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Build suggestion class spread BRD 8/DwD 22/RDD 10


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#1
KidMiracleman

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Not sure if this is the right place but I could not find a build suggestion forum. 

thoughts on this build??


1 (1) Bard Toughness
2 (2) Bard
3 (3) Bard dodge
4 (4) Bard constitution
5 (5) Bard lore 8
6 (1) RDD blind fight
7 (2) RDD
8 (3) RDD strength
9 (4) RDD extend spell
10 (5) RDD
11 (6) RDD change alignment to lawful good
12 (1) DD strength great fortitude
13 (2) DD
14 (3) DD
15 (4) DD weapon focus war hammer
16 (5) DD strength
17 (6) DD
18 (7) DD improved critical
19 (8) DD
20 (9) DD strength
21 (10) DD great strength
22 (7) RDD
23 (8) RDD
24 (9) RDD strength great strength
25 (10) RDD
26 (11) RDD
27 (12) RDD great strength
28 (6) Bard charisma 
29 (7) Bard put 30 skill point in perform tumble UMD discipline and concentration
30 (13) DD great strength
31 (14) DD epic weapon focus war hammer
32 (15) DD strength
33 (16) DD Great strength
34 (17) DD
35 (18) DD Epic Prowess
36 (19) DD Strength Great Strength
37 (20) DD
38 (21) DD
39 (22) DD Great Strength Epic damage reduction
40 (8) Bard constitution Max out concentration Discipline
Tumble and use magic device

Modifié par KidMiracleman, 07 août 2010 - 12:40 .


#2
HipMaestro

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I'd suggest you get involved with the Epic Character Guild group where the character builders congregate.  There are already discussion topics to help you post a build in a format that can be analyzed quickly by furnishing all the pertinent information rather than a list of feats.

Welcome aboard, amigo!

P.S. Just scanning it quickly myself (a non-epic builder), obviously you'll need an alignment hak to build it. In that case, you will need additional alignment shifts at levels 27 (to nonlawful), 29(back to lawful), and 39 (back to nonlawful).  Ouch!

Modifié par HipMaestro, 05 août 2010 - 07:55 .


#3
KidMiracleman

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thanks. the server I play on has a place where you can change alignment fairly easily

#4
Shadooow

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I played this on at one server and I think I built it a bit better, take a look there.

#5
Shia Luck

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HI. The easy way to get the format everyone here uses is with Kamiryn's character build calculator. Copy and paste what appears in the output tab and people will find it easy to analyse and respond. If you like building characters it is a wonderful tool to have.

Personally, i never play DDs sooo not got a lot to say *grin*.

Have fun :)

#6
KidMiracleman

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thanks I forgot to include those alignment changes

#7
KidMiracleman

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ShaDoOoW wrote...

I played this on at one server and I think I built it a bit better, take a look there.


thank you.  Not too much different than mine  the server I play on has
dev cricticals disabled.  I like some of the other stuff you had.  With only
8 bard now I am wondering if I should bother with things like extend spell

#8
Shadooow

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Yeah, it was made as solo build for looting one dungeon, decent AC, sufficient ab, and some buffs and ability to disarm traps/locks, devast and quite big DR. I think the best would be to get advice from someone playing on that server. Dungeons/changes in NWN are things that affect building very deeply.

For extend spell, I would not. Also what is hour/real time setting on the server you play? If its more than default (1hour = 2minutes) than most bard's spells will last quite long.

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 05 août 2010 - 11:05 .


#9
avado

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KidMiracleman wrote...
1 (1) Bard Toughness
2 (2) Bard
3 (3) Bard dodge
4 (4) Bard constitution
5 (5) Bard lore 8
6 (1) RDD blind fight
7 (2) RDD
8 (3) RDD strength
9 (4) RDD extend spell
10 (5) RDD
11 (6) RDD change alignment to lawful good
12 (1) DD strength great fortitude
13 (2) DD
14 (3) DD
15 (4) DD weapon focus war hammer
16 (5) DD strength
17 (6) DD
18 (7) DD improved critical
19 (8) DD
20 (9) DD strength
21 (10) DD great strength
22 (7) RDD
23 (8) RDD
24 (9) RDD strength great strength
25 (10) RDD
26 (11) RDD
27 (12) RDD great strength
28 (6) Bard charisma 
29 (7) Bard put 30 skill point in perform tumble UMD discipline and concentration
30 (13) DD great strength
31 (14) DD epic weapon focus war hammer
32 (15) DD strength
33 (16) DD Great strength
34 (17) DD
35 (18) DD Epic Prowess
36 (19) DD Strength Great Strength
37 (20) DD
38 (21) DD
39 (22) DD Great Strength Epic damage reduction
40 (8) Bard constitution Max out concentration Discipline
Tumble and use magic device

I dont know where to start.  You raise 3 stats, which is a no no (for a GOOD build).  I would go str, as you ONLY get EDR1 which is way too much for the stat investment.  It tells me you start with 18 con (WHAT!) when you SHOULD be starting with 18 str. 

ALso, take the AB feats (wf, ewf, ep) as early as possible. 

Without the stats, it is impossible to truly see the build.  As it stands it isnt a power build.  It is a "passable" mediocre build at best.

#10
KidMiracleman

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starting stats are

Str 15

dex 13

con 16

wis 10

int 12

cha 11



ending stats are

str 40

dex 13

con 22

wis 10

int 16

cha 16

#11
HipMaestro

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2 questions:

Why CHA 16?  You will only be able to cast level 3 spells so I would expect CHA 13 (end stat) is plenty.  Extra slots? Meh.

Why 30 pts in Perform?  You will only be able to utilize a Perform level of 15 at Bard 8 and with any CHA boosting (items, CHA modifier) probably don't even need that much (IIRC Tumble is the only skill requiring base levels).  Or is the 30 pts spread out over 5 skills?  Unclear.

I'd rather have Lingering Song in there somewhere.  1 Turn goes pretty fast when you are preoccupied.  Even Curse Song is worth considering.

Modifié par HipMaestro, 06 août 2010 - 02:08 .


#12
KidMiracleman

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certainly things to consider. maybe I could stand to have less charisma and maybe 5 or 10 perform. the build really is not going to be doing alot with the bard. thanks for the suggestions. I think I will start with less charisma and add less perform. I do like the UMD though

#13
Shia Luck

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KidMiracleman wrote...

starting stats are
Str 15
dex 13
con 16
wis 10
int 12
cha 11

ending stats are
str 40
dex 13
con 22
wis 10
int 16
cha 16


I hate to point this out but, I don't think youve calculated the stat increases over the levels correctly. To go from 15 to 40 str will take all 10 stat increases, the maximum 7 Gt strs available and the 8 from RDD. Which leaves you zero to raise con from 18 (including RDD) to 22 and INT from 14 (inc RDD) to 16 and CHA from 13 (inc RDD) to 16! Oh, and lvls 26 and 27 should say DD, not RDD

See my earlier post and use kamiryn's spreadsheet. It'll get you more replies as it is the format everyone is used to and it stops us all making silly human mistakes with the wealth of numbers.

Have fun :)

#14
KidMiracleman

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so would it be ok for me to repost the new rebuild here or should I take it someplace else???

#15
Eurypterid

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Post it here. :)

#16
HipMaestro

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KidMiracleman wrote...

so would it be ok for me to repost the new rebuild here or should I take it someplace else???

My opinion...

Just tack it onto this gem but I would change the topic title to include the class spread BRD 8/DwD 22/RDD 10 (or whatever it is, I can't figure out why the extra 2 RDD levels...edit: oh... I see Shia's clairvoyance paid off :) ).

The Kamiryn output will give the attack, armor, saves... all that stuff.  I usually paste it into a Word file and massage a bit before posting but whatever floats your boat.

Edit: thanks, Eury ;)

Modifié par HipMaestro, 06 août 2010 - 11:42 .


#17
KidMiracleman

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I hate to point this out but, I don't think youve calculated the stat increases over the levels correctly. To go from 15 to 40 str will take all 10 stat increases, the maximum 7 Gt strs available and the 8 from RDD. Which leaves you zero to raise con from 18 (including RDD) to 22 and INT from 14 (inc RDD) to 16 and CHA from 13 (inc RDD) to 16! Oh, and lvls 26 and 27 should say DD, not RDD

See my earlier post and use kamiryn's spreadsheet. It'll get you more replies as it is the format everyone is used to and it stops us all making silly human mistakes with the wealth of numbers.

Have fun :)

[/quote]

Just realized that I did not point out that I would using a subclass of half blue dragon  that subclass gives you +3 str +2 con +2 int and +2 chrisma.  Does that make a difference??

#18
HipMaestro

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KidMiracleman wrote...
Just realized that I did not point out that I would using a subclass of half blue dragon  that subclass gives you +3 str +2 con +2 int and +2 chrisma.  Does that make a difference??

omg

time to make supper:o

Modifié par HipMaestro, 06 août 2010 - 11:44 .


#19
jmlzemaggo

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HipMaestro wrote...
Edit: thanks, Eury ;)

Or should you say CD? I can't believe I didn't read that signature before: 
"It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!"
Why does any body never tell me anything! Am I always the lastest to know? Maybe because I'm always the last one to translate...

Nice to see you here... Eurypterid... if Eurypterid it is... :bandit: 

#20
KidMiracleman

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extra 2 RDD levels?? you need 10 RDD levels for fire immunity

#21
Shia Luck

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HipMaestro wrote...

KidMiracleman wrote...
Just realized that I did not point out that I would using a subclass of half blue dragon  that subclass gives you +3 str +2 con +2 int and +2 chrisma.  Does that make a difference??

omg

time to make supper:o


What's for supper HIp? I can bring a rioja a shiraz or a pinot grigio. :whistle:

#22
KidMiracleman

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RACE: Dwarf

Sub Race Half Blue Dragon

ALIGNMENT:  Chaotic Good to start

PLAYABILITY:

STARTING STATS:

STR - 15
DEX - 13
CON - 16
WIS - 10
INT - 12
CHA - 11

ENDING STATS:

STR - 40
DEX - 13
CON - 22
WIS - 10
INT - 16
CHA - 15


LEVELING GUIDE:

1 (1) Bard Toughness
2 (2) Bard
3 (3) Bard curse song
4 (4) Bard constitution
5 (5) Bard lore 8
6 (6) Bard lingering song
7 (1) RDD
8 (2) RDD strength
9 (3) RDD dodge
10 (4) RDD change alignment to lawful good
11 (1) DD
12 (2) DD strength  weapon focus war hammer
13 (3) DD
14 (4) DD
15 (5) DD
16 (6) DD strength
17 (7) DD
18 (8) DD improved critical war hammer
19 (9) DD
20 (10) DD strength
21 (11) DD great strength
22 (5) RDD
23 (6) RDD
24 (7) RDD strength great strength
25 (8) RDD
26 (9) RDD
27 (10) RDD great strength change alignment to chaotic good
28 (7) bard strength put 10 skill point in perform tumble UMD discipline and concentration change alignment to lawful good
29 (12) DD
30 (13) DD great strength
31 (14) DD epic weapon focus war hammer
32 (15) DD strength
33 (16) DD Great strength
34 (17) DD
35 (18) DD Epic Prowess
36 (19) DD Strength Great Strength
37 (20) DD
38 (21) DD
39 (22) DD Great Strength Epic damage reduction change alignment to chaotic good
40 (8) Bard constitution Max out concentration Discipline
Tumble and use magic device

#23
avado

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KidMiracleman wrote...

RACE: Dwarf

Sub Race Half Blue Dragon

ALIGNMENT:  Chaotic Good to start

PLAYABILITY:

STARTING STATS:

STR - 15
DEX - 13
CON - 16
WIS - 10
INT - 12
CHA - 11

ENDING STATS:

STR - 40
DEX - 13
CON - 22
WIS - 10
INT - 16
CHA - 15

As per above, if you only need 13, WHY take 15 charisma?  And even more puzzeling is, why end on an odd number?  Maybe DD does some crazy charisma based stuff on the pw that you have failed to mention.

LEVELING GUIDE:

1 (1) Bard Toughness
2 (2) Bard
3 (3) Bard curse song
4 (4) Bard constitution (17)
5 (5) Bard lore 8
6 (6) Bard lingering song
7 (1) RDD
8 (2) RDD strength(18)
9 (3) RDD dodge
10 (4) RDD change alignment to lawful good s(20)
11 (1) DD
12 (2) DD strength(21)  weapon focus war hammer
13 (3) DD
14 (4) DD
15 (5) DD [b} MISSING FEAT[/b]
16 s
17  ) DD
18 (8) DD improved critical war hammer
19 (9) DD
20 (10) DD strength(23)
21 (11) DD great strength(24)
22 (5) RDD
23 (6) RDD
24 (7) RDD strength great strength(26)
25 (8) RDD
26 (9) RDD
27 (10) RDD great strength change alignment to chaotic good(31)
28 (7) bard strength put 10 skill point in perform tumble UMD discipline and concentration change alignment to lawful good s(32)
29 (12) DD
30 (13) DD great strength(33)
31 (14) DD epic weapon focus war hammer
32 (15) DD strength(34)
33 (16) DD Great strength(35)
34 (17) DD
35 (18) DD Epic Prowess
36 (19) DD Strength Great Strength(37)
37 (20) DD
38 (21) DD
39 (22) DD Great Strength (38)Epic damage reduction change alignment to chaotic good
40 (8) Bard constitution Max out concentration Discipline  s (39) assume Str add here ?
Tumble and use magic device

Trying to get to your number on str...  maybe my math is incorrect.

KidMiracleman wrote...
Just realized that I did not point out that I would using a subclass of half blue dragon  that subclass gives you +3 str +2 con +2 int and +2 chrisma.  Does that make a difference??

I think, after about 10 posts to your idea, that you WONDER if it is important to mention this... it is beyond me.  I have been an active member of the ECB since 2004 and in all my days...
FIrst, when posting to a nwn forum, we ASSUME that you are using VANILLA nwn!  There are no subraces, for example.  SO YES, it makes a difference.
Then, when you show ONE con add, yet somehow magically get to 21 to qualify for EDR from 16, YES, it makes a difference!

You take 2 bard feats (curse and lingering song) yet only 8 lvls of bard....  I do not understand the investment in Con for 3/- dr?  If you are going for it, GO FOR IT!  There is little difference between 38 and 40 str (assume your numbers are correct), for 9/- DR.   To me, its like going for planar turning (which is one of the hardest feats in nwn to use effectively in a build cuz you end up KILLING your character for it) and then at lv 39 saying, NAH, i dont need Planar after all. 
A note on your skills, take tumble ONLY to 40.  More will do you no good.
I think im with the others on this.  What's for supper?  (if you get more help on THIS guy, consider yourself blessed as most of us dont like to have our time wasted...)

Modifié par avado, 07 août 2010 - 01:46 .


#24
KidMiracleman

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[/quote]
As per above, if you only need 13, WHY take 15 charisma?  And even more puzzeling is, why end on an odd number?  Maybe DD does some crazy charisma based stuff on the pw that you have failed to mention.

[quote]
can't be helped.  no way to get less than a 15 chrisma

A note on your skills, take tumble ONLY to 40.  More will do you no good.
I think im with the others on this.  What's for supper?  (if you get more help on THIS guy, consider yourself blessed as most of us dont like to have our time wasted...)[/quote]

And you wonder why more people do not want to play.  Your attitude sucks.  You drive people away with your superiority.  If you do not want to help do not help.  I thank all who took the time to help me.  Sorry if you feel you have wasted your time I do not think you have since you have helped me out immensely. 

#25
HipMaestro

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Shia: Should have come to your house for supper.  All we had was Friday Stir-fry.  But I do recall a Cabernet Sauvignon that made the table ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

avado said... ...You take 2 bard feats (curse and lingering song) yet only 8 lvls of bard....

Blame that one on me, avado.  I figured with enough feats the OP may be able to get some use out of the 8 Bard levels other than just as dumps and getting enough lore.   I like Bard 16 DwD 14 myself, get the bonus feat, 9/- DR and sing a decent song.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, now where were we? ...

Here's a sample of a Character Build using the information you posted reorganized the best I can.

Kamiryn's Calculator doesn't allow subraces so you would need to do the math yourself to figure out the effects of the ability increases on AB, AC, Saves, HPs, Skillpoints, etc... etc.... etc.  I made a stab at inserting the subrace
information but got tired of it so the ball is now in your court.

Comments:

Your build skipped a feat at level 15 so I bumped up the one from level 18 and inserted KD (one of my favs) into the lvl 18 slot.  Choose what feat you like.

Unless you get taunted often where you play, I would ignore Concentration (you are not casting in combat, not with this build) and put all those points in Spellcraft in groups of 5 for the saves.  Or maybe split between SC, Tumb & UMD.  Curse Song should help take care of pesky taunters anyways.

As previously mentioned, make Perform = 15 for Bard lvl 8 and that is enough.

And if I have understood the effects of the subrace, you should be able to leave CHA at 9 to start (9+2+2=13).

To be honest, I believe the community on the server you intend to play would have better build tips when it comes to playing subraces.  At least this should get you used to analyzing the basics.  Maybe getting an honest-to-god build form posted here will help others make useful suggestions for you.  Then all you need to add are the Pros & Cons.

Cheerio!
Hip


edit:  WTH is it with all the white space  and line breaks these boards put into unformatted pasted text?  Geez!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brd(8)-RDD(10)-DwD(22)

Race: Dwarf
Sub race: Half Blue Dragon

Abilities: Starting (Final)
STR: 15 [+3] = 18 (41)
DEX: 13 (13)
CON: 16 [+2] = 18 (22)
WIS: 10 (10)
INT: 12 [+2] = 14 (16)
CHA: 11 [+2] = 13 (15)

Hitpoints: 636 + 80? [+2 Con]
Skillpoints: 165 + 40? [+2 Int]
Saving Throws (F/W/R): 28/26/20
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +2, Traps: +1, Poison: +2
BAB: 27
AB (max, naked): 45 (melee), 29 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 21/32
Spell Casting: Bard(3)
Alignment Changes: 4

Dwarf: (Darkvision, Defensive Training vs. Giants, Stonecunning, Hardiness vs. Poison, Hardiness vs. Spells, Offensive Training vs. Goblinoids, Offensive Training vs. Orcs, Skill Affinity: Lore)
Half Blue Dragon: [+3 str] [+2 con] [+2 int]  [+2 cha]

01: Bard(1): Toughness
02: Bard(2)
03: Bard(3): Curse Song
04: Bard(4): CON+1 (19)
05: Bard(5)
06: Bard(6): Lingering Song
07: RDD(1)
08: RDD(2): STR+1 (21)
09: RDD(3): Dodge
10: RDD(4): (STR=23)
11: DwD(1): {Defensive Stance}, *Alignment Change*
12: DwD(2): STR+1 (24) WF: Warhammer, {Def Awareness I}
13: DwD(3)
14: DwD(4)
15: DwD(5): Imp Crit: Warhammer
16: DwD(6): STR+1, (STR=25)
17: DwD(7)
18: DwD(8): KD
19: DwD(9)
20: DwD(10): STR+1 (26)
21: DwD(11): Great Str I (27)
22: RDD(5)
23: RDD(6)
24: RDD(7): STR+1(28) Great Str II (29) (CON=21)
25: RDD(8)
26: RDD(9): (INT=16)
27: RDD(10): Great Str III (34), (CHA=15)
28: Bard(7): STR+1 (35)  *Alignment Change*
29: DwD(12): *Alignment Change*
30: DwD(13): Great Str IV, (STR=36)
31: DwD(14): EWF: Warhammer
32: DwD(15): STR+1 (37)
33: DwD(16): Great Str V (38)
34: DwD(17)
35: DwD(18): Epic Prowess
36: DwD(19): STR+1 (39) Great Str VI (40)
37: DwD(20)
38: DwD(21)
39: DwD(22): Great Strength VII (41), EDR I
40: Bard(8): CON+1 (22) *Alignment Change*

Skills
01: Conc(4), Disc(4), Perform(4), Tumble(4), UMD(4)
02: Conc(1), Disc(1), Perform(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1)
03: Disc(1), Perform(1), Save(3)
04: Disc(1), Perform(1), Save(6)
05: Disc(1), Lore(8), Perform(1), Save(1)
06: Disc(1), Perform(1), Save(4)
07: Conc(5), Disc(1), Save(1)
08: Disc(1), Save(3)
09: Disc(1), Save(5)
10: Disc(1), Save(7)
11: Disc(1), Save(9)
12: Disc(1), Save(11)
13: Disc(1), Save(13)
14: Disc(1), Save(15)
15: Disc(1), Save(17)
16: Disc(1), Save(19)
17: Disc(1), Save(21)
18: Disc(1), Save(23)
19: Disc(1), Save(25)
20: Disc(1), Save(27)
21: Disc(1), Save(29)
22: Conc(10), Disc(1), Save(21)
23: Disc(1), Save(23)
24: Disc(1), Save(25)
25: Disc(1), Save(27)
26: Disc(1), Save(29)
27: Disc(1), Save(32)
28: Conc(1), Disc(1), Perform(6), Tumble(15), UMD(15)
29: Conc(1), Disc(1), Save(2)
30: Conc(1), Disc(1), Save(4)
31: Conc(1), Disc(1), Save(6)
32: Disc(1), Save(9)
33: Disc(1), Save(12)
34: Disc(1), Save(15)
35: Disc(1), Save(18)
36: Disc(1), Save(21)
37: Disc(1), Save(24)
38: Disc(1), Save(27)
39: Disc(1), Save(30)
40: Conc(10), Disc(1), Tumble(10), UMD(15)

Final: Conc 34(39), Disc 43(57), Lore 8(20), Perf 15(16), Tumb 30(31), UMD 35(36), Unused: 40

Modifié par HipMaestro, 07 août 2010 - 04:28 .