887 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Jaysonie wrote...

@ Spectre 117
I just dont like how Tonnactus and Darth Drago are insinuating that Mass Effect 2 is selling poorly.

Poorly is the wrong word. 1,7 million sold copies(Ea financial report) is still a sucess. I just guess that the sucess is not
nearly as huge as they wished to get with the streamlining of the game.

[bjdbwea]

Didn't they just recently say they're aiming for 10 million sales with their games? Well, that's going to take a whole lot more dumbing down and/or shooterizing, unfortunately.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 07 août 2010 - 10:18 .

[Gorn Kregore]

Darth Drago wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


But this is what it comes down to. Bioware knows what their real sales numbers are .

When they are so confident about their product,why they released a demo months after the main game was released?
How many bioware games had this?

Don’t forget the price drop for the game as well.

It does seem like half ass backward thinking.

-Shouldn’t you release a demo before the game comes out or at its release instead of 6 months AFTER its been out?

-It seems a bit odd (to me at least) that a game that just came out is already dropped in price this soon. I’ve seen games that have had the same price they had when it was released for over a year. I see Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is still listed at $59.99 on the Best Buy web site and that came out in November. (I had to do a search for recent games since I don’t buy them that often anymore. Not even sure what has been released in January)

Must be due to slow sales with a large overstock supply of the game…

This was the same case with Mass Effect 1 however.

The thing about Mass Effect 2 people (or most people I tend to hang out with) think the game is like Mass Effect 1 (which the majority believe it or not disliked), a friend for example went to me and I remember him saying "heh mass effect is really bad." Once he played Mass Effect 2 his eyes opened up in surprise and he loved the game in the end. It's not due to it being not directed to the RPG nerds, it's due to the majority of gamers being ignorant about the game.

Modifié par Gorn Kregore, 07 août 2010 - 10:21 .

[tonnactus]

Jaysonie wrote...

Youve been on this forum for months and have done nothing but criticize ME2. 

Yes,why not. A lot of the people who now praise the sequel whined about mako,elevators and the "clunky combat"
of the first game.

[Gorn Kregore]

tonnactus wrote...

Jaysonie wrote...

Youve been on this forum for months and have done nothing but criticize ME2. 

Yes,why not. A lot of the people who now praise the sequel whined about mako,elevators and the "clunky combat"
of the first game.

Huh? The combat wasn't clunky? In Mass Effect 1? You must be joking. Or simply delusional. The combat in Mass Effect 1 was a terrible attempt at making the game a "RPG" when once again it was trying hard to be a shooter and please don't deny it, it sucked hard.

inb4 "heh im the best im hardcore rpger ur just lowly shooter fanboy xD bow down 2 me lOL"

Modifié par Gorn Kregore, 07 août 2010 - 10:23 .

[tonnactus]

bjdbwea wrote...

Didn't they just recently say they're aiming for 10 million sales with their games? Well, that's going to take a whole lot more dumbing down and/or shooterizing, unfortunately.

Yes,thats right:


A recent interview has revealed the big plans
BioWare has for its upcoming releases. Dr. Greg Zeschuk, the studio's
co-founder, has declared that the next games they come out from BioWare
are aimed to sell around ten million units. While Mass Effect 2 and
Dragon Age: Origins have been quite big hits for BioWare, they do not
come close in terms of sales to titles like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
2 or World of Warcraft.

http://news.softpedi...ts-149702.shtml

[tonnactus]

Gorn Kregore wrote...
The combat in Mass Effect 1 was a terrible attempt at making the game a "RPG" when once again it was trying hard to be a shooter and please don't deny it, it sucked hard.

I deny it.
I had far more fun playing an adept or a engineer in the first game then now where i just spam the drone or singularity
most of the time.(thats the case in difficulties that offered at least a bit challenge)

I understand that people who played as the soldier in the first game like the class in the second game more,but thats it.

The vanguard has charge now,what is really great,but becomes "old" very fast if its the only thing i used most of the time. The sentinel is so boring that i stopped playing it before i was even near to complete the game.



If this is clunky combat,then i seem to like it...

And im sure better option exist to balance biotics then just the "protection system".

Modifié par tonnactus, 07 août 2010 - 10:46 .

[Iakus]

Throw_this_away wrote...

I think ME1/2's mix of RPG/action is the perfect blend of the best of the two genres.  For me, that resulted in a VERY addictive, enjoyable, and replayable game.  

I just don't have the attention span for action games without deep characters/story, or RPG's that feel "empty" and lifeless even if the world is vast and open.

In the end... I think the ME series is what it is because the characters seem so real.  Between voice acting, graphics, gestures, and movie like camera work... I just find myself beleaving the ME world more than other games.  To me that is immersion.  That is more RPG than any RPG I have played.  

I agree that a game needs to have a deep story and intersting characters, otherwise regardless of gameplay or action, you get a boring game.  That's what keeps me coming back to the Bioware well more than Bethesda. 

The problem for me is that ME 2 simply didn't have that.  The ingredients were there:  interesting characters, cool new villains, a mystery to solve, and a previous game to build on.  But none of it was really taken advantage of.  Smooth gameplay, updated graphics, cool.  Sleek, polished, and ultimately empty.

[Throw_this_away]

Some people will always be hard to please.



But I respect that no game is for everyone.

[Iakus]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Some people will always be hard to please.

But I respect that no game is for everyone.

True enough.  However, I have enjoyed every single Bioware game up to this point.  Every.  Single.  One.  Even the Awakening expansion for DAO.  I also enjoyed, Fallout 2 and Fallout 3.  The only rpg I haven't been able to finsih recently was Oblivion (and I've tried more than once)  I figured I was easy to please.  Yet I found ME 2 was such a terrible story, such a pointless exercise in missed opportunities,  such an unworthy sequel to ME 1, that I came to the forums.  I've never done that before.  Not for a Bioware game, not for any other game.

If Bioware wants to make a shooter with a story, fine.  If Bioware wants to make a series of rpg/shooter hybrids, cool, But for crying out loud, make it a real sequel or don't bother making it a sequel.  Don't summarilly kill off the protagonist and bring him back to life just to seperate said character from his or her support structure.  It's cheap, contrived, and uncreative.  Don't give characters brain damage to make them act they way they must to advance the plot.  If your going to introduce a new villain, make them the new villain.  Don't subcontract it out to merc groups!  If you open with a mystery, let us have some fun solving it, rather than doing it for us in the first mission.

And for the love of the Enkindlers, don't claim there's exploration in this game when there is none!  It's just corridors, corridors, and more corridors!

That was oddly cathartic.

[fantasypisces]

tonnactus wrote...

Gorn Kregore wrote...
The combat in Mass Effect 1 was a terrible attempt at making the game a "RPG" when once again it was trying hard to be a shooter and please don't deny it, it sucked hard.

I deny it.
I had far more fun playing an adept or a engineer in the first game then now where i just spam the drone or singularity
most of the time.(thats the case in difficulties that offered at least a bit challenge)

I understand that people who played as the soldier in the first game like the class in the second game more,but thats it.

The vanguard has charge now,what is really great,but becomes "old" very fast if its the only thing i used most of the time. The sentinel is so boring that i stopped playing it before i was even near to complete the game.



If this is clunky combat,then i seem to like it...

And im sure better option exist to balance biotics then just the "protection system".

Sentinel boring? I find it one of the most micro-managing classes in the game. Compared to soldier which is just pull the trigger, vanguard which is just charge, Engineer which is just drone and incinerate, or infiltrator which is snipe, cloak, smg when something is close?

Although adept requires a lot of micro now as well, but that class always has.

[MassEffect762]

iakus wrote...
.

And for the love of the Enkindlers, don't claim there's exploration in this game when there is none!  It's just corridors, corridors, and more corridors!

While playing ME1 earlier today I kept thinking what the HH would be like on all the planets we get to land on in ME1.

I think it could work, wonder why it never occured to them.

I noticed all the little differences between the two games.(kept trying to reload. lol.)

I liked ME1 appearance more for some reason, looked more cinematic I think.

[Lumikki]

Jaysonie wrote...

Youve been on this forum for months and have done nothing but criticize ME2.  It seems more than likely that you wont be getting ME3 so it just seems like a good idea to find something else to play and stop waisting your breath here.

IMO of course.

There are few people here in this forum who does notthing else than whine every detail of ME2. They do it every day. It doesn't even matter what they say is it true or not, as long they can whine about it or they self think it's true. Basicly sayed, they have totally lost perspective as what's good feedback and what's whining. I ques we could list top 10 whiners, but I don't think it's allowed in this forum. They don't understand differences between feedback about the game and personal dispointment based they own taste of games.

If you really want list feedback what most of people here agree, it's very short list. I would say it's little like this.

ME2's main story was weak, because it was too much about squad member related. Also stories had too many plot holes. Customation was too limited and general, like squad members armors and weapons. In simple way sayed, ME2 was too simplifyed and polish. Now there is also alot of other stuff what has come out here, but we don't seem to agree with them. Examples:

Inventory, amount of combat vs non combat content, traditional RPG, interaction between npcs, vechiles,  exploration, linearity and so on... Mostly because many of these are based personal desire and taste of games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 août 2010 - 06:30 .

[JKoopman]

Throw_this_away wrote...

"We had an overwhelmingly positive response to this approach, and while we'll make further adjustments to it for Mass Effect 3, we're really happy with how it's been received so far."

Did Casey black out and miss the 3-4 months of solid complaining that followed ME2's launch?

[Terror_K]

The problem is that a lot of gave our feedback months ago, shortly after the game first came out and we'd finished it once or twice. We pointed out what was wrong then and why, and some of us even gave solutions to the problem(s) or alternate ways of doing it or just suggestions for adding a bit more depth. We've done that already.



The reason we keep complaining even now is because of those who keep popping into these topics and saying we're wrong repeatedly, making us have to regurgitate and repeat the same issues over and over and explain why we feel this way. If people who are fine with ME2 just left us well enough alone and didn't keep asking for us to explain ourselves repeatedly then we wouldn't keep complaining. But as long as there are people countering everything we say, we'll continue to defend our points.



Then again, some of the discontented have simply said their two cents and moved on. Some may have just decided to turn their back on ME2 all together rather than try and argue points thinking that BioWare might just listen to them and not think their game is God's gift to gamers like they seem to (funny how BioWare acknowledge ME1's flaws fine, but not ME2's. Seems it's only when critics complain about the same things that the "fans get listened to" by the looks of it). And looking at BioWare general lack of communication here beyond announcements and shutting down topics, as well as their high-and-mighty attitude that ME2 was practically perfect in every way, it's hard not to blame those who simply decided to say their bit and go rather than continue to try and make a better Mass Effect 3.

[CatatonicMan]

JKoopman wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

"We had an overwhelmingly positive response to this approach, and while we'll make further adjustments to it for Mass Effect 3, we're really happy with how it's been received so far."

Did Casey black out and miss the 3-4 months of solid complaining that followed ME2's launch?

He didn't say that everyone responded positively, just that the positive responses were overwhelming.

[JKoopman]

CatatonicMan wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

"We had an overwhelmingly positive response to this approach, and while we'll make further adjustments to it for Mass Effect 3, we're really happy with how it's been received so far."

Did Casey black out and miss the 3-4 months of solid complaining that followed ME2's launch?

He didn't say that everyone responded positively, just that the positive responses were overwhelming.

He did. But I wouldn't personally consider the approx. 30+ new posts made every day in the months following launch complaining about the changes made in ME2 to be an "overwhelmingly positive response".

It's really demoralizing. Months ago the devs seemed to at least ackowledge that a significant portion of their fanbase was unhappy with several of the design changes in ME2 and they seemed to making strides towards assuring them that their feedback would be taken into consideration when designing ME3. Now it seems more and more like they're backpedaling from that position and disregarding the negative feedback by maintaining this "ME2 is perfect, everyone loved it" attitude.

Modifié par JKoopman, 08 août 2010 - 07:37 .

[Lumikki]

Terror_K wrote...

The reason we keep complaining even now is because of those who keep popping into these topics and saying we're wrong repeatedly, making us have to regurgitate and repeat the same issues over and over and explain why we feel this way. If people who are fine with ME2 just left us well enough alone and didn't keep asking for us to explain ourselves repeatedly then we wouldn't keep complaining. But as long as there are people countering everything we say, we'll continue to defend our points.

Do you know why we argue with you points?

Because your only goal is to make ME3 what you want, based what you think was wrong with ME2. Your opinion as complain what is wrong with ME2 is valid and fine complain. How ever, we others who don't agree with you taste of games as where you complains are comming, don't want to give impression that we agree with you. That's why we have to argue with some complains, because for us they aren't real complains and we want developers know we don't agree with you.

Point is that there is few REAL issues in ME2 where many of us can agree. How ever, there is also alot of issues, what are based personal taste and desire of games. Not all people here has same taste, so they don't see something as issue, when you do. Because it's based your own taste of games.

Then again, some of the discontented have simply said their two cents and moved on. Some may have just decided to turn their back on ME2 all together rather than try and argue points thinking that BioWare might just listen to them and not think their game is God's gift to gamers like they seem to (funny how BioWare acknowledge ME1's flaws fine, but not ME2's. Seems it's only when critics complain about the same things that the "fans get listened to" by the looks of it). And looking at BioWare general lack of communication here beyond announcements and shutting down topics, as well as their high-and-mighty attitude that ME2 was practically perfect in every way, it's hard not to blame those who simply decided to say their bit and go rather than continue to try and make a better Mass Effect 3.

There is only few people here who have sayed ME2 is perfect, because it's not. There is only few people who has sayed ME1 is perfect, because it's not. Both of Mass Effects had they own issues. How ever, who we should listen, because many of our opinions aren't anything else than personal taste of games.

Point here is, if Bioware doesn't listen you, maybe they have they reasons for it, because they don't agree with you. As for Casey's marketing BS, every company does that, they say the good things and left often the ugly out. Because it doesn't do any good for product to saying how bad it is. It's just bad marketing strategy. They keep the bad stuff inside the company and use it to future improvements. Assuming they agree that it's bad in the first place.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 août 2010 - 07:50 .

[Davescarface]

In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration

Liar, you call what exploration in ME2 exactly?

a deep and non-linear story that'saffected by your actions

You must think we are all idiots then, because ME2 is so linear you can't really play it for more than 2 playthroughs... Unless you've really got nothing better to do. For me it got boring and pointless to playthrough more than twice.

and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance

Yeah right, better armour customisation than in ME1? This article is basically a complete denial of anything bad in ME2

Modifié par Davescarface, 08 août 2010 - 07:47 .

[Terror_K]

JKoopman wrote...

He did. But I wouldn't personally consider the approx. 30+ new posts made every day in the months following launch complaining about the changes made in ME2 to be an "overwhelmingly positive response".

It's really demoralizing. Months ago the devs seemed to at least ackowledge that a significant portion of their fanbase was unhappy with several of the design changes in ME2 and they seemed to making strides towards assuring them that their feedback would be taken into consideration when designing ME3. Now it seems more and more like they're backpedaling from that position and disregarding the negative feedback by maintaining this "ME2 is perfect, everyone loved it" attitude.

Your opinion only matters if you're a professional critic. BioWare only listens to its fans when the fans' opinions match that of the reviews. After all... many of the changes to ME2 came more from complaints in reviews than from players.

[BatarianBob]

JKoopman wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

"We had an overwhelmingly positive response to this approach, and while we'll make further adjustments to it for Mass Effect 3, we're really happy with how it's been received so far."

Did Casey black out and miss the 3-4 months of solid complaining that followed ME2's launch?

He probably realized that that happens with every game.

Go to any official forum for a video game, no matter how popular or acclaimed, and it's nothing but a b*tch fest about how bad the game is.  If people took the opinions of forumites seriously, there'd be no more gaming industry.

Modifié par Taranatar9, 08 août 2010 - 07:58 .

[VoidShaman]

I bet the majority of people who played ME2 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet that only a small, small minority of people who played ME2 disliked it. And most of them post about it.

[Terror_K]

VoidShaman wrote...

I bet the majority of people who played ME2 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet that only a small, small minority of people who played ME2 disliked it. And most of them post about it.

A lot of us didn't technically "dislike" it. We just found it was lacking and essentially wasted potential, and that it didn't live up to its predecessor. We enjoyed it... it was good. But it wasn't great.

[VoidShaman]

Terror_K wrote...

VoidShaman wrote...

I bet the majority of people who played ME2 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet that only a small, small minority of people who played ME2 disliked it. And most of them post about it.

A lot of us didn't technically "dislike" it. We just found it was lacking and essentially wasted potential, and that it didn't live up to its predecessor. We enjoyed it... it was good. But it wasn't great.

But "a lot" doesn't necessarily mean the majority, or the minority.  500 is a lot, but small compared to 500,000.

My bet is still good.  But I get where you are coming from.

[Burdokva]

Gorn Kregore wrote...

The thing about Mass Effect 2 people (or most people I tend to hang out with) think the game is like Mass Effect 1 (which the majority believe it or not disliked), a friend for example went to me and I remember him saying "heh mass effect is really bad." Once he played Mass Effect 2 his eyes opened up in surprise and he loved the game in the end. It's not due to it being not directed to the RPG nerds, it's due to the majority of gamers being ignorant about the game.

Good that you added the bit in the brackets, because I had an entirely different experience with my friends - most were amazed (those that weren't simply laughed it up) that I bought the "dumbed down shooter version of Mass Effect".

Your opinion is fine, but don't generalize that this is the case with everyone, even the vast majority. Fact is, ME2 is a success as a title, but it's not selling anywhere near other shooters (even if it redesigned to compete with them; it is a shooter, not even an action RPG anymore), and may even turn out to sell worse or on par with the original. And a prime goal of each sequel is to outsell is predecessor.


By the way, to Spectre 117, regarding the "insinuation" about poor sales compared to Mass Effect (1), I'd like to see a single chart that states otherwise. I don't care for the source, I want a quote that says it outsold the first game. Otherwise, you better apologize, because you're needlessly insulting  people/