201 réponses à ce sujet

[zazei]

The Krogan deserves pretty much everything they got and curing the Genophage would be the worst mistake ever. Unless people want to die a horrible death under a army of Krogan running rampage once their population shoot through the roof again.



Wrex is no full solution either. He is just one Krogan and is already pushing his people to the limit on what they seem to toleratre. If the Genophage was cured there would be nothing that force the clans to listen to him and war is bound to happen again. The race as a whole need to change before it would be even worth considering removing the Genophage. Even if they are peaceful it might still be a bad idea and trying to find alternative solution where they only reproduce at the rate of say the Asari might be better before a cure is used.

[joriandrake]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

Krogan have very long lifespans, and considering how much genetic material is shed by an organic in just one year I would imagine samples would be easy to find.

While that is true, we're not talking about just picking up skin cells from random krogan here. He got samples from a number of very specific and famous individuals (e.g. Shiagur.) That stretches the bounds of credulity.

Drago Museveni

That's a bit different.  The Nietzschean race was bio-engineered while the Krogan were not. 

not yet

[joriandrake]

zazei wrote...

The Krogan deserves pretty much everything they got and curing the Genophage would be the worst mistake ever. Unless people want to die a horrible death under a army of Krogan running rampage once their population shoot through the roof again.

Wrex is no full solution either. He is just one Krogan and is already pushing his people to the limit on what they seem to toleratre. If the Genophage was cured there would be nothing that force the clans to listen to him and war is bound to happen again. The race as a whole need to change before it would be even worth considering removing the Genophage. Even if they are peaceful it might still be a bad idea and trying to find alternative solution where they only reproduce at the rate of say the Asari might be better before a cure is used.

Why not just change birthrate and awaited lenght of time to something similar to that of humans? it would still be more humane and the race would get used to having a shorter lifspan as generations pass, just as elves did in DA

[AntiChri5]

Optimystic_X wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

Krogan have very long lifespans, and considering how much genetic material is shed by an organic in just one year I would imagine samples would be easy to find.

While that is true, we're not talking about just picking up skin cells from random krogan here. He got samples from a number of very specific and famous individuals (e.g. Shiagur.) That stretches the bounds of credulity.

It only took 15 minutes for Shepard to get a sample of Hocks dna.

All Okeer would neeed to do is hire a theif to go through their trash.

[Kid_SixXx]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

Krogan have very long lifespans, and considering how much genetic material is shed by an organic in just one year I would imagine samples would be easy to find.

While that is true, we're not talking about just picking up skin cells from random krogan here. He got samples from a number of very specific and famous individuals (e.g. Shiagur.) That stretches the bounds of credulity.

It only took 15 minutes for Shepard to get a sample of Hocks dna.

Hock was still alive.  We're talking about Krogan that have been dead for thousands of years.

[Melancholic]

Of course it doesn't. Without the genophage there would be even MORE krogan around to annoy me!



I fully confess to acting racist towards a fictional species. ;p

[Ultor84]

I'm split on the actual subject, since we lack context. It was a terrible thing to do, but since we really don't know the full story of the Krogan Rebellion, it may have been the only option other than the Council races being whiped out by the Krogan. It would be nice to see it first hand and decide for ourselves, rather than read second and third hand codex entries, as even historians are not immune to bias and prejudice.



Prequel, please, Bioware?



Either way, its an interesting multi-layered metaphor. Salarians really come off as Technocrats, who like many real world people, place an over abundance of confidence on theory and lab conditioned experiments, thus why the law of unintended consequences rarely factors into their thinking. I'd guess it was the same cold Salarian logic that determined the genophage was the only answer to the Krogan problem, was the same logic that determined the Krogan were the only answer to the Rachni problem. Whether or not the Krogan over running the galaxy after the fact was part of their calculations, we'll probably never know.



Without more background on the actual rebellions though, I can't fully damn the Salarians for creating the genophage, but I'd like to think the decision was not made lightly. If the Council races were on the brink of annihilation at the hands of the Krogan horde, who were apparently not above using asteroid drops that rendered entire worlds uninhabitable, I can't fully condemn them for chosing Us, in the question of Us or Them. Not without context, anyway.

[AntiChri5]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

Krogan have very long lifespans, and considering how much genetic material is shed by an organic in just one year I would imagine samples would be easy to find.

While that is true, we're not talking about just picking up skin cells from random krogan here. He got samples from a number of very specific and famous individuals (e.g. Shiagur.) That stretches the bounds of credulity.

It only took 15 minutes for Shepard to get a sample of Hocks dna.

Hock was still alive.  We're talking about Krogan that have been dead for thousands of years.

Where does it say they have been dead for that long?

[joriandrake]

kzzrn wrote...

Why not just change birthrate and awaited lenght of time to something similar to that of humans?

That's what the genophage did.

very NO

The genophage was a biological weapon deployed against the krogan by the during the Krogan Rebellions.
It was designed to severely reduce krogan numbers by "infecting" the species with a genetic mutation. The genophage's modus operandi is not to reduce the fertility of krogan females, but rather the probability of
viable pregnancies: many krogan die in stillbirth, with most foetuses never even reaching this stage of development. Moreover, every cell in each krogan is infected, to prevent the use of gene therapy to counteract it. Though the genophage was not designed as a "sterility plague", the combination of a low frequency of viable pregnancies with the krogan proclivity to violence and indifference about focused breeding leaves the krogan a dying race, and soon to be extinct.
After several hundred years of living with the genophage, the knowledge their species will soon be extinct has created a kind of fatalism amongst the krogan that makes them dangerous opponents—they are
indifferent to who they attack or kill, or what risks they take, as their species is doomed. A few individuals, such as Wrex, have attempted to rebuild the species, or at least curtail its decline, by focusing on breeding, but the inherent belligerence of the krogan usually frustrates their efforts.

What it does is not the modification of lifespan and birthrate, it kills the already living.

Modifié par joriandrake, 06 août 2010 - 03:25 .

[Whatever42]

joriandrake wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

Why not just change birthrate and awaited lenght of time to something similar to that of humans?

That's what the genophage did.

very NO

The genophage was a biological weapon deployed against the krogan by the during the Krogan Rebellions.
It was designed to severely reduce krogan numbers by "infecting" the species with a genetic mutation. The genophage's modus operandi is not to reduce the fertility of krogan females, but rather the probability of
viable pregnancies: many krogan die in stillbirth, with most foetuses never even reaching this stage of development. Moreover, every cell in each krogan is infected, to prevent the use of gene therapy to counteract it. Though the genophage was not designed as a "sterility plague", the combination of a low frequency of viable pregnancies with the krogan proclivity to violence and indifference about focused breeding leaves the krogan a dying race, and soon to be extinct.
After several hundred years of living with the genophage, the knowledge their species will soon be extinct has created a kind of fatalism amongst the krogan that makes them dangerous opponents—they are
indifferent to who they attack or kill, or what risks they take, as their species is doomed. A few individuals, such as Wrex, have attempted to rebuild the species, or at least curtail its decline, by focusing on breeding, but the inherent belligerence of the krogan usually frustrates their efforts.

What it does is not the modification of lifespan and birthrate, it kills the already living.

The codex doesn't mention krogan dying in stillbirth. I don't recall Mordin or Wrex mentioning it. Where do you get that from?

And Krogan are reptiles. Reptiles do not live birth as we do. Some reptiles carry their fertilized eggs, some lay them. From the codex, it sounds like the krogan carry their eggs. But in this case it sounds like the embryos simply don't develop.

Although, I have to say, the codex doesn't seem to be very accurate in regards to the krogan. It says that the krogan population has dwindled but there are several billion krogon on Tuchanka so dwindling must be a very relative term. Still, as soon as the krogan stop warring, their population will stabalize.

[joriandrake]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

Why not just change birthrate and awaited lenght of time to something similar to that of humans?

That's what the genophage did.

very NO

The genophage was a biological weapon deployed against the krogan by the during the Krogan Rebellions.
It was designed to severely reduce krogan numbers by "infecting" the species with a genetic mutation. The genophage's modus operandi is not to reduce the fertility of krogan females, but rather the probability of
viable pregnancies: many krogan die in stillbirth, with most foetuses never even reaching this stage of development. Moreover, every cell in each krogan is infected, to prevent the use of gene therapy to counteract it. Though the genophage was not designed as a "sterility plague", the combination of a low frequency of viable pregnancies with the krogan proclivity to violence and indifference about focused breeding leaves the krogan a dying race, and soon to be extinct.
After several hundred years of living with the genophage, the knowledge their species will soon be extinct has created a kind of fatalism amongst the krogan that makes them dangerous opponents—they are
indifferent to who they attack or kill, or what risks they take, as their species is doomed. A few individuals, such as Wrex, have attempted to rebuild the species, or at least curtail its decline, by focusing on breeding, but the inherent belligerence of the krogan usually frustrates their efforts.

What it does is not the modification of lifespan and birthrate, it kills the already living.

The codex doesn't mention krogan dying in stillbirth. I don't recall Mordin or Wrex mentioning it. Where do you get that from?

I remebered it said in the game, I think by Wrex, this is partly why I oppose the genophage vehemently, but the actual quote is from the Mass Effect Wikia

[Whatever42]

Ah ignore me. Even though I typed it, I read "stillbirth" as "childbirth". Of course the krogan embryos die in stillbirth. The whole point of the geneophase is that these embryos don't develop. My apologies.

[Whatever42]

kzzrn wrote...

The codex doesn't mention krogan dying in stillbirth. I don't recall Mordin or Wrex mentioning it. Where do you get that from?

Given the high fertility rates doesn't making it so that only one in a thousand pregnancies are successful have the same effect?

Well, if krogan lay eggs and carry them internally (I doubt krogan as reptiles have live births like mammals and it wouldn't jive with their very high birthrates) then it would simply be embryos failing to develop. Some people seem to imagine a baby dying but from the description of the genophage I can't see how the embryo would get very far along.

It has the same affect on population but I doubt its anywhere remotely as traumatizing as people imagine. Especially to a race who thinks peeling off a Turians face is a great joke.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 06 août 2010 - 06:54 .

[Epic777]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

kzzrn wrote...

The codex doesn't mention krogan dying in stillbirth. I don't recall Mordin or Wrex mentioning it. Where do you get that from?

Given the high fertility rates doesn't making it so that only one in a thousand pregnancies are successful have the same effect?

Well, if krogan lay eggs and carry them internally (I doubt krogan as reptiles have live births like mammals and it wouldn't jive with their very high birthrates) then it would simply be embryos failing to develop. Some people seem to imagine a baby dying but from the description of the genophage I can't see how the embryo would get very far along.

It has the same affect on population but I doubt its anywhere remotely as traumatizing as people imagine. Especially to a race who thinks peeling off a Turians face is a great joke.

Not according to the speaker for clan weyrloc, in real life japan despite doing brutal things in WW2 found the a-bomb traumatizing, but then again short of talking to a female krogan, who knows

[Whatever42]

Epic777 wrote...

Not according to the speaker for clan weyrloc, in real life japan despite doing brutal things in WW2 found the a-bomb traumatizing, but then again short of talking to a female krogan, who knows

Oh, I know they find the genophage traumatizing. Losing ability to breed countless children and feed them into a never-ending war machine is tearing them up and is personally humiliating to every krogan. That's clear. But the actual physical act of having to dispel unhatched eggs? Meh. After listening about Krogan rituals, these guys do far worse to themselves regularly. And as far as the greater humiliation, as soon as the krogan stop zerging everyone, its gone.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 06 août 2010 - 07:59 .

[Roamingmachine]

This thread is still going on? The krogan were and still ARE a bloodthirsty horde that love nothing more than violence.That inlcudes Wrex.Unlike his brethren he actually has more than two functional braincells to realize that the only way back from the brink as a species is to curb the violence.The genophage was as humane as you can get when you are dealing with people like that.And whoever is suggesting that they could have alter the birthrates....Hate to burst your bubble, but they did just that.More stillborn=lower birthrate.Simple as that.And for traumatizing the poor widdle krogans? The galaxy is STILL not over the trauma the bloody krogans gave it.Krogans simply got their just desserts.The fun little bit about the genophage is that it will be terminal to the species only if they keep acting like bloody morons.That is a stroke of genius in its design.

[joriandrake]

People talk about krogan having eggs, where is that said or written? The only egg laying races I was able to find info about are the salarians and rachni

[Bryy_Miller]

kzzrn wrote...

Yeah, at least the Rachni were mind controlled, what's the Krogan's excuse?

Klingon archetype.

[Whatever42]

joriandrake wrote...

People talk about krogan having eggs, where is that said or written? The only egg laying races I was able to find info about are the salarians and rachni

Total guesswork - at least on my part.

Krogan are reptiles. Reptiles lay eggs or carry fertilized eggs internally.

Krogan reproduce very quickly. An animal the size of a krogan that gave live birth would have a very long gestation period, I'm extrapolating about a year. That doesn't jive with a high reproduction rate.

Also animals that carry live young tend to be very caring of the young. On the other hand, animals like turtles tend to dump them on the beach and let the little tykes figure out themselves what to do. Krogan culture pre-genophage do not seem very caring of their young, except as more bodies for the horde.

Also, Okeer in an analogy mentions about collective human teats, not krogan teats. It leads me to believe krogan don't have mammary glands, which is consistent with reptiles, but also strongly counters the possibility of live birth. 

Of course, this is sci fi. Maybe krogan give birth to litters who leap out fully formed in full battle armor. But I'm guessing that they carry eggs. 

[HCS01]

I was upset with Mordan and his involvement with the Genophage update at first. But he worked just as hard to keep the birthrate from falling as he did to keep it from rising. The Krogan, as a species, and a society, are not ready for space travel. They cast their home world into a nuclear winter because they are ruled by the urge to fight and the desire kill. They are not ready, and so a pre-industrial birthrate prevents a population boom that would threaten the galaxy while giving the Krogan a chance to develope and evolve their society.

[OasisForever1991]

Keep posting guys, your posts are super! :happy: