50 réponses à ce sujet

[Valarioth]

Taken from http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/:

You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home. Now,
forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, you must gather
the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal your place in
history. This is the story of how the world changed forever. The legend
of your Rise to Power begins now.

Sigh,
sounds like the same story as always.  Let me guess, after the opening
area, we'll be tasked to go to three...no, maybe FOUR distinct quest
arcs to gather allies then a rush to the climax.  Huzah.

[Saibh]

http://social.biowar...1/index/3285451



We acknowledge the existence of BioWare tropes. They do not detract from gaming experience.



Well, personally they don't.

[Valarioth]

And I thought I was being all edgy. Better crawl back into my hole.

[kerblagh]

Yeah you're probably right. Pity.

[Behindyounow]

Devs have confirmed theres no secret society you join, and theres no ancient evil you have to stop. So already its fairly different to most Bioware games.

[DarthCaine]

Valarioth wrote...

Let me guess, after the opening area, we'll be tasked to go to three...no, maybe FOUR distinct quest arcs to gather allies then a rush to the climax.  Huzah.

I doubt that since it will span 10 years, so I think it will be more linear

[Pedrak]

The basic plots (the quest, overcoming the monster...) and narrative tropes tend to return in most of the tales, not only in Bio's games. What makes the difference is how well those stories are narrated.

[RevengeofNewton]

Valarioth wrote...

Taken from http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/:

You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home. Now,
forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, you must gather
the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal your place in
history. This is the story of how the world changed forever. The legend
of your Rise to Power begins now.

Sigh,
sounds like the same story as always.  Let me guess, after the opening
area, we'll be tasked to go to three...no, maybe FOUR distinct quest
arcs to gather allies then a rush to the climax.  Huzah.

lol @ just realizing the bioware formula

[Bruno Hslaw]

I would laugh if it turned out Hawke was gathering an army to become the greatest anti hero & turned out to be the enemy for DA3. That would be a laugh.

[Krytheos]

Behindyounow wrote...

Devs have confirmed theres no secret society you join, and theres no ancient evil you have to stop. So already its fairly different to most Bioware games.

Yeah, they have pretty much confirmed no secret society or ancient evil or anything of that nature, and you aren't the Godbaby or anything. So far, it is -very- different from most BioWare games which do use the following formulae:

1. Is there an Ancient Evil you must defeat? 
2. Do you have to gather an army to stand a chance?
3. Are you some sort of 'awesome mcpants' hero, or a lowly child who is secretly a child of a God?
4. Any others that I may have missed that similary fit this formulae.

And already, there's 3 of those crossed out, no secret soceity. So, it promises to be an interesting deviation, narrative and all. So call me optimistic, but I am excited/ecstatic to see how well DA: 2 turns out. Me, personally, I hope it does well and succeeds, and is a good, narrated and excellet story/game, so yeah.

[andar91]

As a student of literature, I can honestly say that almost every single story every written contains common elements and patterns. It is EXTREMELY hard to avoid them when you construct a plot because they are necessary to a good plot in most cases (protagonist, antagonist, mentor, progression from weak to strong or vice-versa in tragic stories, the polarized female figures (motherly and pure (Wynne and less-so Leliana) and a dark, promiscuous witch-type (need I go explain this one?)). There are a ton that show up in many, many tales. You don't need all of them, but you usually need at least a few of them. This is why, in my opinion, the best stories are character-driven. We know that we'll probably have the strong and silent type (Sten) and the dark hero (Morrigan) and the sort-off vanilla yet likeable sidekick (Alistair), and we know that we're going to have to face a betrayal (Loghain), have a love interest (if you so choose in a video game), somehow end up being the only one who can perform a task (all other GW are wiped out). What makes the story good is that the characters are interesting and you get to see them interact and react to what is going on around them in their own way. Since it's a video game, another dimension is introduced as you become immersed in the world/story and can interact with said world and characters.



If Hawke was to try and take on his/her enemies (whoever/whatever they might be) without allies the story would seem incredibly unrealistc, and he/she logically needs to gather them, as in the first game. If Hawke started out powerful and didn't rise to power, I think the progression would be pretty damn boring.



I'm not trying to knock your opinion or anything because I realize that plots often rely on cliches. When they aren't executed skillfully and subtly, they often result in a violent eye-roll (such as when I read the first Eragon book or watched The Last Airbender). I'm shocked there's no organization or ancient evil this time around; that alone tells me they're stepping outside of the safety zone in terms of plot and storytelling (also with the framed narrative).

[BeastMTL]

As long as they dont make me gather a team for a suicide mission against a giant terminator I'm good!

[Saibh]

BeastMTL wrote...

As long as they dont make me gather a team for a suicide mission against a giant terminator I'm good!

Three-eyed Terminator, I'm sure you mean to say. Honestly, I adored the Suicide Mission to itty bitty pieces. It was a nice change from the "WE NEED A SAD ENDING FOR THE GOOD GUYS TIME TO DIE" thing. You worked for it, and you could have any level of happiness or misery you liked.

[Krytheos]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

I would laugh if it turned out Hawke was gathering an army to become the greatest anti hero & turned out to be the enemy for DA3. That would be a laugh.

Not to get too off-topic, but this would actually be a fairly surprising twist. I recall in Drakengard, you played as Caim, and more-or-less gathered an army. In Drakengard 2, Caim became the main antagonist, so yeah, huge 'what the hell' twist there, so yeah. If it's done well, I could understand it and even applaud such a twist. If it wasn't, then I'd have to roll my eyes and shake my head.

[Demx]

The only trope that Bioware has never changed in previous games is this one:

Are you thwarted at every turn by a secret organization?



However, this doesn't mean the people who are investigating Hawke's story will not face a secret organization.

[joriandrake]

Saibh wrote...

BeastMTL wrote...

As long as they dont make me gather a team for a suicide mission against a giant terminator I'm good!

Three-eyed Terminator, I'm sure you mean to say. Honestly, I adored the Suicide Mission to itty bitty pieces. It was a nice change from the "WE NEED A SAD ENDING FOR THE GOOD GUYS TIME TO DIE" thing. You worked for it, and you could have any level of happiness or misery you liked.

I agree, I had on my first ending the best outcome as I always play even through every sidequest and plan carefully, it was sa great feeling, I can't understand the people who say it was too easy to get everyone out alive or that they are pissed that this and this character survived, it isn't as if they couldn't just replay the game and make it so that the people they want dead become dead.

I am especially happy with the chance to be able to save everyone, it gives me the feeling as Shepard to be a heroic character from Star Trek, Andromeda, or Stargate

[Blumbum]

All of those unusual points are all fine, but meaningless if we still have to gather armies/group members. They should be gained along the way and optional, not the main quest.

[Daerog]

RevengeofNewton wrote...

lol @ just realizing the bioware formula

This.

Honestly, the pieces that all the BW games share are fun. I never get tired of them... well, so far.

**SPOILERS**

Jade Empire: Spirit Monk, Black Whirlwind, Sagacious Zu, Sky, Princess/Silk Fox,  Amulet Pieces
KotOR: Revan, HK-47, Canderous Ordo, Carth Onasi, Bastila Shan, Star Maps
Mass Effect: Spectre, Wrex (combines comedic and tough badboy), Kaiden/Garrus, Ashley, Geth Activity
Dragon Age: Grey Warden, Zevran, Sten, Alistair, Leliana, gather army
ME2: Eh, you can figure it out by now, right? However, there was more gathering in that game than previous.

eh, maybe not all of those everyone agrees with, but that's how I viewed some of the similarities. NWN was different with barely having a party system, haven't played BG, MDK2, Shattered Steel, or other BW games.

Love ya, BioWare!

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 04 août 2010 - 06:48 .

[Saibh]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...

lol @ just realizing the bioware formula

This.

Honestly, the pieces that all the BW games share are fun. I never get tired of them... well, so far.

**SPOILERS**

Jade Empire: Spirit Monk, Black Whirlwind, Sagacious Zu, Sky, Princess/Silk Fox,  Amulet Pieces
KotOR: Revan, HK-47, Canderous Ordo, Carth Onasi, Bastila Shan, Star Maps
Mass Effect: Spectre, Wrex (combines comedic and tough badboy), Kaiden/Garrus, Ashley, Geth Activity
Dragon Age: Grey Warden, Zevran, Sten, Alistair, Leliana, gather army
ME2: Eh, you can figure it out by now, right? However, there was more gathering in that game than previous.

eh, maybe not all of those everyone agrees with, but that's how I viewed some of the similarities. NWN was different with barely having a party system, haven't played BG, MDK2, Shattered Steel, or other BW games.

Love ya, BioWare!

Dawn Star is more accurate to Leliana...Ashley is closer to Morrigan than Leliana (who is close to Liara), but I wouldn't say either of them are alike.

I would say Silk Fox/Bastila/Morrigan/Miranda is a more accurate assumption.

Zevran isn't completely insane.

And I wouldn't compare Alistair to Kaidan or Carth. To Garrus, maybe. But not to them.

Modifié par Saibh, 04 août 2010 - 07:00 .

[Bryy_Miller]

DarthCaine wrote...

Valarioth wrote...

Let me guess, after the opening area, we'll be tasked to go to three...no, maybe FOUR distinct quest arcs to gather allies then a rush to the climax.  Huzah.

I doubt that since it will span 10 years, so I think it will be more linear

I see it right now as ten acts.

[Kalfear]

DarthCaine wrote...

Valarioth wrote...

Let me guess, after the opening area, we'll be tasked to go to three...no, maybe FOUR distinct quest arcs to gather allies then a rush to the climax.  Huzah.

I doubt that since it will span 10 years, so I think it will be more linear

It will span 10 years but it will also be very linear

do this this and this
mandatory cutscreen
do this and this
anouther cutscreen
repeat till end

This sounds mor elinear then anything before hand to be honest and ME2 was terrible in its linear design

[Daerog]

Saibh wrote...

Dawn Star is more accurate to Leliana...Ashley is closer to Morrigan than Leliana (who is close to Liara), but I wouldn't say either of them are alike.

I would say Silk Fox/Bastila/Morrigan/Miranda is a more accurate assumption.

Zevran isn't completely insane.

And I wouldn't compare Alistair to Kaidan or Carth. To Garrus, maybe. But not to them.

Like I said, not many will agree. I just mean Leliana, Silk Fox, and Ashley because they are females with an inner conflict of tradition and personal feelings. Morrigan hardly has any tradition to conflict with and doesn't show conflict to as much of a degree. Liara? Ya, probably with what ME2 did to her, but not in ME1. Miranda fits.

Zevran, Whirlwind, and HK-47 are insane/silly and are pretty much the comedy (dark comedy) of the group. Wrex is kinda funny, but it seemed toned down in ME.

Alistair is compared with Kaiden and Carth and Garrus because they are the guy friend with their own inner problems and who are constantly keeping their eyes on you. Carth b/c of trust issues, Alistair b/c of leadership issues, Garrus b/c of hero issues, but Kaiden doesn't have any real issues other than working with you for a while.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kalfear wrote...
It will span 10 years but it will also be very linear

do this this and this
mandatory cutscreen
do this and this
anouther cutscreen
repeat till end

This sounds mor elinear then anything before hand to be honest and ME2 was terrible in its linear design

Ever played BG2?  HoTU?  Pretty damn linear games.  Hell, even KOTOR was linear as hell when you boiled it down to its essential plot.  Linearity is almost a cuss word around BioWare fans, and it cracks me up because BioWare's essential plots are no more or less linear than even the most hamfisted of JRPGs.  For DA:O?  You're the Warden and you have to do x, y, and zed to stop the Blight.  Wham, bam, thank you ma'am.  Linear.  The gift BioWare has is giving players a) lots of character roleplaying room and an illusion of meaningful choice so the game feels a lot less linear and a lot more open-ended.  As I've said before, plot rails are not a bad thing.  They give the game a sense of cohesion and direction.  It's only bad when the plot rails show.

[andar91]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Kalfear wrote...
It will span 10 years but it will also be very linear

do this this and this
mandatory cutscreen
do this and this
anouther cutscreen
repeat till end

This sounds mor elinear then anything before hand to be honest and ME2 was terrible in its linear design

Ever played BG2?  HoTU?  Pretty damn linear games.  Hell, even KOTOR was linear as hell when you boiled it down to its essential plot.  Linearity is almost a cuss word around BioWare fans, and it cracks me up because BioWare's essential plots are no more or less linear than even the most hamfisted of JRPGs.  For DA:O?  You're the Warden and you have to do x, y, and zed to stop the Blight.  Wham, bam, thank you ma'am.  Linear.  The gift BioWare has is giving players a) lots of character roleplaying room and an illusion of meaningful choice so the game feels a lot less linear and a lot more open-ended.  As I've said before, plot rails are not a bad thing.  They give the game a sense of cohesion and direction.  It's only bad when the plot rails show.

I like linearity.  When I have too much choice I get bored.  I need direction.  DA:O was very linear; you just got to pick in what order you did the levels.  The levels themselves were fairly linear.

[joriandrake]

western RPG-s tend to be more or atleast as much linear as japanese ones, they only have lot of sidequests to hide the fact

Modifié par joriandrake, 04 août 2010 - 08:44 .