334 réponses à ce sujet

[SteveGarbage]

Heh, sorry for throwing people off with the character mod. I do use them and I mostly pull the screenshots I have for the art. I do hope people pay more attention to the writing than to the graphics I throw in there anyway, haha.

[Saibh]

GodWood wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

GodWood wrote...
The DR isn't canon, deal with it.

Nothing is canon, deal with it.

You are wrong, deal with it.

That doesn't link to any posts by David Gaider. In fact, not a single Bioware employee posted in that thread. And it doesn't link anywhere to any official posts or documentation.
I am right. Deal with it.

It seems you don't understand what canon means.
Deal with it.

DEEL WITH EET.

What? I wanted to jump the bandwagon, be a cool kid.

[fchopin]

exorzist wrote...

As fans are chatting up the forums about Dragon Age 2 and new DLCs, you can hardly avoid mentions and wishes of “god baby.”

There is no god baby and never will be.
 
In my games i never choose that option so if a god baby fathered by my warden turns up in any game then all my games would become pointless and worthless.

[Master Shiori]

phaonica wrote...

And in Awakening, while you may question how your dead Warden could “come back to life” for the expansion, it’s not a continuity lapse so much as its a mechanical anomaly. Gaider explains: “Your Warden was not resurrected in-game. If you imported a DS Warden into Awakening, then you chose to un-do your earlier decision. As to whether you can un-un-do it again when importing into DA2, I really don’t have an answer for that yet, sorry.” If your Warden died and you chose to resurrect him/her, that’s you changing the story from what you previously chose

If they can say you could "undo" your choice not to do the US by importing your US Warden into Awakening, they could do the exact same thing with another expansion.

The difference, I guess, is that the story in Awakening would still occur, no matter if you did the US or not, and the OBG story won't occur at all if you made that choice. Whatever the case, though, if in one DLC the Warden never existed at all, and in other we played as Leliana, and in DA2 we don't play as the Warden at all, then I don't see why we couldn't play an expansion or DLC where we were meant to play a Warden who did the DR.

My thoughts exactly.

Choices only matter if you can see (and preferably deal with) the consequences. If the DR ad OGB simply get ignored in the future than that's almost the same as ignoring the US and pretending it never happened.

Bioware needs to find a way to do justice to both choices rather than shaft one of them and tell players to "deal with it".

[Master Shiori]

Saibh wrote...

phaonica wrote...

And in Awakening, while you may question how your dead Warden could “come back to life” for the expansion, it’s not a continuity lapse so much as its a mechanical anomaly. Gaider explains: “Your Warden was not resurrected in-game. If you imported a DS Warden into Awakening, then you chose to un-do your earlier decision. As to whether you can un-un-do it again when importing into DA2, I really don’t have an answer for that yet, sorry.” If your Warden died and you chose to resurrect him/her, that’s you changing the story from what you previously chose

If they can say you could "undo" your choice not to do the US by importing your US Warden into Awakening, they could do the exact same thing with another expansion.

The difference, I guess, is that the story in Awakening would still occur, no matter if you did the US or not, and the OBG story won't occur at all if you made that choice. Whatever the case, though, if in one DLC the Warden never existed at all, and in other we played as Leliana, and in DA2 we don't play as the Warden at all, then I don't see why we couldn't play an expansion or DLC where we were meant to play a Warden who did the DR.

Because those are alternate universes or past experiences that don't exclude the already existing Grey Warden from the fold. Why should people who made the Ultimate Sacrifice get punished by not having a DLC or expansion to themselves? Why should their choices be invalidated? The US should be a selfless thing you get rewarded for, not get told you made the wrong decision.

Yet, you're fine with telling people who did make a decision to do the DR that they should never see the consequnences of their actions, while at he same time defending your choices?

Bottom line is that there is no "good" or "bad" choice when it comes to Morrigan's offer. Both are equaly valid and players expect Bioware to honor them. Ignoring one for the sake of the other is equaly bad.

[Saibh]

Master Shiori wrote...

Saibh wrote...

phaonica wrote...

And in Awakening, while you may question how your dead Warden could “come back to life” for the expansion, it’s not a continuity lapse so much as its a mechanical anomaly. Gaider explains: “Your Warden was not resurrected in-game. If you imported a DS Warden into Awakening, then you chose to un-do your earlier decision. As to whether you can un-un-do it again when importing into DA2, I really don’t have an answer for that yet, sorry.” If your Warden died and you chose to resurrect him/her, that’s you changing the story from what you previously chose

If they can say you could "undo" your choice not to do the US by importing your US Warden into Awakening, they could do the exact same thing with another expansion.

The difference, I guess, is that the story in Awakening would still occur, no matter if you did the US or not, and the OBG story won't occur at all if you made that choice. Whatever the case, though, if in one DLC the Warden never existed at all, and in other we played as Leliana, and in DA2 we don't play as the Warden at all, then I don't see why we couldn't play an expansion or DLC where we were meant to play a Warden who did the DR.

Because those are alternate universes or past experiences that don't exclude the already existing Grey Warden from the fold. Why should people who made the Ultimate Sacrifice get punished by not having a DLC or expansion to themselves? Why should their choices be invalidated? The US should be a selfless thing you get rewarded for, not get told you made the wrong decision.

Yet, you're fine with telling people who did make a decision to do the DR that they should never see the consequnences of their actions, while at he same time defending your choices?

Bottom line is that there is no "good" or "bad" choice when it comes to Morrigan's offer. Both are equaly valid and players expect Bioware to honor them. Ignoring one for the sake of the other is equaly bad.

Ignoring them both, however, is the best option. It might not be the option that pleases you, but I've been burned several times about what does and does not count as canon.

Was I defending my choice? Did I specify which one I prefer? No. I simply said that it's not fair to have one matter more than the other--the god baby can exist without making a giant impact on the plot.

[dheer]

Saibh wrote...
Why should people who made the Ultimate Sacrifice get punished by not having a DLC or expansion to themselves? Why should their choices be invalidated? The US should be a selfless thing you get rewarded for, not get told you made the wrong decision.

The ultimate sacrifice choice not being followed in future games or dlcs doesn't punish you or make your choice invalid. You chose a heroic ending and that's the reward. It's quite literally the end for that Warden's story.

For other players, just because they didn't sacrifice themselves when ending the blight doesn't mean they need to be punished or have the choice they made invalidated by yours.

Modifié par dheer, 04 août 2010 - 03:16 .

[Pedrak]

Saibh wrote...
the god baby can exist without making a giant impact on the plot.

Because he'd be too powerful? I'm not sure about that - you could hand wave this in a hundred different ways. He's still striving to master his powers, maybe. And after you deal with him, he can, say, either die or ride off into the sunset, or become a powerful source of good or evil depending on your choices, or whatever... There are plenty of ways to give closure the DR without 1) making it necessarily canon and 2) penalizing those who didn't perform it.

[Saibh]

dheer wrote...

Saibh wrote...
Why should people who made the Ultimate Sacrifice get punished by not having a DLC or expansion to themselves? Why should their choices be invalidated? The US should be a selfless thing you get rewarded for, not get told you made the wrong decision.

The ultimate sacrifice choice not being followed in future games or dlcs doesn't punish you or make your choice invalid. You chose a heroic ending and that's the reward. It's quite literally the end for that Warden's story.

For other players, just because they didn't sacrifice themselves when ending the blight doesn't mean they need to be punished or have the choice they made invalidated by yours.

Maybe you feel that way, but if the US was my preferred choice, I would feel like I'm missing out on content simply because I chose to do the selfless thing. Personally, I don't think the god baby has to concern the Warden at all. Considering the nature of where the DA IP is headed, I don't think it would anway. 

And Pedrak, I'm sorry I wasn't clear--but that's what I meant. The godbaby doesn't have to affect the plot in a major way, but it may affect the story, perhaps similar to how you might feel different about Howe if you are a Cousland.

[Anarya]

I just think making every previous choice off-limits in future storylines is so limiting. I mean, the god baby is interesting. There's so much potential there to be explored. I would rather keep that option open and risk pissing off a segment of the fanbase than restrict myself to placate everyone, but that's just me. If it were possible to write two different, equally excellent storylines for each outcome I'd happily play through them both. I'm just in it to have fun and be told a great story really.

[Master Shiori]

Saibh wrote...

Ignoring them both, however, is the best option. It might not be the option that pleases you, but I've been burned several times about what does and does not count as canon.

Ignoring US is easy since it means the Warden's story is over anyway.

Ignoring the DR isn't since it was important to Morrigan, who we know will be back at some point, and was also the most important choice in Origins (according to David Gaider).

Bioware clearly said our choices are supposed to shape Thedas in future games and that can't happen if they ignore them.
How Bioware deals with it is their problem, but both choices need to be respected and not simply swept under a rug.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 04 août 2010 - 03:32 .

[Ymladdych]

dheer wrote...
The ultimate sacrifice choice not being followed in future games or dlcs doesn't punish you or make your choice invalid. You chose a heroic ending and that's the reward. It's quite literally the end for that Warden's story.

For other players, just because they didn't sacrifice themselves when ending the blight doesn't mean they need to be punished or have the choice they made invalidated by yours.

Dragon Age isn't about character continuity, though; it's about WORLD continuity, which means that the story goes on with or without the Warden.  In other words: death of the Warden != death of the story.  As the DA2 blurb points out, this game is about consequences; what if the US repercussions are graver than doing the DR?  What if the Warden's death is less heroic than we all assume?  What if saying yes to OGB just gives rebirth to a more powerful Flemeth and seals Morrigan's embittered fate, but saying no (as a male Warden who sleeps with her) results in a true child and leaves it open for Morrigan's redemption?

The fact that Bioware is opening the plot to these types of questions should be a source of major, freaking excitement for EVERYONE, because it gives the mega-honking weight of that decision some REAL relevance.  I know that OGB-plot fans are worried that their choices will be marginalized, if not ignored completely, but I think you're going to find that the exact opposite is true.

For naysayers who think it's impossible for Bioware to keep the OGB significant and optional at the same time, I pose a question to you:  How are you coming to that conclusion?

Modifié par Ymladdych, 04 août 2010 - 04:24 .

[Behindyounow]

Ymladdych wrote...

For naysayers who think it's impossible for Bioware to keep the OGB significant and optional at the same time, I pose a question to you:  How are you coming to that conclusion?

How they treated the choices in Mass Effect. If a game that is touted to have drastic consequences for your choices in the sequel fails to deliver, how well do you think a game that never said choices would have lasting consequences will do?

[The Edge]

but couldn't morrigan "get it on" with one of the other grey wardens (either alistar/loghain?). If that were the case, your grey warden wouldn't have to take part in the dark ritual, and with other grey wardens, the ritual could've happened behind closed doors, right? I'm merely speculating...



As for the Dark Ritual's importance, Gaider has mentioned that Morrigan's story is far from over. Personally, the dark ritual seems like an important aspect that makes up morrigan's part in all of this (so far). There might be something in DA2 that Morrigan does that makes up for the Dark Ritual, though, something that adds to the fact that her story is not over...



I'm going out on a limb: DA2, using Hawkes choices to affect the world, could be setting up the third installment so that a) the Warden can take over or Hawke or a new character can take over. It would be a stretch, but I think it would be kind of cool.

[FiliusMartis]

It's been said that the ritual is not canon I believe. If Morrigan went and performed the ritual with another warden then the warden who delivered the final blow to the archdemon would not have died, so no... she could not have done the ritual with someone else.

[The Edge]

I just have a hard time seeing Morrigan as important without the god-baby. Of course, she might do something drastic in DA2 with or without the baby. Maybe Bioware has the story so figured out that they already know how to compensate with or without the baby...



I will admit though, that I would like to see the my Warden get some closure from the Morrigan romance (like how some people don't want her at all and others just want to bash her head in)!

[Drizzt ORierdan]

I totally agree with dheer here, the flaw in Steve's article is not seeing that the ONLY way to continue ANY Warden story in a meaningful way is through the Dark Ritual. If you sacrificed your warden, THAT story ends there, and theres really no driving force pulling the plot forward from that point. Alistair being King is not even close as charming as bieng an underdog, insecure warden.
That putting aside Morrigan is one ot he best characters in Origins, IMHO.
So the way I see it, either they pull an expansion for the people who made the DR, and nobody's forced to buy that... Or they wait till DA3, in which (as all the clues given seem to point out) there will be a terrible war that threatens to ungulf all of Thedas, and one of the factions in play will be more or less powerful if theres is a Spawn of Old God running around or none at all...

Modifié par Drizzt ORierdan, 04 août 2010 - 04:54 .

[AlexXIV]

Well they said Morrigan's story isn't done, right? So how could it go on without any mention of the (god) baby. They have the choice to leave a plot hole or make some events canon.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Pedrak wrote...

Saibh wrote...
the god baby can exist without making a giant impact on the plot.

Because he'd be too powerful? I'm not sure about that - you could hand wave this in a hundred different ways. He's still striving to master his powers, maybe. And after you deal with him, he can, say, either die or ride off into the sunset, or become a powerful source of good or evil depending on your choices, or whatever... There are plenty of ways to give closure the DR without 1) making it necessarily canon and 2) penalizing those who didn't perform it.

Why should the baby have any powers at all? Do souls in DA provide power? Who says? The baby is still the product of 2 humans, or elf/dwarf as the case might be.

[Annihilator27]

Well they arent done with Morrigan's story. It would be interesting to see your kid.

[JergenKajaton]

Before they started announcing details for DA2, I had a theory that would have provided an elegant solution to the DR/OGB problem: I speculated that perhaps DA2 would, like DAO, have multiple origin stories, one of which would be the OGB. And if any of the other origins were chosen, then the OGB is assumed to have never existed.

I still think it would be the perfect solution to Bioware's dilemma, and would satisfy all players. Maybe we'll see it in DA3.

[xxprokillazxx]

Perhaps morrigan just wants to take over the body of the kid like flemeth.

[Mecha Tengu]

I wish we had the option to kill that woman....

[jpdipity]

Shinian2 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Saibh wrote...
the god baby can exist without making a giant impact on the plot.

Because he'd be too powerful? I'm not sure about that - you could hand wave this in a hundred different ways. He's still striving to master his powers, maybe. And after you deal with him, he can, say, either die or ride off into the sunset, or become a powerful source of good or evil depending on your choices, or whatever... There are plenty of ways to give closure the DR without 1) making it necessarily canon and 2) penalizing those who didn't perform it.

Why should the baby have any powers at all? Do souls in DA provide power? Who says? The baby is still the product of 2 humans, or elf/dwarf as the case might be.

I agree. 

I don't think that they'll make the god-baby canon (didn't Priestly or Gaider confirm this already? - I thought someone had).

I think that Morrigan will have a powerful child.  That child will be one of three things based on the decisions that were made in DAO:
1 - child with the soul of an Old God as a result of the Dark Ritual
2 - child of the PC Warden as a result of joining Morrigan in her tent at some point and opted out of the Dark Ritual
3 - child from whoever as a result of a declined Dark Ritual and no Morrigan romance

The soul of an Old God does not mean that the child will be beyond powerful and it is not unreasonable to think that the child of Morrigan/grandchild of Flemeth couldn't be extremely powerful regardless of the father.

The child could be the exact same entity with a different background that is easily explained.

Modifié par jpdipity, 04 août 2010 - 05:31 .

[captain.subtle]

There is NO canon.




YET.