Aller au contenu

Photo

Ammo Powers: the right tool for each enemy


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
101 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Simbacca

Simbacca
  • Members
  • 861 messages
On another forum I frequent, a player new to ME2 asked me about Ammo powers.  What I started with the intention of a quick outline ended up being a lengthy piece about choosing the right Ammo power for each situation.  I'd like to share it here, though most of you vets here already know much of this.

I'll use a Soldier as an example since they rely on ammo powers more than the other classes.

Now even though different weapons have different modifiers versus the three types of defensives, you still rarely ever choose what weapon to use in a given situation based on that.  That's what ammo powers are for.  If the enemy is at long range, use a sniper, if they are at mid-range, use an assault rifle, and if they are close range, use a shotgun. 

From what I've seen around the net, most players think of the ammo powers in terms of type of defense they are good against.  However that is not all ammo powers do, other factors should be taken into consideration.

  • Disruptor - highly damaging to shields, highly damaging to synthetic enemy health, briefly crowd controls unprotected enemies (overheats weapons at rank 3+, stuns synthetics at rank 2+)
  • Incendiary - highly damaging to armor, highly damaging to organic enemy health, briefly crowd controls (panics) most unprotected organic enemies, halts Krogan and Vorcha health regeneration
  • Cryo Ammo - crowd controls (freezes) all unprotected enemies for quite a bit, doubles damage frozen enemies take (they shatter)
  • Armor Piercing - highly damaging to armor, highly damaging to all enemies health
  • Shredder - highly damaging to organic health only (useless ammo power)
  • Warp Ammo - pretty damaging to barriers, armor, and all enemies health, highly damaging to floating enemies (pull, singularity)

Btw, any time I said "unprotected" above, I meant an enemy that has just health left (ie, shields, barriers, or armor already removed)

Now obviously when facing Blood Pack, Incendiary ammo is ideal because it destroys their defenses (armor) and crowd controls them (organics).

And as such, when facing Geth, Disruptor is ideal because it destorys their defenses (shields) and crowd controls them (synthetics).

Where it can get a little tricky is Blue Suns (shielded organics), Eclipse (shielded organics and barriered organics), Mechs (armored synthetics), and Collectors (barriered organics).  Getting back to the Soldier example I was talking about, say we are on a mission fighting Blue Suns.  Do we use Disruptor Ammo to deal with their shields or Incendiary to since they're organic?  Well that depends on which weapon you're using:

  • On a bolt-action Sniper Rifle (Mantis or Widow), I'd have Disruptor set.  These are weapons in which we are trying to get as close to one-shot/one-kill (1S/1K) as possible.  Because of this, the defense is the first thing that one shot will hit so that is what the decision is based on.  A fully shielded Blue Sun merc is more likely to die from a single Mantis shot with Disruptor ammo, whereas said merc would survive the same Mantis shot if it had Incendiary instead.
  • On an Assault Rifle, I'd have Incendiary set.  These are weapons in which we are going to pumping as many rounds into an enemy as we can to kill them.  Because of this need to be out of cover more to continue firing, the crowd control because the deciding factor.  An Assault Rifle will remove the shields easily enough with it's rapid fire, so continually panicking our target with fire once those shields drop is and killing that now down to health organic quicker is paramount.  Besides, you're facing shielded enemies, surely you brought squadmates along with Area Overload or Area Energy Drain.  After you have them cast those powers, you'll be shooting enemies that are at just health anyway.  I suppose you could try to bring squadmates along with finishing powers, like Incinerate, Cryo Blast, Pull, Throw, or Dominate and try to use Disruptor ammo as they way to strip shields, but this method is far less efficient.
  • On a Shotgun, I'd also have Incendiary set for all the same reasons as I just listed for the Assault Rifle.  In addition, I'd say the crowd control is even more important since the Shotgun will have you at close range.  One shot from some Shotguns, specifically the Eviscerator, Claymore, and Geth Plasma Shotgun, will certainly strip the enemy of their defenses regardless of ammo power, but it may not kill them.  Better to have them panicking from the fire after that shot, making it easy to finish them off once you can fire another shot or melee.  In fact Cryo Ammo can also be highly effective on the higher damaging Shotguns too, since after that one shot they will lose their defense and freeze.  With being frozen causing enemies to take double damage, it's easy enough to finish them with a melee, or shoot someone else while they lie there frozen.

Now say we take this Soldier example but are facing Collectors instead.  Well then all three would be set to Incendiary ammo because we don't have Warp Ammo to put on the Sniper.  Even if we did have access to Warp Ammo (like say take it as a bonus power), I'd still only use it on the Sniper and keep Incendiary on the Assault Rifle and Shotgun for all the reasons discussed above.

As far as the other ammo powers go, any class that has access to Incendiary has no use for Armor Piercing (as this video demonstrates).  AP does very little extra damage compared to Incendiary, and doesn't have any of the crowd control.  The one real advantage AP has over Incendiary is that it also does boosted damage to synthetic enemy health, but you should be using Disruptor in that situation anyway.  AP ammo is redundant, and should never be taken as a bonus power on a Soldier or Vanguard Shepard.  Sniper Rifles are also naturally good against armor, so AP ammo shouldn't even be taken as a bonus power on an Infiltrator as well.  AP ammo can be a decent bonus power for Engineer and Sentinel players who choose to forgo the superior Squad Incendiary and Squad Disruptor (the crowd control is that valuable, even against Collectors) so that they aren't forced to always have to bring along Grunt, Jacob, or Zaeed as one of their two allies. 

Shredder is pointless.  Ok, maybe it could useful if one is playing on Casual/Normal (since many enemys have no protection) but then again, it's Casual, the enemies will already be dying quickly.  Incendiary Ammo is superior as a versus organic enemy health ammo power since it also crowd controls and is useful against armor.  Cryo Ammo is superior too, since it crowd controls both organics and synthetics at just health, and they will still die fast due to the double damage of freezing.  On Hardcore/Insanity (where all the enemys have some form of protection), Shredder is completely useless.

As I said before, when going for 1S/1K of certain Snipers, Warp Ammo can be useful.  Some Soldiers and Infiltrators that will take the Widow sniper on the disabled Collector ship will have Warp Ammo as their bonus power to keep that 1S1K flowing.  Adept's that choose to take Warp Ammo as a bonus power will use it on all their guns since it does double damage to the enemies they float with Singularity and Pull.  Warp ammo can be a decent bonus power for Engineer and Sentinel players who choose to forgo the superior Squad Incendiary and Squad Disruptor (the crowd control is that valuable, even against Collectors) so that they aren't forced to always have to bring along Grunt, Jacob, or Zaeed as one of their two allies. 

Now I have to note a couple special situations where Cryo Ammo outshines Incendiary ammo versus organics.  These situations are against Husks, Krogan, and Varren, since these enemies will not panic from Incendiary ammo.  When a Husk is frozen, it instantly dies, just as they instantly die if they are floated by Singularity or Pull, stunned by Neural Shock, or knocked down by Throw or Concussive Shot.  Now on Hardcore/Insanity, this means you have to strip away their armor first, easy enough with Incineration Blast, Area Reave, or Incendiary ammo.  As far as Krogan and Varren are concerned, Cryo won't instantly kill them, but is the only ammo that crowd controls them since the fire doesn't panic them.  Actually this short video is a perfect example of just that.

Finally if there is one thing Cryo Ammo is used for more than anything else, it is as the one catch-all set it and forget it Squad Ammo power.  Vanguard players typically set their allies to Squad Cryo ammo while they use Inferno ammo and some Infiltrator players set their allies to Squad Cryo ammo while they use Heavy Disruptor ammo and/or Heavy Warp ammo.  Some Soldiers that take the Revenant on the disabled collector ship will set their allies to Squad Cryo ammo while they use Heavy Disruptor ammo and/or Inferno ammo.  Some Soldiers that take the Widow may have maxed Heavy Warp Ammo as a bonus power don't have room for Squad Cryo ammo.  These Soldiers could set their allies to Squad Disruptor ammo or Squad Incendiary ammo, while they use either Squad Disruptor ammo or Heavy Warp ammo on their Widow.

Modifié par Simbacca, 07 septembre 2010 - 04:51 .


#2
Arhka

Arhka
  • Members
  • 842 messages
Disruptor also briefly CC's organics(as long as fire is directed at them) by overheating their weapons. Made Zaeed's loyalty mission a joke with a Scimitar or any other rapid fire weapon.

#3
Simbacca

Simbacca
  • Members
  • 861 messages

Arhka wrote...

Disruptor also briefly CC's organics(as long as fire is directed at them) by overheating their weapons. Made Zaeed's loyalty mission a joke with a Scimitar or any other rapid fire weapon.


True, added that to Disruptor's list of attibutes.  Thank you :)

#4
Bozorgmehr

Bozorgmehr
  • Members
  • 2 321 messages
Nice guide Simbacca, but I like to add a thing or two:

Incediary Ammo is (also) great against Vorch and Krogan (Bloodpack) because it stops their health regen.

Incediary Ammo (lvl 4 Inferno Ammo) can set nearby protected enemies on fire (panick) - radius 3 m.

Disrupter Ammo can make Geth (or synthetics) explode, which is nice as long as you keep your distance, I prefer Cryo Ammo when fighting Geth with a SG - Cryo Ammo is also a good alternative for Disruptor Ammo when playing Vanguard (fighting Geth) because you don't need Zaeed thus the use of another squadmate (Miranda or Garrus; with Overload) becomes available.

Warp Ammo is awesome on Collector missions though Incediary Ammo is better due to its crowd controlling ability, but Sentinels, Adepts, Engineers and Infiltrators (not bringing Jacob or Grunt with squad IA) can use Warp Ammo as their bonus power effectively on these missions. If I remember it right I needed Warp Ammo (lvl 2) on my Infiltrator to 1S/1K Collector drones at Horizon using Mantis.

Nice job with the AP Ammo - there're still people using it on their Soldier or Vanguard - a waste. I also like what you have written about Cryo Ammo. It's my favorite Ammo, doesn't look like much on the drawing board, but it's very effective (like you've explained) on Insanity (too bad there're no squadies you can bring with the squad CA :crying: ). Cryo Ammo offers great CC abilities plus you can shatter enemies, love it!

#5
jwalker

jwalker
  • Members
  • 2 304 messages
Warp Ammo gives damage bonus against mechs and synthetics health?

I thought the only one (aside from disruptor) was armor piercing...



Nice guide, btw...

#6
Simbacca

Simbacca
  • Members
  • 861 messages

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Nice guide Simbacca...


Thanks :)

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Incediary Ammo is (also) great against Vorch and Krogan (Bloodpack) because it stops their health regen


Added.  I realized this but figured there already was more than enough reasons detailed about Incendiary being the best versus Bloodpack.  Still, it does deserve a mention.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Incediary Ammo (lvl 4 Inferno Ammo) can set nearby protected enemies on fire (panick) - radius 3 m.

Disrupter Ammo can make Geth (or synthetics) explode, which is nice as long as you keep your distance, I prefer Cryo Ammo when fighting Geth with a SG - Cryo Ammo is also a good alternative for Disruptor Ammo when playing Vanguard (fighting Geth) because you don't need Zaeed thus the use of another squadmate (Miranda or Garrus; with Overload) becomes available.


I know, but I was intentionally keeping those evolutions out of the discussion for the sake of clarity of the message to new players.  I wanted everything I wrote about Incendiary and Disruptor ammos to be valid for the squad evolved versions as well, especially since players using caster classes may only have access to ammo powers that way

And yes, on Geth missions with Shepards that have Heavy Disruptor ammo, I put Cryo ammo on my shotgun too.  If it's any other rank or version of Disruptor ammo though, I'll set my shotgun to that, just like my assault rilfes and snipers.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Warp Ammo is awesome on Collector missions though Incediary Ammo is better due to its crowd controlling ability, but Sentinels, Adepts, Engineers and Infiltrators (not bringing Jacob or Grunt with squad IA) can use Warp Ammo as their bonus power effectively on these missions. If I remember it right I needed Warp Ammo (lvl 2) on my Infiltrator to 1S/1K Collector drones at Horizon using Mantis.


I went back and reread the Warp ammo and AP ammo paragraphs and editted them according.  They can be useful to those classes if players don't want to bring around someone else for an ammo power.  I just wanted to get across that, for players that are relying on squadmates for ammo power, having Squad Incendiary from Grunt or Jacob is generally more useful even on Collector missions than having Squad Warp ammo from Jack.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Nice job with the AP Ammo - there're still people using it on their Soldier or Vanguard - a waste. I also like what you have written about Cryo Ammo. It's my favorite Ammo, doesn't look like much on the drawing board, but it's very effective (like you've explained) on Insanity (too bad there're no squadies you can bring with the squad CA :crying: ). Cryo Ammo offers great CC abilities plus you can shatter enemies, love it!


B)

And yeah, Cryo ammo is so awesome it can't be on squadmates for balance.

jwalker wrote...

Warp Ammo gives damage bonus against mechs and synthetics health?

I thought the only one (aside from disruptor) was armor piercing...


I've never seen anywhere, in-game or online, a description of Warp ammo that says "organic health" or "synthetic enemies are resistant to warp damage".  It just says "effective against biotic barriers, armor, and health."  I haven't tested it though.

jwalker wrote...

Nice guide, btw...


Thank you :)

Modifié par Simbacca, 05 août 2010 - 11:12 .


#7
Alamar2078

Alamar2078
  • Members
  • 2 618 messages
While I won't actively dispute the claims made here I'm not sure that I would go as far as to say that AP ammo is useless and Cryo is as good as advertised. IMHO a lot depends on your playstyle, what squadmates you bring along, the mission, etc....



While I admit that Cryo crowd control is quite handy against enemies that don't panic and rush your position there are other considerations. For example I would prefer that my squadmates had an ammo that would help me strip their defenses. Once defenses are down either Shep's powers or your squadmates can create all the crowd control that you need.



For 1S1K type of builds there are plenty of times that AP or Warp ammo would be appropriate. Crowd control should be less of a need and any extra damage "won't hurt".



Devil's Advocate: The later in the game you go the less of an import AP's +10% damage will be. If you already have +50% from research, +15% from Miranda [or whatever the #], +Whatever from a passive, +Whatever from Armor Pieces then that extra +10% is going to be so low that in effect you shouldn't notice the difference and other powers would likely be more appropriate.




#8
ryoldschool

ryoldschool
  • Members
  • 4 161 messages
On Soldier, AP Ammo is useful because you can max it out by collector ship trap vs incendary ammo because you don't have to spend 3 points on disruptor ammo ( just to get incendary ). I would always use incendary if they hadn't designed it that way.

#9
NICKjnp

NICKjnp
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages
I always rely on squad versions of powers (even vanguard) when I play.... except for Soldier. I prefere to put my points in powers that have quicker cool downs.

#10
Gravbh

Gravbh
  • Members
  • 539 messages
As a primarily adept player I will cast a vote for AP ammo over warp, but not for why you may think. I like to max all of my biotic abilities save for shockwave (yes even pull field).

This only leaves me with 1 point to spare for my bonus. Rank 1 AP ammo is 30%, rank 1 warp is only 15. The bonus damage to targets affected by biotics is a complete non-factor for me because a heavy throw/warp bomb are much better choices for a pulled target than bullets. Barrier's aren't much of a factor either because of smg's passive shield piercing upgrade(and by the time you fight collector's you probably have it researched).

If I were to max a bonus power and only use rank 1 of pull, I'd probably agree with you on warp over AP. I hate starting a NG+ with rank 1 pull though. With no biotic cooldown/duration bonus it doesn't always last long enough to combo your warp with early on, and eary on is when the game is the hardest for a NG+.

AP ammo is the best bang for your buck if you're only going to drop 1 point in a bonus power imo.

Modifié par Gravbh, 07 août 2010 - 08:58 .


#11
ezrafetch

ezrafetch
  • Members
  • 535 messages
For Shepard, I always use Inferno on myself...unless I don't get Incendiary Ammo at all. Always. If you don't OSOK a Blue Suns or Eclipse Merc (i.e. off a Widow shot), the CC off of Inferno will trigger, which is much, much better than weapon overheat from Disruptor. Unless it's a Geth mission, then just bumming Disruptor basically functions as a synthetic Inferno.



Along those lines, I don't think Warp Ammo is worthwhile as a Heavy/Shepard-only evolution for the OSOK business (unless Inferno is unavailable). I'm pretty sure the Heavy Warp/Inferno difference is minimal, at least for Soldiers. You will OSOK grunt units regardless of ammo power, and I'm pretty sure the damage difference on higher end units is minimal, but Inferno's CC is invaluable since you've likely eliminated their protection and then some with the shot.

#12
jamesaka11710

jamesaka11710
  • Members
  • 184 messages
As a Soldier playing on the easier difficulties, I just stick with Inferno and maybe switch to disruptor if need be. On higher settings, squad cryo, miranda has overload for shields and warp for armour and mordin with inferno for armour as well as cryo blast for backup, and my character switching between warp, incendiary and disruptor as required.

#13
Alamar2078

Alamar2078
  • Members
  • 2 618 messages
BTW: Don't forget that Warp ammo vs. AP ammo is not an either or choice because you can retrain powers before missions. As long as you don't do it too often you should be able to have your cake and eat it too.

#14
Tony Gunslinger

Tony Gunslinger
  • Members
  • 544 messages

Gravbh wrote...

As a primarily adept player I will cast a vote for AP ammo over warp, but not for why you may think. I like to max all of my biotic abilities save for shockwave (yes even pull field).

This only leaves me with 1 point to spare for my bonus. Rank 1 AP ammo is 30%, rank 1 warp is only 15. The bonus damage to targets affected by biotics is a complete non-factor for me because a heavy throw/warp bomb are much better choices for a pulled target than bullets. Barrier's aren't much of a factor either because of smg's passive shield piercing upgrade(and by the time you fight collector's you probably have it researched).

If I were to max a bonus power and only use rank 1 of pull, I'd probably agree with you on warp over AP. I hate starting a NG+ with rank 1 pull though. With no biotic cooldown/duration bonus it doesn't always last long enough to combo your warp with early on, and eary on is when the game is the hardest for a NG+.

AP ammo is the best bang for your buck if you're only going to drop 1 point in a bonus power imo.


I'm currently playing a sentinel NG+ on insanity, and I too have 1 pt left for the bonus. I've been going back and forth between AP and warp ammo. Even though 1pt AP ammo does more damage, I often find myself taking advantage of warp + warp ammo, specially with armor. Mattock + heavy warp + 1pt warp ammo took down the armor of a YMIR in about 1 clip. The damage is good enough vs. shielded enemies that I've been thinking about getting rid of overload all together and just max warp ammo, or get cryo blast. I haven't gotten to husks yet, so maybe I'll see how AP ammo works then.

#15
VAShield

VAShield
  • Members
  • 6 messages

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Nice guide Simbacca, but I like to add a thing or two:

Incediary Ammo is (also) great against Vorch and Krogan (Bloodpack) because it stops their health regen.

Incediary Ammo (lvl 4 Inferno Ammo) can set nearby protected enemies on fire (panick) - radius 3 m.

Disrupter Ammo can make Geth (or synthetics) explode, which is nice as long as you keep your distance, I prefer Cryo Ammo when fighting Geth with a SG - Cryo Ammo is also a good alternative for Disruptor Ammo when playing Vanguard (fighting Geth) because you don't need Zaeed thus the use of another squadmate (Miranda or Garrus; with Overload) becomes available.

Warp Ammo is awesome on Collector missions though Incediary Ammo is better due to its crowd controlling ability, but Sentinels, Adepts, Engineers and Infiltrators (not bringing Jacob or Grunt with squad IA) can use Warp Ammo as their bonus power effectively on these missions. If I remember it right I needed Warp Ammo (lvl 2) on my Infiltrator to 1S/1K Collector drones at Horizon using Mantis.

Nice job with the AP Ammo - there're still people using it on their Soldier or Vanguard - a waste. I also like what you have written about Cryo Ammo. It's my favorite Ammo, doesn't look like much on the drawing board, but it's very effective (like you've explained) on Insanity (too bad there're no squadies you can bring with the squad CA :crying: ). Cryo Ammo offers great CC abilities plus you can shatter enemies, love it!



Hmmmm.... I think the issue with Inferno ammo and Tungsten ammo for a soldier is that the full damage of inferno is done over 3 seconds rather than the instant damage of tungsten ammo...i might be wrong about this but anecdotely, tungsten rounds seem to work better on the revenant especially

#16
Bozorgmehr

Bozorgmehr
  • Members
  • 2 321 messages

VAShield wrote...

Hmmmm.... I think the issue with Inferno ammo and Tungsten ammo for a soldier is that the full damage of inferno is done over 3 seconds rather than the instant damage of tungsten ammo...i might be wrong about this but anecdotely, tungsten rounds seem to work better on the revenant especially


Incediary Ammo does instant damage to armor just like AP Ammo, against health it does 'normal' damage instantly and another % over 3 seconds + the panic effect. Incediary Ammo is superior to AP pretty much all the way - only against non-organics the panic effect is useless.

When looking at the description you might think AP does a little more damage (an extra 10 % Tungsten vs Inferno), but in reality the difference (when you have a couple of weapon upgrades) is somewhere between 1-3 %. You won't notice the difference at all. Here's an example

Every class having access to Incediary Ammo or when bringing Grunt or Jacob to provide the squad version should not waste the bonus power on AP ammo. If you have to chose between Warp and AP ammo, Warp is always a better pick except during the IFF mission.

#17
VAShield

VAShield
  • Members
  • 6 messages

Bozorgmehr wrote...

VAShield wrote...

Hmmmm.... I think the issue with Inferno ammo and Tungsten ammo for a soldier is that the full damage of inferno is done over 3 seconds rather than the instant damage of tungsten ammo...i might be wrong about this but anecdotely, tungsten rounds seem to work better on the revenant especially


Incediary Ammo does instant damage to armor just like AP Ammo, against health it does 'normal' damage instantly and another % over 3 seconds + the panic effect. Incediary Ammo is superior to AP pretty much all the way - only against non-organics the panic effect is useless.

When looking at the description you might think AP does a little more damage (an extra 10 % Tungsten vs Inferno), but in reality the difference (when you have a couple of weapon upgrades) is somewhere between 1-3 %. You won't notice the difference at all. Here's an example

Every class having access to Incediary Ammo or when bringing Grunt or Jacob to provide the squad version should not waste the bonus power on AP ammo. If you have to chose between Warp and AP ammo, Warp is always a better pick except during the IFF mission.



Hmmmm okay sounds good, ill test this out again against a helicopter to make sure, i do like the fire effect so ive been looking for a reason to switch back to inferno rounds lol...i usually go with either ap or warp ammo because almost any of the other bonus powers seem to interfere with AR spamming

#18
Bozorgmehr

Bozorgmehr
  • Members
  • 2 321 messages
@ VAShield; After you've research 3 tech upgrades, Geth Shield Boost can be very useful when Soldiering. Using it before a fight gives a massive shield boost plus a 10% dmg bonus (Improved GSB) - you never have to look back, just spam ARs. As long as your shield stays up, GSB will be in effect (60 s (or 1.12 m with the +20 % Duration Tech Upgrade) plus it can be a lifesaver coz it works (instantly) when medkits don't.

#19
Arhka

Arhka
  • Members
  • 842 messages
I thought for GSB you had to use your omni-tool?

#20
Alamar2078

Alamar2078
  • Members
  • 2 618 messages

Bozorgmehr wrote...

VAShield wrote...

Hmmmm.... I think the issue with Inferno ammo and Tungsten ammo for a soldier is that the full damage of inferno is done over 3 seconds rather than the instant damage of tungsten ammo...i might be wrong about this but anecdotely, tungsten rounds seem to work better on the revenant especially


Incediary Ammo does instant damage to armor just like AP Ammo, against health it does 'normal' damage instantly and another % over 3 seconds + the panic effect. Incediary Ammo is superior to AP pretty much all the way - only against non-organics the panic effect is useless.

When looking at the description you might think AP does a little more damage (an extra 10 % Tungsten vs Inferno), but in reality the difference (when you have a couple of weapon upgrades) is somewhere between 1-3 %. You won't notice the difference at all. Here's an example

Every class having access to Incediary Ammo or when bringing Grunt or Jacob to provide the squad version should not waste the bonus power on AP ammo. If you have to chose between Warp and AP ammo, Warp is always a better pick except during the IFF mission.



Agreed.   Early in a NG+ game AP is quite handy at places like Freedom's Progress.   AP is also handy in a new game.   As he posted though the further in the game you go the less AP will do for you.  Mid or Late game you can find better bonus powers.

#21
termokanden

termokanden
  • Members
  • 5 818 messages
I don't think it's fair to call Tungsten Ammo a waste for soldiers. It deals more damage than Inferno Ammo. Not much, but a bit. Furthermore, the damage is never a dot, even on health.

You pay for the panic effect by doing less damage per shot and by doing less damage to synthetics. The latter problem is largely negated by Disruptor Ammo, but you can't get around the fact that you deal less damage.

Thus it all boils down to how much you think you need the panic effect. I personally doubt it would help me much on Insanity, considering it's all about blasting through shields, barriers and armor. Any enemies that are down to only health are pretty much dead anyway. All in all, Tungsten and Inferno serve the same purpose about equally well.

There is, however, the possibility of evolving one ammo power to its group variant and taking the other and Disruptor for yourself. This is my reason for picking AP ammo as a bonus power.

I would have chosen Warp Ammo if I considered barriers a big problem. The truth is though that armor is all over the place and relatively few enemies use barriers. For those that do, have Miranda use Warp. Both Inferno and Tungsten are superior to Warp against armor.

One last point I would like to make is that for Insanity, Cryo Ammo is largely useless. It's about destroying their defenses, but no enemy is a real threat after that. Everything dies in very few shots after being reduced to health. Maybe it's fun and useful on lower difficulties though.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 août 2010 - 01:13 .


#22
Bozorgmehr

Bozorgmehr
  • Members
  • 2 321 messages

termokanden wrote...

I don't think it's fair to call Tungsten Ammo a waste for soldiers. It deals more damage than Inferno Ammo. Not much, but a bit. Furthermore, the damage is never a dot, even on health.

You pay for the panic effect by doing less damage per shot and by doing less damage to synthetics. The latter problem is largely negated by Disruptor Ammo, but you can't get around the fact that you deal less damage.

Thus it all boils down to how much you think you need the panic effect. I personally doubt it would help me much on Insanity, considering it's all about blasting through shields, barriers and armor. Any enemies that are down to only health are pretty much dead anyway. All in all, Tungsten and Inferno serve the same purpose about equally well.

There is, however, the possibility of evolving one ammo power to its group variant and taking the other and Disruptor for yourself. This is my reason for picking AP ammo as a bonus power.

I would have chosen Warp Ammo if I considered barriers a big problem. The truth is though that armor is all over the place and relatively few enemies use barriers. For those that do, have Miranda use Warp. Both Inferno and Tungsten are superior to Warp against armor.

One last point I would like to make is that for Insanity, Cryo Ammo is largely useless. It's about destroying their defenses, but no enemy is a real threat after that. Everything dies in very few shots after being reduced to health. Maybe it's fun and useful on lower difficulties though.


There isn't a difference in damage between Incediary and AP ammo - nothing you can/will notice. It isn't exactly clear how the total ammount of damage is calculated, but no matter which formula you use the difference is 1-3 %.  Furthermore I only consider ammo powers useful if they provide the opportunity to kill with a single shot. To be able to do this; you need different ammo types against certain enemies (btw, you never need the lvl 4 version to do this)

Cryo Ammo is wonderful on Insanity - my favorite and arguably the best ammo power available. Just take a look at how I use it :  Cryo Ammo vs Geth

and how Cruc1al uses Cryo Ammo : Soldier in Dantius Tower

Cryo Ammo rules :devil:

#23
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

V0luS_R0cKs7aR
  • Members
  • 231 messages
"Arguably the best ammo available" is highly dependent on Shepherd's class and the player's playstyle. For me and my o-s/o-k Infiltrator, I just equip-and-forget my Widow with Warp.



I will come out and say that on Insanity, I personally found Squad Cryo ammo the most useful squad ammo power. Except maybe against Geth...then I'd probably go with Squad Disruptor, although it's not good enough to make me re-spec my Infiltrator (I usually run with Level 2 Disruptor and Level 4 Squad Cryo).

#24
RGFrog

RGFrog
  • Members
  • 2 011 messages
Simbacca, it might be worth it to note that in the case of Incendiary/inferno ammo, fire damage over time stacks with each hit.

There really is no 'best' ammo. However, there is a worst: Shredda.

I thought it might be good to take Thane with max shredder and his bonus damages. Apply it to the automatic and let him go to town on the husks on the IFF mission. Wow, it's even useless there at normal when there's no armor to deal with :(

#25
Alamar2078

Alamar2078
  • Members
  • 2 618 messages
I guess that I'll never really be a fan of Squad Cryo so we can agree to disagree. I prefer powers that let my squad break down defenses [in addition to their own powers]. Once a target is defenseless instead of freezing them I'd just as soon do a concussion blast, push, pull, shockwave, slam, neural shock, panic them with incindiary ammo, etc Fortunately Insanity difficulty is "easy enough" that even if you don't have an optimal build as long as you have a plan of some sort you can usually make things work.



Note: I can see Cryo being useful for CQC builds but aside from Vanguard I don't do too much CQC as a rule of thumb.