291 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

HeatClipNotFound wrote...

Leliana, who is that, was that the chick in Dragon Age Origin who was singing when I was trying to make nice with all my party members. That song was so horrible bad I wished I could target and attack her for experience points.

I liked every character, EVERY character in some manner or another in DA...EXCEPT Liliana...My hatred for her far FAR exceeds the hatred I have for Liara (Hmmm sensing a pattern here....Any characters with a name beginning with "L" is a fair chance I may end up hating ) However, unlike my hatred for Liara, I actually KNOW what it is about her that just....makes me want to choke the life out  of her lol....

1.) She's WAAAAAY too "preachy".  Normally, Im all for folks believing whatever they want to believe but Liliana actually (more or less) tries to force her "faith" on everyone in the party....Regularly.

2.) Her fake **** french accent.  Enough said about that, it's pretty self explanitory.

3.) Her singing voice....How in the nine hells did she ever make it as a "bard".  Her singing voice was even worse than her speaking voice.

4.) Way too "feminine".  Yes, that is a breaking point with me.  She seems a little too "Dainty" for my tastes.  Which I suppose can be contributed to her "Bardic Training" so that one really isnt her fault so much as it's just a personal "turn off" for me.  Women like Morrigan and Jack are more along my tastes in women.  Of course, there are exceptions (Miranda) but not many.

There are at least two other things, one of which I wont even bother posting out of respect for a certain portion of the community, and the other I cant think of atm but it's right on the tip of my tongue.  I honestly cannot see why Liliana was apparently "worthy" enough to have her own "DLC" unless preachy, goodie goodie naive girls are what's popular with the kids now days.  If that's the case....*shrugs*....Different strokes I guess.

[DPB]

Aradace wrote...

2.) Her fake **** french accent.  Enough said about that, it's pretty self explanitory.

The accent is real, the person that voiced her is from Paris.

[Aradace]

dbankier wrote...

Aradace wrote...

2.) Her fake **** french accent.  Enough said about that, it's pretty self explanitory.

The accent is real, the person that voiced her is from Paris.

It still sounds fake...AND it still sounds like crap

[AlanC9]

Maybe you don't know what the real thing sounds like, then.

[Vibius]

I'm viewing all of DA2 as a DLC because this new game isn't my game. I'd like my voice on my character and I'd like the decisions of my character to be from me. Otherwise I'm playing the game from a different persons point of view and I'll play it as such... Like LS DLC.

[Aradace]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe you don't know what the real thing sounds like, then.

....Irrelevant....The point is that she...sounds...like....crap (thats my opinion of course but still lol)

[AlanC9]

It's not irrelevant when you keep saying she sounds fake, Aradace. Don't double down on something you're wrong about; concentrate on the part you can't be wrong about instead.

[In Exile]

LdyShayna wrote...

So in short, many companies that attempt to move from niche markets where they were successful to broad market appeal end up failing to make even the money they made while in their niche. They lose their loyal base in an attempt to appeal to the broader market, the broader market is fickle and hard to get brand loyalty with because they have dozens and dozens of games to choose from, and making AAA games is so expensive that most AAA games don't make money. So no, it does not always make sense. Does any of this apply to BioWare? Hah! I'm hardly in a position to be objective enough to say either way.

Not to doubt your anecdote, but some companies is not an example of any company, indie developer who lost his porshe aside.

That being said, when has Bioware not made AAA games? BG by its time was very much top of the line in terms of graphics for its genre, cost and development time. KoTOR was a joint project with LucasArts - as big as you can get. JE was initially a console-only release with an action RPG system centered on story telling - the very thing that people here denounce as trying to reach out to the 'dumbed down' mainstream.

Even we agree that an indie developer can often destroy themselves by reaching outside their niche, when has Bioware actually done ever been a niche company?

Dragon Age most certainly was not a niche game in terms of how it sold; and if you recall from the old forums, it was heavily derided specifically by the BG crowd for being 'dumbed down'. The inventory system, the MMO-like combat, the fact that stats weren't included in spell descriptions, the fact that we had origins that dramatically restricted roleplay, the fact that races were so restricted.... I just don't recall an old forum where DA was well received as a succesor to BG.

And then we had the marketing crisis, where people left and right were claiming Bioware had abandoned them and were catering to the absolutely wrong kind of market and that DA had been stripped down for a console crowd. All of which are being said about DA2.

Now, I can appreciate that we know that many DA features will not be in DA2. But it was the same for many BG features being absent in DA.

I just think Bioware has been moving away from this sort of game for a decade now, and they were never the niche developer that people think they were. The genre didn't lend itself to FPS or sport game like sales, but in RPGs, Bioware absolutely had the top releases of the genre. I think there isn't a game they had that wasn't a critical success. KoTOR had awards; NWN had awards; JE had awards; ME had awards, etc.

Now, you take a game like Torchlight that barely anyone ever heard of (I didn't know it existed until 3 days ago on this forum) and that's niche.

[Onyx Jaguar]

BG2 is one of the most beautiful games ever made. Don't tell me that was made on an indy budget



Hell even their first game Shattered Steel was made to ride on the success of the Mech games (Earthsiege, Mech Warrior)

[Aradace]

AlanC9 wrote...

It's not irrelevant when you keep saying she sounds fake, Aradace. Don't double down on something you're wrong about; concentrate on the part you can't be wrong about instead.

And to me it still sounds fake....Why are you arguing this point? lol  She doesnt sound natural...Her acting sounds very "Forced".   Whether she is "native" or not is what Im saying is irrelevant....The fact remains that she sounds fake.  And yes, Ive met and spoken to a few french people in my time (Know enough french to get me around in the country anyway heh.) and none of them....NONE of them....sounded as fake as this woman does.  Hell, Jean Reno doesnt sound HALF as bad as whoever Liliana's VA is and that is my point.

[TheMadCat]

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It's not irrelevant when you keep saying she sounds fake, Aradace. Don't double down on something you're wrong about; concentrate on the part you can't be wrong about instead.

And to me it still sounds fake....Why are you arguing this point? lol  She doesnt sound natural...Her acting sounds very "Forced".   Whether she is "native" or not is what Im saying is irrelevant....The fact remains that she sounds fake.  And yes, Ive met and spoken to a few french people in my time (Know enough french to get me around in the country anyway heh.) and none of them....NONE of them....sounded as fake as this woman does.  Hell, Jean Reno doesnt sound HALF as bad as whoever Liliana's VA is and that is my point.

Irrelevant? How does someone give a fake French accent when they are freaking French? You understand there are various dialects in France depending on region much like every other nation in the world. What little you've heard certainly doesn't make it the same for every other individual in France.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 04 août 2010 - 05:01 .

[Aradace]

TheMadCat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It's not irrelevant when you keep saying she sounds fake, Aradace. Don't double down on something you're wrong about; concentrate on the part you can't be wrong about instead.

And to me it still sounds fake....Why are you arguing this point? lol  She doesnt sound natural...Her acting sounds very "Forced".   Whether she is "native" or not is what Im saying is irrelevant....The fact remains that she sounds fake.  And yes, Ive met and spoken to a few french people in my time (Know enough french to get me around in the country anyway heh.) and none of them....NONE of them....sounded as fake as this woman does.  Hell, Jean Reno doesnt sound HALF as bad as whoever Liliana's VA is and that is my point.

Irrelevant? How does someone give a fake French accent when they are freaking French? You understand there are various dialects in France depending on region much like every other nation in the world.

And that's fine....again....Regardless of dialect....Regardless of nativity (is that even a word? lol) She sounds like crap.  That's my opinion and no amount of you or anyone else talking about dialects or people being native is going to change my opinion of it....Get offended if you like, but Liliana STILL sounds like crap....

[joriandrake]

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe you don't know what the real thing sounds like, then.

....Irrelevant....The point is that she...sounds...like....crap (thats my opinion of course but still lol)

you just don't like leliana or french people and thus you turn the hatred towards the voice actor

[Aradace]

joriandrake wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe you don't know what the real thing sounds like, then.

....Irrelevant....The point is that she...sounds...like....crap (thats my opinion of course but still lol)

you just don't like leliana or french people and thus you turn the hatred towards the voice actor

And now you're putting words in my mouth making it into something it isnt .  The first half of that statement is true....(Of course had you read my original post you'd know that but like many others, you cant be bothered with that apparently ) the second half however is not.  Just because I dont like ONE Voice Actor/ress doesnt mean I dont like their entire ethnic culture.  I just dont like her, she sounds like rubbish.  I like Jean Reno....He's cooler than the other side of the pillow ....But the lady who does Liliana, not so much.

[TheMadCat]

Aradace wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It's not irrelevant when you keep saying she sounds fake, Aradace. Don't double down on something you're wrong about; concentrate on the part you can't be wrong about instead.

And to me it still sounds fake....Why are you arguing this point? lol  She doesnt sound natural...Her acting sounds very "Forced".   Whether she is "native" or not is what Im saying is irrelevant....The fact remains that she sounds fake.  And yes, Ive met and spoken to a few french people in my time (Know enough french to get me around in the country anyway heh.) and none of them....NONE of them....sounded as fake as this woman does.  Hell, Jean Reno doesnt sound HALF as bad as whoever Liliana's VA is and that is my point.

Irrelevant? How does someone give a fake French accent when they are freaking French? You understand there are various dialects in France depending on region much like every other nation in the world.

And that's fine....again....Regardless of dialect....Regardless of nativity (is that even a word? lol) She sounds like crap.  That's my opinion and no amount of you or anyone else talking about dialects or people being native is going to change my opinion of it....Get offended if you like, but Liliana STILL sounds like crap....

And that is completely fine, I have no problem with you saying she sounds like crap. But her sounding like crap doesn't mean she's portraying a fake accent. 

[joriandrake]

Aradace wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe you don't know what the real thing sounds like, then.

....Irrelevant....The point is that she...sounds...like....crap (thats my opinion of course but still lol)

you just don't like leliana or french people and thus you turn the hatred towards the voice actor

And now you're putting words in my mouth making it into something it isnt .  The first half of that statement is true....(Of course had you read my original post you'd know that but like many others, you cant be bothered with that apparently ) the second half however is not.  Just because I dont like ONE Voice Actor/ress doesnt mean I dont like their entire ethnic culture.  I just dont like her, she sounds like rubbish.  I like Jean Reno....He's cooler than the other side of the pillow ....But the lady who does Liliana, not so much.

actually I just read the very last page nothing more, and it lis to me obvious you dislike the character and reflect your feeling upon the VA

[Aradace]

TheMadCat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It's not irrelevant when you keep saying she sounds fake, Aradace. Don't double down on something you're wrong about; concentrate on the part you can't be wrong about instead.

And to me it still sounds fake....Why are you arguing this point? lol  She doesnt sound natural...Her acting sounds very "Forced".   Whether she is "native" or not is what Im saying is irrelevant....The fact remains that she sounds fake.  And yes, Ive met and spoken to a few french people in my time (Know enough french to get me around in the country anyway heh.) and none of them....NONE of them....sounded as fake as this woman does.  Hell, Jean Reno doesnt sound HALF as bad as whoever Liliana's VA is and that is my point.

Irrelevant? How does someone give a fake French accent when they are freaking French? You understand there are various dialects in France depending on region much like every other nation in the world.

And that's fine....again....Regardless of dialect....Regardless of nativity (is that even a word? lol) She sounds like crap.  That's my opinion and no amount of you or anyone else talking about dialects or people being native is going to change my opinion of it....Get offended if you like, but Liliana STILL sounds like crap....

And that is completely fine, I have no problem with you saying she sounds like crap. But her sounding like crap doesn't mean she's portraying a fake accent. 

If the way this lady sounds is her "natural" accent, then I suppose just about any "american" or other "non french citizen" can come up with a pretty convincing "French Accent" and be passed off as a native right?  Because that's ultimately what I meant by "fake"  She literally sounds like your average american woman using a feaux accent to play the character.  In hindsight, perhaps "Feaux" should have been the word I used instead of "fake".  Then again, I had not taken into consideration the "thin skins" people wear now days apparently.

[Aradace]

joriandrake wrote...

Aradace wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Aradace wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Maybe you don't know what the real thing sounds like, then.

....Irrelevant....The point is that she...sounds...like....crap (thats my opinion of course but still lol)

you just don't like leliana or french people and thus you turn the hatred towards the voice actor

And now you're putting words in my mouth making it into something it isnt .  The first half of that statement is true....(Of course had you read my original post you'd know that but like many others, you cant be bothered with that apparently ) the second half however is not.  Just because I dont like ONE Voice Actor/ress doesnt mean I dont like their entire ethnic culture.  I just dont like her, she sounds like rubbish.  I like Jean Reno....He's cooler than the other side of the pillow ....But the lady who does Liliana, not so much.

actually I just read the very last page nothing more, and it lis to me obvious you dislike the character and reflect your feeling upon the VA

Well, that's your problem then now isnt it? Too bad that's not the case

[joriandrake]

As I mentioned in other threads I don't care about accents to begin with, picking voice actors for imaginary fantasy cultures based on real accents is just silly and restricts options

Modifié par joriandrake, 04 août 2010 - 05:14 .

[LdyShayna]

In Exile wrote...
Not to doubt your anecdote, but some companies is not an example of any company, indie developer who lost his porshe aside.

Then I suppose you're going to have to trust me that the Porche thing is an actual example.   I've just seen it repeatedly, but have no desire to violate any sorts of confidences.  Apologies.

I just think Bioware has been moving away from this sort of game for a decade now, and they were never the niche developer that people think they were. The genre didn't lend itself to FPS or sport game like sales, but in RPGs, Bioware absolutely had the top releases of the genre. I think there isn't a game they had that wasn't a critical success. KoTOR had awards; NWN had awards; JE had awards; ME had awards, etc.

Ah.  We have different definitions of niche, then.  I'm talking about a distinct segment of the market vs a broad or overlapping segments.  It need not be a vanishingly small segment, though some are if they're very specific ones.  

However, I will admit that some of the examples and issues were people moving from small niches to broad market appeal, thus from small budget to AAA budget, so some definitely do not apply to BioWare - as I noted.

Modifié par LdyShayna, 04 août 2010 - 05:21 .

[the_one_54321]

I still don't understand the obsession with options. Options can also be limitations. It just depends on who you want to tell the story. I tend to trust professional authors to tell a story better than I can. I was most worried about the mechanics in this game, for which I received much official reassurances. So I'm still, personally, pretty hopeful about this. A fantastic story should be forthcoming.

[In Exile]

LdyShayna wrote...

Then I suppose you're going to have to trust me that the Porche thing is an actual example.   I've just seen it repeatedly, but have no desire to violate any sorts of confidences.  Apologies.

That's fair. I wouldn't ask anyone to violate the confidence of another person. It's just hard to take someone at face value with an anecdote alone.

Ah.  We have different definitions of niche, then.  I'm talking about a distinct segment of the market vs a broad or overlapping segments.  It need not be a vanishingly small segment, though some are if they're very specific ones.

I'm not sure which scale of company we are talking about, then.

There are serious problems with segmenting the market as you're doing, though. Take you and I, for example. We've bought some Bioware titles (possibly many Bioware titles). I own a large library of Bioware games - everything except shattered steel and the sonic game.

Yet for the games that we have bought, I absolutely do not think we count as the same segment. I think VO is a dramatic improvement. I have an entirely different take on what it means to have an option in game. When Bioware moves away from a silent protagonist to a voiced one, they are adding a feature that makes it far more likely I will buy their game because I bought others in spite of it. I dislike the entire 'character skill must drive combat' meme because I think it makes for a bad game, despite the obvious logical neccesity to it.

Or let's take a game like NWN. I bought it looking for SP. I never once played MP; don't care for persistent worlds, and don't care for the idea of not being the central character to the story. Yet there is a very hardcore group of fans of MP and persistent worlds.

Defining something like a market is very hard, because we all have different tastes that might overlap with a game. I don't like this idea of essentialism.

[TheMadCat]

Aradace wrote...

If the way this lady sounds is her "natural" accent, then I suppose just about any "american" or other "non french citizen" can come up with a pretty convincing "French Accent" and be passed off as a native right?  Because that's ultimately what I meant by "fake"  She literally sounds like your average american woman using a feaux accent to play the character.  In hindsight, perhaps "Feaux" should have been the word I used instead of "fake".  Then again, I had not taken into consideration the "thin skins" people wear now days apparently.

Not so much thin skinned as it is a distaste of people proclaiming things which I know are false. As I said I have zero problem with you calling her performance crap, but don't like seeing people proclaiming something that is complete BS. Again, how can you conclude a French accent is fake simply because it's different then the minute few you've heard in your life. If you gaffed then so be it, that's the end of that.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 04 août 2010 - 05:26 .

[Aradace]

TheMadCat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

If the way this lady sounds is her "natural" accent, then I suppose just about any "american" or other "non french citizen" can come up with a pretty convincing "French Accent" and be passed off as a native right?  Because that's ultimately what I meant by "fake"  She literally sounds like your average american woman using a feaux accent to play the character.  In hindsight, perhaps "Feaux" should have been the word I used instead of "fake".  Then again, I had not taken into consideration the "thin skins" people wear now days apparently.

Not so much thin skinned as it is a distaste of people proclaiming things which I know are false. As I said I have zero problem with you calling her performance crap, but don't like seeing people proclaiming something that is complete BS. Again, how can you conclude a French accent is fake simply because it's different then the minute few you've heard in your life. If you gaffed then so be it, that's the end of that.

 
Right, but you still never answered my question....And by not answering it you either A.) Dont have an acceptable answer.....or B.) Are silently admitting that just about any american or non french civillian can pass off as a convincible french person when they put on a feaux accent....Because as I stated, that's precisely what she sounds like.

[the_one_54321]

Are you talking about Leliana? Because she doesn't talk with a french accent, faux, authentic, or otherwise. She speaks with a Orlesian accent. There is no France in DA.