35 réponses à ce sujet

[SometimesSpring]

Okay before someone rants at me for changing my characters too much, let it be known I finished my Cleric/Ranger solo in record time since I made it a minimal-killing game. After that, I went browsing through some folders to clean it up and I found two BG2 saved games: character I had rolled with insane stats about two years back and never really got around to playing. One is a human Avenger with a total of 91 in stats and the other is an elven Archer with 94. Two VERY lucky rolls. Unfortunately, my game setup (mods, et. al) have changed since then and I don't want to use these files in case some buggy stuff crops up. But I have decided to solo an Archer.

Now before anyone rants at me for playing naught but solo, let it be known that I roleplay and powergame at the same time. I feel that CHARNAME does not want the responsibility on anyone else nor does he wish to endanger others, especially after Khalid and Dynaheir were killed for being associated with him. When I solo, I take Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheira through Irenicus' dungeon and then ask them to leave after Imoen's arrest. I have played with parties of four, five, even six. I just find that exploring different kits and classes is easier and more fun when solo.

On to the main question then. I have the Generic Archer kit from Tactics installed and have been comparing two builds. I'd appreciate if you guys could help me pick out the best of the lot.

Elven Archer (Ranger kit) wielding longbows, darts, and dual swords

Advantages: +1 to hit, +1 to damage with ranged weapons per 3 levels
2 free pips in two-weapon style
elf race grants bonus to DEX
ranger stronghold grants a free daily summon item
priest spells up to level 3
stealth

Disadvantages: Cannot use greater than leather armor
elf race causes penalty to CON
cannot use certain items (Amulet of Power IIRC)
slower leveling than a fighter

VERSUS

Halfling Generic Archer (Fighter kit) wielding crossbows, darts, and warhammers with a sheild

Advantages: Halfling penalty to STR can be overridden with use of STR belt
bonus to DEX
bonus to saving throws with 18 CON (also makes for good HP gain)
Can sacrifice WIS and CHA to put 16 points in INT to fight Illithids
Faster leveling
Can specialize in melee weapons

Disadvantages: Cannot use Belt of Inertial Barrier as slot would be taken by STR belt
No access to summons beyond Spider Figurine and Horn of Valhalla
No priest spells
No stealth
Must spend 3 points to max two-weapon style

From a roleplaying perspective, a crossbow-wielding elven archer seems to me to be an abomination. I won't even consider short bows. However, a halfling using a crossbow is both good in terms of RPing and the Firetooth hits harder (and is available for just 15k GP as soon as you have the coin), especially when combined with enchanted bolts with added thac0/damage/effects. The elf however, as noted, has access to priest spells. Three emergency castings of Sanctuary can be helpful of course, but the halfling has the famous bonus saving throws and can put two pips in melee weapons of his choice, making him a better melee contender. And let's face it, there are going to be instances when meleeing will be a near-must (the slaver ship, the pocket plane tests, and other scenarios with limited space).

Neither can cast Improved Haste from a scroll/spell but must rely on items i.e. Ring of Gaxx, Amulet of Cheetah Speed. The Darkfire Bow allows you to cast Improved Haste, and the halfling can always equip it, cast, and switch to the Firetooth. So it looks a little better for the halfling in powergaming terms, and I'm sure I can RP him well, but those two free points in two-weapon style and the whole elven archer concept are preventing me from creating this character outright.

What are your thoughts? Which build should I go for? Why?

 Thanks 

[Irrbloss]

Unless the Generic Archer kit also gains +1 to hit and damage the Archer will be greatly superior in ranged combat. But if you limit yourself to long bows you'll basically have to use melee weapons every time you run into something requiring anything better than +2.

No stealth is no big deal as there are plenty of invisibility items in the game.

Unless you're up for some real tedium you'll not want to use a shield or a second weapon.

There are more summoning items available than the Horn of Valhalla and the Black Spider Figurine. There's Ras +2, Spectral Brand, the Ring of Djinni Summoning, the Efreeti Bottle, the Air, Fire and Earth Staffs etc.

The ranger Archer also gets Called Shot, which can be used to kill enemies by draining their STR. You don't get XP (no big deal since you're solo) but is another way of dealing with damage immunity/resistance.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 05 août 2010 - 12:26 .

[SometimesSpring]

Irrbloss wrote...

Unless the Generic Archer kit also gains +1 to hit and damage the Archer will be greatly superior in ranged combat. But if you limit yourself to long bows you'll basically have to use melee weapons every time you run into something requiring anything better than +2.

No stealth is no big deal as there are plenty of invisibility items in the game.

Unless you're up for some real tedium you'll not want to use a shield or a second weapon.

There are more summoning items available than the Horn of Valhalla and the Black Spider Figurine. There's Ras +2, Spectral Brand, the Ring of Djinni Summoning, the Efreeti Bottle, the Air, Fire and Earth Staffs etc.

The kit does gain a +1 to hit and damage per 3 levels, I'm sorry I forgot to mention that vital bit of information. And I figure that it is the better choice after reading your post, so I am going to make the halfling version. Why not avail of some free bonus saving throws?  Also, this would enable me to have a +4 weapon as my primary means of attacking, upgraded to +5 once I touch ToB. I could keep some backup melee weapons. Namely I was considering FoA or DoE coupled with Belm for SoA and an upgraded FoA and Runehammer in ToB.

I thought the same about stealth. The Ring of Air Control, Ring of Gaxx, Improved Cloak of Protection +2, etc. combined with Potions of Invisibility and the Cloak of Non-Detection and Boots of Speed will emulate the Ranger's stealth, perhaps even to a better degree.

Summons screw me over, because I never really think it through and recall all those items you mentioned. Spectral Brand comes late in ToB, but the Ras can be had quite soon in SoA, even sooner if you "borrow" Jan to swipe it. 

But seriously, I'm going to take your summoning item suggestions, look for more, and hunt them all down to amass an enormous army. Well, five of them anyway. 

Going to roll until I get a 90+ and aim for: 17 STR, 19 DEX, 18 CON, 16 INT, XX WIS, XX CHA

Now the REAL task begins: hunting on various online image libraries and Google Images for a picture of a halfling wielding a crossbow... 

EDIT: Found one. I'm going to disregard the fact that he's got a mandolin around his back and is clearly a bard. The xbow is clearly more prominent. 

Also, Irrbloss, why do you discourage the use of shields and offhand weapons?

Modifié par SometimesSpring, 05 août 2010 - 12:39 .

[Enuhal]

I would really recommend using shortbows. Seriously, the shortbows you find in the game are usually superior to any other ranged weapons in every way.
However, limited to these two choices, I would say the archer is indeed superior by far, mainly because of the +1hit/damadge per 3 levels mentioned by Irrbloss. It is really a huge, huge difference.

edit: okay, posted this at the same time as you did. If the halfling has the same bonus, he might... well, be as good as the archer. But still, I wouldn't use crossbows if I were you

Modifié par Enuhal, 05 août 2010 - 12:41 .

[SometimesSpring]

Enuhal wrote...

I would really recommend using shortbows. Seriously, the shortbows you find in the game are usually superior to any other ranged weapons in every way.
However, limited to these two choices, I would say the archer is indeed superior by far, mainly because of the +1hit/damadge per 3 levels mentioned by Irrbloss. It is really a huge, huge difference.

edit: okay, posted this at the same time as you did. If the halfling has the same bonus, he might... well, be as good as the archer. But still, I wouldn't use crossbows if I were you

The Generic Archer kit gains the +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels just like an Archer. Moreover, the kit also gains Called Shot once per 4 levels with the same effects as that of the Archer. The advantages over the Archer are that the GA can put two ** in any melee weapon he chooses and reach grandmastery in slings and darts if he chooses. The armor limitations are the same as the Archer's. The downside is a lack of stealth, which as I mentioned above can be compensated for, and a lack of spellcasting, and let's be honest, three spells per level up to third level is no big loss.

As for weaponry, I created a dummy elven Archer in ToB and using Shadowkeeper, gave him grandmastery in longbows, short bows, and cross bows. I also gave him the Firetooth +5, the Taralash +5, the Short Bow of Gesen and the Tuigan Bow +1. I used the CLUA Console to cheat in 5 demon knights (the ones you fight in Kuo-Toa lair) at a time. To simulate my game, I picked the ammo I'd most use: for the bows, it was the Quiver of Plenty +1 and the Case of Plenty +1 for the crossbow.

The Tuigan Bow fired rapidly but didn't have a high damage output per arrow. The Gesen Bow was slower than the Tuigan Bow but had a MUCH higher damage output, and gives 20% electric resistance (not very necessary). The Taralash Bow was not as good as I expected, so I cheated in a Strong Arm +2 (which addes +3 damage on top of the thac0 boost) and the damage picked up. The Firetooth however, with its high damage, additional fire damage, and added on Bolt +1 damage was unmatchable. I took out the 5 demon knights with the Firetooth faster than the others. Four attacks per round doing an average of I'd say 28-34 damage per hit. With Improved Haste and Critical Strike, that's eight max damage hits per round. With GWW, it's 28-34 per hit at 10 attacks a round.

Clear winner, by a mile: Firetooth.

[Irrbloss]

SometimesSpring wrote...

Also, Irrbloss, why do you discourage the use of shields and offhand weapons?

Because it's a pain to switch between using a two-handed weapon and using a weapon plus a off hand item (shield or second weapon). Obviously it depends on your tolerance, but I'd use a single weapon or a two-handed weapon for melee.

[Morbidest]

I notice your halfling is set up to use warhammers, so you could plan to get Crom Fayr and then you have S=25 and an empty slot for the Inertial Barrier Belt. And of course in ToB you have Firetooth crossbows, so the little guy could wind up more powerful than the elven archer, and does have the superior "small people" saving throws to keep him going until Chap. 6 of SoA.

[SometimesSpring]

Irrbloss wrote...

Because it's a pain to switch between using a two-handed weapon and using a weapon plus a off hand item (shield or second weapon). Obviously it depends on your tolerance, but I'd use a single weapon or a two-handed weapon for melee.

Well now, that's novel. I never even thought of convenience. Yeah it does get a bit much, but I figure my melee moments will be few and far between, especially after I get my Boots of Speed. Your idea does hold merit though. Since the most likely type of damage I will need aside from my crossbow is bludgeoning/crushing, I figure having FoA as a secondary unit could be an option. I could carry Crom for those moments when I need really high melee thac0, Belm for when I need that extra APR, and pair either with FoA. That way I just need to spend 5 points on melee weapons: 2 in flail, 2 in war hammer (since I'll be using Runehammer in ToB), and 1 in scimitar for Belm. Or I could cheese it and just put 2 in war hammer and Crom it up all the time, but that's a bit meh. Maybe if I was a dwarf...

Definitely need the Shield of Balduran and the Shield of Reflection for those moments, so I can just keep them in my CLUA'ed Bag of Holding - I hate inventory management - for now.

Morbidest wrote...

I notice your halfling is set up to use warhammers, so you could plan to get Crom Fayr and then you have S=25 and an empty slot for the Inertial Barrier Belt. And of course in ToB you have Firetooth crossbows, so the little guy could wind up more powerful than the elven archer, and does have the superior "small people" saving throws to keep him going until Chap. 6 of SoA.

If I'm not mistaken, the thac0 and damage bonuses from STR add up only on melee, in which case Crom grants the max +7 to hit and +14 to damage. When wielding the Firetooth, the only benefit of having 19 STR from the Hill Giant Strength Belt seems to be the weight I can carry. That aspect's importance is nullified by my Bag of Holding. Oh, and I made an early trip to Watcher's Keep after accumulating 15000 gp. Bought Firetooth with the Ring of Human Influence for 12000ish, went in, slew some golems and orogs, got the Quiver of Plenty +1, saved against a Finger of Death trap and got the Case of Plenty +1, came back to Athkatla. 

Things are going to be EASY here on out. It's almost cheesy that such a powerful weapon can be had at such an early stage in the game, but then again the same applies for the Robe of Vecna, Vhailor's Helm, etc. Now I have to save up 10000 gp and find a King's Tear to upgrade my Case with Cromwell (thank you Gibberlings3). So far, it's been fun. This is my first time playing a shorty race, and also the first time I'm using ranged weapons over melee in majority. I put one pip into short bow proficiency so I can use the Tuigan Bow with Acid Arrows when I meet the occasional Stoneskin'ed mage who's immune to fire. Also, a chance to use Arrows of Biting/Dispelling/Piercing. Next I want to get my points into my melee choices and dual wielding (which shouldn't take long I think).

I made my halfling True Neutral with a background of seeking to stop those accumulating too much power after he witnessed the rise of Sarevok. Also, that is the whole point of the quest: stopping people from getting too powerful (Irenicus and Bodhi, then The Five, then Melissan). The tragic flaw is that in seeking to keep balance, CHARNAME himself becomes the most powerful being in the Realms.  

Sorry for the rambling!

[aimlessgun]

Don't forget the improved +2 cloak for a third long duration Improved Haste. Melissan is probably the only fight you'd need all 3 though.

For some reason I'm inspired to maybe take up the Elf archer solo that you didn't pick. Except the powergamer in me is screaming at not using Firetooth. Because wow that bow is just straight up superior to everything else in the game. And if I'm planning on soloing Ascension + improved ToB bosses, would the seriously underpowered longbows cut it?

EDIT: Rolled a 83 total stats on the first roll, decided it wasn't good enough, and got a 90 on the second roll. A good start!

Modifié par aimlessgun, 05 août 2010 - 04:56 .

[SometimesSpring]

Let me just say that this is quite possibly my favorite build. Allow me to elaborate.



Zenni Heartstring is a True Neutral level 12 male halfling Generic Archer with stats 17 (STR) 19 (DEX) 18 (CON) 16 (INT) 10 (WIS) 14 (CHA) and grandmastery in crossbows, proficiency in short bows, and specialization in flails. He wears a Helm of Balduran, Shadow Dragon Scale, a Ring of Air Control, a Ring of Air Control, and a Cloak of Non-Detection.



His primary weapon is the Firetooth +4 crossbow, purchased at Watcher's Keep. With this, he stacks the Case of Plenty +2 or Bolts of Lightning. His secondary weapon is the Tuigan Bow +1 equipped with Arrows of Acid. His melee weapon is the Flail of Ages +3, which he uses in conjunction with a Shield of the Lost.



Using the Firetooh and +2 bolts from the Case of Plenty, he strikes at an average of 28-38 damage with an addition 2 fire damage; his maximum damage is 62 + 2 fire.



MY DEAR GOD. This guy clears rooms out at an alarming rate. He has 3 APR with the Firetooth and goes up to 4 with an Oil of Speed. When he gets his first Improved Haste item, that will jump up to 6 APR. And he is yet to receive a bonus to his APR at level 13. If he does this kind of damage now, what's gonna happen further down the road when he has the best equipment?



I've taken him through the circus, the slaver ring in the Slums, Umar Hills, and the De'Arnise keep. He's about 9000 XP away from leveling and will become intensely stronger, I am sure. I definitely recommend a Firetooth-wielding archer of some sort to everyone, whether halfling or half-elf, elven or human, dwarven or half-orc. These guys are just amazing, and have fewer weaknesses than a classic Ranger-kit archer. Just my thac0 alone is mind-boggling: -11 at level 12 with the Firetooth and +2 bolts and some other stuff.

[SometimesSpring]

aimlessgun wrote...

Don't forget the improved +2 cloak for a third long duration Improved Haste. Melissan is probably the only fight you'd need all 3 though.

For some reason I'm inspired to maybe take up the Elf archer solo that you didn't pick. Except the powergamer in me is screaming at not using Firetooth. Because wow that bow is just straight up superior to everything else in the game. And if I'm planning on soloing Ascension + improved ToB bosses, would the seriously underpowered longbows cut it?

EDIT: Rolled a 83 total stats on the first roll, decided it wasn't good enough, and got a 90 on the second roll. A good start!

Hey, great to hear that you've started up an archer. You'll have a bit less HP than a halfing Generic Archer, so I'd focus on improving your defenses. Unfortunately AFAIK the only Stoneskin-casting item is in ToB so you'll have to hurry up to HLA level and get some uses of Hardiness before anything else. A curse we archers face...

I rolled a 94 but after about 30 minutes, so congrats on your quick 90!

If you're soloing Ascension and the Improved Bosses, Firetooth is undoubtedly necessary, as will be Darts of Wounding, the Sahuagin/Kuo-Toan paralytic bolts, and Tuigan Bow in conjunction with Arrows of Dispelling, Acid, Piercing and Detonation. Skip over the longbows as the only one I find appealing is the Strong Arm +2 which adds +3 to hit and damage but doesn't cut it. Moreover, if you're soloing Ascension and the Improved Bosses, you have no business roleplaying - powergame the crap out of that b**ch!

At high levels, you can combine the Tuigan Bow, Improved Haste, and Critical Strike to do 10 APR at maximum damage. Grandmastery in crossbows and short bows, and the rest into darts. I guess you could have a point in warhammers somewhere since Crom can help you in some tight spots. I mean +7 to hit and +14 to damage is no joke, even for an archer with one point in hammers. Improved Haste that with CS for 4 APR at max damage (but you'll only need this outside the final battle).

An archer doesn't need to worry about thac0 since your natural progression, elven dexterity, and whatever the bow and ammo give will be sufficient. You want to look out for more APR or higher damage bonuses. And try to get your MR up a bit too, the Inertial Belt Barrier will help reduce the damage by half. Ummm... other than that all I can say is stock up on health potions and items that let you cast Imp. Invisibility and Imp. Haste... use the potions of power wisely. I plan to use mine while fighting Bodhi and her crew or other level-draining undead with my Imp. Mace of Disruption.

[aimlessgun]

Yeah I just took the 90 and ran. 94 is insane though. Good to know solo archers are fun and powerful. I was wondering what the heck the rings were for until I realized they give Imp. Invis (you can get 2? nice).



I was deluding myself into thinking I could get by without melee at all but just from doing a bit of Irenicus' dungeon that's clearly not going pan out haha, so yeah Crom sounds like a very good idea.



I did decide to go with crossbows. You reminding me of those ridiculous Kuo bolts cements that.

[Dante2377]

Let me give some advice on playing the Archer solo, I've done a bunch at least through SOA. Don't discount the ranger kit for its stealth ability e.g. fire away until some people get close, run around the corner and hide, then back away at your leisure and fire away again from a distance. Once you get the boots of speed it's really useful. The Armor of Faith, DUHM, etc are good at higher level as well. Need to balance that strategy out with faster level progression and ** in melee weapons.

On character creation, don't worry about Elves or Halflings - Dex of 18 vs 19 won't matter - your THACO will be so ridiculously low, you're better off with the extra con point for HP (not elves) and definitely better off with something else for STR than halflings. If you're using the Tactics Generic Archer kit, go with a Gnome since you can have 18s for all three of the warrior combat stats and still get the "shorty" saving throw bonus.

Don't discount Slings instead of crossbows - the Sling of Seeking will add your strength bonus to your attacks and is available very early in the game.

Firetooth damage (not counting kit bonuses): 1d8+4 +2 fire = ave 8.5 + 2 fire
Sling Seeking damage (normal bullets, no kit bonus): 1d4+1 + 2 + str (assume at least +5 from strength) = 9.5
Sling Seeking damage (+2 bullets no kit bonus) = 11.5

if you have a strength belt (e.g. from the underdark or otherwise), it goes up at least another couple points per hit. If you're a higher level ranger, the Belt + DUHM can take your strength to 25, which is a massive difference in damage potential.  It will also go up as you get better Bullets (+3, +4)

In a lot of cases the fire damage is good because it gets through stoneskin, etc but a lot of enemies are immune to fire, so it will be a detriment compared to regular weapon damage.

Also, if you're using the gesen bow, you can equip it with normal arrows to get the arrow damage + the electrical bonus.  I believe it also shoots at a normal rate, not the slow Gesen rate.

Something to think about.

Modifié par Dante2377, 05 août 2010 - 05:57 .

[Enuhal]

I was wondering what the heck the rings were for until I realized they give Imp. Invis (you can get 2? nice).

Ribald sells an endless stock of those, for some reason.

[aimlessgun]

Ok, running into serious issues with stuff being immune to piercing damage. Fire Elementals seem to be immune to it. I guess until I get some decent melee ability/more lvls I'm pretty much going to have to run from them or something (had to just leave the Otyugh in Irenicus dungeon alive bc of immune to piercing).

Modifié par aimlessgun, 05 août 2010 - 10:22 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

aimlessgun wrote...

Ok, running into serious issues with stuff being immune to piercing damage. Fire Elementals seem to be immune to it. I guess until I get some decent melee ability/more lvls I'm pretty much going to have to run from them or something (had to just leave the Otyugh in Irenicus dungeon alive bc of immune to piercing).

You can always use something (in the alternate weapon slot) to kill them. I always kill that otyugh by hiding in a doorway(southern) and then when it tries to get at me, whacking it with the quarterstaff+1. (It gets stuck and can't do anything in the doorway).

There's a staff of fire in the wizard stronghold that gives you thirty charges a pop, highly recommended even though it gives you only lesser fire elementals. And just horde everything. In my no reload run I chose not to get fire-tooth, it is just a personal preferance as I have taken it for a spin before(as an archer) and it was incredibly powerful. As an alternative I use tansheron which gives you +3 phantom arrows. Found in trademeet. I'm saving up my tuigan bow for later when I acquire better things in ToB.

Some recommendations: Horde all the vanilla magic armor and weapons so you can sell them at the (profit points) in fish city as well as Ribald after you emerge from the underdark, you can amass alot of gold this way.

[aimlessgun]

I got the air elemental summoning staff but am not at the point where I can afford to sell it and buy it back just to restore its charges (came with 1 :/ ). Good tip about saving stuff to fish city, depends on how much Ch. 2/Watchers keep I want to do before CH. 3 I guess, since if I do watcher's keep before Chap 3, well, my gold becomes essentially unlimited anyways.

The Firetooth interacts very strangely sometimes when you stick ammo onto it. Some of the "weapon has no effect" creatures I ran into were damaged just fine when I unequipped the ammo, and also vice versa, immune to naked firetooth but not to firetooth + bolts.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 06 août 2010 - 03:11 .

[aimlessgun]

SometimesSpring wrote...
Using the Firetooh and +2 bolts from the Case of Plenty, he strikes at an average of 28-38 damage with an addition 2 fire damage; his maximum damage is 62 + 2 fire.

MY DEAR GOD. This guy clears rooms out at an alarming rate. He has 3 APR with the Firetooth and goes up to 4 with an Oil of Speed.

Hrm I wonder how you're getting damage that high. At lvl 13 I'm only hitting in the low 20's with Case of Plenty +1. Something about your kit? My max should be (8+4)+1(bolts)+4(lvl) +4(grandmastery) right now I think, which is only 21. Unless I'm missig somehing about how ranged damage is calculated. But it lines up with the numbers I'm seeing. EDIT: Oh is firetooth getting double 1d8 rolls for using bolts or something? Brings my max up to 29 but still nowhere near what you're getting.

Definitely not clearing rooms that fast. I guess I don't have a point of comparison since the first time I played through I only started soloing stuff AFTER my kensai/theif was completely geared to the teeth. Mostly I spend a lot of time running away with boots of speed, since -3 AC isn't really enough to go risk toe to toe at this lvl vs things that generally hit for around 40.

One thing that's really been bothering me is the way your shots interact with the psuedo turn based combat: it frontloads your shots to the start of the round, and then has a pause, so if you're kiting something and turn around to shoot it at the wrong moment, you just sit there doing nothing because it's at the back end of a round. Wonder if there's a mod that shows like a 'round timer' since timing that in your head would be a huge pain.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 06 août 2010 - 03:10 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

aimlessgun wrote...

I got the air elemental summoning staff but am not at the point where I can afford to sell it and buy it back just to restore its charges (came with 1 :/ ). Good tip about saving stuff to fish city, depends on how much Ch. 2/Watchers keep I want to do before CH. 3 I guess, since if I do watcher's keep before Chap 3, well, my gold becomes essentially unlimited anyways.

The Firetooth interacts very strangely sometimes when you stick ammo onto it. Some of the "weapon has no effect" creatures I ran into were damaged just fine when I unequipped the ammo, and also vice versa, immune to naked firetooth but not to firetooth + bolts.

The air elemental staff only has but one charge. I already tried to 'recharge' it, but it only does one charge. I don't know about the earth elemental staff I've never gotten it.

[AnonymousHero]

aimlessgun wrote...

The Firetooth interacts very strangely sometimes when you stick ammo onto it. Some of the "weapon has no effect" creatures I ran into were damaged just fine when I unequipped the ammo, and also vice versa, immune to naked firetooth but not to firetooth + bolts.

Not sure why they'd be immune to Firetooth w/no ammo (and not vice versa), but I believe the difference may be the enchantment level of the arrows. I think the ammo that's auto-created when you don't equip any ammo for a launcher (which doesn't need ammo) has the same enchantment level as the launcher itself.

[SometimesSpring]

The Staff of Air's description is wrong. Rather than saying it uses up a charge it should say once per day. If you summon a Lesser Air Elemental and rest, you will have one charge in Summon Air Elemental on the staff when you wake up. The charges get used only for the Sleeping Gas spell.

Also, Firetooth's weapon thac0 is +4 and the enchantment on the magical fire bolts is +2. As for the immunity question, the only thing I can think of is the enchantment of a +1/+2 bolt will stack on the Firetooth to become a +3/+4 bolt being fired. Without the Firetooth, you could be facing an enemy immune or highly resistant to magical fire.

[Irrbloss]

SometimesSpring wrote...

Also, Firetooth's weapon thac0 is +4 and the enchantment on the magical fire bolts is +2. As for the immunity question, the only thing I can think of is the enchantment of a +1/+2 bolt will stack on the Firetooth to become a +3/+4 bolt being fired. Without the Firetooth, you could be facing an enemy immune or highly resistant to magical fire.

No, the magical bolts fired by Firetooth are +4 or +5 depending on the crossbow (the description is wrong). If you combine Firetooth with e.g. Bolts +1 you shoot those bolts instead of the magical bolts (i.e. your shots are +1 instead of e.g. +4), but the damage from Firetooth (the full 1d8+4+2 for the +4 crossbow by the looks of it) is added on top of the normal bolt damage.

[SometimesSpring]

So in essence it comes down to doing hyper damage that counts as +1 or +2 versus moderate damage counted as +4 or +5? Correct me if I'm mistaken.



That would also mean that enemies requiring +3 or +4 to hit would need to be hit by the plain old fire bolts, meaning less damage. And those with magical resistance or magical fire resistance will need to be hit using a different weapon altogether. Yes?

[aimlessgun]

So far it's seemed like the only fire damage Firetooth does is the +2, everything else hits fire immune guys fine. Though obviously if they're avoiding the fire damage a different bow might be superior.

But yeah it definitely seems like you can't stack bolts + firetooth bolts vs. stuff that requires higher lvl enchantments to hit. Havn't done extensive testing or anything but so far vs Improved Mantle, naked Firetooth hits, Firetooth + case doesn't.

Can you actually kill bosses with called shot STR drain though? Seems like with Imp. Haste or GWW's you could drain out someone with even 25 STR and not worry so much about raw damage.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 06 août 2010 - 02:01 .

[SometimesSpring]

Yeah, the naked Firetooth does an average of 26-30 + 2 for me, whereas the Firetooth with +2 bolts does around 28-32 + 2 for me now. The damage goes into the regular 30s sometimes, but that has more to do with better damage rolls than anything else. Crit hits for me still do around 60ish and are major lifesavers when they strike, especially given my AC is only -6. I had to remove the stacked bolts to hit Greater Mummies, this is when I realized what you said about enemies that need higher enchantment weapons to be hit.



I have 7/2 APR with the Boots of Speed on. I just hit 3m XP and picked WW as my first HLA so I can get GWW now on, and despite the -4 to thac0 and damage, I still managed to destroy two vampires in one round. I figure I can use GWW when I need to get off fast damage, and use Critical Strike with Improved Haste for when I need to get off insanely high damage. Tuigan Bow with Improved Haste and CS is essentially GWW and CS at the same time - just awesome.



As for Called Shot, I'll tell you once I slaughter Firkraag.