887 réponses à ce sujet

[Lieutenant Flashlight]

I guess this can be considered a good thing. I personally could care less for the gameplay. Mass Effect One brought me in with it's story and characters, not the gameplay. I'm sure all of us have seen the many people arguing about the amount of "plot holes" in ME2. ME2's story was very weak compared to ME1 but it was still good regardless. This makes me hope they will focus on squad interaction and more story for this epic ending to this amazing trilogy.

[Fs_nao]

Vena_86 wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration, intense combat, a deep and non-linear story that's affected by your actions, and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance...

"We had an overwhelmingly positive response to this approach, and while we'll make further adjustments to it for Mass Effect 3, we're really happy with how it's been received so far."[/i]

This has to be a joke.
Exploration? Exploration of small linear levels with fixed and predictable item and enemy positioning. The exploration aspect is probably the worst of ME2 or any RPG I know.
Rich armor customization? Helmets that disrupt dialogue sequences and no customization for squad members.
Weapon customization? Very few weapons without visible stats for comparison (pros and cons) and a linear upgrade system.
Deep and non-linear story? Encouraged full renegade or full paragon gameplay (as opposed to dragon age) with very little connection to the reaper main plot, no iconic villain and no surprises in the predictable episodic story structure.

And ofcourse the response looks overwhelmingly positive if you ignore all the massive dissappointment threads.

 

That's exactly what I thought.

Exploration nearly doesn't exist and that's a huge disappointment. 
    - ME1 : the citadel quite huge to explore and with numerous great side quests + noveria + mako 
    - ME2...well : illium, omega and the citadel aren't really small but they are sooooo empty, nearly no sidequests and most aren't interesting.

On the other hand if you consider that probing again and again until you're sick is part of an awesome sense of exploration then that could be true...I don't agree though

Customization is also clearly limited especially concerning the weapons. The armor pieces are greatly limited too...no need to speak of the squad mates.

The story is a let down too. I mean, "deep story", seriously ?

ME2 has good improvements notably squad mates, combats and last mission : but exploration, customization and story were way better in ME1.

[this isnt my name]

bjdbwea wrote...

In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration,

Really? And here I thought all exploration had been cut out in ME 2, in favor of convenient and completeley linear levels.

intense combat,

Perhaps. If you call repetitive cover-shoot-cover-shoot sequences "intense".

a deep and non-linear story that's affected by your actions,

And here I thought most of your choices were reduced to emails, and not even saving or sacrificing the council made any difference. Deep and non-linear too? Hmm... wait, I get it! Someone has to have made a mistake! He is the only one who actually played ME 2 - they released the wrong game to the public! Of course!

and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance...

Right. That's why we're stuck with one kind of armor and a few DLC armors, as well as a handful of weapons that can't be modded anymore. That's also why we have to use mods to equip the numerous armors and clothes that are in the game, but normally unusable.

This. He really needs to look at the game, exploration was linear, or scanning replaced it... ****ing scanning.
Combat wasnt that great, universal cooldown, biotecs failing at armour/shileds. and it was mostly shooting, ME1 had a varied combat, here its pretty much the same, unless your on insanity, you spend more time in cover...
Non linear, 50% is collecting people, everyone dose this, then 45% solving all of thier issues then the suicide mission. The same every ****ing time.
By that logic saints row 2 is a better game, as it has better customisation, and imo armour customisation sucked, as did having so few weapons, brink back ME1 inventory please.

[Throw_this_away]

A Killing Sound wrote...

Interesting read. It's too bad that Mass Effect 3 is playing it the safe route and not trying to do something new.
Mass 3 gameplay should be in between 1 & 2. More inventory, better xp system (leveling after a mission? Crap), eliminate the mission concluded screen, and re do the HUD, I think that was the worst change from Mass 1 to 2.
Even if they don't change it, I'll probably get it, because I am a sucker for good games.

New for ME3 will be multiplayer maps, more skills to choose from (increased level cap), more modular customization of armour (squaddies also), and some light kinect integration (probably gestures during conversation).

[Master Smurf]

A deep NON-LINEAR story - LOL!!!! right



I just hope they make the battlefields a little more organic.

[Jaron Oberyn]

How was Mass 2's missions any more linear than Mass 1's? Do you want a completely open environment on missions? And all of you guys talking about not buying it because of this, that's all talk. You know your going to buy it. Mass Effect 2 was a great game, and like Casey said you can't define an RPG just by having an inventory with hundreds of items and upgrades. It's not that simple.



-Polite

[Orchomene]

theelementslayer wrote...

This^ ME2s story was much deeper if you actually thought about it. Sure it might not have as far reaching consequences but it was like Spiderman vs. Batman. The first one you were the hero, no matter what. The second one you were more the vigilante, and more playing the game on your rules. Much harder decisions in my opinion.

In the first you had to decide wether to kill the rachni, kill shiala, and which squadmate to get rid of.

In the second you had Jacks loyalty mission, what to do with aresh. He was hard to decide because yes he wanted to start it up again, on the other hand he was mentally ill. There was no question about it.

Samara vs. Morinth. A mother killing her daughter in the eyes of a code, pretty strong stuff.

Talis mission, which side to pick. Tell the truth and make tali mad or exile her.

Jacobs mission-Imagine your own father doing that.

Really it seemed a more desperate time, and faster paced. All in all I felt it was a deeper storyline told through the characters. For people who are saying there isnt a plot, there is one. Inside the characters. Talk to them and its a deep storyline.

I'm sorry to disagree, psychotic and highly emotionaly involving is not the same as deep story. Otherwise, many low quality books involving a lot of tears and dramatic situations would be chef d'oeuvres.
If you need psychotic characters and lots of emotions, that is only to hide the emptiness of a story like in some Z story drama "The Young and the Restless".

[Kandid001]

rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance

Yeah right, ME2 really had it. Everyone who says otherwise is a hater.

[Whatever42]

Bioware is non-linear. You usually can complete missions in any order. There are usually 2 story endings. Compared to a JRPG, it is very non-linear.



Compared to Betheda maybe not so much. Bethesda, you can wander around lost shooting people for hours with no clue about the story. Now that is non-linear. But Bioware has never done that. It would be cool if they did try an open-world game but that's not their meat-and-potatoes.

[PsyrenY]

Throw_this_away wrote...

I am also happy that the overall action/RPG elements will remain the same as I am a big fan of all the changes they made for ME2.  Hopefully the same types of changes will be seen in DA2 also.  

I just had a funny mental image of my mage sliding into chest-high cover, before peeking out with his wand for a head-shot with Arcane Bolt.

[Throw_this_away]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

I am also happy that the overall action/RPG elements will remain the same as I am a big fan of all the changes they made for ME2.  Hopefully the same types of changes will be seen in DA2 also.  

I just had a funny mental image of my mage sliding into chest-high cover, before peeking out with his wand for a head-shot with Arcane Bolt.

I hear you.  Mind you I was referring more to ME2's streamlining.  But in reality it would be more realistic with a mage to use cover given their lack of armour.  Mind you, I am not so sure the cover system would work for DA2.  

However... what would be awesome in DA2 would be two knights fighting.  Each is hiding behind the same barrel, popping out and taking a swing at the other.  Now THAT would be epic gameplay.  

[Freakaz0idx]

-An awesome sense of exploration
-a deep and non-linear story that'saffected by your actions


Anyone else chuckled a little? That sounds like ME1, I play ME2 to shoot stuff.

Modifié par Freakaz0idx, 04 août 2010 - 05:44 .

[Tazzmission]

thanks for the article. its good to know there working on it rather than shelving it

[Aradace]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

-An awesome sense of exploration
-a deep and non-linear story that'saffected by your actions


Anyone else chuckled a little? That sounds like ME1, I play ME2 to shoot stuff.

Not only did I chuckle, but I outright laughed heh....That DOES sound vaguely like ME1 (albiet I didnt get any sense of real exploration in ME1 either.)

[Burdokva]

Mass Effect 2 is linear, even compared to its predecessor. Not completely linear, but very much so. You have a determined number of squad members that must be recruited, before opening a pre-determined main quest mission, then again recruit a fixed number of people that must all be recruited before opening the next fixed main story mission etc.

Mass Effect had four main missions which could be played in any random order and only Ilos and the Ciadel (endgame) were in a fixed order.

I brought this in another topic, which of course resulted in a flame war, but if BioWare weren't limited by the 360s disk swapping, the story could have been non-linear, with the player choosing when to recruit a squad member and when to go to a story mission. Mind you, that mostly much works even with simple save games and hex edits.

By the way, props up to Kandid001 for his signature, I fully concur!

EDIT: To Aradace:

Of, for Gods sake, here we go again - you just need to put the stupid magical name of a console limitation, just point out a fact, in an entirely different context, and an obligatory insulted fanboy jumps, explaining how hurt his feeling are and how a PC elitist started a flame war. You brought this up, besides completely missing the point of an entire post you quoted. One that was on topic, while your ain't. You sir, are a troll.

Modifié par Burdokva, 04 août 2010 - 06:13 .

[Tazzmission]

Burdokva wrote...

Mass Effect 2 is linear, even compared to its predecessor. Not completely linear, but very much so. You have a determined number of squad members that must be recruited, before opening a pre-determined main quest mission, then again recruit a fixed number of people that must all be recruited before opening the next fixed main story mission etc.

Mass Effect had four main missions which could be played in any random order and only Ilos and the Ciadel (endgame) were in a fixed order.

I brought this in another topic, which of course resulted in a flame war, but if BioWare weren't limited by the 360s disk swapping, the story could have been non-linear, with the player choosing when to recruit a squad member and when to go to a story mission. Mind you, that mostly much works even with simple save games and hex edits.

By the way, props up to Kandid001 for his signature, I fully concur!

i love both games. i just think when fans heard the whole empire strikes back deal the one producer said people got really excited and came out disapointed. i personaly feel the empire strikes back line was meaning that the crew can be killed off. in me1 you only had one crew member death and that is with kaiden or ashley. now in me2 if you dont gain someones loyalty that can indeed end up messy come the suicide mission. i believe me2 had a darker feel when it came to getting to know your squad

[Aradace]

Burdokva wrote...

Mass Effect 2 is linear, even compared to its predecessor. Not completely linear, but very much so. You have a determined number of squad members that must be recruited, before opening a pre-determined main quest mission, then again recruit a fixed number of people that must all be recruited before opening the next fixed main story mission etc.

Mass Effect had four main missions which could be played in any random order and only Ilos and the Ciadel (endgame) were in a fixed order.

I brought this in another topic, which of course resulted in a flame war, but if BioWare weren't limited by the 360s disk swapping, the story could have been non-linear, with the player choosing when to recruit a squad member and when to go to a story mission. Mind you, that mostly much works even with simple save games and hex edits.

By the way, props up to Kandid001 for his signature, I fully concur!

And yet you bring it here knowing full well it could start yet another "flame war"....Yea, that's not inflamitory (no pun intended) or anything.  .  Seriously though, regardless of limitations, that's something you guys (the PC'ers I guess) as a whole have to deal with.  That as long as there are consolers, you wont be getting the game of your dreams I guess.  As far as the nature of the statment (end line inlcuded).  Im tired of fighting over who thinks who is superior....Seriously.  It's old....it's lame...it's a dead horse that doesnt need to be brought up again.  (and yes, you did not only by the "limited disc space" comment but also when you made reference to another person's signature)  Dont we have better things to do/discuss besides the age old PC vs Console bs? lol.

[WilliamShatner]

DarthCaine wrote...

Burdokva wrote...

Just checked VGChartz, and by week 20:

Mass Effect total sales (Xbox360) - 2,25 million
Mass Effect 2 total sales (Xbox360) - 1,86 million

VGchartz is very unreliable. For one, ME2 lacks the Japan sales. VGchartz doesn't have correct numbers. ME2 has been out for about 6 months. ME1 has been out for 3 years

It's more reliable than you are just saying "ME2 outsold ME1" without any numbers to back it up.

ME2 is done.  It had a big opening week due to the popularity of Mass Effect and then it fell like a rock.  It's not in the charts anymore.  It's selling less than 10,000 WW a week.

Even if it somehow magically tie or edges pass Mass Effect, with the amount of hype and advertising pumped behind it, the changes the game and catering for a mystical "new audience" was certainly not worth it.

[Whatever42]

In ME1, after I arrived on the citadel, I only had a few missions available to me until I talke with the council. Then I had to accomplish a few more before I could speak with them again and open up the rest of the missions. Then, after accomplishing the 4 main missions, it sparked a story event which allowed you to being the ending sequence.

In ME2, I had to complete one mission before getting my ship, recruit 4 people to create a story event and open up the rest of the game. Then, I had to complete a set number of missions (but no particular ones) to cause the story event that opens up the ending sequence.

If anything, ME2 is less linear than ME1.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 04 août 2010 - 06:15 .

[Burdokva]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

In ME1, after I arrived on the citadel, I only had a few missions available to me until I talke with the council. Then I had to accomplish a few more before I could speak with them again and open up the rest of the missions. Then, after accomplishing the 4 main missions, it sparked a story event which allowed you to being the ending sequence.

In ME2, I had to complete one mission before getting my ship, recruit 4 people to create a story event and open up the rest of the game. Then, I had to complete a set number of missions (but no particular ones) to cause the story event that opens up the ending sequence.

If anything, ME2 is less linear than ME1.

Yes, but those 4 people are always pre-determined, on every playthrough. If all recruitment options (maybe Legion excluded, for obvious reasons) were open immediately after Freedom's Progress and the main quest missions trigger after acquiring a set number of randomly recruited people, I would have agreed. Better yet, make a plot hook:

- if Mordin recruited - Horizon triggers
- if Mordin not yet recruited - trigger Collector ship

This would have, without much (if any; pretty much everything works with a random recruit order with save editor tweaks) redesigns of the game have allowed for much more freedom for the player. Or you don't agree?

[Kroesis-]

Same ****, different thread.

[BeastMTL]

shootist70 wrote...

Depends on what your interpretation of 'shallow' is. Personally I think that lots of items and lots of stats aren't depth, they're a simulation of depth. 

I couldn't care less if we're limited to a few skills and a few weapons, as long as we have more exploration, more choices, deeper story and characterisation, and  more enemy types that require a whole range of tactics to overcome them. That's because depth should be in the game-world, not on inventory/character screens.

I didnt mention anything about invertory mostly because the original was way too much micromanagement. Though I dont completely agree with it's abolition either since I find the ammo powers just as bad. The research station was good enough for everything else but that.

As for shallow, I stand by my statement. In a narrative, depth is indicated by how your character and/or in this case squadmates evolve/change. Can you seriously tell me that Shepard at the beginning of the game (pre-death) is different from the end ? How about your squadmates, have they changed ? 

"That's because depth should be in the game-world"
Strange, the game world seemed pretty much the same wherever i went. Oh the textures were different, but they all felt like an on-rails shooter with sporadic barriers/boxes/rocks whenever an encounter is going to happen.

[theelementslayer]

Kroesis- wrote...

Same ****, different thread.

This

[Onyx Jaguar]

GodWood wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
I agree that party banter in ME1 was cool.  Even if each character only had a few lines in each area... I liked it.  

They should look to Dragon Age Origins for inspiration when it comes to party banter, not ME1.

yep

[Spartas Husky]

Wow.... Bioware has really gone down in the world... at least the ME team.



M3h... doesn't surprise me that much, just another slap in the face, with all the horse poo that was stated.