Qunari have Ambassadors if they only want to conquer and convert other races, they might have traveling merchants who trade in human lands but given the way their society is structured I doubt females are allowed to be merchants either. 

We already know they can't be soldiers and even though Qunari do have mages, they view such powers as defects so its not like they are shipping a mage out with every battalion of soldiers.

So unless Bioware produces content that takes place in or revolves around the Qunari homeland I doubt we'll see a female Qunari. Bummer.

One word, Tal'Vashot.

And their ambassadors are their military.

[Andros_Hanarak]

iTomes wrote...

Fraq Hound wrote...

I'm really interested to hear more about Qunari Females at this point because from the information I've read in this thread It doesn't seem that there is much chance we will see one in DA2.

I wouldn't imagine Qunari have Ambassadors if they only want to conquer and convert other races, they might have traveling merchants who trade in human lands but given the way their society is structured I doubt females are allowed to be merchants either.

We already know they can't be soldiers and even though Qunari do have mages, they view such powers as defects so its not like they are shipping a mage out with every battalion of soldiers.

So unless Bioware produces content that takes place in or revolves around the Qunari homeland I doubt we'll see a female Qunari. Bummer.

1. not all qunari are loyal to the qun.
2. i believe females can be merchants, tough im not sure...

I think Sten mentions in camp that females are merchants when he is arguing with your warden about a farmer wanting to be a merchant or some such. If I am not mistaken he also replies to you like he does to Wynne about why would a female want to be male or some such. But I am not 100% sure.

[BallaZs]

Qunarian mentality is just awesome.

Discipline, honor, braveness. That's it.