155 réponses à ce sujet

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

if we get to see wynne in da2 shell only play a sideroll..... no lose, she always was a pain in the ass.

Why do people dislike her? She is a kind, motherly figure.

Her view that the Circles should be under the heel of the Chantry is a big reason. She lost a son, an apprentice and her freedom to the Chantry, but has no problem with their authoritarian attitude towards the mages. It's why she asks you for help in Awakening, to help keep the Circles from gaining their independence (I'm guessing she probably hated it when a Mage Warden asks for the Magi royal boon for the Ferelden Circle).

but if you think about all the blood mages, abnominations, likely unethical research what would happen without some authority watching over the Circle then you should realize that she is right with her worries

hmmmm i guess its also pretty unethical and stuff to lock someone into a tower for the rest of his life because they are born with something.

[LobselVith8]

joriandrake wrote...

but if you think about all the blood mages, abnominations, likely unethical research what would happen without some authority watching over the Circle then you should realize that she is right with her worries

You mean that the treatment of mages by the templars and Chantry conditions blood mages and abominations because any fleeing mages trying to avoid a sword of mercy need to gather as much power as they can to avoid death from the templars? The fact that some see selling their soul as an alternative to life under the Chantry speaks for itself. The Dalish and Kolgrim's people have mages, and have no Chantry or templar oversight, and neither group was destroyed by any abominations or blood magic, putting into question the need for the templars in the first place. The fact that DA:O ends with a mage who asks for this getting exactly that shows the templars and the Chantry aren't really needed at all.

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

if we get to see wynne in da2 shell only play a sideroll..... no lose, she always was a pain in the ass.

Why do people dislike her? She is a kind, motherly figure.

Her view that the Circles should be under the heel of the Chantry is a big reason. She lost a son, an apprentice and her freedom to the Chantry, but has no problem with their authoritarian attitude towards the mages. It's why she asks you for help in Awakening, to help keep the Circles from gaining their independence (I'm guessing she probably hated it when a Mage Warden asks for the Magi royal boon for the Ferelden Circle).

but if you think about all the blood mages, abnominations, likely unethical research what would happen without some authority watching over the Circle then you should realize that she is right with her worries

hmmmm i guess its also pretty unethical and stuff to lock someone into a tower for the rest of his life because they are born with something.

never said that is right neither

I would say the situation is as if scientists would be gathered up in a place and would be mistreated, this shouldn't happen but I wouldn't allow scientists to do everything without checking on them neither

[iTomes]

"never said that is right neither



I would say the situation is as if scientists would be gathered up in a place and would be mistreated, this shouldn't happen but I wouldn't allow scientists to do everything without checking on them neither"



hmmm, what i dislike on wynne is that she actually believes what happens to the mages is right....

[joriandrake]

LobselVith8 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

but if you think about all the blood mages, abnominations, likely unethical research what would happen without some authority watching over the Circle then you should realize that she is right with her worries

You mean that the treatment of mages by the templars and Chantry conditions blood mages and abominations because any fleeing mages trying to avoid a sword of mercy need to gather as much power as they can to avoid death from the templars? The fact that some see selling their soul as an alternative to life under the Chantry speaks for itself. The Dalish and Kolgrim's people have mages, and have no Chantry or templar oversight, and neither group was destroyed by any abominations or blood magic, putting into question the need for the templars in the first place. The fact that DA:O ends with a mage who asks for this getting exactly that shows the templars and the Chantry aren't really needed at all.

the elves and others also have methods to check their own mages/society, and I wouldn't be surprised if elves were less likely to become abnomination than humans due to racial trait or similar

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

"never said that is right neither

I would say the situation is as if scientists would be gathered up in a place and would be mistreated, this shouldn't happen but I wouldn't allow scientists to do everything without checking on them neither"

hmmm, what i dislike on wynne is that she actually believes what happens to the mages is right....

there are always people who are mistreated and they still believe that what happens to them is right

Wynne lost her own son to the existing system, you could say she WANTS to believe in it otherwise her loss is meaningless and it would her as a parent likely drive to the edge of insanity, she seeks justification in other words

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 02:52 .

[mdfitz2]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

if we get to see wynne in da2 shell only play a sideroll..... no lose, she always was a pain in the ass.

Why do people dislike her? She is a kind, motherly figure.

hmmmm.... lets see:
1. you destroyed the ashes, im going to kill you
2. i dislike morrigan, so im going to kill you
3. youre a bloodmage, i do not like you anymore
4. you think about killing possible abominations, instead of telling you why you are wrong im going to kill you.
5. ...and what the hell else....

1. yes
2.no
3. idk
4.what
5 nothing

[joriandrake]

jln.francisco wrote...

The fact they need to resort to the Rite of Annulment means they're complete failures at their primary duty.

True, but atleast they are there to know about what is going on in the tower. Without overseers the tower would just fall to the chaos and the corruption of the mages would have time and ability to spread out unchecked and unnoticed

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"never said that is right neither

I would say the situation is as if scientists would be gathered up in a place and would be mistreated, this shouldn't happen but I wouldn't allow scientists to do everything without checking on them neither"

hmmm, what i dislike on wynne is that she actually believes what happens to the mages is right....

there are always people who are mistreated and they still believe that what happens to them is right

Wynne lost her own son to the existing system, you could say she WANTS to believe in it otherwise her loss is meaningless and it would her as a parent likely drive to the edge of insanity, she seeks justification in other words

thats just what im thinking. and it also is one of the points why i dislike her.  the other point is, that she always disapproves xD

[joriandrake]

mdfitz2 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

if we get to see wynne in da2 shell only play a sideroll..... no lose, she always was a pain in the ass.

Why do people dislike her? She is a kind, motherly figure.

hmmmm.... lets see:
1. you destroyed the ashes, im going to kill you
2. i dislike morrigan, so im going to kill you
3. youre a bloodmage, i do not like you anymore
4. you think about killing possible abominations, instead of telling you why you are wrong im going to kill you.
5. ...and what the hell else....

1. yes
2.no
3. idk
4.what
5 nothing

1. she is right, if we would find the Holy Grail or the ashes of Christ and you would destroy it before my eyes I would most likely also jump at your throat

2. I don't remember such a discussion where she would attack you because of Morrigan

3. Considering what a Blood Mage is and how you get that power, she is right

4. she is right, a person is innocent until proven differently, not the other way around

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 02:59 .

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"never said that is right neither

I would say the situation is as if scientists would be gathered up in a place and would be mistreated, this shouldn't happen but I wouldn't allow scientists to do everything without checking on them neither"

hmmm, what i dislike on wynne is that she actually believes what happens to the mages is right....

there are always people who are mistreated and they still believe that what happens to them is right

Wynne lost her own son to the existing system, you could say she WANTS to believe in it otherwise her loss is meaningless and it would her as a parent likely drive to the edge of insanity, she seeks justification in other words

thats just what im thinking. and it also is one of the points why i dislike her.  the other point is, that she always disapproves xD

do not all the mothers do that? no matter what you do?  :happy:

[joriandrake]

jln.francisco wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

The fact they need to resort to the Rite of Annulment means they're complete failures at their primary duty.

True, but atleast they are there to know about what is going on in the tower. Without overseers the tower would just fall to the chaos and the corruption of the mages would have time and ability to spread out unchecked and unnoticed

You don't know that. From what I saw upon arriving at the Tower you had the Templars being weak useless b****** and you had Wynne and a few other mages actually doing helpful stuff.

My point is they were there to atleast notice the  events in time and get the info out of the tower and lock the gate and watch traffic

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 03:01 .

[iTomes]

"1. she is right, if we would find the Holy Grail and you would destroy it before my eyes I would most likely also jump at your throat



2. I don't remember such a discussion where she would attack you because of Morrigan



3. Considering what a Blood Mage is and how you get that power, she is right



4. she is right, a person is innocent until proven differently, not the other way around"



1. propably yes, but she shouldve told me about her concerns much earlier. i mean, come on, if i told you id destroy the holy grail youd propably freak out then, but not when im actually destroying it.

2. i think it was when you took morrigan with you to the circle tower.

3. i actually dont get why bloodmagic is that evil. sure, the way you get the ability is evil in da1, but i dont know why its that evil if you dont go that way (unlocking it with another char). for example jowan wasn't evil, and wynne even voted for letting him go.

4. yes she is right. but she has to tell me about that, not just telling my non mage warden who only heard "up theres pure doom" so far, that he disagrees and now is going to kill him. someone who appearently is so concerned about the human life propably should be a little more slow with taking out a weapon and attacking someone.

[joriandrake]

jln.francisco wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

mdfitz2 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

if we get to see wynne in da2 shell only play a sideroll..... no lose, she always was a pain in the ass.

Why do people dislike her? She is a kind, motherly figure.

hmmmm.... lets see:
1. you destroyed the ashes, im going to kill you
2. i dislike morrigan, so im going to kill you
3. youre a bloodmage, i do not like you anymore
4. you think about killing possible abominations, instead of telling you why you are wrong im going to kill you.
5. ...and what the hell else....

1. yes
2.no
3. idk
4.what
5 nothing

1. she is right, if we would find the Holy Grail or the ashes of Christ and you would destroy it before my eyes I would most likely also jump at your throat

2. I don't remember such a discussion where she would attack you because of Morrigan

3. Considering what a Blood Mage is and how you get that power, she is right

4. she is right, a person is innocent until proven differently, not the other way around

If you place your religious beliefs above the life of someone who has done everything within his power to help others, you need to re examine your priorities.

uh, there is no justification at all to desecrate the ashes that are holy to many people, even in reality if you would do something to the Vatican or Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām it would probably result in more than just an uproar

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

"1. she is right, if we would find the Holy Grail and you would destroy it before my eyes I would most likely also jump at your throat

2. I don't remember such a discussion where she would attack you because of Morrigan

3. Considering what a Blood Mage is and how you get that power, she is right

4. she is right, a person is innocent until proven differently, not the other way around"

1. propably yes, but she shouldve told me about her concerns much earlier. i mean, come on, if i told you id destroy the holy grail youd propably freak out then, but not when im actually destroying it.
2. i think it was when you took morrigan with you to the circle tower.
3. i actually dont get why bloodmagic is that evil. sure, the way you get the ability is evil in da1, but i dont know why its that evil if you dont go that way (unlocking it with another char). for example jowan wasn't evil, and wynne even voted for letting him go.
4. yes she is right. but she has to tell me about that, not just telling my non mage warden who only heard "up theres pure doom" so far, that he disagrees and now is going to kill him. someone who appearently is so concerned about the human life propably should be a little more slow with taking out a weapon and attacking someone.

You know, most people would never think about that the companion they travel with would desecrate one of the most holy sites/items they can think of, except if that companion is batsh*t insane and such actions are being used to, but in that case the story would be more SImpsons/Futurama-like.

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 03:10 .

[iTomes]

"uh, there is no justification at all to desecrate the ashes that are holy to many people, even in reality if you would do something to the Vatican or Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām it would probably result in more than just an uproar"



hmmm, to me it sometimes made sense from a roleplaying perspective. my mage for example disliked the chantry and following to that andraste because of the treatment the templars gave to him. my dalish elf didn't feel better, for she made the maker and andraste responsible for what happened tp her people.

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

"uh, there is no justification at all to desecrate the ashes that are holy to many people, even in reality if you would do something to the Vatican or Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām it would probably result in more than just an uproar"

hmmm, to me it sometimes made sense from a roleplaying perspective. my mage for example disliked the chantry and following to that andraste because of the treatment the templars gave to him. my dalish elf didn't feel better, for she made the maker and andraste responsible for what happened tp her people.

sure, you can base the action on roleplay but then don't be surprised that even companions attack you or that if you brag about it in a tavern people will form an angry mob and lynch you

[Tooneyman]

In my game she died so she won't be in DA2. HEHE.

[iTomes]

"You know, most people would never think about that the companion they travel with would desecrate one of the most holy sites/items they can think of, except if that companion is batsh*t insane and such actions are being used to, but in that case the story would be more SImpsons/Futurama-like."



and if that companion hates the chantry and andraste and makes this very clear to everyone. if theres absolutely no doubt that he would do anything he could to harm the chantry, the maker or andraste? you dont have to play a madman for that, a dalish elf can be enough. and wynne doesn't say anything except "the urn is holy" blahblah. no "it has healing powers that can be used for the greater good or something". and then shes trying to murder you for something of which she knew it was going to happen......

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

"You know, most people would never think about that the companion they travel with would desecrate one of the most holy sites/items they can think of, except if that companion is batsh*t insane and such actions are being used to, but in that case the story would be more SImpsons/Futurama-like."

and if that companion hates the chantry and andraste and makes this very clear to everyone. if theres absolutely no doubt that he would do anything he could to harm the chantry, the maker or andraste? you dont have to play a madman for that, a dalish elf can be enough. and wynne doesn't say anything except "the urn is holy" blahblah. no "it has healing powers that can be used for the greater good or something". and then shes trying to murder you for something of which she knew it was going to happen......

what? You seriously believed there won't be VERY harsh reactions to destroying something that is called Holy?

I will remember it that in case you come to Hungary and I show you the Holy Crown of St. Stephen that I have to say "This crown is Holy, btw DON'T YOU DARE TO DESTROY IT OR EVEN ****** ON IT!"

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 03:23 .

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"uh, there is no justification at all to desecrate the ashes that are holy to many people, even in reality if you would do something to the Vatican or Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām it would probably result in more than just an uproar"

hmmm, to me it sometimes made sense from a roleplaying perspective. my mage for example disliked the chantry and following to that andraste because of the treatment the templars gave to him. my dalish elf didn't feel better, for she made the maker and andraste responsible for what happened tp her people.

sure, you can base the action on roleplay but then don't be surprised that even companions attack you or that if you brag about it in a tavern people will form an angry mob and lynch you

i dont really having a problem with being attacked for that. i have a problem with the fact that wynne doesn't really try to persuade me from not destroying it, but totally freaks out if i do.