334 réponses à ce sujet

[Mecha Tengu]

captain.subtle wrote...

There is NO canon.




YET.

shepard is male

[captain.subtle]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

There is NO canon.




YET.

shepard is male

Morrigan is Female. So is Zevaran.

satisfied?

[Drizzt ORierdan]

jpdipity  wrote
The soul of an Old God does not mean that the child will be beyond powerful and it is not unreasonable to think that the child of Morrigan/grandchild of Flemeth couldn't be extremely powerful regardless of the father.

The child could be the exact same entity with a different background that is easily explained.



Right...       So Flemeth took so much trouble to save you for no reason, cause she could have ANY grandchild... The father is indeed of no importance, but the taint the warden carries IS.  Why would be Morrigan be so earnest in making the ritual WITH A WARDEN if that wouldnt imply conceiving a POWERFUL SPAWN?

Modifié par Drizzt ORierdan, 04 août 2010 - 06:18 .

[Saibh]

captain.subtle wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

There is NO canon.




YET.

shepard is male

Morrigan is Female. So is Zevaran.

satisfied?

That's...not exactly the same thing.

[captain.subtle]

Because its a Joke!

[jpdipity]

Drizzt ORierdan wrote...

Right...       So Flemeth took so much trouble to save you for no reason, cause she could have ANY grandchild... The father is indeed of no importance, but the taint the warden carries IS.  Why would be Morrigan be so earnest in making the ritual WITH A WARDEN if that wouldnt imply conceiving a POWERFUL SPAWN?

You are assuming that Flemeth wanted to save the soul of an Old God for power and perhaps something bad.  There could have been other reasons - perhaps it was knowledge or to perserve the soul as Morrigan stated.

If it was for power, by not doing the Dark Ritual, you could have saved the world from something devasting and Morrigan could still have a very powerful child with the same goals.  So, Flemeth didn't get Plan A, but why can't Plan B be nearly as bad?

Basically, I can't see them giving us three completely different scenarios for the three choices you can make.  It is easier (and still does not make anything canon) if you simply make all three choices equate to the same resulting story.

[Aedan_Cousland]

I don't think there is a dilemma because Morrigan can get impregnated even your Warden and/or Alistair or Loghain never slept with her. Even if you never slept with her and you refuse to do the ritual, it is possible that Morrigan can seduce Riordan the night before the battle. We only see her change into a wolf and leave the Wardens' room, not the castle itself. It's possible that she slinks off immediately to Riordan's room, or that she leaves the castle only for a short period and returns to Riordan later that night.

If the 'god baby' ever becomes a major story line for a future Dragon Age game, I think the Riordan possibility will be explanation given as to how Morrigan managed to conceive her 'god baby' without sleeping with your Warden, Alistair or Loghain.

[captain.subtle]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I don't think there is a dilemma because Morrigan can get impregnated even your Warden and/or Alistair or Loghain never slept with her. Even if you never slept with her and you refuse to do the ritual, it is possible that Morrigan can seduce Riordan the night before the battle. We only see her change into a wolf and leave the Wardens' room, not the castle itself. It's possible that she slinks off immediately to Riordan's room, or that she leaves the castle only for a short period and returns to Riordan later that night.

If the 'god baby' ever becomes a major story line for a future Dragon Age game, I think the Riordan possibility will be explanation given as to how Morrigan managed to conceive her 'god baby' without sleeping with your Warden, Alistair or Loghain.

One more time THIS an I will make a face like THIS:

Riordan can NOT be used for the DR!!!

[NKKKK]

REMEMBER PEOPLE



*****MASS EFFECT NOVEL SPOILER*****



Anderson is an Admiral even if you made him councilor in Retribution. BIOWARE DOESN'T:T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT YOUR OPTIONS.



*****Spoilers Over******



So yes people, you should fear.

[ArcanistLibram]

The issue of the dark ritual, and other plotlines such as Shale becoming a dwarf again, the Warden becoming Bann of the Alienage or Prince/Queen of Ferelden or Teyrn(a) of Gwaren, Leliana going after Marjolaine, or Sten returning to his homeland, should have been resolved within Origins. The epilogues put a lid on all unresolved issues, but Awakening tore it off and made it clear that they hadn't been dealt with.



It can't fit into a sequel without breaking some players' sense of continuity and it's far too limited to get DLC. The best way I can think of doing it would be to release a $20 post-Awakening DLC that would address all of the cliffhangers that weren't dealt with, but I'm not sure that would work either.

[Aedan_Cousland]

captain.subtle wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I don't think there is a dilemma because Morrigan can get impregnated even your Warden and/or Alistair or Loghain never slept with her. Even if you never slept with her and you refuse to do the ritual, it is possible that Morrigan can seduce Riordan the night before the battle. We only see her change into a wolf and leave the Wardens' room, not the castle itself. It's possible that she slinks off immediately to Riordan's room, or that she leaves the castle only for a short period and returns to Riordan later that night.

If the 'god baby' ever becomes a major story line for a future Dragon Age game, I think the Riordan possibility will be explanation given as to how Morrigan managed to conceive her 'god baby' without sleeping with your Warden, Alistair or Loghain.

One more time THIS an I will make a face like THIS:

Riordan can NOT be used for the DR!!!

Just out of curiosity, why not? Is there something in the lore I missed?

As a Grey Warden I'd think Riordan was just as capable of fathering the child as you, Alistair or Loghain. Sure, Riordan dies but the dark ritual doesn't make the Grey Warde's invincible. It just guarantees that they won't be killed if they strike the final blow against the Archdemon. They can still be killed in combat by the Archdemon or the darkspawn.

Even if you sacrificed your Warden Bioware can still get around it if they want to make the god baby canon. They'll just come up with an in game explanation as to why the dark ritual didn't work as intended. (as far as saving the warden)

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 04 août 2010 - 06:25 .

[Saibh]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I don't think there is a dilemma because Morrigan can get impregnated even your Warden and/or Alistair or Loghain never slept with her. Even if you never slept with her and you refuse to do the ritual, it is possible that Morrigan can seduce Riordan the night before the battle. We only see her change into a wolf and leave the Wardens' room, not the castle itself. It's possible that she slinks off immediately to Riordan's room, or that she leaves the castle only for a short period and returns to Riordan later that night.

If the 'god baby' ever becomes a major story line for a future Dragon Age game, I think the Riordan possibility will be explanation given as to how Morrigan managed to conceive her 'god baby' without sleeping with your Warden, Alistair or Loghain.

One more time THIS an I will make a face like THIS:

Riordan can NOT be used for the DR!!!

Just out of curiosity, why not? Is there something in the lore I missed?

As a Grey Warden I'd think Riordan was just as capable of fathering the child as you, Alistair or Loghain. Sure, Riordan dies but the dark ritual doesn't make the Grey Warde's invincible. It just guarantees that they won't be killed if they strike the final blow against the Archdemon. They can still be killed in combat by the Archdemon or the darkspawn.

Yeah, you could have asked Morrigan why Riordan wasn't usable--she said that the taint has to be new in their bodies, which makes sense. The longer you have it, the closer to darkspawn you become.

[Behindyounow]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I don't think there is a dilemma because Morrigan can get impregnated even your Warden and/or Alistair or Loghain never slept with her. Even if you never slept with her and you refuse to do the ritual, it is possible that Morrigan can seduce Riordan the night before the battle. We only see her change into a wolf and leave the Wardens' room, not the castle itself. It's possible that she slinks off immediately to Riordan's room, or that she leaves the castle only for a short period and returns to Riordan later that night.

If the 'god baby' ever becomes a major story line for a future Dragon Age game, I think the Riordan possibility will be explanation given as to how Morrigan managed to conceive her 'god baby' without sleeping with your Warden, Alistair or Loghain.

One more time THIS an I will make a face like THIS:

Riordan can NOT be used for the DR!!!

Just out of curiosity, why not? Is there something in the lore I missed?

As a Grey Warden I'd think Riordan was just as capable of fathering the child as you, Alistair or Loghain. Sure, Riordan dies but the dark ritual doesn't make the Grey Warde's invincible. It just guarantees that they won't be killed if they strike the final blow against the Archdemon. They can still be killed in combat by the Archdemon or the darkspawn.

If you ask Morrigan if she could use Riordan, she says that the taint is too advanced in him. She needs a fresh Warden.

She could be lying I suppose, but if she did get the child, why did someone die at the end?

[Querne]

Not cannon.

David Gaider wrote...

May I put this to rest?

If the player didn't do the Dark Ritual, or didn't get Alistair or Loghain to do it, then it wasn't done. Had Morrigan figured out some way to otherwise do it, then nobody would have died when the Archdemon was slain. If she had some way to go about getting the Archdemon's soul without resorting to the Dark Ritual as she proposed it, then why did she go through all the trouble?

We could undoubtedly come up with some complex Plan B on Morrigan's part whereby she gets the Archdemon's soul but has to do something far more terrible-- but a) that removes the player's agency in the biggest single choice of Origins and would probably be pretty lame.

Modifié par Querne, 04 août 2010 - 06:29 .

[Lintanis]

 Morrigan's Dark Ritual is NOT canon. [David Gaider], [David Gaider]     

[captain.subtle]

Saibh wrote...
Yeah, you could have asked Morrigan why Riordan wasn't usable--she said that the taint has to be new in their bodies, which makes sense. The longer you have it, the closer to darkspawn you become.

hmmm....
So taint = Anti-soul acid?

[dheer]

captain.subtle wrote...
taint = Anti-soul acid?

He had already mastered it.

[captain.subtle]

dheer wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...
taint = Anti-soul acid?

He had already mastered it.

errrr.. what?????

[Saibh]

captain.subtle wrote...

dheer wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...
taint = Anti-soul acid?

He had already mastered it.

errrr.. what?????

SUBMIT YOURSELF.

Modifié par Saibh, 04 août 2010 - 07:14 .

[dheer]

captain.subtle wrote...
errrr.. what?????

www.youtube.com/watch

[sgs1999]

Lintanis wrote...

 Morrigan's Dark Ritual is NOT canon. [David Gaider], [David Gaider]     

And from this you can also read:

The Ultimate Sacrifice is NOT canon.

Why not just let Bioware resolve this, and hopefully they can do so without pissing off a sizable segment of their players, whether they decided to DR or not?

[druplesnubb]

Nice, I started a thread that got posted in by David Gaider AND got linked to on Greywardens.com.

Anyway, the best solution as I see it is to have another plot for those who didn't accept the dark ritual instead of the godbaby plot, one which is a direct consequence of Morrigan being refused. A list of possible examples:

Morrigan raises an ordinary child who she pretends is a god (not that hard since she and possibly the child too has magic powers and people like the old pharaohs managed to make people think they were gods without having any powers at all).

Morrigan tries to perform some kind of time travel to change history so she gets the child and you have to stop her ( admittedly kinda hard to pull off in a setting like this).

She gets a child she infuses with the soul of a demon.

You have to stop her from finding another old god by manipulating the disciples (ties in with the story in Awakening)

Morrigan gives up on the plan and comes up with something completely unrelated.

Flemeth comes up with some evil plan that involves possessing Morrigan (so she gets back her youth) but if Morrigan has the old god to protect her Flemeth can't do that.

Bioware already managed to do a quest where your choices changes the mission completely in Awakening spoilers the assaults on Amaranthine and Vigil's keep spoilers end and I think this wouldn't have to be harder than that.

The biggest problem with this is that then those who haven't played Origins can only get one of the plots unless you can choose what happened at the beginning (which also has to be made in a way that makes for people who know nothing about the story) which means it will have to play a much larger role which makes it harder to implement all the differences. One possible way to handle this is to have certain origins in which the DR happened and some in which it didn't. Though this has to be made in a way that makes it obvious in which origins it happened (like having an origin in which you play as the godchild like someone mentioned before but then they have to explain why you aren't more powerful than the other origin characters).

[captain.subtle]

sgs1999 wrote...
Why not just let Bioware resolve this, and hopefully they can do so without pissing off a sizable segment of their players, whether they decided to DR or not?

If you accept that Books =Canon, then just wait till the DA games get novelized...

Since my wisdom attribute score is 30, that will be after DA3/4.....

[Untamed_skies]

I think taking a character and picking, DR baby, warden's baby, or someone else's baby works fine. I think it'd be more interesting if they changed the stats pending, because let's face it, the baby was being born to "preserve the past," the old gods created the dark spawn and each are seemingly capable of destroying the world. If the DR baby exists, then it can't be just as powerful as it would be anything else. Morrigan being the mother or not.



Another point to make is if they would make anything cannon it makes a world more sense to do the DR. I say this because it opens more plots and twists into the future then killing the warden, and righting off Morrigan. If I'm looking at it from a storyline angle where they are making future games it's just the better choice.



That being said I don't see them doing that, at least with DA:O they did a good job making many different set ups and variations. I personally don't find it hard to believe Morrigan couldn't have found another Warden and made something work. That's the advantage of magic, and gods you can make up a good deal of stuff and still make it tie in well. Then it'd be very simply to change the father between the warden or Joe Schmoo, Which then either has Morrigan being happier or ****ier to whatever character you're using. Be it DA:O Warden, or one that transfers in Awakening. I don't see the Dragon Baby coming into play without a warden, as it directly deals with the blight, and anywhere else would be grossly out of place.



Of course they could also make a patch for Awakening and give a happy or bad ending for the warden searching for Morrigan. That'd give those who want closure, proper closure. It'd be cheap but it'd end the debates once and for all. The fact they havn't suggests like most believe they have plans later.

[Malanek]

I'm not sure the story would be convincing if it focused on Morrigans god baby but a normal baby could be substitued in instead. It's tricky if they want to make it a major plot. An excellent book (well 2 books) about a god baby is David Gemmells Lion of Macedon and its sequel Dark Prince, which is a historical fantasy that has Alexander the Great being born to be the vessel of a dark god.