191 réponses à ce sujet

[Blumbum]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Blumbum wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Console Version is good wrote...
Cousland and Aeducan were actually pretty wicked awesome names, I think the reason people do not like Hawk is because to be honest it sounds real cliche. It also sounds like the main character of a bad 80s movie.

I have no problem with the name though I am just letting you know why I think Hawke is not as good a name as the other names you guys have come up with.

And that's fine. Everyone's got differetn tastes and backgrounds and influences, so they'll like different names. I'm more responding to those who believe that:

a) Hawke is somehow less creative or a worse name than any other we could give tothe character;
the name Hawke automatically ruins the game;
c) OMG why are you destroying my hopes and dreams, BioWare? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Yeah, those kinds of people. Personally, I believe that if fantasy fans can practically worship a dude named "Drizzt" or "Sephiroth," the name "Hawke" isn't that much of a burden, lol. and really, "Cloud Strife?" come on!

There's a difference between fantasy fans and Japanese fantasy fans.

And funnily enough, the two are not different species of human being or mutually exclusive.  As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

In certain aspects. Yet anime tends to be horribly cliche with "silly" combat, hairstyles, and "cool" lines. For instance that abomination called Bleach.

Modifié par Blumbum, 05 août 2010 - 08:05 .

[Dave of Canada]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

I have one thing to say to this:  ELMINSTER BANGING MYSTRA. 

In all seriousness, I'm not a JRPG fan myself.  Less for the art styles and more for just the headbanging awfulness of some of the character tropes, voice acting, wangsty dialog, etc.  For example, Miyazaki films employ lots of the Japanese style of over-the-top art and names, and I love his work.  It's more the tropes associated with JRPG than the visual style of JRPG that bothers me.

Suffice to say that there will always be goofy names and some goofy art in 90% of sci-fi and fantasy settings, and there's no point in calling elitism of one particular kind of setting over another.

[Anarya]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

It's all about what you're used to, isn't it? You grew up with Western fantasy so it doesn't seem ridiculous to you. How dare those Asians have their own spin on fantasy! Kneejerk dismissal of anything coming out of Japan or the other East Asian countries is tiresome and played out. As tiresome as weeaboo-ism.

Note: this isn't all directed at you, Dave of Canada, you were just the one I quoted. I see this attitude all the time on these forums and it irks me.

Modifié par Anarya, 05 août 2010 - 08:14 .

[HopHazzard]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Blumbum wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Console Version is good wrote...
Cousland and Aeducan were actually pretty wicked awesome names, I think the reason people do not like Hawk is because to be honest it sounds real cliche. It also sounds like the main character of a bad 80s movie.

I have no problem with the name though I am just letting you know why I think Hawke is not as good a name as the other names you guys have come up with.

And that's fine. Everyone's got differetn tastes and backgrounds and influences, so they'll like different names. I'm more responding to those who believe that:

a) Hawke is somehow less creative or a worse name than any other we could give tothe character;
the name Hawke automatically ruins the game;
c) OMG why are you destroying my hopes and dreams, BioWare? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Yeah, those kinds of people. Personally, I believe that if fantasy fans can practically worship a dude named "Drizzt" or "Sephiroth," the name "Hawke" isn't that much of a burden, lol. and really, "Cloud Strife?" come on!

There's a difference between fantasy fans and Japanese fantasy fans.

And funnily enough, the two are not different species of human being or mutually exclusive.  As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

Seriously. I just spent the afternoon listening to an audio version of The Silmarillion. Talk about some silly names!

Modifié par HopHazzard, 05 août 2010 - 08:19 .

[Blumbum]

Anarya wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

It's all about what you're used to, isn't it? You grew up with Western fantasy so it doesn't seem ridiculous to you. How dare those Asians have their own spin on fantasy! Kneejerk dismissal of anything coming out of Japan or the other East Asian countries is tiresome and played out. As tiresome as weeaboo-ism.

Note: this isn't all directed at you, Dave of Canada, you were just the one I quoted. I see this attitude all the time on these forums and it irks me.

and that's fine, but you can't just bunch up all different sorts as one type of fantasy, not in the point the mod was trying to make.

[Demx]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Console Version is good wrote...
Cousland and Aeducan were actually pretty wicked awesome names, I think the reason people do not like Hawk is because to be honest it sounds real cliche. It also sounds like the main character of a bad 80s movie.

I have no problem with the name though I am just letting you know why I think Hawke is not as good a name as the other names you guys have come up with.

And that's fine. Everyone's got differetn tastes and backgrounds and influences, so they'll like different names. I'm more responding to those who believe that:

a) Hawke is somehow less creative or a worse name than any other we could give tothe character;
the name Hawke automatically ruins the game;
c) OMG why are you destroying my hopes and dreams, BioWare? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Yeah, those kinds of people. Personally, I believe that if fantasy fans can practically worship a dude named "Drizzt" or "Sephiroth," the name "Hawke" isn't that much of a burden, lol. and really, "Cloud Strife?" come on!

There is nothing wrong with making up names or using another language to make up a name either. If anything they are more original.

[Anarya]

Blumbum wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

It's all about what you're used to, isn't it? You grew up with Western fantasy so it doesn't seem ridiculous to you. How dare those Asians have their own spin on fantasy! Kneejerk dismissal of anything coming out of Japan or the other East Asian countries is tiresome and played out. As tiresome as weeaboo-ism.

Note: this isn't all directed at you, Dave of Canada, you were just the one I quoted. I see this attitude all the time on these forums and it irks me.

and that's fine, but you can't just bunch up all different sorts as one type of fantasy, not in the point the mod was trying to make.

I don't really see why not. I mean, people nowadays consume entertainment from all over the world. People who are teenagers now may have grown up with just as much Eastern fantasy as Western. They're going to continue to influence each other to a degree that I think making that divide is a useless exercise.

[Dave of Canada]

Anarya wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

It's all about what you're used to, isn't it? You grew up with Western fantasy so it doesn't seem ridiculous to you. How dare those Asians have their own spin on fantasy! Kneejerk dismissal of anything coming out of Japan or the other East Asian countries is tiresome and played out. As tiresome as weeaboo-ism.

I understand that, yet the fighting a giant poo snake with a mouth for a groin is a little ridiculous regardless of how somebody looks at it. There's a lot of JRPGs that I actually enjoyed a lot, hell.. Kefka is still in my top three most badass villains ever.

Westerns do have ridiculous things themselves in their games (such as the brothel's "surprise me" choices in Dragon Age) but I can probably recount a dozen odd things in a JRPG for every WRPG one.

[Anarya]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

As far as sheer ridiculosity of both name and style is concerned, the traditional Western high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms D&D can be just as full of silly as any JRPG.

I disagree.

While the Western fantasy settings do have some ridiculous things, it doesn't compare to a standard JRPG.

It's all about what you're used to, isn't it? You grew up with Western fantasy so it doesn't seem ridiculous to you. How dare those Asians have their own spin on fantasy! Kneejerk dismissal of anything coming out of Japan or the other East Asian countries is tiresome and played out. As tiresome as weeaboo-ism.

I understand that, yet the fighting a giant poo snake with a mouth for a groin is a little ridiculous regardless of how somebody looks at it. There's a lot of JRPGs that I actually enjoyed a lot, hell.. Kefka is still in my top three most badass villains ever.

Westerns do have ridiculous things themselves in their games (such as the brothel's "surprise me" choices in Dragon Age) but I can probably recount a dozen odd things in a JRPG for every WRPG one.

I guess what I'm saying is, because of centuries of folklore evolving into modern Western fantasy, we see things like, say, the existence of magic or dragons and their hoarding habits as completely normal. When really it's no more or less weird from a real-life standpoint than the things you find in a JRPG, you're just so used to seeing it that it raises no weirdness flags.

[Dave of Canada]

Anarya wrote...

I guess what I'm saying is, because of centuries of folklore evolving into modern Western fantasy, we see things like, say, the existence of magic or dragons and their hoarding habits as completely normal. When really it's no more or less weird from a real-life standpoint than the things you find in a JRPG, you're just so used to seeing it that it raises no weirdness flags.

I guess you're right.

[In Exile]

haberman13 wrote...

True, the majority doesn't care, and doesn't analyze games the way us "hardcore" gamers do.

The masses love Halo, so basically recognize DA:O for what it was: the last great game that will come out of Bioware for a long time.

You mean the game with the dumbed down inventory system, (party inventory instead of individual inventory, potion swap abilities, carrying capacity on a single character of 60) the MMO-like combat without statistic in the ability descriptions making proper builds impossible, the renegerating mana and health, the fact that you have 6 fixed origins that restrict roleplaying, the fact tha the party size is only four, the fact that you can't kill any NPC you want, the fact that....

Ah, wait, I forgot. Now that DA came out, we can suddenly pretend all the ''Bioware sold out! DA is not BG! The game will suck, it won't sell, and BG was the greatest thing to come out of Bioware and it will never again be equaled!'' is a line that we will conveniently forget we ever used.

Sorry, if you want to play your elist card, you should have done it last game.

[Sable Rhapsody]

In Exile wrote...

haberman13 wrote...

True, the majority doesn't care, and doesn't analyze games the way us "hardcore" gamers do.

The masses love Halo, so basically recognize DA:O for what it was: the last great game that will come out of Bioware for a long time.

You mean the game with the dumbed down inventory system, (party inventory instead of individual inventory, potion swap abilities, carrying capacity on a single character of 60) the MMO-like combat without statistic in the ability descriptions making proper builds impossible, the renegerating mana and health, the fact that you have 6 fixed origins that restrict roleplaying, the fact tha the party size is only four, the fact that you can't kill any NPC you want, the fact that....

Ah, wait, I forgot. Now that DA came out, we can suddenly pretend all the ''Bioware sold out! DA is not BG! The game will suck, it won't sell, and BG was the greatest thing to come out of Bioware and it will never again be equaled!'' is a line that we will conveniently forget we ever used.

Sorry, if you want to play your elist card, you should have done it last game.

Strange that some devs and fans alike think games should evolve and change.  I loved the Baldur's Gate series.  I replayed it three times back to back to back, and I NEVER replay games.  But do I want to play Baldur's Gate 15: Gate Harder for the rest of my life?  No.

I do agree that the hidden mechanics of DA:O were horribly frustrating, but I didn't mind them in ME2, simply because the combat was better handled.  And I'd like either no party size cap, ideally, or a larger party size of around six or so.

[In Exile]

Blumbum wrote...
There's a difference between fantasy fans and Japanese fantasy fans.

Cause a setting with names like:


M'alys Chant (Human Bard/FTR/RDD)
Meloddy Chant (Human
Bard/FTR/RDD)
Ylldreth Cadwreth (Elf Rogue)
Kallust Knuckle (Dwarf
WIZ/FTR/Rogue)
Loris Delecta (Human Bard/CoT)
Necruss Mortense
(Human WIZ)
Veruca Salt* (Gnome WIZ)
Gruffold Flagonslayer
(drunken Gnome SOR)
Symyonn Lightfoot (Elf Rogue/WIZ/AA)
Quigley
(Dwarf FTR/CoT/WM)
Stout Firmfist (Dwarf FTR/Rogue/DwD)
Farfadh
Feralfoot (Halfling STR-based Rogue/BBN)
Dahlia Sunsedge (Human
Pally/Rogue)
Frerbn Rustenduc (Gnome CLC)
Frissa Lightfoot
(Halfling STR-based Rogue/FTR/CoT)
Grimborne Spellbeard (Dwarf
FTR/WIZ/CoT)
Jelassa'en (Human FTR/Rogue/CoT specialized in unarmed)
Nerren
Weft (Human FTR/Rogue)
Yvaine Dusk (Human RGR/Rogue/FTR)
Cudgel
MacBlarney (Dwarf FTR/Rogue/WM)
Truncheon MacBlarney (Dwarf
FTR/CLC/DwD)
Shilly MacBlarney (Dwarf WIZ, necromancy)

Is totally not stupid.

[In Exile]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Strange that some devs and fans alike think games should evolve and change.  I loved the Baldur's Gate series.  I replayed it three times back to back to back, and I NEVER replay games.  But do I want to play Baldur's Gate 15: Gate Harder for the rest of my life?  No.

I do agree that the hidden mechanics of DA:O were horribly frustrating, but I didn't mind them in ME2, simply because the combat was better handled.  And I'd like either no party size cap, ideally, or a larger party size of around six or so.

Well, I was actually being sarcastic. I want to emphasize that I believe absolutely none of the things I said up there. It's just... having followed DA for 3 years of my life, seeing people hail it as some kind of paragon of what an RPG should be is absolutely insane given how much resistance to it there was in the first place.

The Origin deal is the absolute worst offender, which has gone from ''ZOMG! It destroys roleplay!'' to ''ZOMG! How can they remove it for a single background human character! That destroys roleplay!''

I appreciate that the complaint is more nuanced than that, and that with the introduction of VO we cannot compare it to a game like JE or KoTOR directly, but it to see such a dramatic shift of opinion on the feature is shocking, to say the least.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Don't forget about Grobnar Gnomehands, Aribeth de Tylmarande, Fenthick (seriously, could there be a nore unfortunate name?), Midnight (or a more overused name?), or Garl Glittergold.

[Dave of Canada]

In Exile wrote...

Quigley

I don't know why but I love this name.

[Sable Rhapsody]

In Exile wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Strange that some devs and fans alike think games should evolve and change.  I loved the Baldur's Gate series.  I replayed it three times back to back to back, and I NEVER replay games.  But do I want to play Baldur's Gate 15: Gate Harder for the rest of my life?  No.

I do agree that the hidden mechanics of DA:O were horribly frustrating, but I didn't mind them in ME2, simply because the combat was better handled.  And I'd like either no party size cap, ideally, or a larger party size of around six or so.

Well, I was actually being sarcastic. I want to emphasize that I believe absolutely none of the things I said up there. It's just... having followed DA for 3 years of my life, seeing people hail it as some kind of paragon of what an RPG should be is absolutely insane given how much resistance to it there was in the first place.

The Origin deal is the absolute worst offender, which has gone from ''ZOMG! It destroys roleplay!'' to ''ZOMG! How can they remove it for a single background human character! That destroys roleplay!''

I appreciate that the complaint is more nuanced than that, and that with the introduction of VO we cannot compare it to a game like JE or KoTOR directly, but it to see such a dramatic shift of opinion on the feature is shocking, to say the least.

Yikes.  Very sorry about that--I didn't realize you were being sarcastic.  Damn written text and its lack of prosody 

And I agree that DA:O is quite different from BioWare's "old-skool" RPGs.  If anything, the Origin stories are unique to DA:O among BioWare games, and indeed most WRPGs.  And as I've said a frillion times on these forums, if anything DA2 bears a closer resemblence to the overall arc of the Baldur's Gate games.  Set backstory?  Check.  Personal story?  Check.  Sister?  Check.  Forging a legend based on your identity as the Champion/Bhaalspawn?  Double check.

[Johnny Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Console Version is good wrote...
Cousland and Aeducan were actually pretty wicked awesome names, I think the reason people do not like Hawk is because to be honest it sounds real cliche. It also sounds like the main character of a bad 80s movie.

I have no problem with the name though I am just letting you know why I think Hawke is not as good a name as the other names you guys have come up with.

And that's fine. Everyone's got differetn tastes and backgrounds and influences, so they'll like different names. I'm more responding to those who believe that:

a) Hawke is somehow less creative or a worse name than any other we could give tothe character;
the name Hawke automatically ruins the game;
c) OMG why are you destroying my hopes and dreams, BioWare? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Yeah, those kinds of people. Personally, I believe that if fantasy fans can practically worship a dude named "Drizzt" or "Sephiroth," the name "Hawke" isn't that much of a burden, lol. and really, "Cloud Strife?" come on!

Oooh, thats a dangerus road to take, making fun of Final Fantasy VII. People have had their lives ruind for less. Just warning you.:innocent:

Talking about Hawke I also didnt like the name first. But thinking about it, Hawke is a cool badass fantasy name and could just as easy be from a fantasy book.
And I remember people really hating the name "Shepard".

[Dave of Canada]

Johnny Shepard wrote...
And I remember people really hating the name "Shepard".

I still hate it because of how much it represents the Mass Effect storyline and how Shepard is the "Shepherd" of the galaxy.

[JasonPogo]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Console Version is good wrote...
Cousland and Aeducan were actually pretty wicked awesome names, I think the reason people do not like Hawk is because to be honest it sounds real cliche. It also sounds like the main character of a bad 80s movie.

I have no problem with the name though I am just letting you know why I think Hawke is not as good a name as the other names you guys have come up with.

And that's fine. Everyone's got differetn tastes and backgrounds and influences, so they'll like different names. I'm more responding to those who believe that:

a) Hawke is somehow less creative or a worse name than any other we could give tothe character;
the name Hawke automatically ruins the game;
c) OMG why are you destroying my hopes and dreams, BioWare? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Yeah, those kinds of people. Personally, I believe that if fantasy fans can practically worship a dude named "Drizzt" or "Sephiroth," the name "Hawke" isn't that much of a burden, lol. and really, "Cloud Strife?" come on!

My response to this.  I am a part of the fanbase of all things geek.  And G.I. Joe already claimed the name Hawk. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Really? Why isn't BioWare changing a name I don't like? why are they ignoring people who keep saying they don't like the name? Well, besides the fact that we like the name (you'll have to decide for yourselves after you play the game whether you change your mind), aren't y'all the same fanbase that has accepted names like Elminster, Drizzt, Bilbo, Littlefinger, Belgarion, Pug/Milamber, Sadira, Haplo, Dresden, Cadderly, Tasslehoff, Gandalf, Cloud Strife, Geralt, a skull named Morte, even Cousland and Aeducan?

I have no doubt "Hawke" will cease to become an issue once people begin playing as him/her.

In fairness and with respect, with the exeption of 'Cloud Strife' (which is just mashing two words together...) and possibly Morte, all those other names were original and creative. Some of them have become as popular and loved as they are because there is no other, you can't mistake them for some other 'Gandalf' or 'Belgarion'.

Hawke on the other hand...there are so many Hawkes. Go to your gamer friends and say "What do you think of Hawke?" and chances are the answer will be "Which one?"

You are no doubt right that the name will cease to become as much of an issue once the game is out. But personally I was just a little disappointed that something flashy was chosen because (apparently) it was a name/word people can automatically recognise and identify with on some level rather than something fresh, and something that could have become an icon in its own right.

But like I said, the name won't make or break the game for me. I look forward to seeing what else is in store from Bioware.

[Dave of Canada]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

Tasslehoff probably sounded good before Baywatch.

Don't hassle the hoff.

[Blessed Silence]

Blumbum wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Really? Why isn't BioWare changing a name I don't like? why are they ignoring people who keep saying they don't like the name? Well, besides the fact that we like the name (you'll have to decide for yourselves after you play the game whether you change your mind), aren't y'all the same fanbase that has accepted names like Elminster, Drizzt, Bilbo, Littlefinger, Belgarion, Pug/Milamber, Sadira, Haplo, Dresden, Cadderly, Tasslehoff, Gandalf, Cloud Strife, Geralt, a skull named Morte, even Cousland and Aeducan?

I have no doubt "Hawke" will cease to become an issue once people begin playing as him/her.

"duuruhuurr lets copy Mass Effect, a respectable rpg turned to crap with mass effect 2, and copy the main hero into Dragon Age a completely different type of rpg. I'm sure once you play Shepar- Hawke you will love him."

Face it, when you go from a game where you can be 3 different races with 6 different backgrounds people are going to be pissed when you restrict them to a single race and background.

I guess I am in the minority then as I enjoyed ME and ME2 immensely.

And why is it such a big deal?  You can still customize Hawke for pete's sake.  It's not like they are not allowing us to do anything.