334 réponses à ce sujet

[Terastar]

I don't kill him. I have trouble killing a kid but I have always had a bad feeling that this will turn around to bite me in the butt later for doing it.

[Lord Deshwitat]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

I wish we had the option to kill that woman....

Second that... The most hated person in my camp=/. Have always wish for a kill option on her. And I REALLY hope that I never see her again, or the child she didn't get with me ot my fellow wardens!!!!!!!

[MaxQuartiroli]

Drizzt ORierdan wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Drizzt ORierdan wrote...

I totally agree with dheer here, the flaw in Steve's article is not seeing that the ONLY way to continue ANY Warden story in a meaningful way is through the Dark Ritual. If you sacrificed your warden, THAT story ends there, and theres really no driving force pulling the plot forward from that point. Alistair being King is not even close as charming as bieng an underdog, insecure warden.
That putting aside Morrigan is one ot he best characters in Origins, IMHO.

Why?! There are 4 ways to finish Dragon Age Origins and none of them was more "important" than another.
Many people who did the Dark Ritual should stop to consider their story like the "TRUE" story of Dragon Age, becuase this isn't true. Everybody here is the owner of a story, a different story that each of us built with the decisions taken during the game, and no one can say that his story is more important or must be considered "better" than any other.. And the devs especially Gaider with his already mentioned posts, said many times that they are going to respect the will of every player..

I personally think that the US is a great ending, perhaps more related to a "Lord of the Rings" feeling. And I didnt say that one choice is "better" than other... I just think that the possible consequences of the dark ritual make that plot more interesting (IMHO) to follow than the others. If your warden is dead, its the end; if you warden is alive and you didnt perform the DR, the only thing for you to do is keep killing darkspawn somewhere else. That I find not so interesting. Again, just MHO, everyone has has the right to one.    

It's obvious that everyone has the right to have his opinion and forums and communities serve the purpose to share and confront them..

I can get your opinion about the DR and even if I don't agree I obviously accept it, what I find unfair are many posts which I have read elsewhere from some people claiming that BW should make the DR canon, that this was the right choice they had in their mind for the story, that other endings don't matter, that god child should exist in any case and so on...
All this assertations were luckily denied by the devs, saying they wouldn't give people a choice if they had to screw it at a second time, and that doesnt'exist a REAL Dragon Age story, but the story (or the different stories if you have more than one) that every single  player created with his decisions

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 05 août 2010 - 09:00 .

[Pedrak]

I think this is a case where we fans are making it more difficult than it is in reality.

There are literally dozens of ways in which Bio can handle the OGB story without devoting a whole game to it, dropping it completely or making it necessarily canon.

[Patlans]

Pedrak wrote...

I think this is a case where we fans are making it more difficult than it is in reality.../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

There are
literally dozens of ways in which Bio can handle the OGB story without
devoting a whole game to it, dropping it completely or making it
necessarily canon.

vilnii wrote...

The reason the god baby is so interesting is that it goes to the heart of the Dragon Age cosmology. The presences of untainted old god.

The escape of such a power from imprisonment AND corruption.

So it roams the world, and what it does with its powers can be unlimited. With the kind of knowlege it possesses it can enter the Black City and fight the evil spewing from there

It can also free other old gods from imprisonment.

It's intelligence may be enough to find a cure for the taint, etc

The possibilities go on...

I agree on both accounts

ME and DA are choose your own adventure games. Like the novels you decide how it turns out. To force anyone to commit to a story line in which their choices don't matter takes away from the personal experience. For me I went with the ritual and I'd like to see what comes of that. For others They'd like nothing to do with it or a chance to prevent it from happening ever ie. to kill morrigan.

The game is ALL about choice. Why limit it with "Cannon" Sure you can have a set of default decisions for those who don't import. However if you upload your previous character their choices should continue on if Bioware is going to take DA along the same path as ME. Cannon hardly matters at all in ME since every decision has been carried forward into the next game it creates multiple storylines with no one plot in particular being dominant. Why everyone is getting so riled up is beyond me. So long as your choices and their consequences carry forward it doesn't really matter, your choices, your experience, your storyline.

Modifié par Patlans, 05 août 2010 - 03:28 .

[SteveGarbage]

First and foremost to everyone - thanks for discussing this. I'm really glad that my article has spawned such a great discussion here as well as over on the actual story at greywardens.com. It was a lot of reading I did around here that got me thinking about the whole situation.

Pedrak wrote...

I think this is a case where we fans are making it more difficult than it is in reality.

There are literally dozens of ways in which Bio can handle the OGB story without devoting a whole game to it, dropping it completely or making it necessarily canon.

This is important and it's one thing I want to express again. I'm not saying that BioWare has to completely abandon the story. The point I wanted to get across is if they want to make all players happy is that it can't be a major plotline and has to be marginalized. If they want to include it in DA2 or beyond, great. If they want to declare it the "canon" choice by setting the dark ritual as a default in another game, fine. But in order to not really honk off the people who didn't do it (like myself), it can't be a major focus of the game, it has to be a sidequest or a cameo type thing.

They COULD come out in the future and go Dragon Age 3: All About God Baby, but if they want to continue to import and care about your agency mattering, that's a slap in the face to people who don't do the DR.

But again, thanks to everyone for discussing this topic in depth. I really appreciate seeing that some of the work I did actually mattered, heh.

Modifié par SteveGarbage, 05 août 2010 - 04:30 .

[marquiseondore]

Why assume that there was even a godchild. The epilogue, if I recall states that she is "possibly" with child. That doesn't rule out the probability she could have miscarried.

Modifié par marquiseondore, 05 août 2010 - 04:48 .

[Pedrak]

SteveGarbage wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

I think this is a case where we fans are making it more difficult than it is in reality.

There are literally dozens of ways in which Bio can handle the OGB story without devoting a whole game to it, dropping it completely or making it necessarily canon.

This is important and it's one thing I want to express again. I'm not saying that BioWare has to completely abandon the story. The point I wanted to get across is if they want to make all players happy is that it can't be a major plotline and has to be marginalized. If they want to include it in DA2 or beyond, great. If they want to declare it the "canon" choice by setting the dark ritual as a default in another game, fine. But in order to not really honk off the people who didn't do it (like myself), it can't be a major focus of the game, it has to be a sidequest or a cameo type thing.

Yeah, Steve, I actually agree with you  - to "force" a canon on the player would be disrespectful towards the single most important choice in Origins. And therefore if the OGB will return, he will do so not as a crucial part of the main quest. But I'm sure that Bio can manage to make the OGB plot both "optional" (a sidequest, a party member) and yet emotional and relevant enough to give the players who did the DR a satisfying feeling of closure. While giving something alternative to those who chose the US, who therefore won't be penalized.

Modifié par Pedrak, 05 août 2010 - 05:03 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Behindyounow wrote...

If you ask Morrigan if she could use Riordan, she says that the taint is too advanced in him. She needs a fresh Warden.

She could be lying I suppose, but if she did get the child, why did someone die at the end?

Hmm, I must have missed the option where you ask her about Riordan.

Does she state that the taint makes him sterile, or does she state that the ritual won't work because the taint is too advanced in him?

If Morrigan states he is incapable of fathering a child, it would be a serious retcon to make the dark ritual canon and Riordan the father if the Warden turned Morrigan down. If it is the latter, Bioware could still make the ritual canon without a major retcon. In that case she would have only said the ritual wouldn't work as intended. Bioware could claim that turning down Morrigan resorts to her going to a not very appealing plan B (Riordan), and while the dark ritual failed to protect the Wardens because the taint was stronger in Riordan, it succeeded in capturing the soul of the old god.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the Dark Ritual. I would have preferred that the Warden that kills the archdemon had no way of escaping the terrible consequences of being a Grey Warden. I'm a firm believer that there should be no victory without loss, so I would have liked to have seen the PC or a couple of the companions perish. In game on my main character (male human noble) I chose to go through the Dark Ritual, because turning it down wouldn't have made much sense from a roleplay perspective. I just wish I hadn't been presented with that option.

But I'm fairly certain Bioware wouldn't have introduced a 'god baby' into the series without that having some role in the story down the line, especially since we've been told that we haven't seen the last of Morrigan.

[SteveGarbage]

marquiseondore wrote...

Why assume that there was even a godchild. The epilogue, if I recall states that she is "possibly" with child. That doesn't rule out the probability she could have miscarried.

That is another good point people often overlook. The whole ritual could have been a massive failure. The Archdemon soul may have destroyed the child same as it destroys a true Warden.

[Pedrak]

In any case, it is fairly obvious that they do have something planned for Morrigan, OGB or not, given that she is the only companion out of both games (Origins and Awakening) who, canonically, cannot die.

Modifié par Pedrak, 05 août 2010 - 05:55 .

[Pedrak]

SteveGarbage wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Why assume that there was even a godchild. The epilogue, if I recall states that she is "possibly" with child. That doesn't rule out the probability she could have miscarried.

That is another good point people often overlook. The whole ritual could have been a massive failure. The Archdemon soul may have destroyed the child same as it destroys a true Warden.

Er... that would be a bit of a cop-out, wouldn't it?  Not any better than "forcing" the DR on the player who chose US, I think.

Modifié par Pedrak, 05 août 2010 - 06:01 .

[FiliusMartis]

Pedrak wrote...

In any case, it is fairly obvious that they do have something planned for Morrigan, OGB or not, given that she is the only companion out of both games (Origins and Awakening) who, canonically, cannot die.

Depends on what you mean by that. I'm fairly certain that if you trick her and let Flemeth live the epilogue all but says Flemeth possessed her. 

[Pedrak]

FiliusMartis wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

In any case, it is fairly obvious that they do have something planned for Morrigan, OGB or not, given that she is the only companion out of both games (Origins and Awakening) who, canonically, cannot die.

Depends on what you mean by that. I'm fairly certain that if you trick her and let Flemeth live the epilogue all but says Flemeth possessed her. 

Well, according to the Dragon Age Wiki, no. But I honestly have no idea, because I did kill the old hag...

[DarthCaine]

What I'm interested in is what happens if you romanced Morrigan, but didn't do the dark ritual, since if you romance her she has a child either way, just not with the soul of the archdemon

[DPB]

Who made this a sticky? Is that meant to be a hint?

Modifié par dbankier, 05 août 2010 - 06:55 .

[Saibh]

dbankier wrote...

Who made this a sticky? Is that meant to be a hint?

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. It seems really...off, considering the other stickies are just news or information.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Stickied? Hope its a mistake...

[joriandrake]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Stickied? Hope its a mistake...

I agree

[Blessed Silence]

That's the one thing I like and kind of dislike about DA:O.  You get alot of choices in how you want to make your story, but then DA:A comes out and I'm like WT* as Alistair is King???

I hoped when I heard DA2 came out we would be playing as the child as it would be interesting.  Mainly because Morrigan would not tell you what she was using the child for.  Now that I think about it, she might be doing that which her mother already was ... as a vessel?  To unlock old secrets?

Eh oh well.  There's always DA3.

[DPB]

Blessed Silence wrote...

That's the one thing I like and kind of dislike about DA:O.  You get alot of choices in how you want to make your story, but then DA:A comes out and I'm like WT* as Alistair is King???

I'm pretty sure that's a bug. Alistair's endings were notoriously buggy, and unfortunately some of it carried over to Awakening.

[Jamie_edmo]

jpdipity wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Saibh wrote...
the god baby can exist without making a giant impact on the plot.

Because he'd be too powerful? I'm not sure about that - you could hand wave this in a hundred different ways. He's still striving to master his powers, maybe. And after you deal with him, he can, say, either die or ride off into the sunset, or become a powerful source of good or evil depending on your choices, or whatever... There are plenty of ways to give closure the DR without 1) making it necessarily canon and 2) penalizing those who didn't perform it.

Why should the baby have any powers at all? Do souls in DA provide power? Who says? The baby is still the product of 2 humans, or elf/dwarf as the case might be.

I agree. 

I don't think that they'll make the god-baby canon (didn't Priestly or Gaider confirm this already? - I thought someone had).

I think that Morrigan will have a powerful child.  That child will be one of three things based on the decisions that were made in DAO:
1 - child with the soul of an Old God as a result of the Dark Ritual
2 - child of the PC Warden as a result of joining Morrigan in her tent at some point and opted out of the Dark Ritual
3 - child from whoever as a result of a declined Dark Ritual and no Morrigan romance

The soul of an Old God does not mean that the child will be beyond powerful and it is not unreasonable to think that the child of Morrigan/grandchild of Flemeth couldn't be extremely powerful regardless of the father.

The child could be the exact same entity with a different background that is easily explained.

I agree 100% with this, different backgrounds could easily be included seeing as though mass effect 3 will have over 1000 imported factors that will determine the story

[Blessed Silence]

dbankier wrote...

Blessed Silence wrote...

That's the one thing I like and kind of dislike about DA:O.  You get alot of choices in how you want to make your story, but then DA:A comes out and I'm like WT* as Alistair is King???

I'm pretty sure that's a bug. Alistair's endings were notoriously buggy, and unfortunately some of it carried over to Awakening.

True.  When I didn't make Alistair king at Landsmeet, then later asked him to sleep with Morrigan, he gave me the line about him being King and can handle anything.

Er no .. fail Alistair.