334 réponses à ce sujet

[Heavenblade]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...

If the divinity series taught me anything, it's that letting a god baby live is a very bad idea. What with them being possessed by a horrible force of darkness and torturing and exterminating humanity from the safety of their flying death fortresses.

Also, don't listen to the voices in your head.

To be fair, the awesome powers bit was probably the only thing that saved me. double-edged sword and all, especially for the voice.

[Ulicus]

They can make Morrigan's son central to the Dragon Age mythos irrespective of your choices. They can't make his having the soul of an Old God central, as he may not have it... but Morrigan doesn't need any of your characters to get knocked up and give birth. Nor does her son need the powers of an Old God to be a powerful mage, or expert chef, or whatever he winds up being.

And, we don't even know that having an Old God's soul = "powers of an Old God", anyway. Its a very reasonable assumption, but not necessarily the case. The ritual -- and by extention the soul of the old god -- was, after all, only the "means to an end".

At present, my hope is that the child becomes the "anti-Flemeth" and Thedas' answer to Merlin. Not that an Arthurian analog is necessary... I just like them.

Modifié par Ulicus, 28 novembre 2010 - 10:20 .

[nijnij]

Well, the old god baby would be nine years old by the end of Dragon Age 2 ; that seems a bit soon to find out about his/her powers ; I have the feeling that Morrigan would raise him far away from society, a bit like she was raised herself. I haven't played Witch Hunt but the

Spoiler

portal thing I've read about

definitely shows that she has no intention of coming back to Thedas before some time. I think the old god baby would be more interesting after s/he's toughened up a bit, say in Dragon Age 3 for instance ; then s/he could be the PC or villain or whatever.

[Ulicus]

nijnij wrote...

Well, the old god baby would be nine years old by the end of Dragon Age 2 ; that seems a bit soon to find out about his/her powers ; I have the feeling that Morrigan would raise him far away from society, a bit like she was raised herself. I haven't played Witch Hunt but the

Spoiler

portal thing I've read about

definitely shows that she has no intention of coming back to Thedas before some time. I think the old god baby would be more interesting after s/he's toughened up a bit, say in Dragon Age 3 for instance ; then s/he could be the PC or villain or whatever.

Just to clarify: Morrigan's child is male. People aren't just making assumptions, there. We're told the kid is a bouncing baby boy in Witch Hunt.

Well, he isn't necessarily bouncing, but he's a baby boy.

[Bootsykk]

Now here's a thought that I'm puzzled as to why people haven't considered:



God baby affects the FINAL ENDING of the game. Not the story you play itself. In the same way that whether or not you got naughty with Morrigan determined who lived and who died, the decision to kill either Ash or Kaiden in Mass Effect had a subtle but notable impact.



If DA2 is the end of the dragon age series, at least regarding this specific chain of events, then you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be several endings, each specific to the decisions made in DAO and DA2.

[nijnij]

Ulicus wrote...

nijnij wrote...

Well, the old god baby would be nine years old by the end of Dragon Age 2 ; that seems a bit soon to find out about his/her powers ; I have the feeling that Morrigan would raise him far away from society, a bit like she was raised herself. I haven't played Witch Hunt but the

Spoiler

portal thing I've read about

definitely shows that she has no intention of coming back to Thedas before some time. I think the old god baby would be more interesting after s/he's toughened up a bit, say in Dragon Age 3 for instance ; then s/he could be the PC or villain or whatever.

Just to clarify: Morrigan's child is male. People aren't just making assumptions, there. We're told the kid is a bouncing baby boy in Witch Hunt.

Well, he isn't necessarily bouncing, but he's a baby boy.

Oh interesting, than means he'll never be the PC (Bioware took away race selection, if they take away gender in the third game, somehow, I think people are gonna moan)  !

Still, my point about him being too young stays valid. I think Morrigan is smart enough to raise a kid who'd be nine  years old by the very end of DA2 without him going berserk and wanting to be part of the lore (especially considered he's safe in the portal).

Modifié par nijnij, 29 novembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Ulicus]

Oh, sure -- but I don't think anyone's saying he would have been central in DA2 given the upcoming game's timeframe.



Unless Morrigan pulled a Holtz and is raising the kid in a hell dimension where time goes faster....



I see him becoming a companion character in a future game, or otherwise a very important NPC.

[philbo1965uk]

Juneya wrote...

Now here's a thought that I'm puzzled as to why people haven't considered:

If DA2 is the end of the dragon age series, at least regarding this specific chain of events, then you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be several endings, each specific to the decisions made in DAO and DA2.

Oh it's been considered. It's just that with the abrupt  direction change if you are expecting DAO decisions to have any significant impact on future iterations you are going to be disappointed.

Bioware have been at pains to point out that DA2 is the perfect start point to join the franchise...there is no ambiguity there.

[Drake Sigar]

Just assume any inconsistencies and situations that do not compute with your original Origins ending is a case of exploring the ‘what ifs’ of alternate universes, much like the newest Star Trek movie.

[Ulicus]

Well, since Morrigan finding and going through the portal doesn't depend in any way on the Warden being involved... I really don't see how this could possibly be an issue. There is a base state that we know is canon and will almost certainly be followed up on:

"Morrigan ends up on the other side of the portal".

If your Warden didn't go through with her (whether you played the DLC or not) then he didn't go through with her. If s/he didn't stab her, then s/he didn't stab her. It's no different to whether or not she has a kid, and whether or not that kid has the soul of an old god.

Modifié par Ulicus, 29 novembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[Ulicus]

stickmanhenry wrote...

But couldn't the results of her being stabbed be drastically different to say not being stabbed?

Sure, they could.... but they won't. As far as Morrigan's character journey is concerned, were the results of refusing the ritual drastically different to going through with it? Nope. It doesn't matter what you do in DA:O, she will always end up in front of that portal, and always end up on the other side. The little things can change, the details... but the main events? Nope. Identical.

The downside of rendering every decision possible (which the vast majority wanted over a set canon, and while I disagree, I don't blame them) is that every decision must -- by extension -- be rendered unimportant (at least until the "FINAL GAME"). The really big things, the important things, the world shaking things... they'll all be things we have no real say in.

Well, at least the important things to the narrative. For an extreme example: maybe we'll be able to destroy the Chantry in DA2 ...  but, if we can, the presence or lack of the Chantry will not be important to the plots of later sequels, because BioWare can't craft the main thrust of their narratives around things that might've never happened.

Modifié par Ulicus, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[Jarlof Seoul]

Ulicus wrote...

stickmanhenry wrote...

But couldn't the results of her being stabbed be drastically different to say not being stabbed?

Sure, they could.... but they won't. As far as Morrigan's character journey is concerned, were the results of refusing the ritual drastically different to going through with it? Nope. It doesn't matter what you do in DA:O, she will always end up in front of that portal, and always end up on the other side. The little things can change, the details... but the main events? Nope. Identical.

The downside of rendering every decision possible (which the vast majority wanted over a set canon, and while I disagree, I don't blame them) is that every decision must -- by extension -- be rendered unimportant (at least until the "FINAL GAME"). The really big things, the important things, the world shaking things... they'll all be things we have no real say in.

Well, at least the important things to the narrative. For an extreme example: maybe we'll be able to destroy the Chantry in DA2 ...  but, if we can, the presence or lack of the Chantry will not be important to the plots of later sequels, because BioWare can't craft the main thrust of their narratives around things that might've never happened.

I think you are tracking. At the end of the day, no other DA character has anything on Morrigan!

[Ulicus]

Jarlof Seoul wrote...
I think you are tracking.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that.

[Sparks1987]

Well I'm sure they can think of something to put Morrigan's god baby in another sequel, wasn't Fergus a grey warden aswell? Maybe Morrigan did the nasty with him during the final battle if you rejected her, he seems to be in Denerim after the final battle so he was close at least, just some speculating here.

Modifié par Sparks1987, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Ymladdych]

Ulicus wrote...

Jarlof Seoul wrote...
I think you are tracking.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that.

"I think you understand."  A term favored by a lot of US army folk and drill sergeants ("Tracking me, private?!") - possibly other military branches, too, but I'm not sure.

[Ulicus]

Okie-dokie. Cheers.

[SteveGarbage]

Sparks1987 wrote...
wasn't Fergus a grey warden aswell?

Not that I'm aware of, no.

[Jarlof Seoul]

SteveGarbage wrote...

Sparks1987 wrote...
wasn't Fergus a grey warden aswell?

Not that I'm aware of, no.

Good. That way no wierd family tension with the an OGB nephew...

[Andferne]

Down the road Morrigan's God-Child will have to face off against the child found with the metal that forged Starfang. God-child vs Superman!



jk..

[Ex-Paladin]

Since OGB is male, he'll grow up into a handsome man and be a LI in whenever game after DA2!

*Is shot for the mention of a LI*

(I'm really am just joking XD but that would be an interesting turn )

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Morrigan's story doesn't end. But the god-baby is not essential to her story.



Witch Hunt happens whether or not you do the DR, and as far as Morrigan is concerned, the kid isn't central to her plans, only a part of it. If she has no kid, she's still hunting down the eluvians and disappearing off to Maker-knows-where to do whatever the hell it is she's doing.



So, just because Morrigan is definitely still in the cards for future games, does not mean the DR is.

[Super_Fr33k]

Err, help me out Skadi. It isn't possible to import any warden other than the main character of DA:O into WH, is it? Therefore, wouldn't it be just like Awakenings, in that an US decision is undone? Therefore, DR must have occurred and there's a OGB?



I think people arguing over canon and non-canon are ignoring that creative writing can fix everything. I think the Old Gods, whether reincarnated via the magic nasty or no, represent something too interesting and versatile to pass up from a story-telling perspective.



Consider:



As best we know, the Old Gods were an unrivalled source of magical knowledge and power, allowing the Tevinters to interact with the Fade in ways no current mages can comprehend. To think that their sheer magical knowledge, as well as their profound threat to the Chantry, is not fundamental to Flemeth and Morrigan's plans seems a little... weird. Here's how we square the circle:



Morrigan never tells us what happens when a Warden absorbs the essence of an archdemon, other than it is apparently fatal to them both. This is not the same as saying their souls are destroyed. What if they are sent careening into the Fade, or somewhere beyond? What if no Old God soul was ever truly destroyed, even when the other blights were ended?



My theory is that the result of a Warden/archdemon fusion is not destroyed, merely banished from the known portions of material reality and the Fade. This explains why Morrigan would seek the Eluvian regardless of the DR being performed. Either she is hunting for four lost Old Gods, or she is hunting for five. I think the US will be explained as merely slowing Morrigan and Flemeth down in their efforts to restore the Old Gods, not stopping them.



I don't believe any BW types have ever said definitively that the US truly destroys an Old God, but please link it if they have. Otherwise, I think we should view the US and DR as merely adding different flavors to Morrigan's story, if/when it resumes.

[TJPags]

Super_Fr33k wrote...

Err, help me out Skadi. It isn't possible to import any warden other than the main character of DA:O into WH, is it? Therefore, wouldn't it be just like Awakenings, in that an US decision is undone? Therefore, DR must have occurred and there's a OGB?

 

Ummm, no.

Alistair or Loghain could have killed the AD without the DR having been done.

So, Warden alive, no DR, no paradox creating a revived warden.  Therefore, OGB need not exist.