103 réponses à ce sujet

[BallaZs]

Drasanil wrote...

BallaZs wrote...
I see. But still, I hated that I could be noble only, while other races has 2 options

That's not true, you could be a mage too... granted the origin was more or less the same as the elf mage but still, you had two options.

Ye, but I stated that I dislike playing as a mage. Let me correct myself. The Human race had 2 Origin story (Noble/Mage), the Commoner story is missing:crying:

[Vicious]

I am hyped.



I will be even more hyped if over-the-top dialogue interrupts are added.

[HopHazzard]

BallaZs wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

BallaZs wrote...
I see. But still, I hated that I could be noble only, while other races has 2 options

That's not true, you could be a mage too... granted the origin was more or less the same as the elf mage but still, you had two options.

Ye, but I stated that I dislike playing as a mage. Let me correct myself. The Human race had 2 Origin story (Noble/Mage), the Commoner story is missing:crying:

I kinda get the feeling that Hawke started out with the devs looking at the dropped human commoner storyline and trying to figure out a way to implement it.

[AlanC9]

HopHazzard wrote...

Well, for one thing mages who are the only people who can do magic are incapable of enchanting things because they can't handle the raw lyrium. Whereas dwarves who are incapable of magic invented lyrium smithing.

Magic is the manipulation of energy. Enchantment is the use of lyrium to enhance the physical properties of an object. From a real world perspective, there's not much difference, but in universe magic and enchantment are two different things.

But by this definition is there evidence of any "magic items" in the universe? Both dwarves and the Tranquil make items with lyrium. Mages don't seem to make items at all.

Edit: though that does raise interesting questions. Where did Flemeth get Morrigan's upgraded robes, for instance. Though maybe she's immune to lyrium?

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 août 2010 - 07:46 .

[aries1001]

There's one thing that always has been puzzling me; what are wolves doing wiht coins or healing potions. In DA:O, it seems that wolves and even marbari war dogs, the enemies' wardogs, have this, too. I can sort of understand why the Darkspawn have money, since they were once former humans etc. But i cannot for the live of me understand why wolves etc. must have money and healing poultices on them.



And things that we today know how works, may have seemed magical to these people e.g. (just as an example) the saracens moon shaped blades that did cut through anything and were rather strong, too. This had too (i'm told) with the way the sword was made, and the minerals they've used to fold the iron and steel? together.



Basically, isn't lyrium a metal? that can be extracted and used to either healing or forged into weapons or armour to make them stronger. In a medieval world, our aspirins that cures headaches must seem magical - and perhaps a bit frigthening, too...

[dislye]

I can slighty understand why people are upset from not having a choice to play as other races but that was DAO's special hook. It is honestly self explanatory. The subtitle it "Origins" so of course you would have different origins nad so on. This time the focus is on someone else sure, but that doesn't mean the Warden's story is over. I am more than positive Bioware will come back to the Warden's story sooner or later and that makes it even more awesome. You have this setting where you play as different people but the story continues to rotate around each of them. That is serious storytelling and it's awesome.

[Dick Delaware]

Guys, I'm sure that there's a reasonable middle ground for inventory management that can make things fun without resorting to pack-rat behaviour and running back to traders to sell that mountain of useless sh*t you found in the Deep Roads.



I think that the key here would be to remove some of the filler you could gather (i.e. blank vellums, lots of iron daggers everywhere) and instead focus on having loot provided either through chests (GOOD loot, not garbage for traders) or through defeating powerful enemies. Also, it would be much better to get powerful items through quest completion rewards as well. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed at the back-scratcher Harrowmont gave me after I made him King.



So yeah, more loot that you get from enemies like Dragons, which makes things very rewarding, or through completion of quests, and less loot for just mowing down mobs of wolves.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dick Delaware wrote...
Guys, I'm sure that there's a reasonable middle ground for inventory management that can make things fun without resorting to pack-rat behaviour and running back to traders to sell that mountain of useless sh*t you found in the Deep Roads.

So yeah, more loot that you get from enemies like Dragons, which makes things very rewarding, or through completion of quests, and less loot for just mowing down mobs of wolves.

I 100% agree with your suggestions.  The inventory system in 99% of RPGs, Western or Japanese, is a piece of complete s***.  Don't get me wrong, I love being able to customize my look and the equipment of my companions too.  That's fun.  But that should take five minutes at camp between missions tops, not two hours of running back and forth dealing with vendor trash.

joriandrake wrote...

In RPG the normal way to get cash is not through rewards but to sell stuff, and you also use that cash to buy what you want, also it is normal to be able to equip yourself and your companions, don't you dare taking these possibilities out

You know, just because something's part of the RPG system doesn't mean it's good.  BG2 and PS:T were incredible works of CRPG goodness.  And I modded the crap out of them because I simply could not stand the inventory management.  We play games to have FUN.  Netting several hours of inventory management just to get enough cash to buy stuff is decidedly NOT FUN.  I'd rather...I dunno, make Excel spreadsheets or edit papers then spend hours in that stupid inventory screen trying to decide whether that +3 Knife of Ogre-slaying is worth more than whatever weird loot I've just found.

[StreetlightEagle]

I felt hyped once... A long time ago in the early months of the year 2010 a sequel to one of my all time favourite games was about to be released. I absorbed every single bit of info I could find and became more excited for a product than I have ever been in my life. I finished that game and it felt like a small part of my soul died. Never again will I be drawn in to hype. May my naivete rest in peace.

[Dick Delaware]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I 100% agree with your suggestions.  The inventory system in 99% of RPGs, Western or Japanese, is a piece of complete s***.  Don't get me wrong, I love being able to customize my look and the equipment of my companions too.  That's fun.  But that should take five minutes at camp between missions tops, not two hours of running back and forth dealing with vendor trash.

As much as folks cringe when they hear the word "streamlining", I think we need to remove some of the more time-consuming elements of inventory management that don't really add much to the game.

Ideally, I think an inventory requires three things:

* Trade-offs: This is the tactical parts, and maybe more of an issue with overall design and game mechanics than inventory, but it's worth a mention. Do you take the heavy armor that absorbs more damage or the light armor that allows you to move more quickly and dodge? You've found a high-powered assault rifle that can mow people down like nothing, but the silenced pistol you have is great for the stealthy assassin approach, and it can be concealed, so it's better for different situations.

* Proper rewards: Don't just sprinkle in trash everywhere. Likewise, don't throw a ton of +73 Longswords at me either. Make me feel like I've earned it. I slay the High Dragon and I found some awesome armor and some very high quality runes - awesome! I open chest after chest only to find blank vellums, low quality daggers and vendor trash - not so awesome. Getting something new should feel like opening a Christmas present. So less loot overall, but more quality loot. If you're going to throw a bunch of vendor trash at me and force me to make a trip to sell it anyways, why not just give me money instead? That's some streamlining that I could get behind.

* Vanity: Yes goddamnit. I want to look awesome. End of story. I remember playing Bloodlines as a Male Ventrue and finally getting the Body Armor at the end and staring in awe at how much of a sexy bastard I was. That game had a very good inventory system in general: the rewards and magical items you got were usually quite useful (and had cool descriptions), loot was sparse but when you got something it was special, and the different types of armors made your character look like a sexy bastard. So yeah, it rocked.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
You know, just because something's part of the RPG system doesn't mean it's good.  BG2 and PS:T were incredible works of CRPG goodness.  And I modded the crap out of them because I simply could not stand the inventory management.  We play games to have FUN.  Netting several hours of inventory management just to get enough cash to buy stuff is decidedly NOT FUN.  I'd rather...I dunno, make Excel spreadsheets or edit papers then spend hours in that stupid inventory screen trying to decide whether that +3 Knife of Ogre-slaying is worth more than whatever weird loot I've just found.

Amen. I don't like the direction that the game industry has been heading the past several years, but even the best RPG's have room for improvements on some of these mechanics.

[Sidney]

Dick Delaware wrote...
I think that the key here would be to remove some of the filler you could gather (i.e. blank vellums, lots of iron daggers everywhere) and instead focus on having loot provided either through chests (GOOD loot, not garbage for traders) or through defeating powerful enemies. Also, it would be much better to get powerful items through quest completion rewards as well. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed at the back-scratcher Harrowmont gave me after I made him King.

I think this is the key.

For example, say you battle Jarvia. The total loot in her lair totals up to 15 gold. Would you rather strip the boots off 20  dead guards and then steal change out of the pockets of 10 more or find Jarvia's payroll box with 10 gold and a magic dagger worth 3 GP and a rune worth 2 GP? Same amount of loot, more immediate reward in "goodies" but a lot less clicking on dead bodies and wrestling with inventory slots - you'd save money on backpacks!

[Morroian]

Jaryd theBlackDragon wrote...

So far I haven't heard anything yet to take away my fear that DA2 is turning into a ME knockoff,

What about the fact that combat on the PC will be largely unchanged to pick 1 bit of information that the devs have stated.. 

Modifié par Morroian, 02 août 2010 - 03:52 .

[joriandrake]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I 100% agree with your suggestions.  The inventory system in 99% of RPGs, Western or Japanese, is a piece of complete s***.  Don't get me wrong, I love being able to customize my look and the equipment of my companions too.  That's fun.  But that should take five minutes at camp between missions tops, not two hours of running back and forth dealing with vendor trash.

As much as folks cringe when they hear the word "streamlining", I think we need to remove some of the more time-consuming elements of inventory management that don't really add much to the game.

Ideally, I think an inventory requires three things:

* Trade-offs: This is the tactical parts, and maybe more of an issue with overall design and game mechanics than inventory, but it's worth a mention. Do you take the heavy armor that absorbs more damage or the light armor that allows you to move more quickly and dodge? You've found a high-powered assault rifle that can mow people down like nothing, but the silenced pistol you have is great for the stealthy assassin approach, and it can be concealed, so it's better for different situations.

* Proper rewards: Don't just sprinkle in trash everywhere. Likewise, don't throw a ton of +73 Longswords at me either. Make me feel like I've earned it. I slay the High Dragon and I found some awesome armor and some very high quality runes - awesome! I open chest after chest only to find blank vellums, low quality daggers and vendor trash - not so awesome. Getting something new should feel like opening a Christmas present. So less loot overall, but more quality loot. If you're going to throw a bunch of vendor trash at me and force me to make a trip to sell it anyways, why not just give me money instead? That's some streamlining that I could get behind.

* Vanity: Yes goddamnit. I want to look awesome. End of story. I remember playing Bloodlines as a Male Ventrue and finally getting the Body Armor at the end and staring in awe at how much of a sexy bastard I was. That game had a very good inventory system in general: the rewards and magical items you got were usually quite useful (and had cool descriptions), loot was sparse but when you got something it was special, and the different types of armors made your character look like a sexy bastard. So yeah, it rocked.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
You know, just because something's part of the RPG system doesn't mean it's good.  BG2 and PS:T were incredible works of CRPG goodness.  And I modded the crap out of them because I simply could not stand the inventory management.  We play games to have FUN.  Netting several hours of inventory management just to get enough cash to buy stuff is decidedly NOT FUN.  I'd rather...I dunno, make Excel spreadsheets or edit papers then spend hours in that stupid inventory screen trying to decide whether that +3 Knife of Ogre-slaying is worth more than whatever weird loot I've just found.

Amen. I don't like the direction that the game industry has been heading the past several years, but even the best RPG's have room for improvements on some of these mechanics.

for me it seems that you and many others who complain about inventory are actually have a problem with rewards instead

[Sable Rhapsody]

joriandrake wrote...

for me it seems that you and many others who complain about inventory are actually have a problem with rewards instead

I don't have a problem with "rewards."  I have a problem with NOT FUN.  I don't play games to muddle about with inventory slots.  I don't play games to wade my way through idiotic menu-driven combat.  I don't play games to fiddle with bad camera angles.  I play games to hear a good story, kick some ass, and ultimately to have fun.  If there's something in the game that's not fun or taking away from overall fun, then it doesn't belong in the game.  Period.

I'm fine with rewards, I just want them to feel more meaningful and less like work.

[Bugzehat]

Dick Delaware wrote...

As much as folks cringe when they hear the word "streamlining", I think we need to remove some of the more time-consuming elements of inventory management that don't really add much to the game.

I agree. For that matter, could someone who disagrees with this explain what it is about the current inventory system (complete with vendor trash) that makes it worth preserving? Perhaps I'm missing something, but as far as I can tell, the argument is just that it's more of a "traditional" CRPG system and should be kept for that reason alone. Maybe people fear that changing X element of the traditional CRPG will lead to Y and Z -- more important things like combat and character development --- being changed too, I don't know, but there's no reason that that should be the case.

[dislye]

I agree with you guys and gals about the inventory. I do not mind it getting trading and selling goods( it kind of makes it feel like you're really on a journey ) but after 100+ items......thing's get pretty tedious. I am more interested in the "Role Playing" in an RPG...not so much the "Game" part lol

[Kritanakom]

I do not enjoy being the kleptomaniac hero... except when I'm *trying* to be the lock-picking, pick-pocketing, rogue guy! >



If we must have lots of loot, we should be able to talk to the party rogue and order him/her to scavenge the bodis for "anything useful" (like the Mabari hound's fetch and clean up blood feature).



It isn't very dignified for the great, noble templar to go around stripping armor off dead bodies and stealing fancy vases, but the pragmatic rogues could get away with the spoils of war! >

[Dick Delaware]

Ashr4m wrote...
Maybe the problem is you and not the whole genre? How about you chose a genre and game you like and not force a genre/game to be like you want your game?

I`m pretty shure there are lots of people like me that like trading and really enjoyed the item system. The system of witcher in my eyes was crap, you just run arround and always take the best items and throw away your other items thats just boring. But you know why i dont complain? Because im aware of the fact that there are people who like this sort of system and this sort of RPG-sub-genre, so i just dont buy those games and stick to the games i like. (Okay i bought this one but i regret it ...)

That's great, but what does that have to do with the problem with the vast majority of inventory systems being akin to offloading junk so that you can buy marginally better junk? Bad systems are bad systems, whether they're mainstays of traditional RPG's or not.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ashr4m wrote...

Maybe the problem is you and not the whole genre? How about you chose a genre and game you like and not force a genre/game to be like you want your game?

I`m pretty shure there are lots of people like me that like trading and really enjoyed the item system. The system of witcher in my eyes was crap, you just run arround and always take the best items and throw away your other items thats just boring. But you know why i dont complain? Because im aware of the fact that there are people who like this sort of system and this sort of RPG-sub-genre, so i just dont buy those games and stick to the games i like. (Okay i bought this one but i regret it ...)

Having an unwieldy inventory system doesn't make a game an RPG any more than standing in a garage makes me a car.  I <3 RPGs.  I've played just about every one that BioWare's made, plus Obsidian's, Fallout, Bethesda games, and oodles of others.  But just because I like the genre doesn't mean I have to love everything about it.  Liking good, clean game design and liking CRPGs were not mutually exclusive the last time I checked.  Or perhaps I've been misinformed, and I'm not allowed to pick out some areas of criticism 

[joriandrake]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Ashr4m wrote...
Maybe the problem is you and not the whole genre? How about you chose a genre and game you like and not force a genre/game to be like you want your game?

I`m pretty shure there are lots of people like me that like trading and really enjoyed the item system. The system of witcher in my eyes was crap, you just run arround and always take the best items and throw away your other items thats just boring. But you know why i dont complain? Because im aware of the fact that there are people who like this sort of system and this sort of RPG-sub-genre, so i just dont buy those games and stick to the games i like. (Okay i bought this one but i regret it ...)

That's great, but what does that have to do with the problem with the vast majority of inventory systems being akin to offloading junk so that you can buy marginally better junk? Bad systems are bad systems, whether they're mainstays of traditional RPG's or not.

In pnp I always wander around with a lot of "junk", it builds character, muscles, and you never know when you need that soap, rubber ducky, or screwdriver

[Vicious]

Having an unwieldy inventory system doesn't make a game an RPG any more than standing in a garage makes me a car.

lol awesome.

[Addai]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

for me it seems that you and many others who complain about inventory are actually have a problem with rewards instead

I don't have a problem with "rewards."  I have a problem with NOT FUN.  I don't play games to muddle about with inventory slots.  I don't play games to wade my way through idiotic menu-driven combat.  I don't play games to fiddle with bad camera angles.  I play games to hear a good story, kick some ass, and ultimately to have fun.  If there's something in the game that's not fun or taking away from overall fun, then it doesn't belong in the game.  Period.

I'm fine with rewards, I just want them to feel more meaningful and less like work.

Why are you playing a tactical combat RPG?  Just curious.

[joriandrake]

Addai67 wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

for me it seems that you and many others who complain about inventory are actually have a problem with rewards instead

I don't have a problem with "rewards."  I have a problem with NOT FUN.  I don't play games to muddle about with inventory slots.  I don't play games to wade my way through idiotic menu-driven combat.  I don't play games to fiddle with bad camera angles.  I play games to hear a good story, kick some ass, and ultimately to have fun.  If there's something in the game that's not fun or taking away from overall fun, then it doesn't belong in the game.  Period.

I'm fine with rewards, I just want them to feel more meaningful and less like work.

Why are you playing a tactical combat RPG?  Just curious.

those are also my thoughts, the most fun combat for RPG-s for me are games with tactical/turn-based combat like Fallout or indy games like the Aveyond series, but it seems many people lately prefer shooters and action games with a hint of RPG instead

Modifié par joriandrake, 03 août 2010 - 05:19 .

[Riona45]

Ashr4m wrote...


Maybe the problem is you and not the whole genre? How about you chose a genre and game you like and not force a genre/game to be like you want your game?

She just said she loved classic RPGs, she just had a problem with the inventory systems.  I don't see why that's a reason for her to divorce herself from a genre she claims to like.