59 réponses à ce sujet

[Dtelm]

Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer...

Anyway.
Here's my dilemnia. I've been doing another playthrough of DA: Origins and DA: Awakening that I plan to use for Dragon Age II.

I can't seem to decide whether or not I want to kill Flemeth. On one hand, Morrigan is in the wardens pocket, to some extent. His interests are alot better off with a witch of the wilds that is in love with him running around with a demon baby, than Flemeth, let alone TWO witches of the wilds running about. Not to mention if flemeth takes possession of Morrigan and through her the child.

On the other hand, Flemeth, for all her deception, seems benevolent enough for a spirit-creature/witch. She did save the wardens life, albeit, probably for selfish reasons But then again leaving Flemeth alive is just another loose end. Oh how I despise loose ends. 

I know Flemeth is returning in DA II. I know she is to some extent a force for change in the world of thedas. But it comes down to what sort of change? Whats everyones take on the infamous witch of the wilds, and what did you do to her? 

[Dtelm]

I guess more of what I'm asking is what do you think Flemeth's role in Dragon Age 2 will be?

[Anarya]

Probably similar to her role in 1. She observes, guides, advises, intervenes when it suits her interests. She's actually pretty archetypal.

[Malanek]

I don't think she minds you "killing" her at all. I believe it fits into her plan, which ultimately is to inhabit the body of an old god ie potentially Morrigans baby. She didn't seem interested in defending her actions when you talk to her. She wanted Morrigan to have the grimoir but got pissed off if you said you would keep it for yourself.

[Dtelm]

Well. I wouldnt say she wants you to kill her. If that were the case she wouldnt offer you the chance to take the grimore and let her flee. But I hadnt really thought about how much killing her would actually slow her down.

[Malanek]

Killing her shows that you believe, and will go to extreme lengths to please, Morrigan. That means the dark ritual is more likely to take place. And since we get the impression that killing her doesn't actually kill her, that's why I think she is at least satisfied with the situation. Of course I am guessing, could be completely wrong.

[SirOccam]

I don't know if I believe the whole "she wanted you to kill her" story myself...she tries to talk you out of it then puts up a hell of a fight if you persist.

I do agree she probably wants the DR to be done, and I think her plan really is to possess Morrigan's body, as Morrigan surmised. Being "killed" by the Warden, while not final, is a significant setback she'd rather do without.

My characters always end up killing her...but that's probably because my male characters usually end up head-over-heels for Morrigan. I can't help it!

[Kimarous]

My warden reasoned that, even though Flemeth had saved both himself and Alistair, that she was too much of a danger to leave around. He wasn't doing it so much for his own sake so much as for Morrigan, who he considered a close friend.

Furthermore, does the single instance of saving your life excuse the countless possessions she has done over the centuries?

Modifié par Kimarous, 05 août 2010 - 05:35 .

[Riona45]

In my case, I only killed Flemeth out of concern for Morrigan (as a friend).

[SirOccam]

Kimarous wrote...

Furthermore, does the single instance of saving your life excuse the countless possessions she has done over the centuries?

Those are all hearsay though. And we all know how reliable legends are in the Dragon Age universe. Even Morrigan can only tell us what she believes...she can't truly know what happened before she was born.

Modifié par SirOccam, 05 août 2010 - 05:43 .

[vitruss]

Kimarous wrote...

Furthermore, does the single instance of saving your life excuse the countless possessions she has done over the centuries?

think about how many people you as the grey warden you saved though, flemeth through you saved everyone in a sense.

[Kimarous]

SirOccam wrote...

Kimarous wrote...

Furthermore, does the single instance of saving your life excuse the countless possessions she has done over the centuries?

Those are all hearsay though. And we all know how reliable legends are in the Dragon Age universe. Even Morrigan can only tell us what she believes...she can't truly know what happened before she was born.

Hearsay? Flemeth herself documented all of them in a grimoire! I think that's pretty darn solid evidence!

Morrigan first alerts us to the existence of this grimoire while remembering how upset Flemeth was after a templar stole it from her. When she finally retrieves said tome and discovers it's contents, she is disturbed and asks for your help. As tenuous as Morrigan's relationship with Flemeth is, she still isn't the type to have her murdered without good reason.

[HTTP 404]

I think the morrigan/flemeth situation will probably be the most fluid interchange of circumstances that DA2 will have to do because of the options players have in DAO

[Greenface21]

Choose the option that best fits your characters personality. From a post-gaming perspective, I think Flemeth was indifferent to the whole confrontation in front of her hut. Her main objectives seemed to have been to keep the warden alive and to send Morrigan off on her adventure. With those being accomplished she's just having some fun with the warden.



My wardens generally let Flemeth live. She saved the warden's life and that means something. Actions speak louder then words and from all the deeds witnessed by my warden Flemeth has been very helpful in the fight against darkspawn. Morrigan doesn't seem fully trustworthy and to kill at her say so seems a bit extreme.



I'd like to believe Flemeth's ultimate plan is something more complex then to possess OGB or Morrigan. I hope the writers throw in a surprising twist for this plot line otherwise it would be very contrived.

[Drizzt ORierdan]

My only advice would be, wathever you do, dont make a bargain with Flemeth. Lying to Morrigan, giving her a false sense of security and becoming an instrument in Flemeth's plan is the worst of all alternatives.

[SirOccam]

Kimarous wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Kimarous wrote...

Furthermore, does the single instance of saving your life excuse the countless possessions she has done over the centuries?

Those are all hearsay though. And we all know how reliable legends are in the Dragon Age universe. Even Morrigan can only tell us what she believes...she can't truly know what happened before she was born.

Hearsay? Flemeth herself documented all of them in a grimoire! I think that's pretty darn solid evidence!

Morrigan first alerts us to the existence of this grimoire while remembering how upset Flemeth was after a templar stole it from her. When she finally retrieves said tome and discovers it's contents, she is disturbed and asks for your help. As tenuous as Morrigan's relationship with Flemeth is, she still isn't the type to have her murdered without good reason.

If I remember correctly, she has something written in there about how to perform such a thing, but not like a huge list of all the people she's done it to. Obviously something in there leads Morrigan to believe that's her plan, but 1) it's not PROOF, 2) Morrigan could be misinterpreting (we aren't allowed to see the text for ourselves), and 3) Morrigan could simply be lying.

Now I'm not saying she's lying...like I said, I always end up killing Flemeth and doing the DR simply because my characters tend to end up trusting Morrigan. But in spite of all of that, I still have to admit that it IS trust, and not concrete, irrefutable evidence.

Honestly, my prediction is that eventually we'll ( and by "we" I mean Warden or Hawke or whoever it may be) have to pick a side: Morrigan or Flemeth. And probably without any clear indication about which side is the right side.

[Kimarous]

www.youtube.com/watch

Conversation starts at 1:48. Quote starting at 3:37: "Indeed. That is primarily what this tome details. The various daughters that Flemeth has... acquired. Their preparation and training."

That sounds awfully list-like to me...

Modifié par Kimarous, 05 août 2010 - 07:03 .

[Daerog]

Well, while my Warden always kills Flemeth, there is no real need to do it other than to protect Morrigan and possibly future people. However, if you are just being practical, there is no real threat that Flemeth presents. She is a super powerful abomination thing, but it's not like she's out to conquer the world.

She's like a true Sith person, having and gaining power just for the sake of power and being free. She does kill people here and there, including those who she spirit jumps to, but she isn't out to commit mass homicide. Well, overtime it'll add up, but she isn't a threat to the balance of Thedas, the Blight is, and the Warden's job is to stop the Blight, not some old abomination who kills a person here and there over the years for her own survival.

I still slay her, but if you think about it, it doesn't do much. Even if she possessed that body created from Old God essence, would she be the kind of being to just conquer everything or go on a killing spree? I don't know, but it seems she just goes for power for the sake of power and not much else. Could be wrong.

[elvenXasari]

all of my characters always end up trusting morrigan(the males romantically, and the females as a very close friend)..so i'v killed flemeth every playthrough

altho i feel like i havent really killed her because of the way morrigan talks about it...i really really hope theres going 2 be a show down btween morrigan and flemeth eventually XD and hopefully it will be with my warden character from DA:O cuz i want him to reunite with the love of his life and help her 1 final time before he succumbs to the taint within himself

[SirOccam]

Kimarous wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Conversation starts at 1:48. Quote starting at 3:37: "Indeed. That is primarily what this tome details. The various daughters that Flemeth has... acquired. Their preparation and training."

That sounds awfully list-like to me...

So apparently I do not remember correctly. That still leaves the possibility that Morrigan is lying, though, and as much as I always end up trusting Morrigan, it's still trust. We don't have an opportunity to look in the book for ourselves, and if we wanted to get really nitpicky about it, we have no way of verifying the authenticity of the book.

Also, I hate to say it because I know how ridiculous it sounds, but I think there's still a little bit of wiggle room in the way Morrigan phrases that sentence. I think there is still a chance (however small) that she could be misinterpreting what was in there. For example, she may have read something about training her daughter(s) and also something about possession, and drew a connection there that possibly wasn't meant to be drawn.

I'm not defending Flemeth, and I already know what side I'd take (Morrigan's) no matter what, but I just don't think that these stories are enough on their own to justify killing Flemeth, even with Morrigan's assertions. I think no matter what, trust has to enter into everyone's decision, at least to some degree.

[Drizzt ORierdan]

Kimarous wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Conversation starts at 1:48. Quote starting at 3:37: "Indeed. That is primarily what this tome details. The various daughters that Flemeth has... acquired. Their preparation and training."

That sounds awfully list-like to me...

 

Great, legendary Toegoff!!!!!  Best "Lets Play" EVER!  

[Behindyounow]

Let her go. Morrigan wants you to kill her, and theres nothing better than pissing off Morrigan.

[Lord Gremlin]

Flemeth is a big, juicy piniata full of XP. To kill or not to kill is not a question.

[Nerevar-as]

Taking over the Old God body should leave her just with that, the body. I hope the plan is more complicated. Also, as it is not a canon event, she probably had a plan B at hand for her goals.

[FiliusMartis]

According to Shale, Morrigan is the only one who can read the book, which leads me to believe it's written in some other language or cipher. Morrigan offers to teach Shale how to read it, but if it's a unique thing, there's no way to verify she would teach it correctly.



I also think it merits pointing out that the grimoire detailing what Flemeth does is not her "true grimoire." Now, whether that is significant or just a game mechanic is open to debate, but it seems like a pretty big secret, one that she would keep as safe and close to her as possible.