155 réponses à ce sujet

[K3NN3H]

You do realise wynne is quite old in DAO. 10 years later you think she will be fit and ready to fight ? i dont think so. if you spoke to her much she tells you about settling down after the war. You may see her but nothing more than a talking NPC. i would imagine

[captain.subtle]

She will NOT die until her spirit gives out you know...

[captain.subtle]

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Its not really an irony. Its a compromise.

[LobselVith8]

captain.subtle wrote...

Nothing can be ideal in a system with a potential for disaster due to a granted Freedom. One has to contend to live with compromises.

Sure its easy to say that "A society that restricts freedom for gaining safety, looses both".. But in the end the practical thing that WORKS is a compromise. It is no doubt an ideal world where Mages can roam free and NOT be evil or Abominations... But it is not going to happen Amigo.

Actually, it happens if a Mage Warden asks Alistair or Anora for it as his/her royal boon. I think, given the numerous times the Right of Annulment was performed, the Dalish have a good claim to having mages and mundanes working together without abominations and reckless behavior running rampant (and no lyrium addicted templars or hateful Chantry, either). So can Kolgrim's group, actually.

[iTomes]

captain.subtle wrote...

Nothing can be ideal in a system with a potential for disaster in Freedom. One has to contend to live with compromises.

Sure its easy to say that "A society that restricts freedom for gaining safety, looses both".. But in the end the practical thing that WORKS is a compromise. It is no doubt an ideal world where Mages can roam free and NOT be evil or Abominations... But it is not going to happen Amigo.

well, i disagree. if we look why the evil bloodmages we met were evil bloodmages we'll see that almost all of them became bloodmages for theyre own protection from the circle. they felt forced to do evil by the circumstances and so brought harm to others. if we now look how many evil abominations were created because of the circle and how many mages became bloodmages because of the circle than well propably mention that the most harm was brought because of the círcle.

[joriandrake]

LobselVith8 wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Nothing can be ideal in a system with a potential for disaster due to a granted Freedom. One has to contend to live with compromises.

Sure its easy to say that "A society that restricts freedom for gaining safety, looses both".. But in the end the practical thing that WORKS is a compromise. It is no doubt an ideal world where Mages can roam free and NOT be evil or Abominations... But it is not going to happen Amigo.

Actually, it happens if a Mage Warden asks Alistair or Anora for it as his/her royal boon. I think, given the numerous times the Right of Annulment was performed, the Dalish have a good claim to having mages and mundanes working together without abominations and reckless behavior running rampant (and no lyrium addicted templars or hateful Chantry, either). So can Kolgrim's group, actually.

but only because the other races have no such prejudices as the humans do in Ferelden towards everything that is not like them, isn't theirs, or is not controlled by them

[Herr Uhl]

captain.subtle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Its not really an irony. Its a compromise.

I think that it is ironic that you have to impeach on peoples Freedom to be able to be a Freedom loving society.

(I even capitalized the F:s)

[captain.subtle]

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Its not really an irony. Its a compromise.

I think that it is ironic that you have to impeach on peoples Freedom to be able to be a Freedom loving society.

(I even capitalized the F:s)

The correct justification of that compromise is:

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[joriandrake]

The problem is with mages is that they are like people with a little a-bomb in their pocket, they may not use it or use it "for bad" but they still have it, and you can't take it away from them.... well except if you make them tranquil but that is like making a lobotomy on them

[iTomes]

"but only because the other races have no such prejudices as the humans do in Ferelden towards everything that is not like them, isn't theirs, or is not controlled by them"



yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle. who uses "magic shall serve the humans and never controll them" as an excuse too lock children for the rest of theyre lifes into a tower? so if the chantry would say that mages arent pure evil and stuff the people propably would stop hating mages...

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle

wrong, it is because of human nature

the issue lies not with the chantry but at the very core of human nature and the hatred/distrust to everything different or new, and this can never be solved,  because it is not society/organization related

Modifié par joriandrake, 05 août 2010 - 04:30 .

[Herr Uhl]

captain.subtle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Its not really an irony. Its a compromise.

I think that it is ironic that you have to impeach on peoples Freedom to be able to be a Freedom loving society.

(I even capitalized the F:s)

The correct justification of that compromise is:

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Am I disagreeing? But I find it amusing that you use the word freedom to justify taking away peoples freedom.

*is not a rabid chantry hater*

[captain.subtle]

iTomes wrote...

"but only because the other races have no such prejudices as the humans do in Ferelden towards everything that is not like them, isn't theirs, or is not controlled by them"

yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle. who uses "magic shall serve the humans and never controll them" as an excuse too lock children for the rest of theyre lifes into a tower? so if the chantry would say that mages arent pure evil and stuff the people propably would stop hating mages...

To this I would like to ask a question:

Would you allow your brain to be scanned to find out what you are thinking? That would be the only way to know if you are going to commit evil or not....

And I believe that nothing is more important the the Freedom to Think.... even Freedom to roam around or express takes a back seat to the freedom of thought (My opinion! May be WRONG!).....

[joriandrake]

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

 On a Regular basis! Magic is just too freaking powerful for any Freedom loving society to be allowed to roam free!

The irony, the delicious irony.

Its not really an irony. Its a compromise.

I think that it is ironic that you have to impeach on peoples Freedom to be able to be a Freedom loving society.

(I even capitalized the F:s)

The correct justification of that compromise is:

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Am I disagreeing? But I find it amusing that you use the word freedom to justify taking away peoples freedom.

*is not a rabid chantry hater*

I  beleive you two are just totally misunderstanding eachother

[elearon1]

That's one damned good looking sausage ... now I'm hungry.

[captain.subtle]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Am I disagreeing? But I find it amusing that you use the word freedom to justify taking away peoples freedom.

*is not a rabid chantry hater*

How could I know if you were disagreeing or NOT???

With the rampant sarcasm that overfloods the forums I thought I was not making my point clear....

[LobselVith8]

joriandrake wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Nothing can be ideal in a system with a potential for disaster due to a granted Freedom. One has to contend to live with compromises.

Sure its easy to say that "A society that restricts freedom for gaining safety, looses both".. But in the end the practical thing that WORKS is a compromise. It is no doubt an ideal world where Mages can roam free and NOT be evil or Abominations... But it is not going to happen Amigo.

Actually, it happens if a Mage Warden asks Alistair or Anora for it as his/her royal boon. I think, given the numerous times the Right of Annulment was performed, the Dalish have a good claim to having mages and mundanes working together without abominations and reckless behavior running rampant (and no lyrium addicted templars or hateful Chantry, either). So can Kolgrim's group, actually.

but only because the other races have no such prejudices as the humans do in Ferelden towards everything that is not like them, isn't theirs, or is not controlled by them

True, but leaving things as they are does nothing, either. The Circle failed at its task. Turning mages into tranquil so you can have slaves who make runes on command or murdering children who ran away because of an inept teacher and a fearful enviornment (like Wynne's apprentice Aneirin) illustrates that all it does is sow discontent. The fact that the Rite of Annulment has been performed for 700 years shows that mages will never stop trying to achieve freedom from the Chantry. It's a self-serving organization that benefits from the tranquil and will pave over anything that gets in their way, including the Dales; even Morrigan's ability as a shapeshifter demonstrates that even a practiced learner of the arcane arts (the Mage Warden) has never even heard of such magic because the Chantry destroys this knowledge. How can this be a good thing for mages, especially when they are overseen by religious fanatics who think mages are evil and are addicted to lyrium?

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle

wrong, it is because of human nature

the issue lies not with the chantry but at the very core of human nature and the hatred/distrust to everything different or new, and this can never be solved,  because it is not society/organization related

hmmm, at least in DA the elves solved it, and they didn't seem totally different to humans. i think the chasind solved it too. it may be a part of the human nature, but its a part you can handle. its not something that would work immidiatly, but after a few generations it propably would. i mean, in the TI, wether we like it or not, there was no deep hatred between mages and normal humans.

[joriandrake]

the faith is not a problem, nor that the Circle is overseen, the problem is the HOW and WHY, however that will not change in a medieval society of humans easily, and if it is tried to be changed by force it will only result in worse outcomes

[iTomes]

captain.subtle wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"but only because the other races have no such prejudices as the humans do in Ferelden towards everything that is not like them, isn't theirs, or is not controlled by them"

yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle. who uses "magic shall serve the humans and never controll them" as an excuse too lock children for the rest of theyre lifes into a tower? so if the chantry would say that mages arent pure evil and stuff the people propably would stop hating mages...

To this I would like to ask a question:

Would you allow your brain to be scanned to find out what you are thinking? That would be the only way to know if you are going to commit evil or not....

And I believe that nothing is more important the the Freedom to Think.... even Freedom to roam around or express takes a back seat to the freedom of thought (My opinion! May be WRONG!).....

oh, i would allow someone to scan my thoughts, at least if its someone who wont judge them or anything as long as they dont harm others. but i am against the idea because i also believe in the freedome of thought. but i also think that there are other freedoms as important as the freedome to think what you want to think, because those affect the freedome to think what you want to. for example the freedome of speech.

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle

wrong, it is because of human nature

the issue lies not with the chantry but at the very core of human nature and the hatred/distrust to everything different or new, and this can never be solved,  because it is not society/organization related

hmmm, at least in DA the elves solved it, and they didn't seem totally different to humans. i think the chasind solved it too. it may be a part of the human nature, but its a part you can handle. its not something that would work immidiatly, but after a few generations it propably would. i mean, in the TI, wether we like it or not, there was no deep hatred between mages and normal humans.

a few generations sure, about 4 or 5 centuries atleast, and only if the mindset of humans changes and a social/scientific/industrial revolution happens

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

the faith is not a problem, nor that the Circle is overseen, the problem is the HOW and WHY, however that will not change in a medieval society of humans easily, and if it is tried to be changed by force it will only result in worse outcomes

hmmm, im pretty sure if its not changed itll also lead to pretty bad outcomes....

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

iTomes wrote...

"but only because the other races have no such prejudices as the humans do in Ferelden towards everything that is not like them, isn't theirs, or is not controlled by them"

yep, but thats mainly because of the chantry who controlls the circle. who uses "magic shall serve the humans and never controll them" as an excuse too lock children for the rest of theyre lifes into a tower? so if the chantry would say that mages arent pure evil and stuff the people propably would stop hating mages...

To this I would like to ask a question:

Would you allow your brain to be scanned to find out what you are thinking? That would be the only way to know if you are going to commit evil or not....

And I believe that nothing is more important the the Freedom to Think.... even Freedom to roam around or express takes a back seat to the freedom of thought (My opinion! May be WRONG!).....

oh, i would allow someone to scan my thoughts, at least if its someone who wont judge them or anything as long as they dont harm others. but i am against the idea because i also believe in the freedome of thought. but i also think that there are other freedoms as important as the freedome to think what you want to think, because those affect the freedome to think what you want to. for example the freedome of speech.

I would never allow my thoughts to be scanned, because in my opinion the right to think/privacy of thought is even more important than the freedom of speech, and that by a dozen times or more

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

the faith is not a problem, nor that the Circle is overseen, the problem is the HOW and WHY, however that will not change in a medieval society of humans easily, and if it is tried to be changed by force it will only result in worse outcomes

hmmm, im pretty sure if its not changed itll also lead to pretty bad outcomes....

if it changes peacefull, be my guest, although that won't happen, and if it is changed via force, the outcome will be worse, and the mages become even more feared and despised

[iTomes]

"a few generations sure, about 4 or 5 centuries atleast, and only if the mindset of humans changes and a social/scientific/industrial revolution happens"



yes, it would take time. and yes, a social or whatever revolution would be necessary. but its not impossible and surely worth the effort. besides, i dont think it would be this hard to integrate the mages. make them help the people, let them work in hospitals or whatever, allow them to show the normal people how magic can help them. usually humans dont hate what obviously helps them....