105 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheese Elemental]

I was never a fan of JRPGs. My idea of fun isn't playing as an effeminate young man with ridiculous hair amongst more effeminate young men along with women that look like they just got out of high school.

[Wicked 702]

Your stereotype is fail. That is all.

[MerinTB]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...
I was never a fan of JRPGs. My idea of fun isn't playing as an effeminate young man with ridiculous hair amongst more effeminate young men along with women that look like they just got out of high school.

That stereotype is true for most every JRPG.   You can argue weather or not a game deserves to fall into that stereotype,  but the direction the JRPG industry has been going I would say they have been just asking for that stereotype. 

Ok, let's try this stereotype out here and see what results we get -
I went off a list of JRPGs that came out the last couple years and I'll put up some posts of characters from the games and show, visually, what they look like:

1st - FF XIII
This should be easy, it was an easy target, right?  There's technically no MC, though Lightning/Claire is close:


Now she's clearly female or you need your gender-detector re-tuned. And if you went to high school with girls like that, I envy you.
There are two other characters who could be considered "main" IMO - Snow, the male lead:

and Vanille, who narrates the game and is part of the party:


If you think Snow was effeminate (or androgynous, that might the term all of you are really looking for) I'd hate to see the kind of women you are dating.
Vanille is clearly a girl. Clearly. But I will grant that she looks (and sounds) like she's in high school.

My opinion: The stereotype fails. FFXIII has a party of 6, including a black man with trench coat and afro, a male kid (here's your "whiny" character to fit your stereotype, so 2 out of 6), and a tough pseudo-Gaelic woman.

[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:YfIPl2V4XjdUKM:http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk175/Savers/FFXIIIcrtart.png&t=1[/img]
more in future posts ...

[MerinTB]

Next:  White Knight Chronicles

Now, not having played this I'll be stuck with online descriptions of the game and images to work with.  Your MC is a young man (17) and I have no clue if he's whiny or not, though from the game description I would assume there isn't much of that (I could be wrong.)


Leonard -


Hair looks fairly normal to me.  Oh, and see that armor behind him?



Yeah, at least part of the time, that's what you look like in combat.

There's a princess rescued to the storyline, and you have a party you control - again, having not played it, I'll rely on images:




In my opinion, this looks like a fun game. The characters are a bit more in the Japanese animation style, true, but I don't think this looks that much different than DA2 in character appearance, honestly, and if 17 is a problem then how do you get past Mission Vao, Imoen, or Grunt (who's very emo, he just rapidly goes through puberty and his teenage years in a gruff voice.)
Without having played it I can't judge on the whining level of Leonard, but he doesn't look effeminate (nor androgynous) to me, and he seems to be running around with guys who look like adults and such...

[MerinTB]

One more - most of the stuff I found listed were ports of older games - but if you are interested, you go and see if Y's, Super Mario RPG or Xenogears fit your stereotypes (and realize they are all fairly old games at that.)

Valkyria Chronicles

Also haven't played this (see, I don't own the Japanese console, the Sony PS systems, so I don't get to play these really) but it looks interesting - a tactical RPG is right up my alley, anyway.



According to what I've read, your MC is Welkin -


Yes, that's from the anime but a quick search wasn't finding a good image from the game.
He's 22 and a Lt. I don't think he qualifies as some whiny, effeminate, high school kid.

Then there's his opposite on the team, Alicia -

19, an NCO. She looks a bit old to be a high school girl to me, but whatever.

Some others in the game are Welkin's kid sister, Isara -


who, yes, is 16. There's your high-school girl.

And Largo -

a 36 year old Sgt.

In my opinion, this has some of the elements being lamented (there is a high school age girl, Rosie's hair-style is a bit silly) but is far from the "stereotype" that is being denounced.

That's three of the bigger most recent JRPGs I could find from the last couple years that weren't:
1 - ports/remakes
2 - for the DS

In conclusion, I'm sure that the stereotype comes from somewhere (if you focus on anime, not JRPGs, or if you narrow in on Hope as somehow the main character out of an ensemble cast of 6 in FFXIII), but I think that it is completely inaccurate to try and say all JRPGs are like that or that they are moving MORE towards it.

That's my opinion and the little research I did. I know it won't change any hardened opinions, but maybe those who were just absorbing what others were saying will think twice before drawing their own conclusions.

[WARDEN9652]

or you could just say lost odyssey, where the main character is around 30, has normal hair except it is slightly long for a male, and hes definitely not effeminate, he just cant remember things lol

[joriandrake]

ah VC, I never played the games but I love the anime, too bad Isara dies, she was my second fav character in it

[joriandrake]

Tirannos Rex wrote...

I've actually never played a "JRPG." They look so colourful and bright, almost eye searing.

hm, in my opinion most of them have no different color palettes than any western ones

[Loerwyn]

WRPGs tend to be darker/paler shades of brown, brown, grey, brown and sometimes green.

[MerinTB]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

WRPGs tend to be darker/paler shades of brown, brown, grey, brown and sometimes green.

DA and Bethesda games (Fallout 3, Elder Scrolls), sure...

but how about these  for colorful -


















Again, just going at random through cRPG's of the last few years, skipping over the obvious ME, DA, Fallout 3, the Witcher.

[Loerwyn]

It was a slightly tongue-in-cheek joke, Merin. The current trend in Western games seems to be browns, greys and blacks. For every game that goes against it, there's one that goes with it.

[MerinTB]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

It was a slightly tongue-in-cheek joke, Merin. The current trend in Western games seems to be browns, greys and blacks. For every game that goes against it, there's one that goes with it.

I dunno - if you remove Bethesda from the mix...

where are the really drab tones in a game?  Dragon Age, maybe.

I think it's a stereotype built on people who've played Morrowind a lot and tried Fallout 3.  I can't speak for the Witcher, but let me check some google images...

[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:rM0m5F1L3ekLiM:http://www.igniq.com/images2/witcher0207.jpg&t=1[/img]
[img]http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/708/708621/the-witcher-20060513023529468.jpg[/img]
[img]http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/07/witchere306.jpg[/img]

Ok, yeah, that is pretty drab.

You say it's like one for one, which I know you aren't putting forth as an exact - but honestly, I listed quite a few - the drab games are Morrowind, Fallout 3, and the Witcher.  Maybe Dragon Age: Origins.  What else is there?  Because I can find plenty more colorful ones.

[Loerwyn]

I'm talking about Western games in general, not just RPGs.

Gears of War, Far Cry 2, Modern Borefare 2, DiRT, GRID - Naught but washed out tones.

[MerinTB]

Here's some more western cRPGs from the last few years -


Space Rangers 2 (looks RTS, but it's multi-genre)


Neverwinter Nights 2


Fate: Undiscovered Realms


Drakensang: The Dark Eye


Legend: Hand of God

I'm not being nitpicky here - but just like the "all JPRGs have androgynous emo boys as the lead with high school ditzy girls as allies" I think the "all western RPGs are moving to drab colors" meme is really exagerating what isn't even a trend.
If you remove the "set in drab wastelands" like Morrowind and the Fallout series, which are setting specific, you have be selective of locations for other games to find this bleh coloring.

[MerinTB]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

I'm talking about Western games in general, not just RPGs.
Gears of War, Far Cry 2, Modern Borefare 2, DiRT, GRID - Naught but washed out tones.

I'll agree that it is kind of a thing for some games looking for that "gritty" feel -

but it is a small minority of games.

Far Cry was super colorful.  Far Cry 2 is toned down (not being on a tropical island I think is the thing) but still, this isn't too drab -



I'll stop "arguing" with you about this, though. I agree there is an increase in this look.

[Loerwyn]

Not one for jokes, are you Merin? I've already stated it was a tongue-in-cheek joke, there's no need to go on a tirade about how I'm wrong. I've played plenty of recent games with colour (Mirror's Edge, Boringlands, Sacred 2, Divinity 2, Drakensang, King's Bounty: Armored Princess, just to name a few).

P.S. If we're being pedantic, it's "The Dark Eye: Drakensang", as The Dark Eye is the ruleset, not the subtitle. It'd be like saying "Neverwinter Nights: Dungeons & Dragons" or something.

[Ghost Lightning]

Edit: Using one asterisk to "censor" a word is really pushing it. Do not do that again. Thank you.

Modifié par Seagloom, 06 août 2010 - 10:03 .

[smecky-kitteh]

lightning is cool. her, vanille and sahz are my favorites. I hate stereotypes because you can fit pretty much any character into one.

[MerinTB]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...
P.S. If we're being pedantic, it's "The Dark Eye: Drakensang", as The Dark Eye is the ruleset, not the subtitle. It'd be like saying "Neverwinter Nights: Dungeons & Dragons" or something.

It may well be the correct title - I was pulling information from a list of cRPGs at Wikipedia - it was listed as such... and many places also list the game as Drakensang: The Dark Eye, lik IGN and Direct2Drive.

http://en.wikipedia....s:_2000_to_2009

http://en.wikipedia....g:_The_Dark_Eye

http://pc.ign.com/ob...824/824850.html

http://www.direct2dr...rk-Eye-Download

So my apologies - my sources were apparently wrong on the title.  I stand corrected on the exact order of the wording.  Now someone should go correct Direct2Drive as people will clearly think it must be a different game.

As for NWN: D&D - you are saying you don't think games are ever titled that way?

What about Scourge of Worlds: A Dungeons and Dragons Adventure?
Or Alien Logic: A Skyrealms of Jorune Adventure?
Or Nemesis: A Wizardry Adventure

It's not typical, but sometimes games do list the system they are based on in the title and after the main title of the game itself.

[MerinTB]

Captain Cornhole wrote...
MerinTB, I think your taking this a little to personally.  Sure, not every person is in game is going to be "effeminate" like snow.  But even your standard NPCs and party members like said mentioned tough pseudo-Gaelic woman or afro black dude fit into the stereotype.

Nah, I'm not taking it personally.  I'm having fun.  I also like making people question their prejudices if I can.

I'm not really taking sides, if you've followed.  I've defended both "sides" of this stupid and pointless argument about "which RPGs suck" - I like doing research and I like debating.  I've not called anyone names nor gotten angry at a single person.

Don't read anger into what I'm doing.  If anything, read slightly smarmy bemusement. :innocent: