23 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

This article on Kotaku is awesome, and the unintended narrative side-effect is one of those things that I love:
http://kotaku.com/56...e-power-of-mods

[Eudaemonium]

That article is amazing. Eudaemonium approves +56.

EDIT: To extend my comments a bit.

This exhibits what in my opinion is one of the most brilliant, subversive and rewarding aspects of this style of gaming fan culture (mods, fanfics, etcetera): the ability to take a narrative, read it in a different and not necessarily intended way and then make that reading a virtual reality within the game world. Plus, well, I love it when game plot analysis turns political.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 04 août 2010 - 09:57 .

[FiliusMartis]

Honestly, I found it a bit ridiculous. There is already a political narrative going on, particularly about class and race, and it's fine that way. Gay men aren't the only ones who can't have children. Alistair (or any man for that matter) might be infertile, regardless of who his partner is. I also know for a fact that Alistair's mother's locket unlocks a cutscene, so I'm not sure I believe that bit of his story. But whatever makes people happy I guess.

[Gilsa]

I thought it was a good read.

[mousestalker]

It changes things only if you're prone to reading a particular political slant into everything.

[Charsen]

hilariously i had a bug where i somehow developed a romance with alistair, without realizing it, without sexing him up, and then he told me it could never be at the landsmeet out of the blue. no idea wtf happened since i wasn't even using many mods back then. something got corrupted, somehow... lolalistair, no.



i actually did not romance zevran until very close to the landsmeet because somehow i thought his hints at being bisexual were just going to be a trick. i am so used to my chaste heroes now that i don't trust the mirages. kind of sad. =P



good article though.

[EnchantedEyes1]

Interesting perspective, I liked it.

[Sarah1281]

I'm not sure how Dragon Age is supposed to be the first commercial game about gay marriage when you have to mod the game to get that option with Alistair. I mean, you could consider Zevran's proposal if you're a guy to be about gay marriage but changing something big in the game like an ability to romance Alistair at all? The game isn't about anything modded if the mod goes beyond restoring content already there.



And he overlooked the rather obvious 'don't make Alistair King but still kill Loghain' option.

[Bryy_Miller]

mousestalker wrote...

It changes things only if you're prone to reading a particular political slant into everything.

*sigh*
Do people honestly believe that everything has to be tied back to your political beliefs?

[Addai]

Interesting article. I agree that the mods can expand your view of gameplay- that's what the Dalish mage mod did for my last playthrough.

[mousestalker]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

It changes things only if you're prone to reading a particular political slant into everything.

*sigh*
Do people honestly believe that everything has to be tied back to your political beliefs?

That was my point. Sometimes a game is just a game.

[Monglor]

I thought it was a really interesting article. Not really much more to say about it than that. Dragon Age is a masterpiece, like all great art it affects people. That's something to celebrate about it, even if some of the political connotations people like to attach might cause some eyerolling.

[Saibh]

I'm not entirely sure...about the point of the article. It was already mentioned that you must read it with a political slant, but I can't help but feel that this was the wrong game to pick. You had to mod that romance in there. It has nothing to do with gay marriage.



If you want to put political agenda into everything you see (no, mod political agenda in), I guess it is a good read. I just think that this is maybe the wrong game to pick for that agenda. I think I'm perhaps just not "getting" it.



Also, the whole political slant sort of fails, since you don't need to make Alistair king. I wonder if he deliberately didn't bring that up.

[Sarah1281]

Also, the whole political slant sort of fails, since you don't need to make Alistair king. I wonder if he deliberately didn't bring that up.

He said that the only other option was exiling/killing him if you spared Loghain so I guess the 'let Alistair stay a Warden' option never came up for him. Maybe his Alistair always claims the throne after killing Loghain?

[CalJones]

Well, he should have picked Zevran - he could have had a happy ending.
And Sarah, yes, that does happen. That's how my Dalish got screwed over - she let Alistair do the deed, since he was the one who wanted Loghain dead, and he promptly made himself king and dumped her. (She was intending that he stay in the Wardens, and he'd agreed with her up to that point. Grrr).

Modifié par CalJones, 09 août 2010 - 07:02 .

[Sarah1281]

I've heard that it happens but the one time I tried to trigger it with a non-HNF in a romance with him, he wouldn't take the throne. I reloaded, dumped him, did the same thing and he did.

[Saibh]

CalJones wrote...

Well, he should have picked Zevran - he could have had a happy ending.
And Sarah, yes, that does happen. That's how my Dalish got screwed over - she let Alistair do the deed, since he was the one who wanted Loghain dead, and he promptly made himself king and dumped her. (She was intending that he stay in the Wardens, and he'd agreed with her up to that point. Grrr).

It has to do with whether or not you mention letting Loghain live--if you do, Alistair steps up to take the throne so he can kill Loghain. If you accept this, he immediately becomes king. So long as you don't even suggets letting Loghain live, Alistair may kill him and still not take the throne.

[Bryy_Miller]

mousestalker wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

It changes things only if you're prone to reading a particular political slant into everything.

*sigh*
Do people honestly believe that everything has to be tied back to your political beliefs?

That was my point. Sometimes a game is just a game.

But.... that wasn't what the article was about. You're assuming that in order for it to be a homosexual romance, you need to be pro-homosexuality, and be in that mindset already. You do not need to be pro-choice to see the anti-abortion imagery in things.

[Sarah1281]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

It changes things only if you're prone to reading a particular political slant into everything.

*sigh*
Do people honestly believe that everything has to be tied back to your political beliefs?

That was my point. Sometimes a game is just a game.

But.... that wasn't what the article was about. You're assuming that in order for it to be a homosexual romance, you need to be pro-homosexuality, and be in that mindset already. You do not need to be pro-choice to see the anti-abortion imagery in things.

But there wasn't a homosexual romance with Alistair that brings up all the issues the article mentioned in the game. It had to be modded in. That's like saying "Oh, this book is really pro-choice. I can tell because I wrote 'women should have the right to choose' on every page.'

[Bryy_Miller]

The idea that "a game is just a game" is quite lame. That's like watching a TV show and going "who cares if it's bringing up social issues relevant to today's society? It's entertainment". Just because you don't want to see it does not mean that it is not there. Modded or no.

[Sarah1281]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

The idea that "a game is just a game" is quite lame. That's like watching a TV show and going "who cares if it's bringing up social issues relevant to today's society? It's entertainment". Just because you don't want to see it does not mean that it is not there. Modded or no.

I didn't say 'a game is just a game.' Dragon Age does not bring up any social issues concerning homosexuality with the Alistair romance.

The Leliana or Zevran romances can address homosexual issues since you can do one non-modded.

Since the game is modded, saying that something that only exists with the help of a mod means that the game itself brings it up is like someone saying 'Oh, this TV show brings up a social issue relevant to today's society in a fanfic I wrote about it which isn't even remotely covered in the actual show! This show's so edgy.'

[Bryy_Miller]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

The idea that "a game is just a game" is quite lame. That's like watching a TV show and going "who cares if it's bringing up social issues relevant to today's society? It's entertainment". Just because you don't want to see it does not mean that it is not there. Modded or no.

I didn't say 'a game is just a game.'

I know you didn't, but you were responding to my response to someone else. I was clarifying.

Dragon Age does not bring up any social issues concerning homosexuality with the Alistair romance.

I think you need to read the title of this thread again. Context is key. This entire discussion spawned out of one person disregarding the "Modded" in the title. It is not my intention to say that there can be a gay romance with Alistair in the unmodded game. 

[TJPags]

Dragon Age is the world's first commercial video game about gay marriage

Not, it's not.  It's about saving the world from a bunch of evil creatures who want to destroy everything.  You just happen to be able to actually interact with the NPC's more then just "give me 55 healing potions" or "Use fireball!!!"

So I tricked Dragon Age: Origins into temporarily thinking my dude mage was female to trigger a gay romance with the dashing knight Alistair (and for anyone wanting to do the same, it works pretty seamlessly, just get the mod at Dragon Age Nexus) — and the result was an oddly tragic playthrough with inadvertent commentary on gay marriage. (Inadvertent because I had to use a mod to get this reading of it.)

That's sort of like rewriting the Bible so that it says gay marriage is fine, and pointing it out as proof that gay marriage is fine.  You changed the game to make it be what you wanted it to be, and you want to say the GAME is that way?  No, you're altered version is.

mean, Dragon Age has plenty of other gay **** in it: lesbian dwarves, a threesome, two bisexual romance options, etc. And this is all the intentionally designed LGBT content that BioWare saw fit to implement, which isn't a complaint because this is probably as "progressive" a major commercial Western RPG has ever been. So kudos, BioWare.

Yup, it does, and it's pretty damn progressive in that regard.

But none of that "intentional" gay content compares to how rewarding I found Dragon Age when I hijacked Alistair's sexuality.

Again, glad you found the alteration you created rewarding.  That's why people alter games - so they reflect what they want better then the generic version.

Interesting article, for different reasons - none of which are because Bioware created a game that explores gay marriage, though.