155 réponses à ce sujet

[iTomes]

"what? You seriously believed there won't be VERY harsh reactions to destroying something that is called Holy?"



no. i totally expected that. but BEFORE i destroyed the ashes. something like "im concerned, are you really going to destroy the ashes??". if im telling them ill do something like that, they have all right to complain and if im still doing it they also can attack me. but walking around, not asking, not saying ANYTHING and then freaking out when im doing what was totally expectable???

[joriandrake]

[quote]iTomes wrote...

"what? You seriously believed there won't be VERY harsh reactions to destroying something that is called Holy?"

no. i totally expected that. but BEFORE i destroyed the ashes. something like "im concerned, are you really going to destroy the ashes??". if im telling them ill do something like that, they have all right to complain and if im still doing it they also can attack me. but walking around, not asking, not saying ANYTHING and then freaking out when im doing what was totally expectable???[/quote]

because you didn't see me finishing/editing my comment here it is again:

[quote]

what? You seriously believed there won't be VERY harsh reactions to destroying something that is called Holy?



I will remember it that in case you come to Hungary and I show you the Holy Crown of St. Stephen that I have to say "This crown is Holy, btw DON'T YOU DARE TO DESTROY IT OR EVEN ****** ON IT!"]

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 03:23 .

[iTomes]

"I will remember it that in case you come to Hungary and I show you the Holy Crown of St. Stephen I have to say "This crown is Holy, btw DON'T YOU DARE TO DESTROY IT OR EVEN ****** ON IT!""



not necessary. im not a madman and i (usually) respect the religion of others. but my character propably doesn't. see, if you would show someone of who you KNEW that he would love to ****** on that crown you WOULD tell him not to^^

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

"I will remember it that in case you come to Hungary and I show you the Holy Crown of St. Stephen I have to say "This crown is Holy, btw DON'T YOU DARE TO DESTROY IT OR EVEN ****** ON IT!""

not necessary. im not a madman and i (usually) respect the religion of others. but my character propably doesn't. see, if you would show someone of who you KNEW that he would love to ****** on that crown you WOULD tell him not to^^

Well that is just the result of the lack of remembering actions/personality of the player in the game for dialogues, this works fine in Alpha Protocol as an example of the opposite

[captain.subtle]

joriandrake wrote...


sure, you can base the action on roleplay but then don't be surprised that even companions attack you or that if you brag about it in a tavern people will form an angry mob and lynch you

Am I the only one here to think that you are making sense?

Most people hate chantry because:

1) It is equated to the concept of real life religious institute (church) which is generally hated today.
2) They treat Mages with disdain
3) Some People think blood magic is NOT evil in itself

There is no way in hell I am going to argue about point 1.

About point 2) and 3):

Thedas was ruled BRUTALLY by the Magisters before Andraste broke their power. These Magisters USED TO SUCK people DRY of their blood (figuratively) to achive power. C'mon! Thats the worst thing you can do! They could MIND-CONTROL people into anything and DID! On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

Plus if your home is destroyed by Evil Cats tomorrow who suck your relatives dry and Mind control you, I guess you would be EXTREMELY wary of them in the future.... If you are NOT... well... Say hello to extinction by cat-a-strophe.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 05 août 2010 - 03:30 .

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"I will remember it that in case you come to Hungary and I show you the Holy Crown of St. Stephen I have to say "This crown is Holy, btw DON'T YOU DARE TO DESTROY IT OR EVEN ****** ON IT!""

not necessary. im not a madman and i (usually) respect the religion of others. but my character propably doesn't. see, if you would show someone of who you KNEW that he would love to ****** on that crown you WOULD tell him not to^^

Well that is just the result of the lack of remembering actions/personality of the player in the game for dialogues, this works fine in Alpha Protocol as an example of the opposite

ahh, alpha protocol, one of the best and most misjudged games ever.. anyhow, that leak of remembering the players actions sucks. but still, i think its one of the reasons i dont like wynne. the other one is that shes incredibly fast with taking out her weapon. and, if i remember it correctly, she doesn't freak out much enough to kill you if you decide to kill all the elves in that alienage mission. that racist .... xD

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"I will remember it that in case you come to Hungary and I show you the Holy Crown of St. Stephen I have to say "This crown is Holy, btw DON'T YOU DARE TO DESTROY IT OR EVEN ****** ON IT!""

not necessary. im not a madman and i (usually) respect the religion of others. but my character propably doesn't. see, if you would show someone of who you KNEW that he would love to ****** on that crown you WOULD tell him not to^^

Well that is just the result of the lack of remembering actions/personality of the player in the game for dialogues, this works fine in Alpha Protocol as an example of the opposite

ahh, alpha protocol, one of the best and most misjudged games ever.. anyhow, that leak of remembering the players actions sucks. but still, i think its one of the reasons i dont like wynne. the other one is that shes incredibly fast with taking out her weapon. and, if i remember it correctly, she doesn't freak out much enough to kill you if you decide to kill all the elves in that alienage mission. that racist .... xD

From what you say, I believe you should rather hate the developers for lacking/missing content and for now using an AP-like game memory instead of hating Wynne :happy:

[joriandrake]

captain.subtle wrote...

Am I the only one here to think that you are making sense?

Probably

[Herr Uhl]

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

[iTomes]

"From what you say, I believe you should rather hate the developers for lacking/missing content and for now using an AP-like game memory instead of hating Wynne"



but bioware is only controlled by two mighty bloodmages called "EA" and "technology", so theyre not to be hated, too. maybe i could agree on "i hate EA and the limitations technology gives to developers of games and dislike the product of it, called wynne, for her particulary arrogance and her strange beliefs even tough i dont hate her for things that are obviously the guilt of the horrible 2 bloodmages"....

[LobselVith8]

captain.subtle wrote...

joriandrake wrote...


sure, you can base the action on roleplay but then don't be surprised that even companions attack you or that if you brag about it in a tavern people will form an angry mob and lynch you

Am I the only one here to think that you are making sense?

Most people hate chantry because:

1) It is equated to the concept of real life religious institute (church) which is generally hated today.
2) They treat Mages with disdain
3) Some People think blood magic is NOT evil in itself

There is no way in hell I am going to argue about point 1.

About point 2) and 3):

Thedas was ruled BRUTALLY by the Magisters before Andraste broke their power. These Magisters USED TO SUCK people DRY of their blood (figuratively) to achive power. C'mon! Thats the worst thing you can do! They could MIND-CONTROL people into anything and DID! On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

Plus if your home is destroyed by Evil Cats tomorrow who suck your relatives dry and Mind control you, I guess you would be EXTREMELY wary of them in the future.... If you are NOT... well... Say hello to extinction by cat-a-strophe.

Following that line of thought, I'm certain the Dalish would love to point out that humans did all that...

There's a big difference between the idea that people with magical ability need to be properly trained, and imprisoning people for having magical ability. Magic isn't inherently evil. There's the claim that Andraste was a mage herself. Shartan may have been a mage, some of his followers were likely mages since they were elves. I have little doubt that some of the slaves who helped liberate humans and elves were mages themselves, and Calenhad had the support of the Circle (for mysterious reasons - likely a promise of independence) when he founded Ferelden. Mages have also helped in every Blight on Thedas, helping save the world five times over. Giving unchecked powers to bigoted, hateful people doesn't resolve anything, since every uprising involving the mages of the Circles is traced back to the templars who lord over them.

[iTomes]

"About point 2) and 3):



Thedas was ruled BRUTALLY by the Magisters before Andraste broke their power. These Magisters USED TO SUCK people DRY of their blood (figuratively) to achive power. C'mon! Thats the worst thing you can do! They could MIND-CONTROL people into anything and DID! On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!



Plus if your home is destroyed by Evil Cats tomorrow who suck your relatives dry and Mind control you, I guess you would be EXTREMELY wary of them in the future.... If you are NOT... well... Say hello to extinction by cat-a-strophe."



blood magic is just a tool. it can be used for whatever you want to use it for. if someone would butcher all my family and friends with a butcher knife tomorrow, i wouldn't hate the knife but the murderer. same counts for magic. it can be used for whatever you want to use it, but it surely is wrong to lock someone in because of what he COULD do with it. "unguilty until the opposite is proven" or whatever.

[joriandrake]

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Well, it is not as if in RL people would be allowed to roam freely around with a nuke in their backpack, or that if real, powerful psionics would exist they would not be overseen or atleast checked up once in a while for safety reasons.

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Well, it is not as if in RL people would be allowed to roam freely around with a nuke in their backpack, or that if real, powerful psionics would exist they would not be overseen or atleast checked up once in a while for safety reasons.

hmmmm, theres a little difference between "im going to check on you for youre safety and the one of others" and "im going to lock you into a tower forever MWAHAHAHA!!!!"....

[joriandrake]

btw I want to say that I am proud of the people here as the thread didn't become a troll nest or a gathering place for accidently thrown insults yet

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Well, it is not as if in RL people would be allowed to roam freely around with a nuke in their backpack, or that if real, powerful psionics would exist they would not be overseen or atleast checked up once in a while for safety reasons.

hmmmm, theres a little difference between "im going to check on you for youre safety and the one of others" and "im going to lock you into a tower forever MWAHAHAHA!!!!"....

seriously, do you really believe an existing human with psionic powers would be allowed to be free? In the best case he would have to work for the government and still be checked upon instead of just being a labrat

Imagine someone like Magneto from X-Men allowed to walk among us

[odiedragon]

The only reason Wynne was retconned to go to Cumberland was to invalidate the possible "I'm staying at court" ending, to ensure that there will not be an heir on Ferelden's throne (via spirit healer fertility help).



So I'm betting we do see her, if only briefly, to canonize what happened to her. Dunno what they have against Shale, but if she goes to Cumberland she can't go to Tevinter either. Sad all around, really.

[joriandrake]

odiedragon wrote...

The only reason Wynne was retconned to go to Cumberland was to invalidate the possible "I'm staying at court" ending, to ensure that there will not be an heir on Ferelden's throne (via spirit healer fertility help).

So I'm betting we do see her, if only briefly, to canonize what happened to her. Dunno what they have against Shale, but if she goes to Cumberland she can't go to Tevinter either. Sad all around, really.

who knows, perhaps she will find clues on how to help Shale there, afterall, Kirkwall was once an important city of Tevinter

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 03:53 .

[iTomes]

"seriously, do you really believe an existing human with psionic powers would be allowed to be free? In the best case he would have to work for the government and still be checked upon instead of just being a labrat



Imagine someone like Magneto from X-Men allowed to walk among us"



oh, im sure someone with these powers wouldn't be allowed to walk free. nontheless it would be wrong not to allow him to walk free. you see, xmen actually is a pretty good example for that. to hate people for something theyre born with only makes people hating the system so those who never wouldve done any harm will become hatefull persons and most likely attack others. its not a situation you can really controll and that will almost always lead to a war between the "normals" and the "others". the only ways to avoid that are, imo: 1. give the "others" the same rights as the "normals" make them equals and allow them to have a normal life. take care that they dont become psychopaths or something, propably using some kind of special education for them or 2. kill every "non-normal".

[LobselVith8]

joriandrake wrote...

seriously, do you really believe an existing human with psionic powers would be allowed to be free? In the best case he would have to work for the government and still be checked upon instead of just being a labrat

Imagine someone like Magneto from X-Men allowed to walk among us

It also creates the potential (as in the game) for an abuse of authority. The Circle is technically supposed to be free (as Alistair mentions to a Mage Warden when he asks about the Chantry overruling the treaty with the Wardens), but it's a lie. You put people on a leash and abuse them, imprison them for their entire lives, remove their personality to make them virtual slaves as rune crafters, and revolts are going to happen. You do this, and you get someone like Uldred, who is precisely like Magneto, wanting freedom for mages at any cost.

[LobselVith8]

odiedragon wrote...

The only reason Wynne was retconned to go to Cumberland was to invalidate the possible "I'm staying at court" ending, to ensure that there will not be an heir on Ferelden's throne (via spirit healer fertility help).

So I'm betting we do see her, if only briefly, to canonize what happened to her. Dunno what they have against Shale, but if she goes to Cumberland she can't go to Tevinter either. Sad all around, really.

Since it takes six months after DA:O, it's possible she returned from Tevinter. Shale might have been cured. I'm more surprised no mention is made of giving the Ferelden Circle independence if you're a Mage Warden (it seems a likely reason why the other Circles across Thedas would now want to be free as well).

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

"seriously, do you really believe an existing human with psionic powers would be allowed to be free? In the best case he would have to work for the government and still be checked upon instead of just being a labrat

Imagine someone like Magneto from X-Men allowed to walk among us"

oh, im sure someone with these powers wouldn't be allowed to walk free. nontheless it would be wrong not to allow him to walk free. you see, xmen actually is a pretty good example for that. to hate people for something theyre born with only makes people hating the system so those who never wouldve done any harm will become hatefull persons and most likely attack others. its not a situation you can really controll and that will almost always lead to a war between the "normals" and the "others". the only ways to avoid that are, imo: 1. give the "others" the same rights as the "normals" make them equals and allow them to have a normal life. take care that they dont become psychopaths or something, propably using some kind of special education for them or 2. kill every "non-normal".

there can't be a special education if such thing would happen, the fear and worries of possible miscalculations would make the people make the people be under house arrest their whole life long atleast, of course a rebel mindset would automaticly result in the "other people" because of this, this can't be avoided, extremism would arise, there would be normals who really want to kill every abnormal (mage in case of DA) and also many of those with powers would misuse their powers


no matter what, it would still result in one winning above the other and force them their own believes on the losers of the conflict, of course only if the winner doesn' start a genocide



The situation with the Chantry and Templars watching over the mages could even be called one of the best possible and also working systems, and it is I bet still preferable to the mages than to be leashed and such as in qunari society. Of course it has its faults, even huge ones, can't  be avoided, what should be improved would be a seperate, independent court to check for justice being served, preferably having average people, a few mages, and also tranquil in it

[Super_Cat]

I have no doubt that the convening of the mages in Cumberland will be a part of Dragon Age 2's story, whether we see Wynne or not.



This will be interesting.

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"seriously, do you really believe an existing human with psionic powers would be allowed to be free? In the best case he would have to work for the government and still be checked upon instead of just being a labrat

Imagine someone like Magneto from X-Men allowed to walk among us"

oh, im sure someone with these powers wouldn't be allowed to walk free. nontheless it would be wrong not to allow him to walk free. you see, xmen actually is a pretty good example for that. to hate people for something theyre born with only makes people hating the system so those who never wouldve done any harm will become hatefull persons and most likely attack others. its not a situation you can really controll and that will almost always lead to a war between the "normals" and the "others". the only ways to avoid that are, imo: 1. give the "others" the same rights as the "normals" make them equals and allow them to have a normal life. take care that they dont become psychopaths or something, propably using some kind of special education for them or 2. kill every "non-normal".

there can't be a special education if such thing would happen, the fear and worries of possible miscalculations would make the people make the people be under house arrest their whole life long atleast, of course a rebel mindset would automaticly result in the "other people" because of this, this can't be avoided, extremism would arise, there would be normals who really want to kill every abnormal (mage in case of DA) and also many of those with powers would misuse their powers


no matter what, it would still result in one winning above the other and force them their own believes on the losers of the conflict, of course only if the winner doesn' start a genocide



The situation with the Chantry and Templars watching over the mages could even be called one of the best possible and also working systems, and it is I bet still preferable to the mages than to be leashed and such as in qunari society. Of course it has its faults, even huge ones, can't  be avoided, what should be improved would be a seperate, independent court to check for justice being served, preferably having average people, a few mages, and also tranquil in it

hmmmm, i do not think that the system with the templars ruling over the mages is the best one available. you see, theres always a way different then suppression. if we look at the mage collective, those dont run around killing people and the world isn't total chaos. you dont need a tower to organize the mages. if one goes on a killing trip, others can come and stop him or he even can be stopped by the city guard or something. but if you do the supression way, youll propably get exactly what happened in DA in the circle tower, and that was really really bad (we remember, uldred only started to build up his army, idk what wouldve happened if he had finished).

[captain.subtle]

Nothing can be ideal in a system with a potential for disaster due to a granted Freedom. One has to contend to live with compromises.

Sure its easy to say that "A society that restricts freedom for gaining safety, looses both".. But in the end the practical thing that WORKS is a compromise. It is no doubt an ideal world where Mages can roam free and NOT be evil or Abominations... But it is not going to happen Amigo.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 05 août 2010 - 04:14 .