45 réponses à ce sujet

[MajesticJazz]

Mordin is probably one of the more interesting party members in ME2 but everytime he opens his mouth about Krogan I wish my Shepard could just slap him in the back of the head. Example, this is a paraphrase of what he said about the Krogan after his loyalty mission when EDI mentions how Urdnot's clan is getting better and expanding

"Ah, intelligent move, surprising from Krogan"

I mean damn, I know in general Krogan are aggressive but is he THAT ignorant? I mean this guy really do believe that the Krogan are literally an inferior race and everytime a Krogan does something that seems intelligent he acts surprised or either tries to deny it.

Whats up with this dude?

[kraidy1117]

"Don't like it, then kick me off the ship."

[rabidhanar]

Mordan is the comic relief character in ME2, I suggest you put him in a different light because of this.



Some funny dialogue he says - sex advice, Singing "I Am the Very Model of a Scientist Salarian", and his ingame taunts "Flamable or Inflamable, forgot which"

[Kroesis-]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Mordin is probably one of the more interesting party members in ME2 but everytime he opens his mouth about Krogan I wish my Shepard could just slap him in the back of the head. Example, this is a paraphrase of what he said about the Krogan after his loyalty mission when EDI mentions how Urdnot's clan is getting better and expanding

"Ah, intelligent move, surprising from Krogan"

I mean damn, I know in general Krogan are aggressive but is he THAT ignorant? I mean this guy really do believe that the Krogan are literally an inferior race and everytime a Krogan does something that seems intelligent he acts surprised or either tries to deny it.

Whats up with this dude?

Avoiding spoilers:

Considering what he was talking about and who was doing it and the manner in which they were going about it, why shouldn't he be surprised?

Modifié par Kroesis-, 04 août 2010 - 12:23 .

[Whatever42]

Krogan are obviously not intellectuals. They themselves even mock the concept of a Krogan scientist.

[rabidhanar]

Also, to go on this note......You humans are all racist!



Sorry I couldn't resist.

[Sphaerus]

Most of Mordin's preconceptions about Krogan and the how and why of what they do are, for the most part, very specific generalisations of what the Krogan have done and, as individuals of a larger society, are generallly prone to doing. Mordin is typed as an extremely analytical individual and his racial preconceptions are, at worst, statistically likelihoods analysed to a vaguely racist degree. Whether or not he's right is for the individual to decide.

[Titanium Man]

I like Mordin's attitude about the krogan. Wrong or not, it gives him color. Makes him even more interesting.

[AntiChri5]

Mordin has spent the majority of his career studying the Krogan.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

Mordin is being rational, just do his loyalty mission and your realize he really wants to help the Krogan but not at the price of the entire galaxy.

[The Mythical Magician]

At least Mordin is funny to listen to, he might have some bad remarks on certain matters but he makes up for it by saying jokes and singing. Ashley though is way worse than him when it comes to racism, she down right hates all the alien races on the Normandy SR1 especially Liara, she wasn't interesting in conversations plus she was highly unattractive so in ME1 I always Virmire'd her. lol

[PWENER]

He said that he has never met a Krogan scientist, and doubts that there has ever been one.



I've met 3!!!!!!!



One in Saren's base in ME1, Okeer and that weapons guy in Tuchanka.

[TomHark]

rabidhanar wrote...

"Flamable or Inflamable, forgot which"

Does he really say that?  You would think someone as smart as Mordin would know that they mean the same thing.

[V-rex]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

At least Mordin is funny to listen to, he might have some bad remarks on certain matters but he makes up for it by saying jokes and singing. Ashley though is way worse than him when it comes to racism, she down right hates all the alien races on the Normandy SR1 especially Liara, she wasn't interesting in conversations plus she was highly unattractive so in ME1 I always Virmire'd her. lol

*sigh*

This again? Really?

Ashley is NOT RACIST. She doesn't hate aliens based on them being a different species, she just doesn't trust them on the basis that her family name is blacklisted because her grandfather was the first human to ever surrender to an alien race, as a result her family has been suffering biased promotions ever since and she has been stuck on groundside assignments her whole life without any experiance working with aliens prior to this, so naturally she is distrustful towards them. Especially given that this current crew makes up a Turian C-sec officer who didn't want to follow the rules, a Quarian vagrant who is of a race famed for being theives and untrustworthy, the daughter of the second in command of the main villain and a Krogan mercenary who is widely considered to be the most dangerous of his kind.
I don't think it is even slighty surprising that she is wary of them.

That said, on Virmire she still happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team and even comfortably works well with them showing a great deal of respect for them in the process. She also has quite a few friendly conversations with Tali in elevators saying that she hopes that having Tali help them out against Saren will help change people's views on the Quarians for the better. She also despises Terra Firma believing that they have replaced their former noble goals with xenophobic anti alien propaganda and she openly refuses to ever consider working with Cerberus.
She also says that she doesn'ty think humanity should turn down allies just not rely on them staying allies, she also doesn't think humanity should mistreat aliens and she herself says that she doesn't believe humanity is 'superior'.

Plus her views on aliens can actually be turned around if given the right conversation options and she can grow to trust aliens quite a lot to the point where she is proud to be fighting alongside aliens and heavily trusting of the Council.

So yes, I can't fault you for not finding her interesting or finding her unnattractive (I would disagree with you on both points though) as that is entirely your opinion and as such it is entirely subjective.

But still if she really is the crazy awful racist that people say she is then so is Tali, who spends her entire time showing resentment towards the Council for the way her people get treated and for being unable to accept that she can't blame the geth for trying to defend themselves. Yet I hear no complaint about that, even though it is just as valid (or invalid) as lashing out at Ashley.
How about Wrex? He out right despises Turians and Salarians out of principle and angrily slurs at Garrus every chance he gets, why is that never called into question? He also subtely insults Tali at one point who then subtely insults him in return during an elevator conversation where they essentially mock each other for the state both races find themselves in.
Or Garrus, who always assumed the genophage was 'acceptable' and is surprised to see Wrex isn't a blood crazed psychotic, hence demeaning his entire people and being very ignorant of that fact.
Even Kaidan can be influenced to hating aliens to the point of actually referring to them as 'alien bastards' who are 'about to see what humanity can do'.

Then of course there's Mordin who actively defends his position about causing the, possible, extinction of the Krogan and just talking about it like it is no big deal.

My point is, Ashley isn't racist and even if she was, by those standards so is everyone else and yet why does she end up as the only one getting hated? Honestly, from where I stand she's nowhere near as bad as people make her out to be.

/rant.

Okay, topic time:

I too felt a sting of annoyance by some of Mordin's lines but much like with Ashley in Mass Effect 1 I was still intrigued enough that I persisted conversation anyway and especially after the loyalty mission and seeing Mordin stare in horror at the dead Krogan female under the sheet I realised that Mordin didn't hate Krogans, he just had spent his entire life only thinking about the science and statistics and never really considered the moral part of what he was doing and once he realised what he had done there was a chance to get him to redeem himself.

I was actually kind of moved when I saw him nearly cry seeing that body there because it  made me realise that he did still actually have a concience of some kind and that he did feel bad about what he had done, he just tried not to show it.

Similar to how you can get Ashley to change her views on aliens around you can get Mordin to think differently too and even a chance of him making a cure for the Krogan.

[Itkovian]

Mordin has a lot of depth as a character, most (if not all) ME2 NPCs do, that's part of what makes ME2 such a great game.

What this also implies, is that nobody is perfect. Mordin has a clear bias against Krogan, which itself is likely just rationalization for what he's done. His loyalty mission is quite revealing, in fact.

And I completely agree with V-rex concerning Ashley and the bad rep she gets because of a few lines that are focused on while ignoring a plethora of other lines and actions that contradict the idea she's racist (or god forbid, a human supremacist). It's classic confirmation bias, really. But yes, she has issues with aliens, and that makes her a flawed character... which is exactly what what believable NPCs need to be.

Itkovian

[Lord Zeuss]

V-rex wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

At least Mordin is funny to listen to, he might have some bad remarks on certain matters but he makes up for it by saying jokes and singing. Ashley though is way worse than him when it comes to racism, she down right hates all the alien races on the Normandy SR1 especially Liara, she wasn't interesting in conversations plus she was highly unattractive so in ME1 I always Virmire'd her. lol

*sigh*

This again? Really?

Ashley is NOT RACIST. She doesn't hate aliens based on them being a different species, she just doesn't trust them on the basis that her family name is blacklisted because her grandfather was the first human to ever surrender to an alien race, as a result her family has been suffering biased promotions ever since and she has been stuck on groundside assignments her whole life without any experiance working with aliens prior to this, so naturally she is distrustful towards them. Especially given that this current crew makes up a Turian C-sec officer who didn't want to follow the rules, a Quarian vagrant who is of a race famed for being theives and untrustworthy, the daughter of the second in command of the main villain and a Krogan mercenary who is widely considered to be the most dangerous of his kind.
I don't think it is even slighty surprising that she is wary of them.

That said, on Virmire she still happily volunteers to assist the Salarian team and even comfortably works well with them showing a great deal of respect for them in the process. She also has quite a few friendly conversations with Tali in elevators saying that she hopes that having Tali help them out against Saren will help change people's views on the Quarians for the better. She also despises Terra Firma believing that they have replaced their former noble goals with xenophobic anti alien propaganda and she openly refuses to ever consider working with Cerberus.
She also says that she doesn'ty think humanity should turn down allies just not rely on them staying allies, she also doesn't think humanity should mistreat aliens and she herself says that she doesn't believe humanity is 'superior'.

Plus her views on aliens can actually be turned around if given the right conversation options and she can grow to trust aliens quite a lot to the point where she is proud to be fighting alongside aliens and heavily trusting of the Council.

So yes, I can't fault you for not finding her interesting or finding her unnattractive (I would disagree with you on both points though) as that is entirely your opinion and as such it is entirely subjective.

But still if she really is the crazy awful racist that people say she is then so is Tali, who spends her entire time showing resentment towards the Council for the way her people get treated and for being unable to accept that she can't blame the geth for trying to defend themselves. Yet I hear no complaint about that, even though it is just as valid (or invalid) as lashing out at Ashley.
How about Wrex? He out right despises Turians and Salarians out of principle and angrily slurs at Garrus every chance he gets, why is that never called into question? He also subtely insults Tali at one point who then subtely insults him in return during an elevator conversation where they essentially mock each other for the state both races find themselves in.
Or Garrus, who always assumed the genophage was 'acceptable' and is surprised to see Wrex isn't a blood crazed psychotic, hence demeaning his entire people and being very ignorant of that fact.
Even Kaidan can be influenced to hating aliens to the point of actually referring to them as 'alien bastards' who are 'about to see what humanity can do'.

Then of course there's Mordin who actively defends his position about causing the, possible, extinction of the Krogan and just talking about it like it is no big deal.

My point is, Ashley isn't racist and even if she was, by those standards so is everyone else and yet why does she end up as the only one getting hated? Honestly, from where I stand she's nowhere near as bad as people make her out to be.

/rant.

Okay, topic time:

I too felt a sting of annoyance by some of Mordin's lines but much like with Ashley in Mass Effect 1 I was still intrigued enough that I persisted conversation anyway and especially after the loyalty mission and seeing Mordin stare in horror at the dead Krogan female under the sheet I realised that Mordin didn't hate Krogans, he just had spent his entire life only thinking about the science and statistics and never really considered the moral part of what he was doing and once he realised what he had done there was a chance to get him to redeem himself.

I was actually kind of moved when I saw him nearly cry seeing that body there because it  made me realise that he did still actually have a concience of some kind and that he did feel bad about what he had done, he just tried not to show it.

Similar to how you can get Ashley to change her views on aliens around you can get Mordin to think differently too and even a chance of him making a cure for the Krogan.

V-rex speaks the truth.

[Kid_SixXx]

If it weren't for the genophage, Earth might be a Krogan colony by now and humans would be a source of yummy protein found in canned Varren food.



Seriosly, why is there so much "Awwww, poor Krogan" everywhere these days?

[PsyrenY]

TomHark wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...

"Flamable or Inflamable, forgot which"

Does he really say that?  You would think someone as smart as Mordin would know that they mean the same thing.

Partial quotes FTL.

Mordin's full line is: "Flammable! Or inflammable. Forget which. Doesn't matter!" In other words, he is aware that there is no difference.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Mordin is not being racist its all in your perspective if you want to twist his words around to reinforce that view then you can if you don't its not there he is stating a fact its not pretty but for the most part Krogan themselves even scoff at the idea of smart Krogan Okeer was an example of what the Krogan do not see themselves as a whole being he was an exception not the rule.



Mordin has studied them his views are coming from a cold science type of view a generalization between a rare few and several thousand hes seen so when he says intelligent move is surprising for a Krogan he's saying out of 100 he's witnessed they're reckless you think before you act which is good and a rare trait if anything he is complementing not insulting or being racist if he truly was racist he'd find that female Krogan in the hospital and say good riddance instead he is very upset and emotional over her death not the actions of a racist.

[Siansonea]

Mordin's not racist. Krogan suck.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Siansonea II wrote...

Mordin's not racist. Krogan suck.

It's a fact that Wrex is awesome.

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 04 août 2010 - 08:37 .

[brfritos]

Siansonea II wrote...

Mordin's not racist. Krogan suck.

Grunt: Asari are stupid.

Kid_SixXx wrote...

If it weren't for the genophage, Earth might be a Krogan colony by now and humans would be a source of yummy protein found in canned Varren food.

Seriosly, why is there so much "Awwww, poor Krogan" everywhere these days?

I think the problem is not "Awwww, poor Krogan", but "the Salarians caused a lot of trouble and left the Krogan to be blame".

Modifié par brfritos, 04 août 2010 - 10:11 .

[Hatem]

Well, at least he never ran tests on species with members capable of calculus. Simple rule, never broke it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Wrex's clan leadership is that of a reformer, he himself says they are breaking many traditions. Hence even the Krogan themselves acknowledge they are acting differently from the way Krogan often have. And this was one such occasion, compared to the way that most Krogan would have acted in modern era, it was unexpected to an outsider, such as Mordin.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 05 août 2010 - 08:00 .