36 réponses à ce sujet

[BioSpirit]

I found an interesting statement from a project social.bioware.com/project/2739/

Please remember to return and press the popularity cross.
Next update at 5000.

Should every modder now do the same ?
Are there any other means to tweak the popularity ?

Modifié par BioSpirit, 01 août 2010 - 11:26 .

[DarthParametric]

Lol. Seems a bit steep, given that it's already the second highest ranked project at 1335 and only 145pts behind first place. Not to mention he has 3 different projects all based on the same thing, the other two of which are ranked 7 and 10. How much popularity do you really need?

[Hel]

Heh, I wish him or her good luck with that... 5000 votes, Maker help us.

[Arttis]

too bad there is not a butto to press to say it is a bad project.

I seriously doubt it will get 5k.SO I guess it will never be updated.

They are aiming high I suppose.

[tmp7704]

BioSpirit wrote...

Should every modder now do the same ?
Are there any other means to tweak the popularity ?

Well, it's up to you really. If you view the popularity clicks as important then this can apparently work as incentive for people to add their 'vote'.

Personally don't see much point to this, as it can potentially lead to situation where you either sit on content because there isn't enough clicks (which benefits no one and means people who otherwise like your work don't get to enjoy it merely because they aren't numerous enough bunch) ... or for whatever reasons you may not have a sensible update ready for release when the popularity goal gets met, which also benefits no one but maybe people who enjoy cheap drama over intrawebs.

Also, this approach requires the mod to be released unfinished in the first place and in state that requires some serious updates (unless you maybe extend it to "i won't release anything new until you click enough on my old stuff") which i don't think is a good idea in the first place.

[FollowTheGourd]

BioSpirit wrote...
I found an interesting statement from a project social.bioware.com/project/2739/

Please remember to return and press the popularity cross.
Next update at 5000.

Should every modder now do the same ?
Are there any other means to tweak the popularity ?

I could imagine some people would create new accounts to vote with  - getting a new DHCP lease for a new IP address, or doing it at work, school, or a library. But it's probably just the fact that those types of mods get the upvotes a lot easier, which is kind of sad, but not surprising.

Mostly it seems kind of pointless to care about popularity unless you'll get onto or near the front page with it - otherwise, out of complete obscurity on the project page.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 01 août 2010 - 04:22 .

[ladydesire]

DA Nexus ToS This is the section that applies to uploaded content on DA Nexus; please note that deliberately asking for votes in the content description is a offense that will result in being banned from that site. It's things like that, not to mention the general giving of high votes if using a scale of 1-10 that makes me dislike ratings systems in general.

[Phaenan]

That just proves how poorly designed the popularity thingy is. As it is, the older addons are incredibly advantaged and many excellent addons are buried in the 10+ pages because they weren't released months ago and can't possibly get any coverage from the project pages. Vicious cycle anyone ? No wonder some are trying to force their way around the system... Whomever designed the project pages couldn't have imagined a better way to incite people (modders & players alike) to use other sites.
Those popularity scores should be completely removed in favor of some really thought out rating system ; or should at the very least be resetted every month or so... Then one wouldn't have to worry that much about authors directly inciting players to vote. Not especially holding my breath tho.

Modifié par Phaenan, 01 août 2010 - 04:47 .

[BioSpirit]

I agree.

The absolute number of popularity is important in this forum because it will directly measure how visible your project is in the projects. However, the popularity isn't a quality indicator of any kind. In fact the best module ever made for the DAO could lie on a bottom of the pile with zero popularity. It's kinda pathetic. How many modders has already canceled their projects because of that.

I don't know how Sappho's Daughters got that popularity in a two and half months and I don't blame them. Maybe BioWare should do something about it so that modders don't have to descent down to that.

Modifié par BioSpirit, 01 août 2010 - 05:15 .

[Arttis]

I just wish they had a tag that said this mod is finished.

Otherwise when I search this site 80% of everything I look like is unfinished or not even started.

If there is a way to find finished mods easily then please tell me.

[FollowTheGourd]

BioSpirit wrote...
In fact the best module ever made for the DAO could lie on a bottom of the pile with zero popularity. It's kinda pathetic. How many modders has already canceled their projects because of that.

The way I see it, you have a better chance posting your stuff to DANexus and using the social site as a mirror so people don't have to register to download files larger than 2 MB. I only wish there was a, let's just say, different focus there, but at least it's trying to cull the worst of it.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 01 août 2010 - 06:26 .

[tmp7704]

Wish the social site at least fixed that dumb bug where the "last updated" field of the projects never in fact updates. That it remains unfixed for what, 9 months now? despite repeated requests, is beyond ridiculous...

[FollowTheGourd]

Yep, it's why I put try to put the file version in the title, for whatever little that's worth.

[errant_knight]

BioSpirit wrote...

I found an interesting statement from a project social.bioware.com/project/2739/

Please remember to return and press the popularity cross.
Next update at 5000.

Should every modder now do the same ?
Are there any other means to tweak the popularity ?

I had to go see who thought this was a fine idea. Luckily, I couldn't be less interested in the 'project.'  People try this in fanfiction, too, and it generally gets a negative reaction.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I'm really hoping Bioware gets it's act together and gets a toolset/social site update out sometime soon. It's desperately needed.

[Proleric]

Bioware's silence over the toolset and the social site has continued for so long now that for practical purposes I'm assuming that improvement is unlikely.

On topic, as a former NWN guy, I'd expect gentle guidance from community members if an author tried to promote their work too aggressively. I made at least one unintentional faux pas myself in the early days, and appreciated the friendly advice. I don't recall anyone offering "rewards for votes" there, but it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Can anyone from a different background explain why DANexus takes such a hard line on it?

In terms of past modding experience, we're a multicultural community now, so if there's some important aspect of diversity that we should respect here, I'd like to understand.

[nezroy]

Proleric1 wrote...

Can anyone from a different background explain why DANexus takes such a hard line on it?

Mainly because that is one of the selling points of the site and one of its core features. The Nexus sites have always tried to provide an accurate measure of mod quality so that it's easy to find good mods that do you what you want w/o having to wade through pages and pages of crap. This started way before DANexus; it has always been a goal of the Nexus-family sites in general. Hence the evolution over time from a useless 1-to-10 rating scale to a thumbs up/down approach, the various ways they try to normalize mod votes against the age of the mod, vastly improved search and categorization over what the social site can do, and the overall discouragement of any attempts to "game" the rating system.

[ladydesire]

The Nexus sites have a Top 100 mods list that is based on the
popularity of mods, as well as a Files of the Month system;
both of these would be adversely affected if modders could "
buy" votes for their mods. It's not unlike the NWVault Hall of
Fame, though I don't know what the vote threshold is for
listing on the Nexus.

@nezroy: Does Dragon Age really need 37 categories for mods? I would be happier with fewer categories and better sorting options within those categories, to be honest.

Modifié par ladydesire, 02 août 2010 - 10:42 .

[Moon Elf13]

BioSpirit wrote...
I found an interesting statement from a project social.bioware.com/project/2739/

Please remember to return and press the popularity cross.
Next update at 5000.

Should every modder now do the same ?
Are there any other means to tweak the popularity ?

Heavens forbid. I can only hope no other modders resort to that 'tactic'. It's cheap and wrong. If a modder conditions the update and improvement of his/her mod on it getting enough popularity votes, then there is something seriously wrong with them. One should have enough pride in his/her work to finish and improve it regardless of popularity. Can anyone imagine a writer publishing a half-finished story or book, or an artist presenting a half-finished painting, drawing or statue? A modder, whether he or she specializes in code and scripting, dialog writing, or creating new skins, textures and vfx, is an artist for all intents and purposes, and as such should only care to make his or her work as good as they can. Popularity does not factor in.

Modifié par Moon Elf13, 02 août 2010 - 12:01 .

[Arttis]

Considering there are only so many people who use mods and even take the time to make an account.There is a limit to how many pop votes you can even get.I doubt 5k is even possible atm.

[ladydesire]

Most people that use mods don't bother to vote most of the time; look at the download counts and then look at the popularity numbers.

[FollowTheGourd]

If a mod is half-decent, a download to endorsement ratio of about 100:1 or 200:1 seems to be pretty normal from what I've seen on DANexus. But you'll probably get more downloads and endorsements if you update frequently, so you'll be on that page with the other recently updated mods (to avoid abusing that, I try to update only when I need to and not to nitpick everything that could use editing). Plus it *seems* like people can endorse again on DANexus when you make a new version, but I'm honestly not sure how that works.

I'm also not sure how strictly they enforce the no-solicitation rule at DANexus anyway. At least it seems to be open to some interpretation according to a mod in the thread about it, and it seemed that perhaps they'd turn a blind eye to it if it's not aggressive or blackmailing. I don't really know other than plenty of projects on DANexus solicit votes anyway. At least they're good at clearing out spam projects, which makes a much bigger difference to me.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 02 août 2010 - 04:09 .

[Kesaru]

Before I found out completely by accident that you rated a project up by clicking the cross, I thought that popularity was assigned automatically based on the number of views and downloads.
That would have been a much better system.

I also have to wonder how many people actually even know how to rate up projects.

Modifié par Kesaru, 03 août 2010 - 03:47 .

[Petehog]

ladydesire wrote...

DA Nexus ToS This is the section that applies to uploaded content on DA Nexus; please note that deliberately asking for votes in the content description is a offense that will result in being banned from that site. It's things like that, not to mention the general giving of high votes if using a scale of 1-10 that makes me dislike ratings systems in general.

I personally feel it's more fair to use a "thumbs up", "thumbs down" to rate mods as opposed to a scale. Because people tend to go on extremes on scales.

That being said, I like Dragon Age Nexus's rating system a whole lot more than Bioware Social Network..but even it isn't flawless.

The things I like are...you can't "beg" for endorsements. The rules of the Nexus state that you cannot do so. There are some that still do...but it is mostly because they are unaware of the rules or they haven't been reported.

The second thing I lke is that they have two types of rating systems. One bases popularity based on what has been popular over the past two weeks. It doesn't matter if you haven't been around since 7 months ago..if you make a new mod and people like it..and popularity racks up...you'll be at the top..So the rating isn't based on tenure, but it's based on what is "hot" for the past two weeks. There are many, many, many mods on Bioware Social Network which are absolutely fantastic but we never get a chance to see them because they are buried among the other mods...The second method bases mods that have been popular of..all time. Generally, these are based on tenure...

I guess what really irked me about Bioware's rating system is that mods that came first...generally win. As an example, I don't doubt for a fact that the "Respec" mod is a fantastic mod....but in Bioware Social Network....it trumps other mods...which I find much more valuable. As an example, some of the best mods in Dragon Age Nexus are some you will never even see on the list in BSN.

The third thing I like is that "theoretical" or "WIP" mods are not allowed on the Nexus. The rule is if you put up a mod, there needs to be a file. If there's no file, it's out. I can't tell you how much it irked me to open up a mod only to find out it's just something that doesn't exist yet.

The fourth thing that I like is the ability to place a negative endorsement. I rarely use it because I don't feel it's fair to judge people who make mods and give them to us freely...but I will give negative endorsements if what is shown is decietful and nothing close to the truth.  I never place a negative endorsement if it "clashes" with other mods..because that can't be helped. (It used to ****** me off when people did that to me..because there was no f-ing way I could keep up with other new mods that came up)...But I do put a negative endorsement, if I feel I've been lied to...

Finally, I love the categories. I like to browse within categories and see what's doing well..and check out what's cool.

Moon Elf13 wrote...

Heavens forbid. I can only hope no
other modders resort to that 'tactic'. It's cheap and wrong. If a modder
conditions the update and improvement of his/her mod on it getting
enough popularity votes, then there is something seriously wrong with
them. One should have enough pride in his/her work to finish and improve
it regardless of popularity. Can anyone imagine a writer publishing a
half-finished story or book, or an artist presenting a half-finished
painting, drawing or statue? A modder, whether he or she specializes in
code and scripting, dialog writing, or creating new skins, textures and
vfx, is an artist for all intents and purposes, and as such should only
care to make his or her work as good as they can. Popularity does not
factor in.

One of the best quotes I've read. It's so true. People who beg for endorsements are doing this out of insecurity..it's sad when people are depending on forums and little plus signs to get their confidence up. These things should be done for your own enjoyment and also to the enjoyment of others. But when it becomes a popularity game, it's so childish.

Modifié par Petehog, 05 août 2010 - 11:52 .

[ladydesire]

Petehog wrote...


The things I like are...you can't "beg" for endorsements. The rules of the Nexus state that you cannot do so. There are some that still do...but it is mostly because they are unaware of the rules or they haven't been reported.

It's possible that the main concern over on the Nexus sites is blatent advertising that you won't update the main mod unless you get a certain number of endorsements; the few I have seen seem to be doing it to reward the endorsers with additional content, not holding needed updates hostage.

The second thing I lke is that they have two types of rating systems. One bases popularity based on what has been popular over the past two weeks. It doesn't matter if you haven't been around since 7 months ago..if you make a new mod and people like it..and popularity racks up...you'll be at the top..So the rating isn't based on tenure, but it's based on what is "hot" for the past two weeks. There are many, many, many mods on Bioware Social Network which are absolutely fantastic but we never get a chance to see them because they are buried among the other mods...The second method bases mods that have been popular of..all time. Generally, these are based on tenure...

The Nexus also uses a "Files of the Month" system with a separate vote, and if I'm not mistaken any given mod can only hold that honor one time.