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[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Juromaro wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...
]

Could you elaborate on the character development (skill-wise) and exploration that sticked out in Mass Effect 2? I seemed to miss it.

Didn't say anything about character development nor exploration in ME1 or ME2, I said it about what tabletop pen and paper rpg's were mostly about.


ME1 and ME2 had the same exploration, only difference was in the details both were still a linear path except ME2's galaxy map was loads better.


ME2's skills were better in my opinion, they were short sweet and to the point, rather than alot of +12% damage x4 nodes then 1 "Unlock Shotgun" they gave each class the weapons they were meant to use. and put in the skills that mattered most to the class you were playing....except soldier didn't like all the ammo types all that much.

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

[CatatonicMan]

Sigh.



I weep for the ME that is now dead and gone.

[Whatever42]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

ME1 and ME2 are equally as linear - or non-linear if you want to compare it to a JRPG. Describe to me an example of how ME1 is non-linear compared to ME2.

[theelementslayer]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

ME1 and ME2 are equally as linear - or non-linear if you want to compare it to a JRPG. Describe to me an example of how ME1 is non-linear compared to ME2.

Because you got to drive around for hours on retextured planets.
Honestly though the one theyll probably pull up is major kyle. You can kill everyone or not kill everyone. The only one that seemed that way

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

ME1 and ME2 are equally as linear - or non-linear if you want to compare it to a JRPG. Describe to me an example of how ME1 is non-linear compared to ME2.

It's the other way around. Mass Effect 2 is liniar whereas Mass Effect 1 is not (in my opinion). Name me one side-mission that rewards you with something major in terms of leveling, loot or money in Mass Effect 2.

[Bom_diggidy_Wrex]

CatatonicMan wrote...

Sigh.

I weep for the ME that is now dead and gone.

No one cares for your weeping!

ME2 is better in everyway and if you disagree your opinion is WRONG!

[Bom_diggidy_Wrex]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

ME1 and ME2 are equally as linear - or non-linear if you want to compare it to a JRPG. Describe to me an example of how ME1 is non-linear compared to ME2.

It's the other way around. Mass Effect 2 is liniar whereas Mass Effect 1 is not (in my opinion). Name me one side-mission that rewards you with something major in terms of leveling, loot or money in Mass Effect 2.

Loyalty missions

[theelementslayer]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

ME1 and ME2 are equally as linear - or non-linear if you want to compare it to a JRPG. Describe to me an example of how ME1 is non-linear compared to ME2.

It's the other way around. Mass Effect 2 is liniar whereas Mass Effect 1 is not (in my opinion). Name me one side-mission that rewards you with something major in terms of leveling, loot or money in Mass Effect 2.

Since when does loot have anything to do with linearity. Look at FFXIII, theres your answer, nothing at all

[Whatever42]

theelementslayer wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

In what way exactly was Mass Effect 1 so linear? Of course, everyone is left to play the game the way they want to, but I have done plenty of side quests that weren't just "go from point A to B" like in Mass Effect 2. They also gave me quite some money and experience - plus loot, of course.

ME1 and ME2 are equally as linear - or non-linear if you want to compare it to a JRPG. Describe to me an example of how ME1 is non-linear compared to ME2.

Because you got to drive around for hours on retextured planets.
Honestly though the one theyll probably pull up is major kyle. You can kill everyone or not kill everyone. The only one that seemed that way

ME2 has a similar moment in a loyalty quest where you can choose to end it in killing or not (guess which one!). So far, I've only ever heard of one minor example of a forked path in a quest where I couldn't point to a direct parallel.

But I completely agree with you. The big, empty citadel and the empty square kilometer patch of nothing on the planets somehow gave some people an illusion of non-linearity. However, when asked to justify it, they simply can't.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 04 août 2010 - 11:31 .

[hex23]

WilliamShatner wrote...


Well if VGchartz is inaccurate then the rest of your post is null and void, unless you have a magical little elf who tells you the accurate figures you're getting.

""ME2" sold about 80% of that in 6 months."

And once again, it sold 50% of its total so far in its first week.  That is pathetic and indictative of a failure to expand the game beyond its fanbase.  It is out of the charts.  It is selling less than 10,000 copies a week worldwide. 

In comparison, Modern Warfare 2, one of the most hyped games of all time breaking opening records only sold around 33% of its total sales in its first week.  And it's STILL IN THE CHARTS despite coming out months before Mass Effect 2.

Whether or not ME2 surpasses Mass Effect  in the end is not the point, the point is that it hasn't sold significantly more to justify the whoring out to a mystical, perhaps imaginary "new audience".

You're the only referencing VG, not me. I just pointed out using your source (not mine) that in 6 months "ME2" sold 80% of what "ME1" sold in 3 years. Most games sell 50% of their total in the first week. Are you new to video games or something, because this is completely normal. Likewise most games aren't on the charts 6 months after they come out....so what's your point?

Also, where are you pulling these "it's selling less than 10k a week claims" from? VG? It's not accurate, remember?

You have zero proof it hasn't sold better than "ME1" because the only source you're referencing isn't accurate. So please, either give me some kinda accurate info or stop quoting sales figures.

Just for the sake of argument let's completely throw out sales figures since there is no concrete info. "ME2" received a lot more critical acclaim and praise than "ME1". That alone is reason enough for "whoring themselves out to an imaginary new audience". You can word it as dramatically as you want to, Bioware has no reason to listen to you.

Lastly, to compare any game to "MW2" is retarded. It sold 4 million copies in 24 hours. It's not the norm so why compare anything to it? That's like saying a movie isn't a success because it didn't do as well as "Avatar".

It's obvious Bioware will stick to the "ME2" style of game design so I don't get the constant whining. It's basically a done deal at this point. I don't even come to this board that often, and it's always the same 5-6 guys crying about going back to the "good old days of ME1" while downplaying the success of "ME2". It was old 4 months ago, it's just silly now.

Modifié par hex23, 04 août 2010 - 11:41 .

[AllenShepard]

kraidy1117 wrote...

AllenShepard wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

AllenShepard wrote...

"rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance.."



My Krogan ass. That's a blatant lie. Come on, Bioware.

The only lie is the weapon part, the armour was more cusomizable in ME2, just needs work and Shepards apprance can be customized more in ME2.

To call the customization on ME2 "rich" is a lie. It was substandard at best. Swapping colors and couple of different armor pieces aint nothing. 

It was more rich then the system in ME.

I'm not comparing them. ME2's was ****ty so yes by default ME's was ****ty. Doesn't change the fact that ME2's still sucked.

[-Skorpious-]

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

[PsyrenY]

theelementslayer wrote...

Since when does loot have anything to do with linearity. Look at FFXIII, theres your answer, nothing at all

This.

[Bluko]

Hmm this article isn't exactly what I'd call informative. It's basically just Casey bragging about how good the game reviews for ME2 were again. The reviews for ME2 are only a tad better then ME1, and sales haven't been much different either.  Also I'm guessing ME1 reviews in general weren't as good due to the number of technical issues like texture pop-in (which even ME2 still has some).However what little was said isn't exactly reassuring to me for ME3...

"Numerically, it's over 1,000 variables
that we'll have access to for shaping the Mass Effect 3 experience for
people who've played the previous games."

1,000 variables sounds impressive, and true there is a lot to take in account from each game. However how many actual in-game consequences will there be? Also please stop with the email crap in ME3 to account for all the various stuff that can happen. They're pointless. I don't play Mass Effect to read emails, I play to interact with characters. What was the point of Corporal Toombs emailing me? It changed nothing as there was never any sort interaction or meaningful consequence to be had in ME2 with regards to Toombs being alive. It would have been better if there had just been no email at all. The emails are nice gesture, but I really think they are a waste of time both for the Developers and Players.

"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we
love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration, intense combat, a deep
and non-linear story that's affected by your actions, and rich
customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance..."

Umm what sense of exploration? None of actual the environments gave much much room for "exploration". They were also all fairly linear. ME1 was mostly linear as well, but at least there were a few times when you had branching paths allowing you take different routes. And while the UNC worlds were very drab and had lots of copy and paste at least they gave you the chance to free roam a large environment. I can't be alone in wanting this stuff to return. What I don't get is why people oppose it. Wouldn't it be great to have the big open free roam environments with lots of scenery and varied stuff to interact with? I'm not asking it to be like ME1, I'm asking it for to be improved from ME1. Instead ME2 just scraped the concept away which was probably for the worse, even if side missions were more "varied".

Now you could say there was lots of exploration in sense that you can go to a lot of worlds. True you can visit a lot of worlds in the game, but the thing is your mostly confined to a small starport/mall for the hub planets and all the other planets just involve a 5 minute run through some random Merc base. Maybe you consider that exploration, but I don't.

I'd also say the story is fairly linear. True you can choose what Character missions to do, but everyone is forced to do the same Collector Missions in the same order. There are no different mission paths you can take say like in a game like Starfox 64, so I'd say Mass Effect 2 is fairly linear that way. You can end missions with different outcomes that is true, but that's about it. Which is cool and all, but it's still a linear story/game in my books. Honestly though I prefer linear games most of the time, since most non-linear games lack any kind of deep story which is the main interest of Mass Effect to begin with.

There is a good amount of character and armor customization in ME2. I have no problems with these features as they are in ME2. But come on there isn't any weapons customization in ME2... I'm hoping ME3 will let us add our own unique upgrades to weapons thie time. Say that I can actually choose between making my said rifle of choice more accurate or having say a larger clip. That's weapons customization. I'm not asking for ME1's inventory, although having some form of an inventory system would be nice. At the very least make the whole "armory" thing a bit more informative instead of just a list of guns. Like it'd be nice to know at the very least the actual clip sizes of the weapons I'm about to pick.

"We had
an overwhelmingly positive response to this approach, and while we'll
make further adjustments to it for Mass Effect 3, we're really happy
with how it's been received so far."

While I'd say as whole ME2 is probably a better game then ME1, there is still room for improvement. Also ME1 certainly did do some things better. Hopefully Bioware is aware of this and I hope that's partly what meant by the last statement. Just please Bioware don't get arrogant thinking ME2's gameplay was perfect and simply re-do it for ME3. There are a number of things that could have been better and I hope you guys are taking the time still to look at our feedback. Both ME1 and ME2 deserve praise, but they both have their faults.  It's my sincere hope that you guys find a sort of balance between ME1's and ME2's best gameplay elements and that is what ultimately Mass Effect 3 will be.

But if you guys just rehash ME2's entire system don't be surprised if there's a lot of disappointment.

[BeastMTL]

-Skorpious- wrote...

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

Agreed.

[Zweebs]

-Skorpious- wrote...

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

If you couldn't even enjoy the character content in ME2... what would satisfy you? 

I also think it's safe to say the story in ME3 will be much better, It's pretty much a given!

[CatatonicMan]

Zweebs wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

If you couldn't even enjoy the character content in ME2... what would satisfy you? 

I also think it's safe to say the story in ME3 will be much better, It's pretty much a given!

Yeah, it'd be kinda hard not to top the story in ME2.

[Iakus]

-Skorpious- wrote...

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

This.  100% this.

Modifié par iakus, 05 août 2010 - 01:07 .

[-Skorpious-]

Zweebs wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

If you couldn't even enjoy the character content in ME2... what would satisfy you? 

I also think it's safe to say the story in ME3 will be much better, It's pretty much a given!

My original post failed to submit, so I'll provide an abridged version - ME3 needs a DAO party banter system to make me feel happy in the character department of this series. For the most part, the crew were mutes in ME2.

[The Interloper]

I think ME2 got it just right on the blend of RPG/shooter, emphasis shooter. That's great, but I would like emphasis on RPG in the future. ME1 was actually closer to this, but it was pretty rough edged.



As for the story, ME2 seemed more like a build up to ME3 than a stand alone story. Maybe that's why it seems insufficient on its own.

[MassEffect762]

bjdbwea wrote...

In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome sense of exploration,

Really? And here I thought all exploration had been cut out in ME 2, in favor of convenient and completeley linear levels.

intense combat,

Perhaps. If you call repetitive cover-shoot-cover-shoot sequences "intense".

a deep and non-linear story that's affected by your actions,

And here I thought most of your choices were reduced to emails, and not even saving or sacrificing the council made any difference. Deep and non-linear too? Hmm... wait, I get it! Someone has to have made a mistake! He is the only one who actually played ME 2 - they released the wrong game to the public! Of course!

and rich customisation of your armour, weapons and appearance...

Right. That's why we're stuck with one kind of armor and a few DLC armors, as well as a handful of weapons that can't be modded anymore. That's also why we have to use mods to equip the numerous armors and clothes that are in the game, but normally unusable.

If that is indeed what Casey said I have to believe he's full of it. You Spin it Casey! Spin it good!!

Whatever works for you Bioware but don't B.S. me.

[SilasWolfe]

THIS JUST IN! Bioware will continue making games I eagerly anticipate and always end up enjoying immensely!



More at 11.

[Iakus]

The Interloper wrote...

I think ME2 got it just right on the blend of RPG/shooter, emphasis shooter. That's great, but I would like emphasis on RPG in the future. ME1 was actually closer to this, but it was pretty rough edged.

As for the story, ME2 seemed more like a build up to ME3 than a stand alone story. Maybe that's why it seems insufficient on its own.

Except ME 3 is supposed to me a standalone story too.  If ME 1 built up to ME 2 which built up to ME 3 that would be distilled awsome.  Instead we're getting origin stories over and over again.

[The Interloper]

iakus wrote...

Except ME 3 is supposed to me a standalone story too.  If ME 1 built up to ME 2 which built up to ME 3 that would be distilled awsome.  Instead we're getting origin stories over and over again.

I'm not saying that it was good, I'm just saying I think that's what they intended. Especially since there's no definate ending and you just sit around after the epilogue. Here's hoping for some post-game DLC to close the plot better.