52 réponses à ce sujet

[Steel Majere343]

battle supposed to be insanely hard? by this i mean are all of my militia supposed to die? lol.

the last time i did this the battle happened in waves, which allowed both me, and the militia a rest sometimes.
so the fight was doable.

this time the undead army just comes in a steady stream, which quickly gets all of the militia killed (who are all armed to the teeth because of the blacksmith i talked to, plus loyd who is on the field though he does little except die) and then its just my party versus a huge horde of undead. Its clear the militia are SUPPOSED to be alive to help me with said horde.

but they die very quickly. plus turning the game to casual does nothing for my allies so all of the npcs still die, and i know they are supposed to be alive to help me. so i really have no choice but to delete the file and give the game up for a little bit till i cool down. if its a bug i may try to save red cliff again on another playthrough (no matter how many times i reload this one the same thing happens, steady stream of undead kills all of redcliff). if it is actually supposed to be that way i'm never saving redcliff again, its not a fun battle, just frusterating.

it also makes me wonder, do people even have a chance at the battle if they dont talk to the blacksmith? i mean even with good armor and weapons they die LONG before the battle is over, so without those things they must just basically keel over at the sight of the undead.

and a more important question, how has this missed patching!?, if its a bug, fix it, if its not, seek mental help for you do not know the difference between fun and frusteration lol.

[JeCy108]

whats your party? I played it one time as a fighter, sten, alister and wynne and it was cake.. I just used the defensive buff, and heal/regen on the NPC's.. and a rare potion on the main party. that play through not a single miltia died..



the first play through, as a healing mage, lil, morgan and sten almost everyone died.. But i learned a lot about how to play sence then.. i probably wouldnt lose anyone at this point in time with that same group.





its not a steady stream.. your just killing them to slow is all..

[MysteriXOX]

The first time I played, nearly everyone died. There were only a few ppl left and not even all of my party. I have improved since then so now even Lloyd stays alive, but I still lose a few militia men. I will keep practising though.. practise does make perfect.

[Steel Majere343]

JeCy108 wrote...

whats your party? I played it one time as a fighter, sten, alister and wynne and it was cake.. I just used the defensive buff, and heal/regen on the NPC's.. and a rare potion on the main party. that play through not a single miltia died..

the first play through, as a healing mage, lil, morgan and sten almost everyone died.. But i learned a lot about how to play sence then.. i probably wouldnt lose anyone at this point in time with that same group.


its not a steady stream.. your just killing them to slow is all..

LOL if i knew how to make videos and post them i would. i did some searching in the forums and it really IS a bug, i had my doubts that it was but i guess it really is.

It is a steady stream trust me, when i say this. There is just this constant incomming of undead solders, i even put it on casual to test this and still, even when they go down constantly, more take their place.

From doing a little looking into it i guess this battle varies a huge ammount. The spawn timers for the zombies are all jacked up and for some people on some playthroughs they spawn like crazy, others  have up to 10 minuts of waiting before the next wave finally shows up.

as i said the first time i did this it was easy. I had like a minute of waiting in between waves, which gave me and the militia needed rest.

this time though, they just keep comming, my militia gets no rest, which causes them to die, them dying causes me to have no help, me having no help causes me to die due to huge amounts of enemies.

so really it all goes back to the screwy spawn timers.

[Steel Majere343]

anyways, bioware, please fix this, this game on the whole (counting the DLCs) has cost me well over 100 bucks. for that amount, it should almost be a law that you fix all of the buggy crap.



and from the huge list that comes up when you search the forums about the redcliff difficulty, its pretty clear that the people have spoken on this and deem this battle a waste of life.



the battle would be more appropriate if there were no other waves of undead. If it were just the ones that were already there when you get down there, that would make sense. and be an appropriate challenge for the level we are talking about, which is like 7 or 8 usually.



due to this stupid fight iv wasted a lot of hours, needless to say i'll be more hesitent when purchasing dragon age 2, i'll first read the forums and see if any of these types of things appear.

[Zjarcal]

I've heard of some bugs in this fight where some undead may get stuck in the scenery, causing an endless wave of them to keep coming.

However what you describe seems different, since you say that you're overwhelmed from the start. Well, I never felt like I got much of a respite in that battle on the many times I've done it (it's one of my favorite battles in the game, I just keep redoing it over and over), so I don't know if you're supposed to have moments of "cooldown" during the fight. The way I see it, it IS supposed to be wave after wave until you kill them all.

For the record, the battle is indeed hard if you intend to keep everyone alive. However it is by no means an unfair fight even if you do it straight out of Lothering, which was my case in this playthrough. I even managed to keep Lloyd alive this time and with no healer! It was impossible to avoid the death of two militia though. A healer is almost mandatory in order to keep every single soldier alive.

If you leave the battle for later though (like I did on my first playthrough, where Redcliffe was my last main quest), the battle is really, really easy.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 05 août 2010 - 07:57 .

[EccentricSage]

1) Did you get Dwyne and his thugs to help? They help a LOT. You can also get the tavern guy to help.



2) Make sure you have your party well equipped for the task.



-Mages should be in robes with defensive enchantments and accessories that make them harder to hit, their main type of magic more powerful, and reduces hostility. Abilities that control the field by freezing, petrifying, parilizing, stunning, etc are best for a battle like at Redcliff. Spirit healer tree is superior to the tree in Creation magic.... It is also good to have shielding spells to protect your mage if the enemies suddenly decide to attack. You should focus the basic staff attacks on the enemy your party is atracking, but use other spells when neccessary to slow or temporarily hold off enemies that are on the fringes or who are attacking allies who are low on health.



Personally my best Redcliff so far was with PC mage, Morrigan, Alistair, and Zevran. What combination of party members works best depends entirely upon how you build them and your strategy.



-Rogues should have light armor and accessories that reduce hostility, or make them harder to his, boost their defense ratings, or regenerate their stamina. You can get a really good sword from that girl in the chantry if you help her find her brother. Save beforehand, though, as getting the blade from them is a bit tricky. Rogues should be specialized and equipped for two handed combat... they do MASSIVE DPS when built right and well armed... far more than warriors. Use your rogue or rogues to attack darkspawn who are already being damaged by another character. Always try to attack from behind. Always use good poisons during major battles.



-Warriors should have heavy or massive armor, though sometimes medium will for well for the first half of the game if you have a special set of Silverite, for example. You need to use your warriors to draw large numbers of enemies away from the allies, relying on their armor or shield skills to protect them long enough for the allies, and any rogues and mages to deal massive damage quickly. Focus all attacks on a single enemy, then move to the next as it falls. Preferably attack the enemies who are attacking your most vulnerable party members or most injured NPC allies first. Make sure a two handed warrior has heavy or massive armor, and a deep enough stamina pool to use special attacks as well as indomible. Stamina boosting or restoring items are usefull for two handed warriors. Sword and Shield warriors need to focus more on a good balance of strength, agility, and cunning rather than a deep stamina pool. Lacking Indomible, they will rely on agility to stay on their feet. They usually have plenty of stamina if you have them in medium to heavy ranged armor, so make the most out of their basic low cost shield abilities. Precise striking is important to a sword and shield warrior as they are much slower than a rogue, so you have to make every attack count.



All warriors should have first tier poison making ability and should use quality poisons in major battles. All warriors should have abilities that will draw enemies to them.

[EccentricSage]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

LOL
if i knew how to make videos and post them i would. i did some
searching in the forums and it really IS a bug, i had my doubts that it
was but i guess it really is.

It is a steady stream trust me,
when i say this. There is just this constant incomming of undead
solders, i even put it on casual to test this and still, even when they
go down constantly, more take their place.

From doing a little
looking into it i guess this battle varies a huge ammount. The spawn
timers for the zombies are all jacked up and for some people on some
playthroughs they spawn like crazy, others  have up to 10 minuts of
waiting before the next wave finally shows up.

as i said the
first time i did this it was easy. I had like a minute of waiting in
between waves, which gave me and the militia needed rest.

this
time though, they just keep comming, my militia gets no rest, which
causes them to die, them dying causes me to have no help, me having no
help causes me to die due to huge amounts of enemies.

so really it all goes back to the screwy spawn timers.

I agree the spawn timers shouldn't be so random.  I hadn't known there was a glitch that caused it to varry by that much.  The times I've played it it was always a pretty steady streem of them... when you see a group of them heading for a baracade opening, maybe try useing grenades and area of effect spells to do some damage before they reach you and to slow them down.

Steel Majere343 wrote...

anyways, bioware, please fix this, this game on the whole (counting the DLCs) has cost me well over 100 bucks. for that amount, it should almost be a law that you fix all of the buggy crap.

and from the huge list that comes up when you search the forums about the redcliff difficulty, its pretty clear that the people have spoken on this and deem this battle a waste of life.

the battle would be more appropriate if there were no other waves of undead. If it were just the ones that were already there when you get down there, that would make sense. and be an appropriate challenge for the level we are talking about, which is like 7 or 8 usually.

due to this stupid fight iv wasted a lot of hours, needless to say i'll be more hesitent when purchasing dragon age 2, i'll first read the forums and see if any of these types of things appear.

BS.

Redcliff is one of the most epic battles in the game.  The whole point of the battle is that you are under seige  from hords of undead bweing sent at you in waves, trying to wear you down.  The whole point is that you have to strategise and adapt to differing scenarios in this game in order to do well.  If you find this battle too difficult on easy, then YOU are NOT PLAYING THE GAME CORECTLY.  Don't try to ruin it for those of us who baught DA:O specificly FOR chalenging gameplay that does NOT relly on grinding up stats and god modeing.  There are plenty of easy time wasters like that on the market already.  I can totally agree that the spawn timer should be looked at for a possible glich, but completely getting rid of that aspect of the battle just because you don't like it is rediculous.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 05 août 2010 - 08:11 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Had a perfect (no one died) run on my DW warrior. S&S Alistair with Calian's armor, Bulwark of the True King and Blightblade. Leliana with pieced together armor and a longbow, Wynne with starting robes and Cailin's Arms (AW secondary). First part I had everyone get a bow/staff and held position and just arrowed every undead as it appeared. Didn't even get to the fire trap until the very end and it was over before Alistair finished switching/toggling sustains on.



Lower Redcliff was more hectic but Wynn with Cleansing Aura on kept all the villagers alive while the rest of us hit the undead. Used the breaks between waves to reposition myself, but left companions to AI. No one died, not even Loyd from the tavern, and I wanted him too.

[Zjarcal]

EccentricSage wrote...

BS.

Redcliff is one of the most epic battles in the game.  The whole point of the battle is that you are under seige  from hords of undead bweing sent at you in waves, trying to wear you down.

I agree. The idea behind the battle is that a whole town has been getting massacred night after night, to the point where probably more than half of the village population has been killed.

Considering the sense of urgency with which Bann Teagan asks you to please help, it's clear that he fears that the incoming attack may be the final one. If the battle had been nothing but a few undead that could be easily dispatched, it would've been a major downer. This is why I always do Redcliffe first, to increase the challenge of the battle (due to the lower level of my character) and make it feel much more epic.

It's easily one of my favorite battles in the game, right up there with the Ser Cauthrien battle.

[JeCy108]

well the last time i played it..  on the top section, i had one break. right in the middle..  the rest of the time wynne just healed, and i used mana potions.  I used small heals on my guys.  Also used her group  regen power and the stamina regen on my guys.

then i leave the other group up top, and my group comes down.. that battle there are no breaks,  Just heal, and use single  regen and heal on the NPC's,   and the group regen and stamina regen on the group memebers you control

I basically took out the ogre first,  then did my best to tank the guys, my last time was a sheild fighter, while wynne kept all the NPC's up.  then i used sten to go hit the archers,  lil helped me out

definatly a fun battlem  did it on hard..  this play through going hard again..  Ill up it on the next time through, gonna play as a reaver sheild/sword  next

[mousestalker]

It depends upon who is in your party. If you do Redcliffe early before you have Wynne and before Morrigan can heal, it can be tricky. If you do it last, when you have Wynne or if Morrigan has hexes and crowd control, then it can be walkover.

If you have a mage that knows 'Heal', she can heal the villagers. If you've fought the battle several times, and it sounds as though you've replayed it a few, you will have noticed that while the zombies start at different points, they all head to the same point, then scatter out again. Try to engage them with your companions before they start to scatter. Pause a lot. Try to anticipate where the zombies are headed. They only follow a few paths. Position your guys on those paths to fight them before the villagers can get attacked.

Use sweep attacks when the zombies get bunched if you have them. Cone of cold is just lovely in this fight. Glyphs of paralysis and repulsion can be used strategically here, to block entries into the village square and funnel the zombies. Your fighters should use taunt as much as they can to focus the zombies' ire on them. If its early, take Leli off of her bow and have her backstab with dual daggers. If it's later, then she should use scattershot, critical and arrow of slaying as much as possible with suppressing fire active.

Modifié par mousestalker, 05 août 2010 - 01:06 .

[EccentricSage]

if it's too early for scattershot and arrow of slaying, but you have Zevran, use Zevran. Lelian is a wimpy dual wielder. I make a point of getting Zev ASAP because he starts off a couple levels higher than your other party members and his starter armor is actually pretty high level for that early in the game, and he is specialized in DW, and if you are playing on a high difficulty, Mark may be a useful skill. (I find Lel utterly useless until late in the game, at which point my mages are so powerful I'd still rather them than her. e__e)

[FiliusMartis]

I'm fairly certain that you can't heal anyone outside your party if you're playing on a console... which makes no sense, but it makes it  more difficult. If that's part of your issue you can try using two defenders/tanks to keep the hate on people you CAN heal. I'm fairly sure glyphs of warding and the like will help any allies, so use them too. If you're in a real bind, you can try placing some glyphs of repulsion around weak npc allies. They should use ranged weapons to help you and stay in the safe areas you created.

Modifié par FiliusMartis, 05 août 2010 - 01:31 .

[Itkovian]

Both fights generally involve a constant stream of enemies, and that is pretty much the point.

To ensure the villagers survive, you will need to have some experience under your belt and good knowledge of how the game works, and generally prepare your party for that fight beforehand.

In short, if this is the first time you play the game, don't worry about it: you will lose people.

One useful hint however is to load up on crowd control (cone of cold is especially good), and have your healer heal the NPCs as well when needed.

Itkovian

[Rvlion]

Everytime I go to Redcliff I make sure that I have at least 1 Spirit Healer with maxed spells for the field, this 4th spell you learn makes the whole battle easy to the point that you can just select your mage and do nothing except make sure you don't run out of mana.
Always make sure that you have the dwarf and his 2 thugs, the elven spy from the tavern and 1 spirit healer with maxed spells and you should be all right for all the battles, If you manage to get Haste spell before going to redcliff you will even be in the town faster then the messenger.

I never bother about the Tavern keeper, he comes unarmed and ruines my chances to buy or sell in Redcliff if he dies. The maid is cute, but only good for buying and not selling.

Played Redcliff in both Easy and Normal mode so far.

Modifié par Rvlion, 05 août 2010 - 02:59 .

[DWSmiley]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

No one died, not even Loyd from the tavern, and I wanted him too.

I always appoint my best warrior as Lloyd's personal bodyguard because I want his magic ring. 

[Wilall77]

What magic ring does Lloyd have? Everytime I play he gets himself killed pretty quick.

[caradoc2000]

Wilall77 wrote...

What magic ring does Lloyd have? Everytime I play he gets himself killed pretty quick.

This one

[balmung03]

JeCy108 wrote...

well the last time i played it..  on the top section, i had one break. right in the middle..  the rest of the time wynne just healed, and i used mana potions.  I used small heals on my guys.  Also used her group  regen power and the stamina regen on my guys.

then i leave the other group up top, and my group comes down.. that battle there are no breaks,  Just heal, and use single  regen and heal on the NPC's,   and the group regen and stamina regen on the group memebers you control

I basically took out the ogre first,  then did my best to tank the guys, my last time was a sheild fighter, while wynne kept all the NPC's up.  then i used sten to go hit the archers,  lil helped me out

definatly a fun battlem  did it on hard..  this play through going hard again..  Ill up it on the next time through, gonna play as a reaver sheild/sword  next

Just wondering, when and where does this ogre show up?  It might be due to how I usually play on normal (I breeze through character creation and other games have trained me not to adjust difficulty mid-game), but I've never seen an ogre during the Redcliffe siege.  Unless you're talking about the enemies in Redcliffe after the Landsmeet, since there are two of them.  Also, I don't remember any of the undead using archery, so my same question applies to that.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

That bit sounds like the revision after the Landsmeet right before the final battles of the game.

[Steel Majere343]

im on console so i cant heal anyone outside of my party.  im all down for an epic fight but some of you are not understanding.

the game clearly expects at least some militia to survive. im not saying i can't win at all, im saying i want to get through the battle as intended.. Not just me versus a horde of undead that i have to put it on easy to battle against.

thats the part that i hate, how my entire militia dies. Not that i believe the undead are unfair, but i mean COME ON. I have every single upgrade available, well the only two that really help the villigers are the blacksmith and loyd but i have both of those.

So thats why i asked is it even possible if you DONT have the upgrades?

and clearly we have differing opinions of what makes a battle epic. All of my militia dying while i can do nothing to save them and ending up with me versus 20 undead is not epic to me. Uldred was an epic fight, the litany helped me keep adds away and uldred himself was huge and cool looking.

the dragon was an epic fight, a fight where all the allies i am supposed to have die in the first minut is not epic.

Modifié par Steel Majere343, 05 août 2010 - 08:11 .

[Steel Majere343]

Itkovian wrote...

Both fights generally involve a constant stream of enemies, and that is pretty much the point.
To ensure the villagers survive, you will need to have some experience under your belt and good knowledge of how the game works, and generally prepare your party for that fight beforehand.
In short, if this is the first time you play the game, don't worry about it: you will lose people.
One useful hint however is to load up on crowd control (cone of cold is especially good), and have your healer heal the NPCs as well when needed.
Itkovian

thats the thing, i'v tried not worrying about it, that is what gets every one of them killed and then me trying to fight this massive horde in the end.

Obviously this wont get fixed due to the amount of people who apparently enjoy this kind of thing. which is too bad for the rest of us.

I wouldnt care if the undead came in a steady stream if it was reasonable for the allies i was given. but its not. in reality its just a poorly planned battle. Its obvious not all of them are supposed to die. but they do, and the battle should not be that epic since the game advises you go to redcliff first you should not need to have a full spirit healer or something to keep these bastards alive. With all the upgrades i did before the fight i expected them to require little babysitting and to be pretty good.

If they just made the militia stronger, like 2 or 3 times as much health it would solve all these complaints.

[Zjarcal]

If ALL the militia are dying on you then I don't know what to say. Even at level 7-8 I've been able to keep almost everyone alive.

And for the record, it wouldn't be unreasonable for more than half or nearly all of the militia to die. Keep in mind that if you refuse to help in Redcliffe, EVERYONE dies, so what the game is suggesting is that your party was the one that made the difference, not the militia. After all, they're not trained soldiers, just plain villagers who are frightened and demoralized, while the enemy consists of undead creatures who don't know the meaning of the word pain. It's not exactly a fair battle for them unless you show up.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 05 août 2010 - 08:38 .

[FiliusMartis]

What kind of party are you working with? There are talents which will AOE your allies, such as rally, and glyphs are helpful. If you tell us what kind of talents you have at your disposal, maybe we can come up with something, if you like?