887 réponses à ce sujet

[incinerator950]

Oh look, it's the same argument from a few dozen topics.

[-Skorpious-]

SilasWolfe wrote...

THIS JUST IN! Bioware will continue making games I eagerly anticipate and always end up enjoying immensely!

More at 11.

We are not complaining for the sake of complaining.; we care about both Mass Effect and Bioware and would like to positively influence (however little) the outcome of of a series we care about. Harsh criticism is usually the best criticism. 

[MassEffect762]

-Skorpious- wrote...

The absence of traditional rpg mechanics didn't bother me all that much (when I say traditional I mean stats, gear, ect). Would I like to see more in ME3? Of course. What really irritated me though was the utter lack of story/character content. I can't go into details due to the nature of this thread, but Bioware has some serious work to do if they want to end the Shepard/Reaper storyline on an interesting and plausible note.

NAILED IT!

They could have really spared themselves so much  criticism had they done more with the story.

Combat Mechanics, RPG Mechanics and Story. Imo the first is incomplete and the last two are weak.

IMO.(incase you fail to see that)

[Whatever42]

Such bitterness. The problems with your harsh criticism is 1) you're clearly a small minority and 2) by wildly insulting and attacking everything about the game and even the company, you have no credibility as a real fan simply suggesting improvements. If ME is so bloody awful, as some of you suggest, then go play another game.

You won't, of course, because those of you who aren't trolling for a reaction, are strangely obsessed with lurking on the forums of a game you detest.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 05 août 2010 - 01:49 .

[MassEffect762]

^ If your reaction is towards me, who are you to me? Answer: No one.



Your opinion is no more important than that of anyone else here.

[-Skorpious-]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Such bitterness. The problems with your harsh criticism is 1) you're clearly a small minority and 2) by wildly insulting and attacking everything about the game and even the company, you have no credibility as a real fan simply suggesting improvements. If ME is so bloody awful, as some of you suggest, then go play another game.

You won't, of course, because those of you who aren't trolling for a reaction, are strangely obsessed with lurking on the forums of a game you detest.

Read my previous post. I cannot speak for all of us in the "minority" but some of us are simply suggesting improvements to a series we love. Is Bioware going to obey are every whim? No. But if we can civilly discuss changes we would like to see implemented, then who are we bothering?

We are simply offering, as a consumer of their products, criticism to make the end product a more desirable purchase. Some may disagree, but we all have are own opinions (besides, isn't that what the forums are for? to discuss Bioware games?)

[Whatever42]

Wasn't directed specifically to you, no. But it clearly encompasses you. I'm simply expressing my bemusement of your obvious bitterness and your need to lurk on the forums of a game you plainly dislike so much. You clearly do not have to respond to me so please feel free to ignore me. You won't hurt my feelings.

[-Skorpious-]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Wasn't directed specifically to you, no. But it clearly encompasses you. I'm simply expressing my bemusement of your obvious bitterness and your need to lurk on the forums of a game you plainly dislike so much. You clearly do not have to respond to me so please feel free to ignore me. You won't hurt my feelings.

We do so because we, like you, like the series. We want the next installment to be better than the last. 

[The Interloper]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Such bitterness. The problems with your harsh criticism is 1) you're clearly a small minority and 2) by wildly insulting and attacking everything about the game and even the company, you have no credibility as a real fan simply suggesting improvements. If ME is so bloody awful, as some of you suggest, then go play another game.

You won't, of course, because those of you who aren't trolling for a reaction, are strangely obsessed with lurking on the forums of a game you detest.

It's called nitpicking. Granted, ME2's story was pretty solid, and to a certain extent I'm tempted to say "Aw, shaddup and play. It's good" But people expect great things from Bioware, and they've delivered in the past, so if anyone should be able to make a story near flawless, Bioware is at least a top candidate. And ME2 fell a bit short of the mark (which in BWs case is pretty high) in the cinematic section.

Personally, I think adding maybe just two more main quest missions, and maybe adding some sidequest arcs that tie in to the main quest but aren't neccessary (such as investigaing the collectors or their contacts, etc)making the illusive man and Harbinger more involved and antagonistic, and a few other touches to make it flow better, rather than seeming like a bunch of seperate episodes that coincidentally occur in proximity to each other, would have done it.

Modifié par The Interloper, 05 août 2010 - 02:12 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

"Ifyou define an RPG as a game where you equip your hero by sifting
through an inventory of hundreds of miscellaneous items and spend hours
fiddling with numerical statistics, then Mass Effect 2 isn't one,"



"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome
sense of exploration, intense combat, a deep and non-linear story
that'saffected by your actions, and rich customisation of your armour,
weapons and appearance..."

THANK YOU Casey Hudson. This guy understands me.

[Pocketgb]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Wasn't directed specifically to you, no. But it clearly encompasses you. I'm simply expressing my bemusement of your obvious bitterness and your need to lurk on the forums of a game you plainly dislike so much. You clearly do not have to respond to me so please feel free to ignore me. You won't hurt my feelings.

We do so because we, like you, like the series. We want the next installment to be better than the last. 

Hm, I should actually probably link to Iakus' stuff, too. Brb.

[MassEffect762]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Wasn't directed specifically to you, no. But it clearly encompasses you. I'm simply expressing my bemusement of your obvious bitterness and your need to lurk on the forums of a game you plainly dislike so much. You clearly do not have to respond to me so please feel free to ignore me. You won't hurt my feelings.

Live and let live. Same arguments you "happy" fans use on us "disappointed" fans can be turned on you.

Quote: "Only the minority of the whiners are on the forums complaining, the majority is too busy playing"

So go play, see what I did there. Just because group A(happy) liked ME2 more than group B(dissapointed) doesn't automatically discount our opinions as consumers.

I'm giving them(Bioware) my opinion of the game, I could care less what anyone else here thinks about it.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 05 août 2010 - 02:20 .

[Whatever42]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Such bitterness. The problems with your harsh criticism is 1) you're clearly a small minority and 2) by wildly insulting and attacking everything about the game and even the company, you have no credibility as a real fan simply suggesting improvements. If ME is so bloody awful, as some of you suggest, then go play another game.

You won't, of course, because those of you who aren't trolling for a reaction, are strangely obsessed with lurking on the forums of a game you detest.

Read my previous post. I cannot speak for all of us in the "minority" but some of us are simply suggesting improvements to a series we love. Is Bioware going to obey are every whim? No. But if we can civilly discuss changes we would like to see implemented, then who are we bothering?

We are simply offering, as a consumer of their products, criticism to make the end product a more desirable purchase. Some may disagree, but we all have are own opinions (besides, isn't that what the forums are for? to discuss Bioware games?)

Oh, I have criticized the game and I don't begrudge anyone for doing so. I have many areas I would like to see improvements in. I am entirely on board with you there. I posted my list earlier in this thread. And I would love to have a discussion about what Bioware could do with a more open world. I would love greater party chatter and deeper dialogue trees. Unfortunately, so many people have such a bitter, negative tone that its almost impossible to have a discussion with them.

And my comment wasn't directed at you specifically, although i did pick up that your feeling that being "harsh" was necessary. If someone has suggestions then they should make them. But so many people on this forum bitterly attack the game, not merely offer constructive criticism. Do people really think they need to be insulting for Bioware to listen to them? Or is it just cool to be nasty and cynical?

Saying that the story is crap, the characters are crap and the gameplay is crap is not useful discussion. And I have to question that if the game is so far from enjoyable for them, then why do they lurk here? Did they really think Bioware is going to take one of the highest rated games in history and turn it into DA: ME? 

[-Skorpious-]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Oh, I have criticized the game and I don't begrudge anyone for doing so. I have many areas I would like to see improvements in. I am entirely on board with you there. I posted my list earlier in this thread. And I would love to have a discussion about what Bioware could do with a more open world. I would love greater party chatter and deeper dialogue trees. Unfortunately, so many people have such a bitter, negative tone that its almost impossible to have a discussion with them.

And my comment wasn't directed at you specifically, although i did pick up that your feeling that being "harsh" was necessary. If someone has suggestions then they should make them. But so many people on this forum bitterly attack the game, not merely offer constructive criticism. Do people really think they need to be insulting for Bioware to listen to them? Or is it just cool to be nasty and cynical?

Saying that the story is crap, the characters are crap and the gameplay is crap is not useful discussion. And I have to question that if the game is so far from enjoyable for them, then why do they lurk here? Did they really think Bioware is going to take one of the highest rated games in history and turn it into DA: ME? 

Ok, I may have used the word harsh in a different context than you, and in hindsight, was probably a mistake. When I said harsh, I meant harsh as in not afraid to let Bioware know about the flaws/weaknesses of the game. 

And I agree that Bioware should not, and probably will not, listen to users who berate them with only insults. But if the conversation is civil, and contains positive criticism, then we should all be free to express our views of the game. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 05 août 2010 - 02:32 .

[Whatever42]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Wasn't directed specifically to you, no. But it clearly encompasses you. I'm simply expressing my bemusement of your obvious bitterness and your need to lurk on the forums of a game you plainly dislike so much. You clearly do not have to respond to me so please feel free to ignore me. You won't hurt my feelings.

Live and let live. Same arguments you "happy" fans use on us "disappointed" fans can be turned on you.

Quote: "Only the minority of the whiners are on the forums complaining, the majority is too busy playing"

So go play, see what I did there. Just because group A(happy) liked ME2 more than group B(dissapointed) doesn't automatically discount our opinions as consumers.

I'm giving them(Bioware) my opinion of the game, I could care less what anyone else here thinks about it.

You clearly do care or you wouldn't respond to me. You are quite free to express your disappointment in the game. Again and again and again. And I'm quite free to point out that its the same handful of people creating the same threads complaining about the same things. 

And I certainly don't discount your feelings as a gamer or consumer. I appreciate that you're disappointed in the game. We all have different opinions and tastes and expectations and mine are absolutely no better than yours. And yours are no better than mine. We like what we like.

The problems arise when someone comes to the forum of a game they dislike and then try to justify why the game is bad. They don't simply say they dislike the game because they prefer more hardcore RPGs. They say that the game sucks because its not a more hardcore RPG. And then they foolishly try to rationalize that to people who really enjoyed the game.

I think they do that because of cognitive dissonance. If the game does not meet their expectations then clearly the game is bad, not their expectations. This is a common phenomenon and fairly well understood so I probably shouldn't get too uptight about it. But sometimes I do. 

 

[Pocketgb]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Ok, I may have used the word harsh in a different context than you, and in hindsight, was probably a mistake. When I said harsh, I meant harsh as in not afraid to let Bioware know about the flaws/weaknesses of the game. 

And I agree that Bioware should not, and probably will not, listen to users who berate them with only insults. But if the conversation is civil, and contains positive criticism, then we should all be free to express our views of the game. 

I have no problem with this. It's arguments and claims with no basis that bother me, which is what's been happening ad nauseam in the 'disappointment' thread.

A lot of us do want to see ME2 improved, because why wouldn't we want to see something we like made even *better?*

[Whatever42]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Oh, I have criticized the game and I don't begrudge anyone for doing so. I have many areas I would like to see improvements in. I am entirely on board with you there. I posted my list earlier in this thread. And I would love to have a discussion about what Bioware could do with a more open world. I would love greater party chatter and deeper dialogue trees. Unfortunately, so many people have such a bitter, negative tone that its almost impossible to have a discussion with them.

And my comment wasn't directed at you specifically, although i did pick up that your feeling that being "harsh" was necessary. If someone has suggestions then they should make them. But so many people on this forum bitterly attack the game, not merely offer constructive criticism. Do people really think they need to be insulting for Bioware to listen to them? Or is it just cool to be nasty and cynical?

Saying that the story is crap, the characters are crap and the gameplay is crap is not useful discussion. And I have to question that if the game is so far from enjoyable for them, then why do they lurk here? Did they really think Bioware is going to take one of the highest rated games in history and turn it into DA: ME? 

Ok, I may have used the word harsh in a different context than you, and in hindsight, was probably a mistake. When I said harsh, I meant harsh as in not afraid to let Bioware know about the flaws/weaknesses of the game. 

And I agree that Bioware should not, and probably will not, listen to users who berate them with only insults. But if the conversation is civil, and contains positive criticism, then we should all be free to express our views of the game. 

My apologies then. I shouldn't have dragged your words into my little rant without reading them more carefully. I completely agree with you.

[Iakus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Saying that the story is crap, the characters are crap and the gameplay is crap is not useful discussion. And I have to question that if the game is so far from enjoyable for them, then why do they lurk here? Did they really think Bioware is going to take one of the highest rated games in history and turn it into DA: ME? 

DA: ME.  Nice going, you got me drooling.

The only real reasons I post here is because a)  I really like ME 1 (despite it's flaws), Up until now, Bioware has never disappointed me,  and c) there's going to be a ME 3.  Put these three together, and I feel pretty much obligated to make my disappointment known and why.  Saying something is "crap" and leaving it at that accomplishes nothing.  I say where I think Bioware went wrong.  Whether anyone pays attention or not, who knows?  But at least I tried.

And while I may be in a minority, I suspect it's not a tiny one. 

[Pocketgb]

iakus wrote...

And while I may be in a minority, I suspect it's not a tiny one. 

A hundred people saying that they want something is nothing compared to one person explaining precisely and intricately why they shouldn't. That's where you come in, bud.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 05 août 2010 - 02:42 .

[Whatever42]

iakus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Saying that the story is crap, the characters are crap and the gameplay is crap is not useful discussion. And I have to question that if the game is so far from enjoyable for them, then why do they lurk here? Did they really think Bioware is going to take one of the highest rated games in history and turn it into DA: ME? 

DA: ME.  Nice going, you got me drooling.

The only real reasons I post here is because a)  I really like ME 1 (despite it's flaws), Up until now, Bioware has never disappointed me,  and c) there's going to be a ME 3.  Put these three together, and I feel pretty much obligated to make my disappointment known and why.  Saying something is "crap" and leaving it at that accomplishes nothing.  I say where I think Bioware went wrong.  Whether anyone pays attention or not, who knows?  But at least I tried.

And while I may be in a minority, I suspect it's not a tiny one. 

Oh, I certainly believe there are a number of hardcore RPG gamers who do not want to see Bioware move far from their tried and true formula. I'm a hardcore RPG fan who liked ME2 far more than I thought I would. I did a double take on the lack of inventory - I really did. And then after a couple hours, I liked it. 

So I understand completely that its not the game you want. And I'm perfectly fine and happy for you to state that. I think the constant back-and-forth starts in these threads, though, is when you say that Bioware is "wrong". They aren't wrong. They made the game they intended and many people enjoy it. Its simply not a game you enjoy. 

So then the fight starts and people try to defend their position about why the game is "wrong". And then things get silly.

For example, the whole linear versus non-linear debate. I can counter every point about when ME1 is not more non-linear than ME2. But that's not really the issue. In reality, ME1 had a more open feel because the levels were not so narrow and didn't lock doors behind you, letting you wander and revisit areas. I know this created a more closed in feel in ME2 - at least I felt it. If the conversation would have been approached better, this could have been a great discussion. 

Instead, we get a "ME2 sucks because its more linear than ME1".  Thats pure flamebait. I understand the frustration behind it but its flamebait. That leads to a hardening of positions and stupid back-and-forth name calling for 400 pages.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 05 août 2010 - 02:54 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Titanium Man wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...
Really it seemed a more desperate time, and faster paced. All in all I felt it was a deeper storyline told through the characters. For people who are saying there isnt a plot, there is one. Inside the characters. Talk to them and its a deep storyline.

Characters Make The Plot.

To sum it up. Character driven story.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Master Smurf wrote...

A deep NON-LINEAR story - LOL!!!! right

I just hope they make the battlefields a little more organic.

Yeah right. Everyone had the same endings in ME2, had the same decisions and the story evolve around Shepard's everyday issues.

And the Battlefield will be a lot organic in ME3. Like they were in ME1. A deep big space with nothing but some textures and lot of  squares and rectangles for cover use.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Burdokva wrote...

Mass Effect 2 is linear, even compared to its predecessor. Not completely linear, but very much so. You have a determined number of squad members that must be recruited, before opening a pre-determined main quest mission, then again recruit a fixed number of people that must all be recruited before opening the next fixed main story mission etc.

Mass Effect had four main missions which could be played in any random order and only Ilos and the Ciadel (endgame) were in a fixed order.

I brought this in another topic, which of course resulted in a flame war, but if BioWare weren't limited by the 360s disk swapping, the story could have been non-linear, with the player choosing when to recruit a squad member and when to go to a story mission. Mind you, that mostly much works even with simple save games and hex edits.

By the way, props up to Kandid001 for his signature, I fully concur!

EDIT: To Aradace:

Of, for Gods sake, here we go again - you just need to put the stupid magical name of a console limitation, just point out a fact, in an entirely different context, and an obligatory insulted fanboy jumps, explaining how hurt his feeling are and how a PC elitist started a flame war. You brought this up, besides completely missing the point of an entire post you quoted. One that was on topic, while your ain't. You sir, are a troll.

*Facepalm
Because the order you did the missions on Feros, Therum and Noveria made a HUGE difference in story progression, right?

[EatChildren]

I never looked at Mass Effect nor Mass Effect 2 as anything more than an action-RPG. If I wanted a deep, pure RPG experience I'd go back and play Fallout and Torment (and I do), because quite frankly nobody makes those kinds of RPGs anymore (BioWare included). Closest is The Witcher, and even then its out of the ballpark.



Otherwise, all I want them to do is expand the gameplay concepts of Mass Effect 2 a little more, and for the story cut down on the excessive character tangents to something a little tighter like the first game.



I loved Mass Effect, loved Mass Effect 2, and am certain to love Mass Effect 3. Haters gonna hate because there are a thousand of you with a thousand different visions for the franchise. Its exactly like Zelda fans; there will never be a Mass Effect/Zelda game that is universally appealing because somebody out there will want something else.



On another note, I'm happy to see Hudson point out that they're writing the story as they go, since some people here seem convinced they have it all planned out, or that its reasonable to have it all planned out. Of course they're writing it as they go, as that is how 99% of trilogies are written. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails. Fingers crossed.

[unluckyexponent]

PKchu wrote...

I think everyone in the world loves this game except the people on Bioware's forums.

It's unreal. I for one am extremely happy that ME3 will be like ME2 - ME2 was a great experience. I would prefer another game like ME2 compared to ME1, and I like both RPGs and FPS.

I'm all for tweaking but there's no need for 150 items and turning crap into Omni-gel.

Amen... I'm glad the Omni-gel dependent mako got scrapped. As for the 150 items that needed to be cut down yes but I think Bioware got a little out of hand by completely taking away inventory all together.  I love both ME1 & ME2 (playing both beginning to end again now btw) but I agree with most that much was lost. I killed myself playing ME1 three different ways before ME2 came out because I wanted to see the "Mass Effect" (pun intended) it would have on the story line of ME2. But what was I given? Some memorable choices carried over and the rest either via email or not addressed at all? I mean why let Fist live in ME1 if the only impact that will have in ME2 is to run into him in a bar with his tail between his legs. Shepard was dead for two years after the attack on the citadel. So you telling me Fist just stayed on the straight and narrow. I would have at least expected him to be up to no good and I would have to use him as a contact to gain access to then take down a larger bad guy (Shadow Broker maybe). I think I did him/the galaxy a favor by letting Wrex kill him in my renegade play through of ME1.