887 réponses à ce sujet

[Kroesis-]

I wouldn't mind at all if ME3 follows the ME2 formula. Sure there will be a few tweaks and differences but now they'll have the advantage of being able to draw on the experience of having done it in two different ways.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

catabuca wrote...

PKchu wrote...

catabuca wrote...

PKchu wrote...

I think everyone in the world loves this game except the people on Bioware's forums.

It's unreal. I for one am extremely happy that ME3 will be like ME2 - ME2 was a great experience. I would prefer another game like ME2 compared to ME1, and I like both RPGs and FPS.

I'm all for tweaking but there's no need for 150 items and turning crap into Omni-gel.

I love the way so many people see criticism and ignore the actual words and say everyone wants ME1's exact inventory system back.

That's funny, I love how you ignored what I said and put words in my mouth. 

I simply am happy with the current system in ME2 - it's streamline, efficient. I don't think adding an inventory would make the game any better, or in a way I'd appreciate. You may disagree - that's fine.

I haven't argued for adding an inventory.

Fair enough. You know it's easier to want to argue points and just be right instead of actually thinking about the other person, so my apologies. Civil discussion is better.

[Aradace]

First of all, ME2 and ME are great games....But beyond that, they are great TPS games...The "RPG" elements are so few in them that you cannot "technically" call it an "RPG"...Which is why it is purely a TPS with some customization elements and an interactive story. Which, Im sorry, coming from the "Old school" of "RPG'ers", a few customizations and an interactive story do NOT make an RPG.



It is precisely the elements that Casey mentioned in the article about "sifting through inventory.....weapons and gear with stats..." and whatnot along with said story that actually makes an RPG. ME1 I will concede, was an RPG...ME2, however, is no more an RPG than Uncharted 2: Among Thieves or Gears of War.



Anyway, as I said...ME and ME2 are both great games, that's not the issue. What the issue is for me is that they tried to pass ME2 off as an RPG in the beginning rather than what it actually is, a TPS with a few customization elements. It's still one of the best games Ive played in a very long time in any genre. However, it would NOT be in my RPG category of "Best games Ive played" but would, however, be in my SHOOTER category of "Best games Ive played". (which btw is in a very close second place right now right behind Uncharted 2 lol)



So, unless they bring back the inventory system (reinvented of course) for ME3 and the other elements that actually made it an RPG, then the third game will also be a TPS as well. (and judging by the article, it is unlikely that will happen.) So, let's see if they try to pass off ME3 as an RPG as well or actually admit to it being in the genre that it actually is, and that being "Shooter"

[DarthCaine]

@Aradace

Nobody ever said ME1 and ME2 are traditional RPGs. They are ACTION RPGs. People need to understand that

Modifié par DarthCaine, 04 août 2010 - 04:04 .

[catabuca]

See, this whole customisation thing can be done without bringing back an inventory, and without making many changes to the system implemented in ME2.

Any weapon mods you buy/find/scan (just as you buy/find/scan armour and upgrades) get added to the ship's armoury, and when you use the weapon locker there (which, seriously, you can currently go through the whole game not touching once) you can apply those mods in different combinations to various weapons (like a bigger clip that might sacrifice stability, or a more stable barrel that might sacrifice damage, etc.). It'd be just like the current armour customisation system. No inventory, no omni-gel, no trying to juggle things around.

Secondly, for armour, you could have an armour cabinet in the armoury as well where you can kit your team out. Seriously, as entertaining as it is to see Miranda's ****** jiggle around, it's less than realistic that her and Jack, for example, would survive several incendiary rounds to the chest in those get-ups. Again, the system is already in place to equip Shepard, but it could be extended to include your squad.

Both those options take the system from ME2, one that doesn't rely on bulky and unwieldy inventories, but extends it to include greater customisation. It sacrifices nothing, imo, and would make both sides happy.

[catabuca]

PKchu wrote...

catabuca wrote...

PKchu wrote...

catabuca wrote...

PKchu wrote...

I think everyone in the world loves this game except the people on Bioware's forums.

It's unreal. I for one am extremely happy that ME3 will be like ME2 - ME2 was a great experience. I would prefer another game like ME2 compared to ME1, and I like both RPGs and FPS.

I'm all for tweaking but there's no need for 150 items and turning crap into Omni-gel.

I love the way so many people see criticism and ignore the actual words and say everyone wants ME1's exact inventory system back.

That's funny, I love how you ignored what I said and put words in my mouth. 

I simply am happy with the current system in ME2 - it's streamline, efficient. I don't think adding an inventory would make the game any better, or in a way I'd appreciate. You may disagree - that's fine.

I haven't argued for adding an inventory.

Fair enough. You know it's easier to want to argue points and just be right instead of actually thinking about the other person, so my apologies. Civil discussion is better.

Likewise. This forum can at times bring out the worst in us all

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Well, despite the criticism of ME2s RPG elements far exceeding that of ME1s shooter combat, Im not surprised to see this anyway. It was never a question of fan reaction, simply dumbing down and mass appeal.



Still, hopefully this time theyll actually focus on the plot and dialogue more than ******, predicatable shooting galleries making up most of the game.



Would be nice to see some real hub areas return too, rather than glorified shopping malls designed to herd the player into aforementioned shooting galleries.

[Matroska]

Well to be fair, people would traditionally roleplay simply by pretending to be certain characters and interacting with other roleplayers. In that sense, ME1 and ME2 are very much roleplaying games. I you completely took away the shooting and just left the conversation, they'd be like old traditional "real life" RPGs, which didn't necessarily have combat. Simply adding in combat doesn't detract from that and make it less of an RPG. JRPGs often have loads of items, deep customisation and loads of skills and spells to learn to use, but in many ways they're not like traditional RPGs at all because you have no impact on the story; your only influence over the game is not getting a Game Over in battle.



Also, if you think ME2 is linear - holy crap, play Final Fantasy XIII. I am not exaggerating when I say that's just one very long corridor filled with enemies. Sure, the texture of the corridor changes, but that's it. There aren't even any villages.

[Throw_this_away]

DarthCaine wrote...

ME1 gave the illusion of having many weapons and armor, and people still fall for it. In reality, there was only 3 different armors while the rest were reskins. As for the weapons, there was 2 models of each type and they all fired the same (unlike in ME2), and the others were just reskins with a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're different

This man speaks the truth. 

[shootist70]

BeastMTL wrote...

ME1 sold me on buying ME2 (day one). ME2 made absolutely sure that ME3 is not an auto-purchase for me.

"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration, intense combat, a deep and non-linear story that's affected by your actions, and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance...

Seriously Casey, what game were you playing ? The only way I can describe everything in the game beside combat is shallow!

Depends on what your interpretation of 'shallow' is. Personally I think that lots of items and lots of stats aren't depth, they're a simulation of depth. 

I couldn't care less if we're limited to a few skills and a few weapons, as long as we have more exploration, more choices, deeper story and characterisation, and  more enemy types that require a whole range of tactics to overcome them. That's because depth should be in the game-world, not on inventory/character screens.

Modifié par shootist70, 04 août 2010 - 04:17 .

[Throw_this_away]

shootist70 wrote...

Depends on what your interpretation of 'shallow' is. Personally I think that lots of items and lots of stats aren't depth, they're a simulation of depth. 

I couldn't care less if we're limited to a few skills and a few weapons, as long as we have more exploration, more choices, deeper story and characterisation, and  more enemy types that require a whole range of tactics to overcome them. That's because depth should be in the game-world, not on inventory/character screens.

QFT

I agree 100%.  There is more to a RPG than inventory.  I think the previous inventory "killed immerson" because it was not realistic to be able to carry so much gear, or swap armour on the surface of a hostile planet (and the same people that want armor swapping also comaplin about Miranda's jumpsuit...).

[theelementslayer]

shootist70 wrote...

BeastMTL wrote...

ME1 sold me on buying ME2 (day one). ME2 made absolutely sure that ME3 is not an auto-purchase for me.

"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration, intense combat, a deep and non-linear story that's affected by your actions, and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance...

Seriously Casey, what game were you playing ? The only way I can describe everything in the game beside combat is shallow!

Depends on what your interpretation of 'shallow' is. Personally I think that lots of items and lots of stats aren't depth, they're a simulation of depth. 

I couldn't care less if we're limited to a few skills and a few weapons, as long as we have more exploration, more choices, deeper story and characterisation, and  more enemy types that require a whole range of tactics to overcome them. That's because depth should be in the game-world, not on inventory/character screens.

This^ ME2s story was much deeper if you actually thought about it. Sure it might not have as far reaching consequences but it was like Spiderman vs. Batman. The first one you were the hero, no matter what. The second one you were more the vigilante, and more playing the game on your rules. Much harder decisions in my opinion.

In the first you had to decide wether to kill the rachni, kill shiala, and which squadmate to get rid of.

In the second you had Jacks loyalty mission, what to do with aresh. He was hard to decide because yes he wanted to start it up again, on the other hand he was mentally ill. There was no question about it.

Samara vs. Morinth. A mother killing her daughter in the eyes of a code, pretty strong stuff.

Talis mission, which side to pick. Tell the truth and make tali mad or exile her.

Jacobs mission-Imagine your own father doing that.

Really it seemed a more desperate time, and faster paced. All in all I felt it was a deeper storyline told through the characters. For people who are saying there isnt a plot, there is one. Inside the characters. Talk to them and its a deep storyline.

[PROKNIFER69]

I am pleased with this info.

[Titanium Man]

theelementslayer wrote...
Really it seemed a more desperate time, and faster paced. All in all I felt it was a deeper storyline told through the characters. For people who are saying there isnt a plot, there is one. Inside the characters. Talk to them and its a deep storyline.

Characters Make The Plot.

[Aradace]

DarthCaine wrote...

@Aradace

Nobody ever said ME1 and ME2 are traditional RPGs. They are ACTION RPGs. People need to understand that

As I said, they are no more RPGs than Uncharted or Gears of War....They are Shooters, plain and simple.  ME1, yes, as I said falls in the category of RPG (and by RPG I mean RPG in ANY aspect of the word, ACTION included.) but ME2 does NOT fall into this.  Yes, you "level up" your character and yes there are a couple other elements there...But the Shooter parts of it FAR outweigh the RPG elements.  Now Borderlands....THAT is a Shooter/Action RPG.  ME2, not so much.

[Throw_this_away]

theelementslayer wrote...

Really it seemed a more desperate time, and faster paced. All in all I felt it was a deeper storyline told through the characters. For people who are saying there isnt a plot, there is one. Inside the characters. Talk to them and its a deep storyline.

I agree with this also.  I also think that the story was character focused in ME2 because the characters in ME1 became so popular.  Bioware catered to the fans of ME1 (the same ones that are posting in the character fan threads as ou read this...) by making ME2 a more character focused game.  

I think the ME3 plot will be equally character focused... but this time the character missions will be directly integrated into the overall reaper story.  

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 04 août 2010 - 04:37 .

[theelementslayer]

Aradace wrote...

As I said, they are no more RPGs than Uncharted or Gears of War....They are Shooters, plain and simple.  ME1, yes, as I said falls in the category of RPG (and by RPG I mean RPG in ANY aspect of the word, ACTION included.) but ME2 does NOT fall into this.  Yes, you "level up" your character and yes there are a couple other elements there...But the Shooter parts of it FAR outweigh the RPG elements.  Now Borderlands....THAT is a Shooter/Action RPG.  ME2, not so much.

Seriosuly buddy? There is an RPG there, your playing a role as commander shepard. The dialouge wheel? The actions that you take? Paragon vs Renegade? Romances? Ringing any bells? Uncharted and GoW, while good gaems are 3rd person shooters, no dialogue to choose, no romance. The path will always be the same no matter what. In ME2 no.

And borderlands really? the only thing it has of RPG style is the inventory. The story isnt bad but is a joke compared to ME2s.

RPGs arent about inventories, and lots of loot. Its about playing a ROLE.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

theelementslayer wrote...

Really it seemed a more desperate time, and faster paced. All in all I felt it was a deeper storyline told through the characters. For people who are saying there isnt a plot, there is one. Inside the characters. Talk to them and its a deep storyline.

I did, and it wasnt deep, it was a series of completely disconnected side missions, most of which relying mainly on shooter combat, all of which had little impact on the final, anti-climactic suicide mission the entire game had been building up to.

ME2s story wasnt deeper. It was just busywork. Its why the game ends on exactly the same note as ME1: "Oooh, the reapers are coming!"

[Demigod]

shootist70 wrote...

Depends on what your interpretation of 'shallow' is. Personally I think that lots of items and lots of stats aren't depth, they're a simulation of depth. 

I couldn't care less if we're limited to a few skills and a few weapons, as long as we have more exploration, more choices, deeper story and characterisation, and  more enemy types that require a whole range of tactics to overcome them. That's because depth should be in the game-world, not on inventory/character screens.

I agree.

I would like a little more depth in the upgrade system for the guns etc- it couldnt get any lighter unless they took it out. But a deeper story and a lot more companion interaction are the most important to me. ME2 was  certainly not an empire strikes back.
 One of my pet hates I hope they find a way to improve is the emails. The emails we perhaps necessary and in some cases worked but they took out any real consequences of the choices we made. Ok we are playing biowares story and they get to put priority on the choices but ins some cases the one time email is so disappointing. It would be nice to have some of the email continuations such as the one about the keepers picked up for a real encounter in 3.

Also this is supposed to be 2180's haven't they heard of voice or picture mail yet - voice over fees and x360 disc space I know 

[CShep25]

Keep the combat. Keep the inventory. Keep everything but dear god, give us REAL non-linear levels, abandon the modular unrelated plot form ME2 set up, and give us longer PLATONIC conversations with our crew. The gameplay mechanics of ME2 with the immersion of ME1. That's not too much to ask for is it?

Modifié par CShep25, 04 août 2010 - 04:44 .

[Whatever42]

This obsession about inventory borders on the scary.

But I fully expect Mr. Hudson to say nothing else and I am very much looking forward to ME3. Thanks very much for posting, Throw.

I agree with everyone else, though, that there are several areas where Bioware could improve on and wow us even more: more continuity beyond emails (the 1000 plot flags gets me hopeful), more interaction with your party, more immersive party chatter, more customization options (fluff is important in an RPG), refined shooter mechanics, more innovation in level design.

I won't say better plot or story because this is the big finale. I expect nothing less than a grand finish. Hopefully, they can avoid the minor pacing problems in ME2. I also very much hope for a couple big plotholes, because I like Smudboy and I know he's looking forward to them.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 04 août 2010 - 04:52 .

[Aradace]

theelementslayer wrote...

Aradace wrote...

As I said, they are no more RPGs than Uncharted or Gears of War....They are Shooters, plain and simple.  ME1, yes, as I said falls in the category of RPG (and by RPG I mean RPG in ANY aspect of the word, ACTION included.) but ME2 does NOT fall into this.  Yes, you "level up" your character and yes there are a couple other elements there...But the Shooter parts of it FAR outweigh the RPG elements.  Now Borderlands....THAT is a Shooter/Action RPG.  ME2, not so much.

Seriosuly buddy? There is an RPG there, your playing a role as commander shepard. The dialouge wheel? The actions that you take? Paragon vs Renegade? Romances? Ringing any bells? Uncharted and GoW, while good gaems are 3rd person shooters, no dialogue to choose, no romance. The path will always be the same no matter what. In ME2 no.

And borderlands really? the only thing it has of RPG style is the inventory. The story isnt bad but is a joke compared to ME2s.

RPGs arent about inventories, and lots of loot. Its about playing a ROLE.

That's your opinion just like my position is an opinion....Just dont pass it off as fact.  If you take the last line of your comment and apply it to every game out there on the market, then technically by your definition, almost EVERY game is an RPG which is technically incorrect.  Fallout 3 -RPG......Oblivion-RPG.....Again, if you read my post carefully you'll see that I do acknowledge that there are SOME RPG elements there.  But not enough for it to be really considered an RPG.  At best, it's more like a TPS with a dash of RPG.  I come from the generation of RPG'ers that used to play DnD 2nd Edition (3rd was way better IMO ) and the like.  Our characters werent JUST about playing a role...Sure, that was a large portion of it but the rest of that was epic battles (there are no epic fights in ME2) and the possibility of great loot to upgrade ourselves.  You can call ME2 an RPG all you want, but you're not going to convince me of that.  As someone else posted here, something about how the ONLY motivation you have for killing a "boss" is to activate the next cutscene....There's no loot...No sense of accomplishment. 

For me, an RPG is more than just a role....It's the loot....the distribution of stats (no ME2's system for stat distribution does NOT count lol.) Sure, the conversation wheel is there and again, there are SOME RPG elements present...But not enough for me to call it an RPG.  In my eyes, it will forever be called a TPS.  Again, I love ME2, it's a great game...But I'll be damned if Im going to call it an "RPG" lol.

[A Killing Sound]

Interesting read. It's too bad that Mass Effect 3 is playing it the safe route and not trying to do something new.
Mass 3 gameplay should be in between 1 & 2. More inventory, better xp system (leveling after a mission? Crap), eliminate the mission concluded screen, and re do the HUD, I think that was the worst change from Mass 1 to 2.
Even if they don't change it, I'll probably get it, because I am a sucker for good games.

Modifié par A Killing Sound, 04 août 2010 - 04:49 .