887 réponses à ce sujet

[Burdokva]

Taranatar9 wrote...
He probably realized that that happens with every game.

Go to any official forum for a video game, no matter how popular or acclaimed, and it's nothing but a b*tch fest about how bad the game is.  If people took the opinions of forumites seriously, there'd be no more gaming industry.

Sorry for double post - absolutely true, a case also valid for the first game.

What boggles the mind is why did they listen to complaints before, yet they quietly skip them by now? Back then, as now, there were both pointless hate threads and detailed topic with suggestions and constructive feedback. 

[Burdokva]

Sorry, don't know what happened!  Could a mod delete this post?

Modifié par Burdokva, 08 août 2010 - 12:33 .

[bjdbwea]

VoidShaman wrote...

I bet the majority of people who played ME2 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet that only a small, small minority of people who played ME2 disliked it. And most of them post about it.

And I bet the majority of people who played ME 1 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet only a small, small minority of people who played ME 1 disliked it. And most of them posted about it.

Yet the successor was changed siginificantly to be more appealing to that small minority. Or at least that was the official explanation. More likely the complaints were only convenient excuses to implement changes that planned anyway. And that is why probably no complaints from any minority or majority will change ME 3 back to be a better game again, unfortunately.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 08 août 2010 - 10:46 .

[Jebel Krong]

bjdbwea wrote...

VoidShaman wrote...

I bet the majority of people who played ME2 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet that only a small, small minority of people who played ME2 disliked it. And most of them post about it.

And I bet the majority of people who played ME 1 enjoyed it immensely. I know I did. And I bet only a small, small minority of people who played ME 1 disliked it. And most of them posted about it.

Yet the successor was changed siginificantly to be more appealing to that small minority. Or at least that was the official explanation. More likely the complaints were only convenient excuses to implement changes that planned anyway. And that is why probably no complaints from any minority or majority will change ME 3 back to be a better game again, unfortunately.

again with the BS, huh? you really never get tired of it, do you?

the sequel was changed only to refine what didn't work from what came before, to appeal to the majority that also liked me1 but recognised it wasn't perfect.

[Terror_K]

Jebel Krong wrote...

the sequel was changed only to refine what didn't work from what came before, to appeal to the majority that also liked me1 but recognised it wasn't perfect.

ME2 is far from perfect too. Are we going to get an ME3 to appeal to the fans who realise that? Or are BioWare going to keep up this misconception that ME2 did everything better in every way and end up with an ME3 that's just as shallow and oversimplified?

[bjdbwea]

ME 2 is almost perfect from a technical (graphics, sound) standpoint. I commend BioWare for that. In any other regard, it's further away from being perfect than ME 1 ever was.

[Terror_K]

bjdbwea wrote...

ME 2 is almost perfect from a technical (graphics, sound) standpoint. I commend BioWare for that. In any other regard, it's further away from being perfect than ME 1 ever was.

It depends how you look at it actually. In a lot of ways ME2 was a less flawed game when it came to gameplay. That said, it was less flawed in the same way that Pong or Pacman are less flawed than ME1.

[IamLegion23]

i dont expect mass effect 3 to be reinvent the rpg gameplay but still i hope it will be a better game than mass effect 1 and 2,and a great end to finish shepherd story

[tonnactus]

fantasypisces wrote...

Sentinel boring? I find it one of the most micro-managing classes in the game. Compared to soldier which is just pull the trigger

What? The sentinel got downgraded to a defense stripper with strong shields. The soldier is as versatile as the sentinel,
even more,because in addition to disruptor ammo(equialent to overload), fire ammo(armor stripper) and concussive shot(against barriers) the class could use all weapons. Hell,the soldier even had good crowd control with squad cyro ammo. The sentinel of the first game was a viable and interesting combination of biotics and techs. Not this time. Crowd control? Only throw. Warp is just a defense stripping power. Thats it on the biotic site. Overload with a radius of 3 meters at best. Thats another advantage of ammo powers: Range and reload times.Activate it once and use it the whole mission.

The sentinel of Mass Effect 2 is disspointing for me.

Modifié par tonnactus, 08 août 2010 - 11:27 .

[bjdbwea]

Terror_K wrote...

It depends how you look at it actually. In a lot of ways ME2 was a less flawed game when it came to gameplay. That said, it was less flawed in the same way that Pong or Pacman are less flawed than ME1.

Yeah, that's true enough. So maybe it's fairer to say: Combat in ME 2 works indeed better, yet is less interesting.

(Yes, that's obviously my opinion..)

Modifié par bjdbwea, 08 août 2010 - 11:44 .

[Gibb_Garrus]

"We plan out the larger plot points of the story from one game to the next, but it would be impossible to plan it all in advance,"



Wait, what? They havent planned out the story yet? They are just making it up along the way? wtf is this ****?

[tonnactus]

bjdbwea wrote...

ME 2 is almost perfect from a technical (graphics, sound) standpoint.

Not when it comes to gameplay relevant bugs. Mass Effect 2 had the squad ammo  bug for months.
The vanguard charge didnt work as it should on the platforms. It sometimes didnt work when the player had a clear line
of sight to the enemy.
Squadmates stood in the air sometimes or climbed on boxes where enemies shoot them to dead.
They ran away from shepart in the n7 mission on the fog planet or the reaper iff.
Even the recent weapon dlc has the problem that the laser pointer of the heavy pistol dissapears.
Its far from perfect even when it comes to gameplay.

Modifié par tonnactus, 08 août 2010 - 11:43 .

[Terror_K]

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

"We plan out the larger plot points of the story from one game to the next, but it would be impossible to plan it all in advance,"

Wait, what? They havent planned out the story yet? They are just making it up along the way? wtf is this ****?

Funny... that directly contradicts several previous statements they made where it was said that the entire main storyline for the trilogy was basically written by Drew and planned before ME1 even shipped.

[bjdbwea]

Terror_K wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

"We plan out the larger plot points of the story from one game to the next, but it would be impossible to plan it all in advance,"

Wait, what? They havent planned out the story yet? They are just making it up along the way? wtf is this ****?

Funny... that directly contradicts several previous statements they made where it was said that the entire main storyline for the trilogy was basically written by Drew and planned before ME1 even shipped.

Yes, indeed. And it explains why the story in ME 2 is nowhere near the quality of ME 1, as even many ME 2 fans admit. Only the most ardent apologists have claimed differently, "because it's written by the same people". Guess at least that claim can be put to rest now.

[Hyunsai]

Mass Effect was a new franchise, and sold around 2.25 million (IF we assume those numbers are correct, of course). I've got the feeling that those who disliked the concept didn't bother to try the 2, which obviously should have capitalized the success of the 1. On top of that, It is hard to make new people jump in a sequel if the story is not standalone or independant of the first.

I never expected the 2 to sell more, and as the 3 will follow the story, well, I don't expect much, especially when Mass effect is not even in the Top 3 of the most popular RPG in 360 (Fable II, Fallout III and Oblivion sold much more), unless Bioware consider the trilogy as a whole when we 're talking about sales (by the way, sequels that are doing worse are very common. Even Gears of War II sold less...).

Don't forget Bioware said that they are very receptive to reviews. Mass Effect 2 on 360 is a game with one of the highest score of this gen in metacritic, so I let you imagine what they will do.


---------------------
Anyway, the things I disliked in Mass Effect 1 were the strange hybrid combat system, the inventory mess, the poor and boring exploration planet design.

The only thing I disliked in Mass Effect 2 was the phocking planet scan system.

So I m quite satisfied that they don't change the gameplay for the 3, as long as the planet scan is gone.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 08 août 2010 - 12:02 .

[FedericoV]

Terror_K wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

ME 2 is almost perfect from a technical (graphics, sound) standpoint. I commend BioWare for that. In any other regard, it's further away from being perfect than ME 1 ever was.

It depends how you look at it actually. In a lot of ways ME2 was a less flawed game when it came to gameplay. That said, it was less flawed in the same way that Pong or Pacman are less flawed than ME1.

I've finished my first playthrough some days ago and I must say that from my poin of view ME2 gameplay is way better than ME1. Yep, maybe it was over-semplified and stripped of many classic RPG elements but a lot of choices were made in the right direction, considering that ME is meant to be a storydriven TPS with RPG elements in terms of interaction with the setting, the story and the charachters (not in terms of skill/stats min-maxing or inventory management). I think that the radical choices made in ME2 made a better game (I'm not a shooter fan, but I'm trying to be objective). ME2 feels like a more refined and focused game in terms of gameplay while ME1 was more in the middle of the road just to say.

Yes maybe for the third game they could rethink the upgrade system (the idea is nice but the realization is too linear and not really interesting). And I hope that they add some depth to the skill system (not too much just more choices: but I thank god that they removed skill aiming and skill hacking/opening locks). And more customization for NPC too.

Modifié par FedericoV, 08 août 2010 - 12:07 .

[Mister Mida]

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

"We plan out the larger plot points of the story from one game to the next, but it would be impossible to plan it all in advance,"

Wait, what? They havent planned out the story yet? They are just making it up along the way? wtf is this ****?

Hmm, I must have missed that passage. It does sound silly not to have the story written out if you are planning a trilogy.

[FedericoV]

Mister Mida wrote...

Gibb_Garrus wrote...

"We plan out the larger plot points of the story from one game to the next, but it would be impossible to plan it all in advance,"

Wait, what? They havent planned out the story yet? They are just making it up along the way? wtf is this ****?

Hmm, I must have missed that passage. It does sound silly not to have the story written out if you are planning a trilogy.

I think that what he means is that while the main story is allready written (I mean the Reaper story) they change things on the fly considering the feedback of fans and critic alike about the secondary story paths (like Cerberus).

Just like TV series or any other media that comes out in episodic format.

Modifié par FedericoV, 08 août 2010 - 12:20 .

[ScotGaymer]

Okay i just wanna add my 2 pence here.



I love RPGs, proper RPGs not this Action/RPG crap thats called Mass Effect but real honest to god RPGs.

Fable, Fallout, Oblivion, KotOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age.



And I have to say while i loved Mass Effect 1's storyline it took obsolutely ages to actually get into it because of the game play. Frankly it was too easy to win even on the harder difficulties.

You could stand right there shooting at everything and not die.

In ME2 if you did that you would die in about 3 seconds.



Personally I thought ME1 was too much like a shooter, with an overcomplicated inventory and levelling system.

It was only the story that keep me interested.



In ME2 they went further in the shooter/action direction with its gameplay; but it was SERIOUSLY dumbed down. And weirdly enough I actually preferred it over ME1's more unwieldly system.

The story isnt as strong as ME1s but its not awful; and I dont agree with a lot or indeed most of what Mister Hudson has said but isnt he the other boss at Bioware?

I mean this with the greatest of respect but we already discovered that Ray Muzukya opens his mouth and talks crap about bollocks he doesnt know about in regards to ME and ME2; is it really such a surprise that his collegue Casey Hudson does the same?



The things he names as having an overwhelmingly positive reviews on here and on review sites; well thats blatantly not true. The poor "upgrade" system. The "inventory". Etc. All of it is amongst the weakest parts of ME2 IMO; and many reviews and reviewers have said the same thing.



However sometimes I feel like im the only person who preferred ME2 over ME1 gameplay wise.

I found the combat system more realistic and simultaneously easier and more difficult to use (easier because its more sensible and intuitive and harder because you are actually in danger of dying quite a lot even from low level enemies). Though I do think they "dumbed" it all down a bit too much; and I hope for ME3 they tweak it back up a bit. And introduce REAL RPG elements back into it.



They dont need to overhaul the engine or make "major" changes to the game to effect the sorts of changes most people seem to want.

[bjdbwea]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

And I have to say while i loved Mass Effect 1's storyline it took obsolutely ages to actually get into it because of the game play. Frankly it was too easy to win even on the harder difficulties.

You could stand right there shooting at everything and not die. In ME2 if you did that you would die in about 3 seconds.

Actually, a single hit from a sniper or a rocket could kill Shepard in ME 1, at least in the first half of the game. Later and with the right armor or abilities not so much, that's how an RPG usually progresses. Whereas Shepard can shrug off a direct hit from a rocket in ME 2 from the very beginning and on every difficulty setting.

[tonnactus]

bjdbwea wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

And I have to say while i loved Mass Effect 1's storyline it took obsolutely ages to actually get into it because of the game play. Frankly it was too easy to win even on the harder difficulties.

You could stand right there shooting at everything and not die. In ME2 if you did that you would die in about 3 seconds.

Actually, a single hit from a sniper or a rocket could kill Shepard in ME 1, at least in the first half of the game. Later and with the right armor or abilities not so much, that's how an RPG usually progresses. Whereas Shepard can shrug off a direct hit from a rocket in ME 2 from the very beginning and on every difficulty setting.

And it even doesnt matter what class shepardt is. An engineer or adept could still died by rockets from a heavy turret
even when the player used colossus armor in MAss Effect.

And snipers didnt exists in the great gameplay on Mass Effect 2 anymore...

Now thats a think that made really sense.

But i agree that the immunity skill was and is stupid.(basic immunity still exists in the form of hardened adrenalin rush)

And,to add something, krogans were dangerous and fast enemies in MAss Effect. Now they are dumb and slow brickwalls of armor.

Modifié par tonnactus, 08 août 2010 - 12:48 .

[Burdokva]

Just to point out something - Mass Effect 2 is harder purely because it's excruciatingly restrictive to the player. Unless you pay for DLC, of course, you have a single and very limited (stats wise armor); squad members barely get any meaningful development (again, stats wise) and throughout the entire game they drop like flies and are barely useful in combat. Don't believe me? Strip away all DLC (incl. Dr.Pepper stuff) and use squad members in firefights, don't use abilities unless they actually have line of sight, and you'll see.



It was fun managing a squad in the first one. Over time, they become useful and can take a lot of of stress in combat. Now I feel I'm soloing, with two additional slots for abilities.

[Hyunsai]

EDIT : Well, whatever.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 08 août 2010 - 01:18 .

[bjdbwea]

Burdokva wrote...

Just to point out something - Mass Effect 2 is harder purely because it's excruciatingly restrictive to the player. Unless you pay for DLC, of course, you have a single and very limited (stats wise armor); squad members barely get any meaningful development (again, stats wise) and throughout the entire game they drop like flies and are barely useful in combat. Don't believe me? Strip away all DLC (incl. Dr.Pepper stuff) and use squad members in firefights, don't use abilities unless they actually have line of sight, and you'll see.

It was fun managing a squad in the first one. Over time, they become useful and can take a lot of of stress in combat. Now I feel I'm soloing, with two additional slots for abilities.

Yes and no. On the one hand, you're right, equipping the companions in ME 1 was fun and it made a real difference. On the other hand, both games are so easy that you can go through them without ever considering the companions. Even more so in ME 2, I think. Commanding your companions does work better, but it's hardly ever needed.

And I agree with tonnactus, the removal of enemy snipers and the dumbing down of Krogans as enemies is another thing that certainly didn't add fun or any challenge to the combat.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 08 août 2010 - 02:03 .

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...
True enough.  However, I have enjoyed every single Bioware game up to this point.  Every.  Single.  One.  Even the Awakening expansion for DAO.  I also enjoyed, Fallout 2 and Fallout 3.  The only rpg I haven't been able to finsih recently was Oblivion (and I've tried more than once)  I figured I was easy to please.  Yet I found ME 2 was such a terrible story, such a pointless exercise in missed opportunities,  such an unworthy sequel to ME 1, that I came to the forums.  I've never done that before.  Not for a Bioware game, not for any other game.
That was oddly cathartic.

Iakus, I usually understand where you're coming from, even if I don't agree with it. But are you honestly telling me that you enjoyed Neverwinter Nights more than Mass Effect 2?