887 réponses à ce sujet

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Darth Drago wrote...

I wonder how many thought that of the problems (weak areas) Mass Effect 1 had only to see how those problems (weak areas) were “resolved” in Mass Effect 2? I see another rebooting of the series when ME3 comes out that will likely be just as drastically changed as ME2 was from ME1.

I doubt it, since the article this thread is based on is telling you thats not going to happen.

What it means is, Bioware have found the critical praise of ME2 means they dont need to reinvent the formula now (read: Weve covered ourselves by excusing the dumbed down mass market appeal as listening to the fans, now we want to just milk this mainstream formula for all its worth).

Maybe the devs will try and tweak the gameplay to at least offer an attempt to be a more complex game and RPG, but I imagine by and large its not going to change too much a second time, since I doubt it was ever about "fan feedback", but instead "we think we can make more money if we do it this way".

Ive seen more discontent over the internet about the dumbed down nature of ME2 than I ever saw about ME1 not "measuring up" as a shooter, but I dont think it will change anything.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 10 août 2010 - 07:22 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

I wonder how many thought that of the problems (weak areas) Mass Effect 1 had only to see how those problems (weak areas) were “resolved” in Mass Effect 2? I see another rebooting of the series when ME3 comes out that will likely be just as drastically changed as ME2 was from ME1.

I doubt it, since the article this thread is based on is telling you thats not going to happen.

What it means is, Bioware have found the critical praise of ME2 means they dont need to reinvent the formula now (read: Weve covered ourselves by excusing the dumbed down mass market appeal as listening to the fans, now we want to just milk this mainstream formula for all its worth).

Maybe the devs will try and tweak the gameplay to at least offer an attempt to be a more complex game and RPG, but I imagine by and large its not going to change too much a second time, since I doubt it was ever about "fan feedback", but instead "we think we can make more money if we do it this way".

Ive seen more discontent over the internet about the dumbed down nature of ME2 than I ever saw about ME1 not "measuring up" as a shooter, but I dont think it will change anything.

Didn't they also justify the changes to DA2 with "because thats where the sales are!".

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't they also justify the changes to DA2 with "because thats where the sales are!".

I wouldnt know, as I dont keep up with DA anymore, and never did very much to begin with (and from what Ive seen, Im glad of it, as it reminds me too much of certain aspects of ME2s development). But it sounds like something the current Bioware would say. DAO being their most successful game ever leading them to determine they can make more money going dumbed down mainstream wouldnt surprise me at least.

[bjdbwea]

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't they also justify the changes to DA2 with "because thats where the sales are!".

We will see how that turns out. Not all that great for ME 2, it seems. But at least it reduced development time and thereby costs. And that's of course also what the changes to DA 2 will achieve. But if their superiors are seriously dreaming of 10 million sales now, that could indicate a kind of being unreasonable that can do much harm to a company in the long run. But certainly they know what they're doing.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 10 août 2010 - 07:37 .

[leeboi2]

Sorry, did that say a deep story? Lol, he been smokin' da ganja man?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't they also justify the changes to DA2 with "because thats where the sales are!".

I wouldnt know, as I dont keep up with DA anymore, and never did very much to begin with (and from what Ive seen, Im glad of it, as it reminds me too much of certain aspects of ME2s development). But it sounds like something the current Bioware would say. DAO being their most successful game ever leading them to determine they can make more money going dumbed down mainstream wouldnt surprise me at least.

http://www.escapistm...om-Dragon-Age-2

Here's the link to the article.

I'm actuelly suprised that DA sold more on the consoles, considering how bad they I heard they were compared to PC version.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Lizardviking wrote...

http://www.escapistm...om-Dragon-Age-2

Here's the link to the article.

I'm actuelly suprised that DA sold more on the consoles, considering how bad they I heard they were compared to PC version.

Well it is 2 platforms vs 1, so Im not surprised really.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

http://www.escapistm...om-Dragon-Age-2

Here's the link to the article.

I'm actuelly suprised that DA sold more on the consoles, considering how bad they I heard they were compared to PC version.

Well it is 2 platforms vs 1, so Im not surprised really.

Yeah of course. But I have a feeling that DA on Xbox sold worse than ME2 on xbox.

But it still sad that they might remove modding tools.

[Christianson]

They are just games

[tonnactus]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

http://www.escapistm...om-Dragon-Age-2

Here's the link to the article.

I'm actuelly suprised that DA sold more on the consoles, considering how bad they I heard they were compared to PC version.

Well it is 2 platforms vs 1, so Im not surprised really.

Its suprising because there are more gaming pcs then ps3 and xboxes together.

It goes on to note: "The report also
estimates the worldwide number of consumers gaming with discrete
graphics solutions on their PCs (Desktop and Notebooks) to be 212.6
million for 2009 and expects this to grow to about 322 million by 2014."

http://www.computera...e.php?id=258871

[Onyx Jaguar]

Video Editing/ sound editing, graphics designing

I doubt many of those users use a PC to game

EDIT:  I mean at 216 million if they were specifically for "Gaming" you'd have a horrendous attach rate

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 10 août 2010 - 08:24 .

[tonnactus]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Video Editing/ sound editing, graphics designing

I doubt many of those users use a PC to game

Even if only 30 percent of that number do it(what i doubt seriously,more people do video editing then gaming?) thats is more then all xboxes and ps3 combined. Im also sure that companies who build those kind of pcs are excluded.

[tonnactus]

"- Mass Effect 2, considered one of this year's best titles, did not chart in the top ten. "

http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1107064p1.html

[cachx]

tonnactus wrote...

"- Mass Effect 2, considered one of this year's best titles, did not chart in the top ten. "
http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1107064p1.html

I'm pretty sure all those Wii games are the best games evur

That chart does not specify if it includes PC, by the way.

[fantasypisces]

In reference to Dragon Age, I am a little worried.

Fans of Dragon Age loved the game (heck it's one of my favorite games), but Dragon Age Awakenings (the expansion) was generally disliked due to a variety of reasons that just wreaked of laziness (which I saw a hint of in ME2).



For instance, I had Dragon Age: Origins at about a 9.2 or so, I really enjoyed it.

But for Dragon Age: Awakenings I had it at a 7.0 because all the changes they made were sort of for the worse. And from the sounds of Dragon Age II, I am really worried.



But in the end they are completely different titles, so who knows.

[Gorn Kregore]

fantasypisces wrote...

In reference to Dragon Age, I am a little worried.
Fans of Dragon Age loved the game (heck it's one of my favorite games), but Dragon Age Awakenings (the expansion) was generally disliked due to a variety of reasons that just wreaked of laziness (which I saw a hint of in ME2).

For instance, I had Dragon Age: Origins at about a 9.2 or so, I really enjoyed it.
But for Dragon Age: Awakenings I had it at a 7.0 because all the changes they made were sort of for the worse. And from the sounds of Dragon Age II, I am really worried.

But in the end they are completely different titles, so who knows.

its because the DAO devs are a joke, i mean holy crap look at their awful updates

[Lumikki]

tonnactus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
It doesn't matter what class or difficulty you play .

It matter for people who played this classes and difficulties.

So, if I start to play as Adept in ME1, then ME2 is bad game because Adept isn't so good in ME2?
So, if I start to play as Infiltrator in ME1, then ME1 is bad game because Infiltrator is better in ME2?

My point is that you can't judge hole game, just from one class perspective. You need to look bigger picturet, beyond you personal taste and disapointment.

PS: Please think how you posts in this forum has affected Biowares gaming comminity in this forum. Also think what kind of image you give for developers. Is it good or bad? Do, you think it will help you cause?

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 août 2010 - 09:56 .

[tonnactus]

Lumikki wrote...

So, if I start to play as Adept in ME1, then ME2 is bad game because Adept isn't so good in ME2?

We discuss about gameplay.Gameplay is different for the classes,otherwise different classes would be pointless.
For me,the adept gameplay in MAss Effect 2 is far worser then it was in the first game.(one example,others are the engineer and the sentinel)
That was the point.

[Kai Hohiro]

tonnactus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

So, if I start to play as Adept in ME1, then ME2 is bad game because Adept isn't so good in ME2?

We discuss about gameplay.Gameplay is different for the classes,otherwise different classes would be pointless.
For me,the adept gameplay in MAss Effect 2 is far worser then it was in the first game.(one example,others are the engineer and the sentinel)
That was the point.

Considering you mentioned the Sentinel in that sentence, which is one of the easiest classes(if not the easiest) to beat insanity with, shows how little you know.

Anyways, if all these people disliked ME2 so much you wouldn't still be hanging out on these forums (and if you do hate ME2 I dont understand why you're still here and haven't found something better to do).
You'll all buy ME3 anyways.

Tools

Modifié par Kai Hohiro, 10 août 2010 - 10:05 .

[Mike2640]

Kai Hohiro wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

So, if I start to play as Adept in ME1, then ME2 is bad game because Adept isn't so good in ME2?

We discuss about gameplay.Gameplay is different for the classes,otherwise different classes would be pointless.
For me,the adept gameplay in MAss Effect 2 is far worser then it was in the first game.(one example,others are the engineer and the sentinel)
That was the point.

Considering you mentioned the Sentinel in that sentence, which is one of the easiest classes(if not the easiest) to beat insanity with, shows how little you know.

Anyways, if all these people disliked ME2 so much you wouldn't still be hanging out on these forums (and if you do hate ME2 I dont understand why you're still here and haven't found something better to do).
You'll all buy ME3 anyways.

Tools

Well clearly this is an intelligent individual. You are a smart amicable person.



When the complaints are valid, as they are in the case of ME2 and the changes being made to DA, then complaints should be made.

[Throw_this_away]

The problem with all of the complaining on the forums is that bioware listened after me1 and made changes. Now everyone thinks that their individual opinion counts. The thing is... Bioware now has gameplay stats to model me3 after. Kills the vocal minority. Plus, a lot of people assume bioware listens to the issues of the common gamer. In reality they care about what reviewers think, since so many gamers are influenced by reviews.

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 12 août 2010 - 04:45 .

[Mike2640]

Throw_this_away wrote...

The problem with all of the complaining on the forums is that bioware listened after me1 and made changes. Now everyone thinks that their individual opinion counts. The thug is... Bioware now has gameplay stats to model me3 after. Kills the vocal minority. Plus, a lot of people assume bioware listens to the issues of the common gamer. In reality they care about what reviewers think, since so many gamers are influenced by reviews.

You're exactly right. They're trying to make the most money they can. I dont begrudge them that, they're a business, but I do wish they'd return to a more traditional RPG format as ME2 had less RPG elements than Modern Warfare 2. Since the chance of that happening increases (albeit infinitesimally) when I and other like-minded individuals vocalize,  we do so.

Plus it makes us feel better.

[Gorn Kregore]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

I wonder how many thought that of the problems (weak areas) Mass Effect 1 had only to see how those problems (weak areas) were “resolved” in Mass Effect 2? I see another rebooting of the series when ME3 comes out that will likely be just as drastically changed as ME2 was from ME1.

I doubt it, since the article this thread is based on is telling you thats not going to happen.

What it means is, Bioware have found the critical praise of ME2 means they dont need to reinvent the formula now (read: Weve covered ourselves by excusing the dumbed down mass market appeal as listening to the fans, now we want to just milk this mainstream formula for all its worth).

Maybe the devs will try and tweak the gameplay to at least offer an attempt to be a more complex game and RPG, but I imagine by and large its not going to change too much a second time, since I doubt it was ever about "fan feedback", but instead "we think we can make more money if we do it this way".

Ive seen more discontent over the internet about the dumbed down nature of ME2 than I ever saw about ME1 not "measuring up" as a shooter, but I dont think it will change anything.

heh someone needs 2 get out of nostalgia n wake up to reality

[Sparda Stonerule]

Mike2640 wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

The problem with all of the complaining on the forums is that bioware listened after me1 and made changes. Now everyone thinks that their individual opinion counts. The thug is... Bioware now has gameplay stats to model me3 after. Kills the vocal minority. Plus, a lot of people assume bioware listens to the issues of the common gamer. In reality they care about what reviewers think, since so many gamers are influenced by reviews.

You're exactly right. They're trying to make the most money they can. I dont begrudge them that, they're a business, but I do wish they'd return to a more traditional RPG format as ME2 had less RPG elements than Modern Warfare 2. Since the chance of that happening increases (albeit infinitesimally) when I and other like-minded individuals vocalize,  we do so.

Plus it makes us feel better.

Except they did listen to a lot of fans when they complained. So now it's a push between those who complained about the first, and got the changes they wanted and those who wanted small tweaks but had a lot of changes added.

This kind of thing always happens with sequels. People have their own vision of what the sequel should be. They just think about what they want and those wants translate to annoyance when they do not show up. As a matter of fact that's probably why I'm able to enjoy so many things. I don't expect things because expectations are largely selfish. It's already known that someone can hear something and extrapolate something else entirely from what was said. It is also well known that game design can change radically before a game comes out. It always amazes me when people point to early builds of a game and then wonder why that isn't there.

People all have their own opinions on things. Opinions are usually fine. It's just when you get into expectations things get extremely messy. Speculation is also a wildly out of control factor for many people.

You can call me dumb or simple for just choosing to reserve my judgement for when I play the finished product. But I think a lot of people would have a lot more fun if they just evaluated their own expectations and tried to moderate them more. I don't know, it just confuses me a little that some people seem to enjoy complaining so much. Especially the people who demand changes, and then when those changes happen complain about the changes they wanted.

I even felt the story of this one was good. It changed my perspective on how Galactic Politics work. In the first game I dearly despised Cerberus. I even hated them at the beginning of the game. But there are always several sides to every story and I came to not hate them as much. I also liked it because Shepard was actually following his only lead on the Reapers that he had at the time. It would have been a bit strange if he had found a super weapon to take out Reapers without any Reaper around to hound him. Sure it was more focused on the Collectors but it was tied in with the Reapers. When Harbinger failed he woke the rest of the Reapers and they decide to fly the rest of the way to the Galaxy. Sure it seems slightly disconnected from the first plot but when I analyzed it myself after playing it I felt it was a good connection to the previous game. 

Again that's all merely my opinion. As for what I want? I want a satisfying conclusion. Both games had their own ups and downs and I would obviously prefer more ups than downs.

[fantasypisces]

I wouldn't say the sentinel is 'the' easiest, but of course is one of the best, the other two being soldier and infiltrator. But all have their strengths and weaknesses, soldier more health, sentinel more armor, infiltrator easy escape.

I don't think sentinel got worse in the second game from a gaming perspective. I just think they got 'less of a variety', but that is true for all classes. I loved my sentinel in ME1 because I had so many abilities, I always love the jack of all trade classes. In ME2 because of so much fewer skills (which I hate btw) it can seem they got toned down, but compared to everyone else they were actually better in many ways.

I should add, I think ME2 was perfectly fine for the middle story in a trilogy. As typical in a trilogy, the middle introduces more characters, more villains, more allies, and new perspectives that will all have a large bearing on the final chapter. In this way, I think ME2 was fine. It was about recruiting a team (a team that will probably play a big role in the third game, whether as squad members or cameos), introducing Cerberus (new perspective - helps your character to finally see what side he stands on, i.e. protect the galaxy at all costs or protect the galaxy for the better of all), and still has the enemy involved, in this case the reapers trying to find a new way to attack the galaxy.

Think of the collectors as Saruman (sorry Lotr reference). Ultimately he was a pawn, just like the collectors, and his story is mostly only central to the second act (movie) and minor reappearance (book). But ultimately without Saruman (collectors) you would not have Rohan (new squad members), to go attack the big bag Sauron (reapers).  Because if you just showed up and went "Hey Samara, cool Justicar lady, I'm off to attack the Reapers, want to come?" She would simply reply "What are the Reapers?". But saying he lets go attack the collectors, she says "The Reapers are a worthy foe". Then sometime later she learns about the Reapers in your attempts to stop collectors, now she is able to go back to Thessia (or wherever) and say "Hey everyone, I'm a Justicar, you respect me, the reapers are real and are a threat!". Bam, all dozen Justicars show up.

Modifié par fantasypisces, 11 août 2010 - 12:53 .