115 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkSeraphym]

PKchu wrote...

Legion loyalty quest was the best moral quandary in the game.

This was another great one, just like the one in Mordin's loyalty mission on what to do with the Genophage cure.

However, in my opinion, if you incorporate Operation Overlord since it was DLC and not part of the main game, I think that one takes the cake.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 07 août 2010 - 06:49 .

[AresXX7]

I see a lot of interesting points being made on both sides of the fence

but, to me, it would be more enjoyable to have a system where your "morality" points are tallied throughout the game & divided by four classes, instead of two, that describe them best
i.e. - paragon (80% or higher blue - 30% or lower red), renegade (80% or higher red - 30% or lower blue), anti-hero (more blue than red), or ruthless (more red than blue) 

the percentages may be off, but I'm sure you can get what I'm trying to say

this way everyone gets to make the choice they want, whenever  they want to, rather than having to rack up one or another, just to open up the dialogue options

as for my personal taste(s), I like to be nice to my crew & the good/innocent NPCs, but ruthless to the bad guys & a jerk to the a-holes


edit: I would also like to add this - they could even have the red & blue "scores" fluctuate as you go along too, so you can see where your character's "morality" is at, as the game progresses 

Modifié par AriesXX7, 07 août 2010 - 07:14 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I think that'd be too diluted.



I kind of like the current set up. You can be a Renage of multiple stripes - either mere dick who is rude but does the right thing in big moments, a TIM like figure who does "evil" to achieve "good ends, or a ruthless monster who does sick things for a good cause but gets a replusive rise out of it. (I tend to be TIM like in my renegade playthroughs.),



Turning Renegade Shep into Paragon Light just doesn't appeal to me. I like just having the OPTION of making the mean comments, even if I take them less often.

[didymos1120]

Why do so many people promulgate this "ME1 Renegade > ME2 Renegade" meme?  In both games, being as pure a renegade as you can means you'll be engaging in a lot of pointless, for-teh-lulz d!ckery. 

A Selection Of ME1's Stupidest Renegade Tricks:

-----
Hey look: we're in a warzone facing a totally unfamiliar enemy. Hark! What is this?  A fellow marine who can clearly hold her own against these things. And wouldn't you just know it? We happen be short exactly one marine!  Hmmm, what to do, what to do?

Ah-ha!  I have it: I think I'll yell at her and say that it's all her fault that her unit got waxed and that she's a gutless disgrace for retreating in the face of certain and pointless death.  Also, I shall tell her to f*ck off and go pound sand.  I love a good plan.

Hmm, you know something? I'm actually a really horrible officer.  How in God's name did I ever get a commission, much less manage to make commander?  WTF was the Alliance thinking?  Oh, wait:  I don't f*cking care, 'cause I'm totally mavericky and stuff.  
-----
"Say goodnight, Manuel....."  (redeemed only by its sheer hilarity)
----
O hai reporter lady!  If you don't mind too much, I'm going to shove a gun in your face and extort money out of you for this OSD which was just sitting there in plain sight in the office I was going to anyway. 
----
O hai other reporter lady!  I'm going to punch your stupid face on camera and make everyone wonder whose bright idea it was to give a human Spectre status. This will also probably do wonders for the Alliance's public image amongst humans. (also redeemed via hilarity)
----
O hai original reporter lady!  What's that?  You want me to plant a bug so you can expose the ticking traffic-control timebomb?  Why it would be my pleasure! *ducks out of sight, turns around and goes right back*   OK, I planted it.  Got my money wench?
---
Look, bureaucrat dude, this is the deal:  you either do it or I am going to go assault the morgue and personally kidnap the corpse. What?  Of course I mean it.  You should know this about me.  This whole thing only works if you know I've done seriously stupid sh!t like this before. Ah, good:  I see you do.  So, got corpse?  
---
Hmmm.  I did kinda risk throwing a wrench into that Chellick guy's ongoing, long-term investigation into a bunch of vile gangsters who have their HQ in a wretched hive of scum and villainy.  I should probably just make the handoff and go give him the evidence.  Naaaah.  Screw that noise.  I'm gonna throw a whole f*cking toolbox into there!  Let's do this!
---
OK.  I'm a Spectre, I gots me a sweet stealth ship, and I just recruited three well-armed and combat-capable aliens.  I think I shall make a shipwide address about how all the aliens can just suck it for being a bunch of stupidheads.  Humans RULE b!tches!
----


Plenty more where that came from.

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 août 2010 - 10:08 .

[lovgreno]

A renegade is as comitted to saving the galaxy and make sacrifices as the paragon are. So both can be defined as heroes from my point of wiev. The renegade is less likely to be seen as a hero by the people he is trying to save though but that is nothing he/she cares much about.

[JockBuster]

AriesXX7 wrote...

I see a lot of interesting points being made on both sides of the fence

but, to me, it would be more enjoyable to have a system where your "morality" points are tallied throughout the game & divided by four classes, instead of two, that describe them best
i.e. - paragon (80% or higher blue - 30% or lower red), renegade (80% or higher red - 30% or lower blue), anti-hero (more blue than red), or ruthless (more red than blue) 

the percentages may be off, but I'm sure you can get what I'm trying to say

this way everyone gets to make the choice they want, whenever  they want to, rather than having to rack up one or another, just to open up the dialogue options

as for my personal taste(s), I like to be nice to my crew & the good/innocent NPCs, but ruthless to the bad guys & a jerk to the a-holes

edit: I would also like to add this - they could even have the red & blue "scores" fluctuate as you go along too, so you can see where your character's "morality" is at, as the game progresses 

I play like this:
"as for my personal taste(s), I like to be nice to my crew & the good/innocent NPCs, but ruthless to the bad guys & a jerk to the a-holes"
End up usually 100-150% ( yeah it STOPS @ 100%) Renegade (no cheating) and 60-80% paragon. Some of the Renegade are just really total jerk (so are some of the Paragon). So I try to have some balance, I've had trouble playing full Paragon, it just seems to wussie and weak for a Battle Hardened Marine, even as a Spacer War Hero!

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Neither. Renegade Shep isn't the antichrist and isn't a jerk. He's just a no-nonesense badass.

[pvt_java]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

Neither. Renegade Shep isn't the antichrist and isn't a jerk. He's just a no-nonesense badass.

No, he's just an A-hole. Ren-Interrupts are badass, but dialogue options usually aren't, especially with crewmates. 

[IanPolaris]

pvt_java wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

Neither. Renegade Shep isn't the antichrist and isn't a jerk. He's just a no-nonesense badass.

No, he's just an A-hole. Ren-Interrupts are badass, but dialogue options usually aren't, especially with crewmates. 

Agreed.  Even when playing a paragon Shep, I LOVE some of those Renegade Interrupts.  The convo options.....not so much.

-Polaris

[T-35]

shootist70 wrote...

I always feel slightly pained when playing a renegade game, the character doesn't seem to correspond with the stereotype of the antihero.  The renegade Shephard comes across as a flat-out jerk and feels completely inconsistent with an heroic saga - you wonder why he would ever bother being there.  A properly done antihero can still slot neatly into that sort of a story, yet renegade Shep feels badly written in this environment.

I agree, the renegade options struck me as mostly whiney and petty. My idea of a renegade is a ruthless bast*rd SOB that can still treat his crew with some respect.. I haven't tried Renegade much because it seemed to be mostly about being a complete *hole...

[mosor]

pvt_java wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

Neither. Renegade Shep isn't the antichrist and isn't a jerk. He's just a no-nonesense badass.

No, he's just an A-hole. Ren-Interrupts are badass, but dialogue options usually aren't, especially with crewmates. 

I play renegade almost all the time. I can't for the life of me figure which renegade dialogue options with the crew portray him as an ****. From what I've seen, it's either strict with military discipline, practical, or assuring team mates that cerberus is right this time. Maybe calling out Miranda as a **** in the beginning, now don't get me wrong, I love Miranda, but thats simply calling a spade a spade.

Modifié par mosor, 07 août 2010 - 07:56 .

[MadCat221]

The renegade views that are a result of "no clean solution" are an unfortunate necessity, like agreeing with the Genophage ("Genophage or genocide!"). Many of the rest? Doing what is expedient, not what is right. "I did what I had to do" often ends up meaning "I took the easy way out and don't want to deal with the ethical and moral consequences of it".

Modifié par MadCat221, 07 août 2010 - 09:04 .

[AresXX7]

PKchu wrote...

I think that'd be too diluted.

yeah, after re-reading my first post, I have to agree that it is a bit much

Turning Renegade Shep into Paragon Light just doesn't appeal to me. I like just having the OPTION of making the mean comments, even if I take them less often.

that is why I believe we should have both of the options to choose from
and, instead of my earlier insanity, just have the ren/par points be a result/consequence of what you choose
rather than having to build them up so you can unlock a certain selection

JockBuster wrote...

I play like this:
"as for my personal taste(s), I like to be nice to my crew & the good/innocent NPCs, but ruthless to the bad guys & a jerk to the a-holes"
End up usually 100-150% ( yeah it STOPS @ 100%) Renegade (no cheating) and 60-80% paragon. Some of the Renegade are just really total jerk (so are some of the Paragon). So I try to have some balance, I've had trouble playing full Paragon, it just seems to wussie and weak for a Battle Hardened Marine, even as a Spacer War Hero!

don't know how you did that, I've tried & failed to get that ratio more than once 
(too much of a goody two-shoes I guess)


although I've read that some of you have said that the renegade interupt is better than the red dialogue
and I do agree for the most part, but, in Thane's loyalty mission I found them to be the other way around
when it comes to Mouse (after he refuses)
the interupt has Shep stepping on his throat to get the info, while the red dialogue just has him making a verbal threat

but, there are two parts to the same mission where the red dialogue is better than the interupt IMHO
(they're pretty amusing too)
for anyone who might not have seen them yet, the first one is with the guy in the catwalks
the interupt involes punching him

and the second one is during the interrogation
also, the interupt involves punching (which I don't mind, but I like the other one better)

what sucks is you have to be almost all the way full on renegade to unlock the second one

Modifié par AriesXX7, 08 août 2010 - 12:39 .

[MassEffect762]

I always feel like a fish out of water playing Renegade. I'm currently playing a male renegade in ME1 and most the time I'm either baffled by the choices I'm making or I'm laughing my butt off.

I try to avoid going full "darkside" but know it's the only way if I want to see the other sides perspective.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 08 août 2010 - 01:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Being a Renegade has never meant being a Renegade only and always, and there's usually enough leeway and variation that even Renegades have variety between them. So, to answer the original question: however you role play it. There's more than enough wiggle room to justify your Shepard being any or either.

[chapa3]

I like to add that the beauty of the choices for paragon and renegade are that they seem to divulge into different kinds of paragon and renegade. When Shepard says "Try It and you'll be scanning your colon", he comes off as a bull. When Shepard says "Sounds like you changed the battlefield" to Aria, he comes off as savvy and intelligent. When he says the "That doesnt sound good" option after Tali sees the evidence of her fathers guilt, he sounds like a complete idiot. Same can go for renegade choices. I ended up making my Shepard come off as a sort of vigilante akin to Garrus and a manipulative character that would put himself at a disadvantage to know as much information as possible (akin to Ben Linus from Lost), and yet at the same time, a Commander fiercely loyal and protective of his crew and his allies. Essentially, a complex character, as a character should be.



Now, there are 2 problems with being able to play such walkthroughs, both of which is on bioware's shoulders. 1, as the dialogue wheel choices have rather vague descriptions, it requires several playthroughs of listining through dialogue to create the perfect Shepard. And 2, the "maximum potential paragon/renegade" system is very handicapping to all but those that imported a ME1 character that exploited the Lorik Quinn glitch.



Right now, Bioware is holding a lot of potential in their finger tips, and if they at the very least, revert back to ME1's paragon/renegade system, and perhaps make it possible to fill both meters without turning to a glitch that rewards multiple para/rene points, then that would be fine enough. However, if they could make the dialogue wheel more descriptive, or perhaps, have more branching dialogue options (maybe 2 sets of charm and intimidate for distinct characters), then ME3 could be VERY interesting.