887 réponses à ce sujet

[bjdbwea]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Even if it somehow magically tie or edges pass Mass Effect, with the amount of hype and advertising pumped behind it, the changes the game and catering for a mystical "new audience" was certainly not worth it.

There's of course also another benefit: By "streamlining" this game so much and cutting out so many things, they certainly saved a significant amount of development time. And time is money.

But you're right, it seems the strategy of attracting that precious new audience doesn't seem as successful as they certainly hoped. Hence a demo months after release, to show off the flashy combat?

I just hope they're not going to dumb down ME 3 even more to make the strategy work after all. That comment from Mr. Hudson isn't very encouraging though.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 04 août 2010 - 06:34 .

[IrishSpectre257]

They said they aren't going to reinvent it. They didn't say they weren't going to improve it. Wasn't one of the main goals for ME3 richer RPG elements, according to Christina Norman?

[Whatever42]

Burdokva wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

In ME1, after I arrived on the citadel, I only had a few missions available to me until I talke with the council. Then I had to accomplish a few more before I could speak with them again and open up the rest of the missions. Then, after accomplishing the 4 main missions, it sparked a story event which allowed you to being the ending sequence.

In ME2, I had to complete one mission before getting my ship, recruit 4 people to create a story event and open up the rest of the game. Then, I had to complete a set number of missions (but no particular ones) to cause the story event that opens up the ending sequence.

If anything, ME2 is less linear than ME1.

Yes, but those 4 people are always pre-determined, on every playthrough. If all recruitment options (maybe Legion excluded, for obvious reasons) were open immediately after Freedom's Progress and the main quest missions trigger after acquiring a set number of randomly recruited people, I would have agreed. Better yet, make a plot hook:

- if Mordin recruited - Horizon triggers
- if Mordin not yet recruited - trigger Collector ship

This would have, without much (if any; pretty much everything works with a random recruit order with save editor tweaks) redesigns of the game have allowed for much more freedom for the player. Or you don't agree?

The 4 missions to open up Ilos were pre-determined. You had no choice but to play them. I also had to deal with Fist and save Tali before opening up the game. ME2 has no such restriction. You can open up the final sequence by doing any missions.

Its the same structure with a little variation. Its also the same as every other Bioware game ever. Its fine to argue that you want a more open world but don't pretend ME2 is different than ME1 or DA:O. Or KOTOR.

You sound like Captain Renault in while in the casino at Rick's place in Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! "

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 04 août 2010 - 06:37 .

[Shotokanguy]

I kind of find it funny when I think of the melodramatic ME2 haters, because chances are they care more about things like items and story than the combat...



But the thing is, if they get their way and the combat isn't given enough attention, ME3 will suffer for it. There's still so many improvements I think they could make, and it's probably more important that they improve things like taking cover over an inventory system.

[ArcanistLibram]

Mass Effect 1 and 2 are both incredibly linear games. You're told exactly where to go, what to do and you have at most two options as to how you can do it.



If you want non-linear gameplay, go play Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. BG1 gives you a general direction and your actions drive the plot from there. BG2 gives you a rough goal and you decide how you want to accomplish it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah BG1 is really nonlineary. While the story isnt (and this is a plus) how the game actual plays is quite nonlinear.

[Chala]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

They said they aren't going to reinvent it. They didn't say they weren't going to improve it. Wasn't one of the main goals for ME3 richer RPG elements, according to Christina Norman?

she talks about improvement en the rpg elements, not reinvent it

[Bryy_Miller]

[quote]Burdokva wrote...

- no inventory[/quote]

The inventory system in ME1 was a pain in the ass.

[quote]
- no weapon customization (what's mr.Hudson speaking about customizable weapons?)[/quote]

Again, picking and choosing in the inventory screen was a pain in the ass.

[quote]
- barely any skill tree and progression[/quote]

It was extremely hard to make your choices, thus creating a far more strategic planning session.

[quote]
- dumbed-down combat mechanic (no cooldowns? ammo clips?)[/quote]

Cooldowns added nothing to the gameplay. I had to conserve ammo with Thermal Clips.
 
[/quote]

[Ragnarok521]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I kind of find it funny when I think of the melodramatic ME2 haters, because chances are they care more about things like items and story than the combat...

I'm sorry, but come on. Being an RPG, story should be way up there on the priority list. I might have just misinterpreted your post though.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I'm quite fine with ME2's mechanics as stated but as long as they improve the story elements even more so that ME3 will be for me by the best episode of the trilogy.

[Spartas Husky]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

They said they aren't going to reinvent it. They didn't say they weren't going to improve it. Wasn't one of the main goals for ME3 richer RPG elements, according to Christina Norman?

RPG is a touchy genre... you can't have massive exploration without being able to haul some loot.. or being able to acquiere alot of loot without anywhere to actually get it from... UNlike Shooting. Being realistic, flashy and fast paced... RPG in my view requires alot of traits to be an RPG... "grabbing" or "concentrating" in 1 aspect coz you think is the best doesn't mean it will make up for the rest of the other aspects left out.

Is the same as saying, we love exploring and hauling items... so we are going to leave out leveling....Which is backwards to what they did, but still. They took out exploring and hauling... and improved on leveling...well they tried... and did somewhat good, I give them that.

Still the statement sounded more like a stubborn old man denying he did wrong, and will carry on with what he has now despite of everything else... does it mean the current product is bad.. not necessarily, but it would be many times better, with little effort.

Still, ONe can hope, unlike ME2 which I had this amazing sequel in mind, which  sequel for me is "improving on the previous title" not making a #2 game to stand on its own, with not much similar to its predecessor; I will approach ME3 on its own right, expect a completely different game from ME1 and ME2 despite what they claim.

Like the motto goes, think wrong and you'll be right. If is completely different because they had another bad hair day I'll be impressed... if is actually a sequel because it improves on the previous title, unlike ME2 was... then I'll be pleasantly surprise.

[Aradace]

As long as there isnt a giant WTF ending at the end of ME3, I'll be happy lol

[KainrycKarr]

Burdokva wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
VGchartz is very unreliable. For one, ME2 lacks the Japan sales. VGchartz doesn't have correct numbers. ME2 has been out for about 6 months. ME1 has been out for 3 years

You could be right, but that's the only site I know with sales charts. Either way, my point was that ME2 didn't sell better than the first. Even if you take the Japanese sales (although in their chart there were sales statistics from Japan) how many more copies do you think ME2 sold? Enough to tie? Again, no PC sales, but the original did very good on the PC - enough to port it after being exclusive, and it was actually improved in some respects. I know people who waited for the inevitable PC (I did) or bought it too as their main one.

EA wanted to turn ME into the next huge TPS franchise with sales in to the tens of million by dumbing it down for the teens, and what happened? They managed to alienate a lot of mans, making them potential, instead of pre-order customers for ME3.

Dude, ME2 has only been out for six months.

[Aradace]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Burdokva wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
VGchartz is very unreliable. For one, ME2 lacks the Japan sales. VGchartz doesn't have correct numbers. ME2 has been out for about 6 months. ME1 has been out for 3 years

You could be right, but that's the only site I know with sales charts. Either way, my point was that ME2 didn't sell better than the first. Even if you take the Japanese sales (although in their chart there were sales statistics from Japan) how many more copies do you think ME2 sold? Enough to tie? Again, no PC sales, but the original did very good on the PC - enough to port it after being exclusive, and it was actually improved in some respects. I know people who waited for the inevitable PC (I did) or bought it too as their main one.

EA wanted to turn ME into the next huge TPS franchise with sales in to the tens of million by dumbing it down for the teens, and what happened? They managed to alienate a lot of mans, making them potential, instead of pre-order customers for ME3.

Dude, ME2 has only been out for six months.

Pushing 7 months

[WilliamShatner]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Burdokva wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
VGchartz is very unreliable. For one, ME2 lacks the Japan sales. VGchartz doesn't have correct numbers. ME2 has been out for about 6 months. ME1 has been out for 3 years

You could be right, but that's the only site I know with sales charts. Either way, my point was that ME2 didn't sell better than the first. Even if you take the Japanese sales (although in their chart there were sales statistics from Japan) how many more copies do you think ME2 sold? Enough to tie? Again, no PC sales, but the original did very good on the PC - enough to port it after being exclusive, and it was actually improved in some respects. I know people who waited for the inevitable PC (I did) or bought it too as their main one.

EA wanted to turn ME into the next huge TPS franchise with sales in to the tens of million by dumbing it down for the teens, and what happened? They managed to alienate a lot of mans, making them potential, instead of pre-order customers for ME3.

Dude, ME2 has only been out for six months.

And it's not selling significant numbers anymore. 

[KainrycKarr]

WilliamShatner wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Burdokva wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
VGchartz is very unreliable. For one, ME2 lacks the Japan sales. VGchartz doesn't have correct numbers. ME2 has been out for about 6 months. ME1 has been out for 3 years

You could be right, but that's the only site I know with sales charts. Either way, my point was that ME2 didn't sell better than the first. Even if you take the Japanese sales (although in their chart there were sales statistics from Japan) how many more copies do you think ME2 sold? Enough to tie? Again, no PC sales, but the original did very good on the PC - enough to port it after being exclusive, and it was actually improved in some respects. I know people who waited for the inevitable PC (I did) or bought it too as their main one.

EA wanted to turn ME into the next huge TPS franchise with sales in to the tens of million by dumbing it down for the teens, and what happened? They managed to alienate a lot of mans, making them potential, instead of pre-order customers for ME3.

Dude, ME2 has only been out for six months.

And it's not selling significant numbers anymore. 

Source?

[theelementslayer]

WilliamShatner wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Burdokva wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
VGchartz is very unreliable. For one, ME2 lacks the Japan sales. VGchartz doesn't have correct numbers. ME2 has been out for about 6 months. ME1 has been out for 3 years

You could be right, but that's the only site I know with sales charts. Either way, my point was that ME2 didn't sell better than the first. Even if you take the Japanese sales (although in their chart there were sales statistics from Japan) how many more copies do you think ME2 sold? Enough to tie? Again, no PC sales, but the original did very good on the PC - enough to port it after being exclusive, and it was actually improved in some respects. I know people who waited for the inevitable PC (I did) or bought it too as their main one.

EA wanted to turn ME into the next huge TPS franchise with sales in to the tens of million by dumbing it down for the teens, and what happened? They managed to alienate a lot of mans, making them potential, instead of pre-order customers for ME3.

Dude, ME2 has only been out for six months.

And it's not selling significant numbers anymore. 

ME1 had good sales, yes, but its been out for 2 years, and 7 months. Plus I can think of alot of people who bought ME1 just before playing ME2 ( I did this) and that gave a nice jump to sales. This will happen again for ME2 right before ME3.

Plus, as most people say, with EA being such a cash cow, why would they keep the same formula if its selling less? makes no sense right? But they are keeping it so something had to have happened to keep them doing this.

Thirdly ME1 was sold in a period of economic boom, just before the recession. This might have a reason to do with it. People dont have the excess money they used to. Furthermore look at the reviews, people will continue to buy this game. I can see it edging past ME1 sales easily.

[Spartas Husky]

Aradace wrote...

As long as there isnt a giant WTF ending at the end of ME3, I'll be happy lol

plz... dont ... I already have enough fears about the trilogy as it is lol.

[Aradace]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Aradace wrote...

As long as there isnt a giant WTF ending at the end of ME3, I'll be happy lol

plz... dont ... I already have enough fears about the trilogy as it is lol.

lol Alpha Protocol ending anyone?

[hex23]

Burdokva wrote...

Just checked VGChartz, and by week 20:

Mass Effect total sales (Xbox360) - 2,25 million
Mass Effect 2 total sales (Xbox360) - 1,86 million

That's without the PC sales, and disregarding the fact that there was a slight boost of Mass Effect (1) sales after the sequel launched.

And vocal... are you kidding me? It's exactly because on the old forum RPG players stayed quiet and civilized, while a shooter group cried out loudly, that we got a Gears of War clone. Not this time, if it stays a shooter, BioWare gets 72$ less from me.

For about the billionth time, VGchartz isn't accurate. For either game.www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/06/why-we-dont-ref/

Modifié par hex23, 04 août 2010 - 07:46 .

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

...

"Numerically,
it's over 1,000 variables that we'll have access to for shaping the MassEffect 3 experience for people who've played the previous games."


"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration, intense combat, a deep and non-linear story that'saffected by your actions, and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance...

...

1. Yay! That means I can expect up to 1000 less-then-10-second radio messages in Mass Effect 3!

2. There's only one thing I've got to say: Lies. (Did they even play their own game?!)

[Shotokanguy]

Ragnarok521 wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

I kind of find it funny when I think of the melodramatic ME2 haters, because chances are they care more about things like items and story than the combat...

I'm sorry, but come on. Being an RPG, story should be way up there on the priority list. I might have just misinterpreted your post though.

Yeah, I'm not saying story isn't important, (anything story related is my only complaint with ME2) just that the people who seemed to HATE the sequel probably place it above making the combat more fun and action packed, but asking for improvements in a narrative isn't the same as asking for improvements in how the game works. Something like combat is something we, the fans, have more control over.

[hex23]

WilliamShatner wrote...

It's more reliable than you are just saying "ME2 outsold ME1" without any numbers to back it up.

ME2 is done.  It had a big opening week due to the popularity of Mass Effect and then it fell like a rock.  It's not in the charts anymore.  It's selling less than 10,000 WW a week.

Even if it somehow magically tie or edges pass Mass Effect, with the amount of hype and advertising pumped behind it, the changes the game and catering for a mystical "new audience" was certainly not worth it.

VGchartz is so inaccurate you might as well make the numbers up. Even using the numbers they present, "ME1" is at 2.25 million after 3 years. "ME2" sold about 80% of that in 6 months. Realisticaly "ME1" is done selling, "ME2" isn't.

Let's be honest here, you want "ME1" to outsell "ME2" so you can feel vindicated with what you're saying. But it's not realistic, at all. In 6 months "ME2" nearly sold what "ME1" did in 3 years, and it's more critically acclaimed on top of that. So no....they aren't going back to the way things were. Not worth it according to you, which is obivously in the minority on the subject.

[hex23]

Oh and 1 more thing. People seem to forget "ME1" had the benefit of coming out during the holiday season. "ME2" came out in January, arguably the slowest time of the year for game sales.



So....stop it. Just stop it. You can dislike "ME2", prefer "ME1", whatever but stop using ridiculous excuses why "ME2" is a failure compared to the first game. It's not....its far more of a success on every level. It doesn't mean you have to like it, but that's reality.

[PsyrenY]

Concerning thermal clips, I'd like a hybrid form of play - your gun has thermal clips, allowing for continuous fire, but when you run out you return to the ME1 style of letting your guns cool down between bursts.



Reasons:

- We're already sitting down doing nothing while waiting for our shields to come back up, so we might as well have the option of cooling empty guns off too.

- It makes sense in-universe: no random thermal clips in Collector ships (why do they even have any?) and no guns that stay hot even while not being fired (zero entropy???)

- It lets Soldiers actually keep contributing to a fight when they run out of clips, thus allowing Bioware the freedom of designing more frantic, low-ammo fights without imbalancing the classes.